genocide and moral complicity in Israel

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genocide and moral complicity in Israel

Postby darkbeforedawn » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:56 am

Friday, September 01, 2006<br>The personal moral culpability of the Israeli people<br>Amira Hass writes about the see-no-evil attitude of the average Israeli. It is difficult to avoid the comparison with the German people during the Nazi period (I’m still not using the H-word except to refer to what is going on today), but the comparison is obscene. Germans lived during a period of almost total press censorship, and in a violent police state where even asking questions might result in death. It is fair to say that many if not most Germans really were unaware of the details of what was going on, although it is more difficult to excuse them for being unaware that something evil was happening. On the other hand, Israelis are completely aware of every detail of what the state of Israel is doing in their name, and their complete silence is proof of complicity.<br><br>The usual suspects will immediately jump in to claim that Israel can’t be compared to Nazi Germany. Really? The IDF dropped 90% of the cluster bombs that now litter Lebanon during the last 72 hours of the Israeli attack, at a time when the Israeli government knew that a ceasefire was imminent. These bombs were thus clearly intended to be left for Lebanese civilians. The Nazis did some awful stuff, but it is completely fair to day they did no worse than this. Israeli misuse of cluster bombs was so notorious that the State Department actually delayed sending (or here) the latest American model of cluster bomb to Israel for fear that it would be used against civilians. The IDF apparently – there is some question whether these bombs were delivered anyway – had to make do with the American cluster bombs it already had on hand. Given the immense power of the Lobby, as again conclusively demonstrated in the last month, somebody in the State Department has large ones. To turn down an Israeli request for arms is almost unheard of, the last time being as a result of Israeli misuse of cluster bombs against civilians in Lebanon in 1982. Needless to say, the average Israeli, not to mention the average North American Jew, will simply dismiss such complaints as anti-Semitism.<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://xymphora.blogspot.com/">xymphora.blogspot.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=darkbeforedawn>darkbeforedawn</A> at: 9/1/06 9:58 am<br></i>
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Re: genocide and moral complicity in Israel

Postby havanagilla » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:17 pm

no need to resort to comparisons, its bad as it is. the comparissons to nazis serve the hardliners in israel. might feel good for a moment to do that, but certainly doesn't help anyone.<br><br>more practical is to nail israel for gross human rights violations against its own jewish citizens, pulls the rug under the reasoning of "we are doing those bad things to protect the jews who were persecuted by YOU". however, it is quite useless to reiterate..<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: genocide and moral complicity in Israel

Postby darkbeforedawn » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:23 pm

Sorry Hava, I posted this because so many Jews HERE just don't get it. That was my REAL point. They are the ones that aren't facing what all their money has bought for Israel....a war machine almost as disgusting as our own. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: genocide and moral complicity in Israel

Postby havanagilla » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:41 pm

its probably less naive, as usual. they are probably getting it, wanting it, and hoping it goes on, as long as they don't pay with their reputation and bodies. <br>today's news, apparently, a local tycoon (lev levayev, former russian) has bought the right to build and run the first PRIVATE prison in Israel. and who are his partners ? a large US corp, and the contract allows later that a <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>foreign</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> gov shall receive/buy the rights and in fact, the entire prison can be owned and run by a foreign gov. (guess who ran out of prisoners). <br> <br>These are usualy Jewish american businessmen who "broker" those cattle sellouts. no business like trafficking in fellow jews business. High court of justice yesterday ordered a 6 months recess in the proceedings to allow the legislature to interfere with a little "hint" that a revision is in place, otherwise the court might reverse the entire authorization for the gov to privatise the power to incarcerate. <br><br>If you could turn your critique to the financiers in the USA, it would be more useful than the usual attack on Israel (simply because Israel has a very thick skin to criticism of this sort, and has turned it to a boomerang, namely, each such article reinforces the general paranoia from dem antisemites who hate us anyway). <br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: genocide and moral complicity in Israel

Postby starroute » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:18 pm

hava, with all due respect, I believe the only way to pry US support away from Israel is to convince American Jews that Israel has become morally bankrupt. I know that's harsh, but it's the only way I can see to get the message through.<br><br>I'm reminded, by the way, that we're quickly coming up on the 50th anniversary of the Suez Crisis -- which was the first point at which I started to wonder why so many of the adults around me seemed to think that what Israel was doing was a Good Thing, when even I as a nine-year-old could tell that it wasn't.<br><br>I found a few intriguing -- and disheartening -- pieces of information about the Suez Crisis when I went just now to check the exact date at Wikipedia:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>In 1952, officers in the Egyptian army overthrew the monarchy of King Farouk who had been a close ally of the British. Abandoning policies co-operative with European powers, the new government asserted an independent and Arab nationalist identity. This led to conflict with the European powers over the Suez Canal. . . .<br><br>Meanwhile, the so-called Gaza Strip - a part of the former British mandate, now occupied by Egypt - became a haven for masses of Palestinian refugees and a hotbed for guerilla activity against the fledgling Jewish state. In response, from 1953–1956 the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) launched a number of strikes. These attacks were assisted by the future prime minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon, who interrupted his studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem to become the military leader of the first special forces unit of the IDF: the elite Unit 101. This policy of reprisals was a major source of internal dispute between hawks, led by David Ben-Gurion, and doves, led by his successor for a short time, Moshe Sharett. It sometimes led to strong external criticism from the United Nations and even Israel's supporters.<br><br>The Gaza raid on 1955 February 28 marked yet another turning point in relations between the two enemies. In retaliation Egypt began to sponsor official Fedayeen and commando raids on Israel, sometimes through the territory of Jordan, which also officially opposed these raids, while still publicly discouraging Palestinian infiltration. . . .<br><br>On 1956 July 26, Egypt, under the leadership of President Gamal Abdel Nasser announced the nationalization of the Suez Canal Company, which operated the vital trade route to the east, and in which British banks and business held a 44% stake. . . .<br><br>The British Prime Minister of the time, Sir Anthony Eden, tried to persuade the British public of the need for war and so, perhaps in an attempt to recall World War II-era patriotism, he compared Nasser's nationalisation of the Suez Canal with the nationalism of Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler twenty years earlier. However, it is interesting to note that the very first comparisons between 1930s dictators and Nasser during the crisis was made by the opposition Labour leader, Hugh Gaitskell and the left-leaning tabloid newspaper, the Daily Mirror. Eden had been a staunch opponent of Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement and he claimed that a display of force was needed to prevent Nasser becoming another expansionist military threat. . . .<br><br>In the months that followed Egypt's nationalization of the canal company, with the support of the former managers of the company that operated the canal, Compagnie universelle du canal maritime de Suez, a secret meeting between Israel, France and Britain took place at Sèvres, outside Paris. Details on the Protocol of Sèvres only emerged years later, as records of the meeting were suppressed and destroyed. All parties agreed that Israel should invade and that Britain and France would subsequently intervene, instruct the Israeli and Egyptian armies to withdraw their forces to a distance of ten miles (16 km) from either side of the canal, and then place an Anglo-French intervention force in the Canal Zone around Port Said. It was to be called "Operation Musketeer".<br><br>On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula and made rapid progress towards the Canal Zone. . . . The United Kingdom and France began to bomb Egypt on October 31 to force the reopening of the canal with Operation Musketeer. Nasser responded by sinking all 40 ships then present in the canal, closing it to further shipping until early 1957. . . .<br><br>Thus, the Eisenhower administration forced a cease-fire on Britain and France, which it had previously told the Allies it would not do. Part of the pressure that the United States used against Britain was financial, as Eisenhower threatened to sell the United States reserves of the British pound and thereby precipitate a collapse of the British currency. After Saudi Arabia started an oil embargo against Britain and France, the U.S. refused to fill the gap, until Britain and France agreed to a rapid withdrawal. . . .<br><br>The British government and the pound thus both came under pressure. Eden was forced to resign and the invading forces withdrew in March 1957. Before the withdrawal, Lester Pearson, Canada's acting cabinet minister for external affairs, had gone to the United Nations and suggested creating a United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) in the Suez to "keep the borders at peace while a political settlement is being worked out." The United Nations eagerly accepted this suggestion, and the force was sent, greatly improving conditions in the area. Lester Pearson was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1957 for his efforts. The United Nations Peacekeeping Force was Lester Pearson's creation and he is considered the father of the modern concept "peacekeeping". . . .<br><br>The Crisis resulted in the resignation of the British Conservative Prime Minister, Sir Anthony Eden, and marked the completion of the shift in the global balance of power from traditional European powers to the United States and the Soviet Union and was a milestone in the decline of the British Empire. . . .<br><br>Eisenhower later admitted, after retiring from office, that the Suez Crisis was perhaps the biggest mistake he made in terms of foreign policy. Not only did he feel that the United States weakened two crucial European Cold War Allies but he created in Nasser a man capable of dominating the Arab world when Nasser was little liked let alone respected amongst other Arab countries.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>Have we really been playing out this same insane tape loop for 50 years? You'd think someone might have come up with a few new moves in that time. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: starrout, goodluck

Postby havanagilla » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:42 pm

if you think this is really the crux, go ahead, and perhaps you are even right. my sense of it, is that the complicity stretches. but perhaps politically it is the correct strategy, namely, placing enough counter pressure on the US jews, so that it outweighs the status quo. hasn't worked so far, but who knows, there might be some good surprises for a change. if people over there realize that unless the shape up, they will have to follow the bliss of Aliyah to milk and honey land, the picture will change. it has little to do with inner motivations, ideals, but with interests. so it might work out and it is actually not mutually exclusive with what i suggested, only complementary. the jewish community has to make its agenda clear. <br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Just a thought DBD...

Postby snowlion2 » Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:52 pm

But there's every possibility that the history books my grandchildren read might paint those of us who are current resident of the US in much the same way current texts paint residents of 1930's Germany, and the manner in which you suggest we should be looking at citizens of Israel.<br><br>And they'll be right. <p></p><i></i>
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One of these days........

Postby slimmouse » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:07 pm

<br> One of these days people are gonna get the deal here.<br><br> War is extremely profitable for THE GLOBAL ELITE.<br><br> The whole "israel" thing has been their feast. 60 Years of War, with more to come. Death for the indigenous population for sure. But no small amount of death suffering and psychological angst for the Jews of Israel too.<br><br> The people who control us could not give a flying fuck about the religion, colour or creed of us "useless eaters". They laugh at our religions. Isnt it time we took a leaf from their book and did the same ?<br><br> Or do we wish to remain as dumb as they percieve us and fall for this bullshit ?<br><br> The point at which we all get our heads around this simple fact will be the time these people really get a load in their underwear. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: One of these days........

Postby havanagilla » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:52 am

strange enough, i agree with all the posters on this thread.<br><br>a snapshop from life here, yesterday, on the way back from the beach, i stopped by the local cafe-bistro, and sat down for a while. another couple came by with a baby and so my son was trying to play with the baby and the parents were talking to him. After a while the guy there was trying to teach my son about tractors and trucks and then he started with tanks, i interfered saying we do not allow the subject of arms etc. this triggered an angry scoffing by the mother who said - because of "people like you " (that's me) we are going to be exterminated, and quoted the old "when they came for the communists...." lines. I lifted an eyebrow...but then i saw there's really no point to explain. so I said "i have a PTSD medical exemption from war and warspeak ", and so she firgured i am a widow or something from the war and softened up to me "oh, such a matter, oh that's something else, that's ok then". My son was embarassed throughout this discussion. we moved up to go (cause i finished me coffee) and she asked "are you leaving because of us ? because of the tanks we mentioned ?"....they were a bit uncomfortable.<br><br>I am raising my son without the presence of war, trying to namely, we don't discuss the word war, tanks, israel, enemies etc. i figure he will learn in time, but those early years are crucial for the formation of a worldview. that's cause i was conditioned to war very early on, by my environment. <br><br>--<br>aside from another thread, about scientoloy in israel. i watched them educate their kids to ridicule police. anyone knows anything about it ? i thought this was the only "cool" part in the conditioning of the kids to scientology (they also teach them about reincarnation at early age, demons etc.). <br><br>another day..<br> <p></p><i></i>
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