need advice

[israelirealities]

Today, someone who runs a professional Mid East Blog from the USA emailed me his post about Judith Miller and NYT. His post was basically calling for the publisher, Sulzberger (sp ?) to retire himself although he is the owner, because of the entire affair. He mentioned there that Judith Miller is jewish. Also, another blogger, an ISraeli located in LA sent me his post a few days ago, saying that LIbby is Jewish too. Along these posts, there were backtalks making the connection between their religion and their part in the iraq WMD scam. Since I am back in ISrael, for the last year I am reading Israeli press. THis had no mention here and I did not know both were Jewish, and it has changed my perception of things, so it must be an important bit of information, for ISraelis at least. Basically, the whole scandal going on now in DC, with the investigations and all, is kind of absent or pushed to the boring inner pages that nobody really reads.<br>Today, Haaretz published the resignation letter by Miller, with a very brief explanation of the context, as if this has to do "with someone else" not Israel at all, or Jewish issues. Someone in the backtalks, who wrote from the USA, was protesting Haaretz's lack of in depth coverage of this affair and others related information. <br>Does anyone have a "take" on why Israeli press has an interest in keeping very low key on this ? I fail to understand the reasons, and it seems not coincidental to me. I keep writing about these issues in my blog, get a lot of readership, but that's it. The issue seems to be kind of "underground". First I thought it is due to the general difficulty of anyone who is not American, to even read and remember the names of all those people over there. But now I am not sure this is the reason. Cause, for instance the French riots had a very deep and noticeable coverage here. (yes, I know, it has to do with Moslems, but still...). <br>I feel strange about all this. ANy take ? <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[anotherdrew]

probably because their religion doesn't matter, what matters is their acts. So it's pointless to mention, like saying Powell or is black, it's just irrelevant from a news reporting standpoint.<br><br>That's my guess. Anyway, the whole neocon-jewish thing is pointless, their policies are wrong and ill-conceived, that's the case to make. "connecting" them to right-wing Israeli policy just alienates the reader. The global right-wing WANTS this connection made so they can point to anti-neocon people and say they're just being anti-Semitic. <p></p><i></i>

[israelirealities]

Thanks, another<br>Its true, but usually Israeli press is very parochial in the sense of mentioning the JEwish religion of anyone in the world, incuding the janitor who found the bodies in a murder scene in Micronesia (and whether he has cousins in Israel who can comment in an interview how they remember them as kids)... I do feel there is a heavy kind of silence, and I can understand why it's 'so called' irrelevant in the USA< but we are not there, we are here. The issue will come up this way or the other, especially the ISraeli connection to the Iraq war (that's alreardy coming up), I just wonder aloud, why the <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Israeli press</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> plays along...<br>And basically, even if your explanation is correct, namely that this is tactic by neo cons to gag opposition in a devious way, this IS worth saying, and what is the Israeli position on that, if at all. I feel this is not the whole story. <br> <p></p><i></i>

[israelirealities]

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArt.jhtml?contrassID=1&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&itemNo=644291">www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/...mNo=644291</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>i am adding the link, although this is in Hebrew, some of the backtalks are in english, you can get the impression a bit. <p></p><i></i>

[OnoI812]

IR- surely you've heard the allegation that Judith Miller sat in on an interogation of a US citizen done by the israeli army?<br><br>I read that on DU a couple weeks ago...Id have to go back and find it.<br><br>There was also the allegation she was leading around th US teams in the search for WMD in IRaq....and then there's this...<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://dailykos.com/story/2005/7/8/16033/61733">dailykos.com/story/2005/7/8/16033/61733</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>

[starroute]

This is the elephant in the living room that everyone carefully walks around and nobody wants to acknowledge. The unfortunate result is that only the outright anti-Semites are making an issue of it and the whole topic gets far nastier and more conspiratorial as a result.<br><br>What's not clear is whether the Neocons are exploiting Israel as a tool of American Empire or betraying America for the sake of Israel -- or, most likely, screwing over both in the name of their free-market ideology. Whichever the case, it's likely to end badly for everyone concerned.<br><br>It isn't clear to me from your post how much you do or don't know about the Neocons. You might check out Meyrav Wurmser, whose husband David Wurmser is deeply involved in the Plame leak:<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/wurmser_m/wurmser-m.php">rightweb.irc-online.org/i...mser-m.php</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Douglas Feith is another good starting point:<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/wiki.phtml?title=Douglas_Feith">www.sourcewatch.org/wiki....glas_Feith</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>And so is JINSA:<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/jinsa.php">rightweb.irc-online.org/org/jinsa.php</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020902/vest">www.thenation.com/doc/20020902/vest</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Those links should offer some suggestions as to why the Israeli press might not want to go into this.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=starroute>starroute</A> at: 11/11/05 11:11 am<br></i>

[israelirealities]

thank you both for the very interesting links. no, had not idea.<br>Is douglas feith Jewish ? and Cheney ? <br>this meirav type seems like a big trouble type in terms of venom spreading. (maybe she married her husband to gain access) Is judith miller married, if so, who ?<br>Thanks, I am sorry for ignorance, ou can imagine the level of "what you don't know will not hurt them" is here.<br> elephant in the store<br>I can imagine why this is all Bloggosphere stuff, and I always think that whispers are worse than outspoken words. I am slowly getting the gist. Will it be too much to ask for help in compiling a little "glossary" for the average israeli reader. you started it here, but more along those lines. like who is jewish and who is married to whom etc...I will try to figure it out and then translate to Hebrew.<br>(please, no disinfo/unfounded rumors...i am relying on you here).I would very much like to know the story about the interrogation by the Israeli Army story, if you have name of Israeli officers, better. We are being duped here in ISrael, can tell you that for sure. <br>--------<br>Side note on Haaretz, it is a good fine high level press, but rest assure it is also under attempts to millerize it, plus censorship here has teeth. Also, the owner, a dove, and left wing very good guy, is also a capitalist to the bones, so in certain fields (social, economic and what ensues) he is as bad as the rest of the rich and famous. However, he has class, and education and is way above the level of the two mobsters who own the larger newspapers. <br> <br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[chiggerbit]

I can't speak for any possible agenda for the following sources, but these articles may give you a place to start:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/green02282004.html">www.counterpunch.org/green02282004.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html">www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/12/163445/117">www.dailykos.com/story/20...163445/117</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.middleeast.org/read.cgi?category=Magazine&num=679&standalone=0&month=3&year=2002&function=text">www.middleeast.org/read.c...ction=text</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://english.daralhayat.com/Spec/10-2004/Article-20041010-838064fa-c0a8-01ed-004f-35394dc965fe/story.html">english.daralhayat.com/Sp...story.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Neo-conservative">www.sourcewatch.org/index...nservative</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_described_as_neoconservatives">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...servatives</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 11/11/05 1:09 pm<br></i>

[israelirealities]

thanks chiggerbit, you are a walking archive...just one little question. Is every member of Jinsa Jewish ? <br><br>There is a lot I need to read. I just took a quick glance at all of them. Most of the articles point to the fact that this gang includes a lot of people who "have Israel's interests at heart" possibly overriding their American commitment. However, when I think about it this is exactly what I, and others like me, here feel, reversed. Namely, that Bibi Netanyahu, for instance and his pack of dual citizenship bloodhouds are "american stooges" who would sell the entire Israel, stock and barrell to their American rich buddies, even Evangelical ones. Same about several of aipac thugs. So, this is weird. I would say that there is a third group, of those ,..I dont know how to call them, but I know them when I see them, who just want to promote their agenda, not loyal to "israel", for sure. Not more than Perle is loyal to "the american public". I would generally say they are comprised of many Jews, but also right wing religious christians as well, Lebanes falangist etc.. I also think they benefit from the misconceptions and confusion around "whose interests are served". <br>Israelis would be more interested to know about Israelis involved and not so much those neocon Jews, who as I said, are not perceived here as "one of us". <br>MEMRI is an example of this group, and they are all over, sending links and claiming they are doing a "neutral service"..<br>I have one of them attacking me always on backtalks under the nick name Elisha, who also says he is dual citizenship. <br>his manner of writing is like talking to a pitbull and mostly they shift the discussion always to bashing arabs and moslems, no matter what the subject of the discussion is.<br>I am only asking myself how these people prepared themselves to waht is happening now ? they must have given it some thought. or what ? <p></p><i></i>

[starroute]

For example, former CIA director James Woolsey is not Jewish:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.factsandlogic.org/outstanding_woolsey.html">www.factsandlogic.org/out...olsey.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>We Are All Jews<br>by R. James Woolsey<br>September 29, 2003<br><br>I sometimes get asked these days if I'm Jewish — it's my neoconish views on defense and foreign affairs, I suppose. For a while I would just say, "No, Presbyterian,' but I've started saying instead, 'Well, I anchor the Presbyterian wing of JINSA (the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.jinsa.org/home/home.html">www.jinsa.org/home/home.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> )."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>John Bolton, a former member of the JINSA board of directors, is also not Jewish. However, he and Woolsey are the rare exceptions.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[israelirealities]

Jinsa - it looks like a council of terrorists sponsoring a military dictatorship in Israel, to be conbined with the US military, and steered conveniently by members, their buddies and families. Its a club. Mostly for men.<br>The names also include a lot of non Jewish generals from your army, cia and such like not very appealing lot. <br>It was disturbing to see they have many connections to law enforcement. That's always bad news. (military don't like the law, so now they don't abolish it they buy it). <br>I just fail to see what is "jewish" about this organization, they actually meant an organization <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>for</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">some Jews</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->, who claim to represent something more than their own pockets. Annoying. <br><br>===== <br><br>Well, I will dig into this, and compile something for my blog . Something like a "map" for the sources of corruption. Or "who is pulling the strings"...or "don't bother going to the election ballot, email you patron in JINSA". <br><br>=====<br> <p></p><i></i>

[starroute]

I don't know the details offhand -- but what I understand is that Israel has been heavily involved in arms dealing for decades and has often been used as an intermediary by the US (for example, in Iran-Contra).<br><br>Your pointing out that many non-Jewish generals are on the board of JINSA also makes clear something I hadn't quite realized before -- that JINSA is heavily tied in to the military-industrial complex. (That is, the cluster of military contractors, former officers, lobbyists, and certain senators who make sure that the flow of US government money for arms is ample and uninterrupted.)<br><br>As you already know, this isn't really a Jewish issue or an Israeli issue, but an issue of the US defense establishment. It's just too damn bad that Israel is caught up in it.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[israelirealities]

Thanks star. You can look up the Jinsa names in the website.<br>Oh, i know it is the arms deals, but what happened is that we became an arms dealership here. Most of the politicians are corrupt generals who make millions from it. It is a cancerous situation, in fact I don't see how it can ever change, its very deep and wide. I am of course less concerned with the USA, but it appears that those organizations are serving as pimps, and marketting ISrael in its entirety as one would market a military product. even the pictures they put there, the visuals are without a human presence. hellicopters, the flag, sky...this is Israel...the people are gone. From my point of view the Jews/ISraelis who sit on those very important power taps, are criminals of first degree and traitors as well. They cooperate gladly in this "sale". So, when I think about the possibility of them being used by the rumsfelds, I cannot excuse them. LIbby, for instance looks like he was set up good, and others like him, because he will come out the Jew, the <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>perver</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->t the liar and the traitor. And you know what ? it serves him right ! From what I know of what these people were up to, in terms of etiquette, they are scum, along with their Israeli counterparts, which is mainly Mossad et al, I cant' differentiate the various departments, but there are more than MOssad, Malmab (the new Lakam) involved and SIbat, and of course the IAI, IMI complexes of military manufacturers and exporters. They go along even when it means harming Israelis, as long as it is not them, they don't give a hoot. <br>Well, I am angry tonight. <p></p><i></i>

[eric144]

IR<br><br>There is a body of opinion that it's the Jews in the USA that are runuing American foreign policy through American traitors like Cheney and Rumsfeld, not the Jews who are being used.<br><br>People like Xymphora <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/11/who-died-and-who-didnt-in-jordan.html">xymphora.blogspot.com/200...ordan.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>and<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://whatreallyhappened.com/">whatreallyhappened.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Are these people anti-semitic, I don't know. <p></p><i></i>

[israelirealities]

i just read the reports on Miller and the Hammas interrogation. And <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>fitzgerald</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> is there too. weird stuff it IS, and the "security clearance" she received...this is really like a movie script, un believable. <br> <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Eric</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->..I sure don't want to get into that, let's stick to the problems at hand. I'll be utterly sincere with you, I don't care what the answer is (who is ruling who, I don't like both the US rumsfeld types and the Jews/israelis who associate with them). As far as I am concerned, the JEws rule the universe, how does that change MY situation ? I don't get any shares of the cake, if there is one at all, I get fucked by those who rule my life, and I want to understand a bit more of the specifics. After I learn all I need to know, maybe I'll have an opinion on the essentialist aspect of being Jewish. Right now I am not in the mood for it. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>