need advice

[eric144]

IR<br><br>Most of your previous post did address that issue by portraying the Jews as scapegoats, puppets and victims. I begged to differ. <p></p><i></i>

[chiggerbit]

It's all about the core right-wingers, whether American or Israeli. They may spout words like "democracy" and "freedom", but it's about their power to make obscene profits. They like to all it "capitalism" and equate it with democracy, but it is moral relativism. It is immorality all dressed up in pretty words. And they have no problems with using each other or anyone else for as long as it works. <p></p><i></i>

[starroute]

A thousand years ago, some of the more affluent Jews in Europe discovered that the best way to survive was by whoring out to the local aristocrats. If you loaned them enough money to support their wars and vices, they would protect you from the pogroms that afllicted the less fortunate. It was never more than a small minority that was able to afford this option, but for that minority it worked very well -- and so the pattern has persisted.<br><br>But who was really calling the shots? Was it the Jewish money-lenders who might seem to have a certain amount of leverage over their aristocratic clients? Or was it the aristocrats, who ultimately had the power to cancel the debts and expel the Jews from the kingdom at any time -- but not before calling them in for a date at the local torture chamber to extract whatever else they could in the process?<br><br>It really bums me that American Jews should still be whoring out to the likes of Bush and Cheney -- or that Israel should be whoring out to the United States. But never make any mistake as to where the real power lies.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[eric144]

Very true except<br><br>"But never make any mistake as to where the real power lies."<br><br>Today power is money and vice versa. Those with the money call the shots.<br><br>Here is a good example.<br><br>Murdoch becomes American<br><br>"On 4 September 1985 Murdoch was 'very proud and grateful to become an American'. He did not attempt much of the high-octane rhetoric produced for Australian circumstances: perhaps it would have been too obviously absurd. But a rather unobvious aspect of the Fox deal was that it required Murdoch to remain very Australian in certain<br>financial and corporate senses. <br><br>The junk finance Milken provided for<br>Murdoch to meet the $2.7bn cost of Fox and other deals alongside it was far beyond the limit of what could have been raised by a similar company entirely subject to US accounting rules. That would have been about $175 million. Why all this complexity? If Fox was such good business, could not Newscorp have raised normal equity rather than<br>junk?<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://media.guardian.co.uk/rupertmurdoch/story/0,11136,1028288,00.html">media.guardian.co.uk/rupe...88,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br><br>London Telegraph<br>July 20, 1997<br><br>Federal authorities in the US are investigating the MCI deal with News Corp for possible criminal breaches. A grand jury in New York is looking into the role Michael Milken (who was barred for life from the securities industry as part of his sentence) had in the 1995 deal where MCI agreed to invest $2 billion in Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.<br>The case revolves around the involvement of Michael Milken, the disgraced former junk bond king, and his role in the 1995 deal in which MCI agreed to invest up to $2 billion in News Corp in return for a 13.5 per cent stake.<br><br>Milken pleaded guilty in 1990 to six felony charges and served two years in prison. He also paid more than $1 billion in fines and restitution. Under the terms of his settlement decree with the Securities and Exchange Commission he was banned for life from participating in securities transactions.<br><br>The decree barred him from "association with any broker, dealer, investment advisor, investment company or municipal securities dealer".<br><br>Milken has long been close to both Murdoch and the top brass at MCI, whose early expansion was substantially funded by junk bonds. The SEC has already been investigating whether his role as a consultant in the News Corp deal constituted participation in the securities business. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[starroute]

What this thread has made extremely clear to me is that things are essentially no different today than they were in the Middle Ages.<br><br>The aristocrats -- the old elite families, the Skull and Bones types -- have the real ultimate power. They set the agenda, they call the shots, and they will do anything -- <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>anything</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> -- to maintain that.<br><br>The people with money are useful to the elite when they need to arrange some deal that personal influence alone can't swing. But they're also disposable. Many of those moneyed people are Jews -- but every Jew knows in their heart that when the chips are down, they're still an outsider. Still disposable.<br><br>That's one of the main reasons Israel was founded -- to have a place where Jews could finally be the insiders. But, surprise, surprise, Israel itself remains an outsider nation. Still called upon to do the jobs the elite won't dirty its hands with. Still disposable.<br><br>There's one important piece I left out of my original post about the Jews and the aristocrats. The aristocrats might protect the Jews from the peasants when everything was going well. But when times got hard and the peasants showed signs of being ready to blame their masters, the Jews also made a highly convenient scapegoat. At that point, the aristocrat might either throw them to the wolves or protect them one more time, rubbing in the lesson of how dependent they were on him for their safety. Either way, the aristocrat won and the Jews remained disposable.<br><br>And that's also no different than it's ever been.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[eric144]

Yes it is. <br><br>You can't be elected to any national office in the USA without vast amounts of money.<br><br><br>"The aristocrats might protect the Jews from the peasants "<br><br>Are you saying that absolutely everybody is anti-semitic and has an overwhelming desire to murder any jew within reach at a moment's notice ?<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[banned]

...doesn't anybody want to talk about the Swiss who are descended from the Lombards, who are my ancestors?<br><br>These are sneaky people with funny noses who are known to put secret NWO messages in cuckoo clocks and lure non-Swiss children with chocolate.<br><br>And who knows what all else.<br><br>Dangerous people, even moreso because NO ONE SUSPECTS THEM.<br><br>Even after the discovery (in a cuckoo clock, where else) of the "Protocols of the Elders of St. Gallen" which details how to make fondue out of non-Swiss children lured with chocolate.<br><br>You folks are missing an opportunity to be on the ground floor of an expose to end all exposes. Just remember you read it first. <br><br>Oh, and get your copy NOW of the "Swiss Miss Cocoa Code". You probably don't know that those little artificial marshmallows spell out words in your hot chocolate that refer to how Jesus actually faked his death and moved to Ticino to run a dairy, and painstakingly carved the TRUE story of Christianity into wheels of Swiss cheese. Unfortunately, one of his disciples had a serious weight problem, ate all the wheels, and died of acute constipation, but the legend has lingered on in the bloodlines of the Mysterious Cheesemakers of Lugano(TM).<br><br>Or, you could wait for the movie with Tom Cruise as Jesus, Katie Holmes as Magdalene, and Dom DeLuise as the Disciple St. Porcius aka Porky the Constipated. <p></p><i></i>

[eric144]

The Swiss are up there with the Jews for being a centre of global financial manipulation.<br><br>You should have chosen the Belgians - no they have the EU, how about the Scots - no evil heart of freemasonry.<br><br>It's only one or two Jews, Swiss and Scots as we all know very well. <p></p><i></i>

[banned]

Because it's *always* the ones you never suspect.<br><br>Have you ever even met an Andorran? Of course not. Because they're all Illuminati and they they sit around and read by the light of their own Illumination. <p></p><i></i>

[israelirealities]

totally with you on the analysis of the "role of the Jews" in European diaspora. It is precisely what I said, that Israel did not achieve the change ZIonism was promising, namely, to "normalize" relations with the European rulers. That's one way of looking at it. The other, is that we, our nation, have been <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>consistently failing to hold our leadership accountable or</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> elect a better, less opportunistic leadership, during those times, from the middle ages till now. A lot depends on how ISrael, the State will respond to the emerging situation. SO far, bad failure, but many people are already fed up, and now there is a law, there is a state, and there is a seemingly democratic structure. I would like to see some of those criminals held accountable, I think it will make a huge difference. (fantasies ? maybe...:-)). <br>In addition, people tell me that this problem did not manifest this way in non European diaspora. (that's why i brought some of the conflict between the Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews, latter claiming they should lead ISrael for that reason, too). <br> <p></p><i></i>

[israelirealities]

<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>I don't have my Jewish emoticon working, the one with the long nose and dollar signs... <p></p><i></i>

[Homeless Halo]

Lots of aristocracy in European middle ages began the process of "buying" affluent Jewry. "Christians" weren't allowed to loan money with interest, so as to avoid this tangle, many Euros began dealing with Jews who were not so privileged.<br><br>As far as the "Swiss" banking Cabals go, they are inextricably intertwined with all this nonsense. As are the various branches of European Illuminism and Aristocracy. Most of this began with the Templar Knights and their interbreeding with the remnants of the ole Jewish ruling clans. They began a long line of interconnectedness between European and Jewish banking, with the interbred families running the majority of the operations. As the ban on interest was eventually lifted, the Euros' saw less need for the Jews, and the majority of their "competition" in europe was ousted, via ole Uncle Adolf, leaving only the "Swiss" backed cabals holding nearly ALL the purse strings.<br><br>It also has to be taken into account, when trying to understand the Neo-Con/Euro-Aristocrat/Jewish Elitism connections, that these banking cabals were breeding with those who were the "rightful" heirs to a then, non-existant Jewish throne. This is established firmly.<br><br>The rest of the "bloodlines" stuff is up for grabs, depending on the veracity of the Cathartic view of Christianity and its authenticity, if any. This could only be "proven" one way or another with increased access to the Vatican vaults and the documentations therein. What matters more though, is that a LOT of these Euros, now firmly interbred with "royal" Jewish blood, also believe that they have "Christ" blood in them, which given their "christian" background, especially during the superstitious middle ages, goes a long way towards explaining their combination of hatred/love for the Jews in general and their dealings with powerful Jews against the majority.<br><br>I have no time to debate the "bloodline" meme, as I find it mostly irrelevant. I should merely mention that despite debunking of modern organizations, this idea has existed among European Aristocracy/Royalty for at least 7 or 8 hundred years(and in religious history for at least 1800), and likely has a profound influence on their practices with Jewry in general.<br><br>That is, even the WASPs in this arena, firmly believe that the rule of "the promised land" is THEIRS by right, and that the average Jews are their SUBJECTS.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[israelirealities]

frustrating it is for me, that except chiggerbit, who responds with relation to reality, most of these threads seem to be dwindeling into a twilight zone of witchcraft and bloodlines. Is that a spell ? should someone just go "snap out" and turn on the light ? I was talking about very concrete power relations and a general "blackout" of information in Israeli press with regards to the Miller/Libby affair. It is one of the mechanisms that allow the corruption to flourish and the garbage to fill the void of information. The discussion was on this affair and what we are not told here in ISrael, yet are assigned that knowledge by proxy (by Americans, for once). Not only knowledge, we (I, too) are held vicariously accountable and profitting from these scams. The "hex", of the time tunnel going from present day major league CRIMES to Middle Age gothic cartoon movies, is not helping. It is part of the camouflage. WHile I do believe that some of those groups in power also excercise a host of "black magic techniques and rituals and belief systems", there is also a simple, down to earth, POLITICAL dynamics at hand. I don't mind the talk about the Satan and bloodlines, I learn a lot from it, but to a certain point, if you drown in it, you lose my attention. <p></p><i></i>

[Homeless Halo]

Feel free to disregard any of my comments that you so choose, they were freely offered and well meant.<br><br>I don't think in terms of "jews" so I can't give you a list of evil "jews". Sorry. <p></p><i></i>

[israelirealities]

oh no, thanks for any information. Thing is that from my perspective, looking for the bad jews, is as for you, looking for the bad americans. its not a mystical quest for identity, rather something I personally need to understand. I am not less implicated in this war, as many other iSraelis who were taken for a ride...regard it as being raped and wanting to take a very long shower, then going to file a complaint with the police to look for the rapist whose face was disguised under a big hood. Its not that classic antisemitism and meme is not important, but that's already part of the therapy.<br> <p></p><i></i>