by AlicetheCurious » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:09 pm
DE, gee, thanks for letting me actually have dinner with my family, help my kids do homework, put them to bed, make their school lunches, hang out with my hubby for a couple of hours and then actually get some sleep... What do you think I am, a disembodied entity attached to my computer?<br><br>By the way, I prefer to get weekends off, too.<br><br>So. wordspeak said:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>...are you denying the whole history of U.S. funding and training of Islamic militants? Do you believe it was only done "to defeat the Soviets" and then ties were severed? How many examples do you need? And if you're not denying it then what are you saying here?<br><br>The CIA started the madrassas in Pakistan, and U.S. taxpayers payed for Islamic fundamentalist textbooks to be sent to Afghanistan. It shouldn't be a surprise that they support the fundamentalist movement; fundamentalist religion is key to controlling people. And Islam is the world's biggest religion. <br><br>You do realize that the U.S. funds Egypt nearly as much as it funds Israel? Not to mention the U.S.'s relationship with Saudi Arabia.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I agree with what you say, there. I think the evidence is pretty conclusive.<br><br>Where you and I part ways is with the rest of your post:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>You have an oversimplifies perception of what's going on in the Middle East, and it's the standard one in the American Left today, and that's not by mistake. It's very popular today to believe, especially in the 'net underground, to believe that Israel controls U.S. policy, when obviously it's the other way around.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>I would say that YOU have an absurdly simplistic perception of the "what's going on in the Middle East". Just because the US pours billions of dollars into repressive puppet regimes such as those who manage Saudi Arabia and Egypt on behalf of their American bosses, does not put them on a par with Israel. <br><br>Both the Egyptian and Saudi governments are kept in place to recycle US taxpayer 'aid' money by using it to buy useless and enormously overpriced weapons from American arms manufacturers, which are, of course, to be used against other Arab countries that step out of the US line, never, ever against Israel. This is the case, even when Israel shoots dead Egyptian troops doing their regular shifts on their side of the border and then claims that it was an "accident" against all the evidence. And then does it again.<br><br>Or when the Israeli army crossed into Egypt to kidnap some Egyptian teenagers who had gotten lost and wandered too close to the border, so that they could be exchanged for convicted Israeli spy Azzam Azzam. <br><br>Unlike Israel, who destroyed Lebanon and massacred thousands of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians in "retaliation" for the kidnapping of 3 Israeli soldiers, our "government" meekly accepted the Israeli apology for the dead Egyptian soldiers, and promptly handed over the spy in exchange for the Egyptian hostages.<br><br>Our 'governments' are also used by the US as 'trustees', keeping their people poor, ignorant and afraid, so that corporate interests can pursue their neo-con agenda by sucking up our national resources, creating a corporate heaven for multinational corporations in which a country's wealth is used to effectively subsidize their operations, they pay little or no taxes, they pollute at will, have access to a steady supply of cheap, oppressed labour, plus they have a captive market.<br><br>Another distinguishing characteristic of America's "allies" in the Middle East, is the signing of economic agreements that benefit Israel, while disregarding the almost unanimous public opposition to such deals. These include the QIZ agreement for textile-manufacturing maquiladora-style industrial zones that were set up in Egypt, taking advantage of cheap, non-union labour for government-connected Egyptian and Israeli businessmen, and at the same time forcing Egyptians to import garment components from Israel:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Since the QIZ agreement came into force there has been sharp increase in israeli exports to Egypt mainly Israeli inputs to the Egyptian textile industry. In 2004 israeli exports totaled US$29 millions and in 2005 exports was up 300% to US$93 million.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.port2port.com/Index.asp?ArticleID=1055&CategoryID=46&Year=2006&Month=9&Page=1">www.port2port.com/Index.a...amp;Page=1</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Of course, US$93 million is chump change to Israel -- much more important is the creeping control of one of Egypt's most important industries: the textile industry.<br><br>Egypt has also signed an outrageous deal to export its strategic gas resources to Israel at a fixed price for the next 20 years, via underwater pipelines built by an Egyptian-Israeli consortium, despite the furious opposition of most Egyptians:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>In a statement issued Thursday, Egyptian judges censured "the barbaric Israeli attacks on the Palestinian and Lebanese people." They also warned of American attempts "to rearrange the Middle East, based on the 'Greater Middle East' plan, via Israeli pride and American hegemony, in whose eyes the lives of hundreds of Arab children are not worth the wounds of one Israeli child."<br>...<br>The Egyptian judges called upon judges from around the world to do their duty and aid in imposing values of justice and equality between human beings.<br><br>The Egyptian union of professional associations, boasting seven million members, announced that they intend to hold a general, hour-long strike on Sunday, including all members of the union with the exception of emergency medical workers.<br><br>Granted, it will not be the first public condemnation of Israel in Egypt. The London-based al-Sharq al Wasat newspaper, reported that Egyptian lawyers conducted a general strike on Thursday against IDF operations in Lebanon.<br><br>....<br><br>The Egyptian reform movement, 'Kafia' (<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>actually, it's Kefaya! which means "Enough!</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>- Alice</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->), is also pressing on the Egyptian government. In the last presidential and parliament elections, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>the movement protested against the continued leadership of Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>This time, they focused their criticism on Israel and demanded a cessation of gas exports from Egypt to that country.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Newspapers also reported that popular anti-Israeli sentiment was growing, including among organizations, political movements and factions of the population that had previously not actively expressed such views.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286242,00.html">www.ynetnews.com/articles...42,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>I could go on and on about the many ways that Israel has pushed its tentacles into the Egyptian economy under the cover of the US "friendship" and American "investment", or using corrupt local front-men with friends in high places -- in agriculture, the cement and steel industries, etc., etc.<br><br>I'll be happy to provide more details about that later, if you're interested. <br><br>But how does all this relate to 'al-Qaeda' and "Islamo-fascist" movements?<br><br>Easy. All this injustice and oppression breed opposition. The Kefaya movement is a perfect example of a huge grassroots movement with enormous legitimacy and respect 'in the street'.<br><br>It is a secular coalition which demands that the government repeal the 'Emergency Law" that has nullified human rights in Egypt since Sadat was assassinated in 1981. It also demands that Egypt become a democracy, through constitutional reform, the establishment of a free, independent press, an independent judiciary, and the removal of all obstacles to forming political parties.<br><br>It's a liberal, progressive movement that prominently includes Christians, Muslims, Leftists, women's rights activists, human rights activists, professionals, workers, academics, journalists, you name it, all united in their demand for freedom.<br><br>It opposes the neo-con agenda in Egypt, the flagrant, systemic corruption of the ruling class, the American and Israeli occupations of Arab lands and all human rights abuses.<br><br>It's a huge movement, as I've said. Do you hear about it?<br><br>Funny, they're in the news here all the time, especially in the opposition papers, they've even been mentioned in Mockingbird-infested neo-con rags like the Daily Star (<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2384),">www.dailystaregypt.com/ar...eID=2384),</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> since theirs are the biggest and best-organized demonstrations, and also since they're often getting beaten, getting arrested, some women have been sexually assaulted, and they're often blocking traffic downtown.<br><br>These are pretty brave, articulate, educated people, who speak out with a strong voice, against some pretty bad things.<br><br>Do you get to see them on your news? No? Do you wonder why not? And why the only Egyptian opposition movement you hear about, is the Muslim Brotherhood?<br><br>The Kefaya! movement is not a political party, but parties with similar platforms are constrained by rules and regulations that effectively paralyse those that are not banned, while the 'outlawed' Muslim Brotherhood is allowed to own businesses, raise money, meet and even demonstrate.<br><br>The Muslim Brothers are not allowed to run for office, so their members simply run as independents, using the slogan, "Islam is the answer", which identifies them as Muslim Brotherhood, while the government turns a blind eye.<br><br>On the other hand, the government regularly engages in "sweeps", picking up known or suspected Muslim Brothers, dragging them off to prison and torturing them, often on no or trumped-up charges. <br><br>Many of those unfortunates probably had only the vaguest political awareness, figuring that "finding God" sounds like a good solution to the dire political, economic and social problems that threaten to engulf their society. They attend a couple of meetings, they read a couple of books, maybe do some volunteer charity work.<br><br>In many cases, unsurprisingly, they leave the torture chambers with rather more fixed ideas about who their enemy is and what they're willing to do about it.<br><br>These are the ripe fruit, ready for picking by anyone who promises them the opportunity to fight back against their much more powerful enemy, to get revenge. <br><br>However, even so, it's been pretty hard to find real, local Muslims to form a realistic terrorist group. The only one that came close was the Jamaa al-Islameyya, a radical splinter which supposedly broke off from the Muslim Brotherhood because the Muslim Brotherhood denounced violence.<br><br>A few years of terrible violence later, the group's members were all caught and arrested. While they were in prison, a "dream team" of Islamic scholars was formed, and they went around to the prisons to visit these people, hold free and open discussions with them, and persuade them, using scholarly texts and the Quran, that their actions were contrary to Islam. <br><br>Amazingly, the project was a resounding success, and the members of Jamaa al-Islameyya not only renounced all terrorism, but several of their members wrote books explaining how they had been misled by misinformation disseminated by unscrupulous or ignorant agitators, and outlining the arguments and facts that had persuaded them that such violence is wrong and contrary to Islamic principles.<br><br>Interestingly, a so-called "al-Qaeda" website subsequently announced that the Jamaa al-Islameyya is the al-Qaeda affiliate in Egypt, which prompted a furious denial by the Jamaa.<br><br>Despite the government's initially skeptical reaction to the Jamaa's renunciation of violence, it was eventually convinced, and ordered the release a few years ago, of the 300 Jamaa prisoners, who have lived the quiet lives of model citizens, ever since.<br><br>"Al-Qaeda's" recruiters haven't been having much luck replacing the terrorist Jamaa since the whole thing fizzled out, particularly in Egyptian towns and cities, but you can't accuse them of not trying.<br><br>Since then, we've had two major terrorist attacks in Egypt, oddly enough both in tourist resorts bordering Israel, and both demolishing Egyptian luxury hotels, on two of the most important patriotic holidays: July 23, National Day, and October 6, anniversary of the Egyptian "victory" in the 1973 War with Israel. Neither date had any particular religious significance, but they did have a strong patriotic meaning. Nor was a credible motive ever found. Egyptian security arrested thousands of Bedouins from the area, but nobody could explain why they would target the tourism industry that is their only livelihood...<br><br>OK, I'll spell it out: I suspect that the Israelis were behind it. They had the motive (making Egypt look like a hotbed of violent Islamic terrorism), the opportunity (both resort towns are easily accessible to Israeli operatives) and the means (both attacks used powerful, sophisticated explosives not readily available to your run-of-the-mill terrorist).<br><br>I could be wrong, but that's where I believe the evidence points.<br><br>The locally-recruited patsies rarely get to actually carry out the operations, which are usually entrusted to more professional and competent hands, hence the striking contrast between the patsies' level of skill and resources, and the highly sophisticated explosives, piloting skills, etc., that are evident in the various terrorist attacks attributed to "al-Qaeda". <br><br>But if you don't look too closely, and you have a compliant press, these attacks help to put a face on the "Islamo-fascist" menace that threatens world civilisation and justifies the war crimes committed against helpless populations.<br><br>In Europe, it seems that a disproportionate number of these patsies are "converts", or not particularly religious young men, who suddenly emerge full-blown as hardened fanatic terrorists, with all the skills and resources needed to scare the bejeesus out of decent, freedom-loving Americans and Europeans.<br><br>The fact that so many of the "al-Qaeda" recruiters who effected such miraculous transformations, can be linked to Israeli and Western intelligence agencies, spearheaded by the CIA and MI5/6, but also German and French, goes a long way towards explaining how they were able to recruit, indoctrinate, train and equip terrorists, then avoid capture and imprisonment themselves.<br> <br>Anyway, I know this is getting too long, so I'll try to wrap up here. Your questions, wordspeak, imply that you believe that these "al-Qaeda" cells are organized and run by Western intelligence agencies. I agree with you on that.<br><br>Al-Qaeda is useful on many levels to its handlers: first, it acts as a red flag to the bull of public opinion, distracting public attention from the evil deeds of the neocons and their Israeli friends, who justify their self-serving behaviour as a struggle against international terrorism. <br><br>These people are not "fighting terrorism", they are killing thousands of innocent people, dismantling the structures of democracy and international law, stealing the land, water and petroleum resources of other nations, imposing puppet regimes to impose the neocon capitalist agenda and making a shit-load of money squeezed from the blood of their victims.<br><br>Second, "al-Qaeda" can be the hidden hand that spreads confusion and discord between Shia and Sunni Muslims, and between Muslims and Christians.<br><br>Third, "al-Qaeda" can act as a cover for the assassinations of political oponents and other inconvenient people, including scholars, journalists, politicians, military leaders, and their supporters whose credibility and information pose a threat to neocon/Israeli plans.<br><br>I could probably think of a few more reasons why "al-Qaeda" is so useful to Israel and the neocons, and also to some Western intelligence agencies, but I'll let you think of some.<br><br>In sum, wordspeak, are you suggesting that we fall for it?<br><br>That where "al-Qaeda" rears its ugly head, we should bomb where the neocons tell us to, and let God sort out the broken bodies?<br><br>Are you suggesting that where "al-Qaeda" operates, "we" should commit massacres and war crimes?<br><br>Are you proposing that if someone is accused of membership in "al-Qaeda", they should be deprived of their human and legal rights?<br><br>Are you saying that we should not demand justice for the Palestinian and Iraqi and Lebanese people, for the Muslim hostages in secret American prisons, for the hundreds of thousands of dead Arab children, because international law and moral limitations only apply to "us" and "our" children?<br><br>And finally, are all Muslims "Islamo-fascists" to you? Are all Arab nationalists "Islamo-fascists"? Are all people demanding justice, freedom and self-determination "Islamo-fascists" to you?<br><br>The links are active in the original web-page:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>New Al Qaeda Video More CIA Black Op Propaganda</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Pathetic pretence kept up that "Al Qaeda" is still or ever was a real organized terror outfit and not the creation of deep intelligence.<br><br>Steve Watson / Infowars | September 4 2006<br><br>The latest cobbled together trash home video to be released and accredited to "Al Qaeda" is yet another piece of scripted propaganda that portrays a desperate attempt to give the impression that the group operates as a cohesive unit.<br><br>It is becoming tiresome to have to address these endless videos which are released whenever the Administration is feeling the pressure, something that now seems to be a permanent feature of this government.<br><br>As Kurt Nimmo so eloquently puts it, this time the tape features “Azzam the American,” aka Adam Yahiye Gadahn, born Adam Pearlman, and also going by the names Abu Suhayb al-Amriki, Abu Suhayb, and Yihya Majadin Adams (a score card is required to keep track).<br><br>“Californian Adam Gadahn, wearing a white robe and turban, introduces the message by calling on Westerners to convert,” reports CNN. “We invite all Americans and believers to Islam, whatever their role and status in Bush and Blair’s world order,” Gahahn declares. “Decide today, because today could be your last day.”<br><br>Oh the drama. FEEEEL the force of the Dark Side, you know you want to give in to it, come over to us while you still have a chance.<br><br>Gadahn is the perfect turncoat, the proof positive that we are engaged in a global turf war with the terrorists for hearts and minds.<br><br>Gadahn, who disappeared from California seven years ago, first appeared unmasked on an al Qaeda tape made public in July of this year. His past is however very sketchy and more than a little suspicious. Could he be an invention of Western intelligence?<br><br>Adam Gadahn is in fact the grandson of the late Carl K. Pearlman; a prominent Jewish urologist in Orange County. Carl Pearlman was also a member of the board of directors of the Anti-Defamation League, which was caught spying on Americans for Israel in 1993. This information today also appeared in the Jerusalem post.<br><br>The Washington Post has previously reported that “While living with his grandparents in suburban Santa Ana, he made his first trip to the nearby mosque in 1995. He introduced himself as Yahya - the Arabic name for John the Baptist, revered as a great prophet in Islam.”<br><br>So what is the grandson of a prominent Jew who lives with his grandfather doing attending a mosque? Furthermore given this context it seems suspicious that he would then assault members of the Mosque and turn to radical Islam, which is what he then did just before disappearing off to Pakistan.<br><br>Gadahn / Azzam/ Pearlman is also known for an internet essay “Becoming Muslim”, which, as Los Angeles City Beat Journalist Annette Stark has pointed out, is itself very suspicious:<br><br>“On the left, conspiracy theorists – no less energized than their right-wing counterparts – got busy, too. They thought it strange, they said, as if the government stitched the story together from scratch. Some kid who never before posted to the Internet drops a deeply personal revelation onto a USC website, a diatribe that is chock full of anti-government, anti-Christian sentiments, and then pretty much disappears from cyberspace."<br><br>It is basically written from a Zionist perspective and not the perspective of the American government in 1995. Remember there was no war on "Islamic Fascism" in 1995.<br><br>Another key indicator that Gadahn / Azzam/ Pearlman is in the employ of Western Intelligence comes from a report out of the Orange County Weekly which details how a man named Khalil Deek, a computer expert who attended the same Mosque as Gadahn and later became a "top Al Qaeda deputy", was continually protected by US authorities and allowed to go free on several occasions. Khalil Deek and Adam Gadahn were accused of organizing a terrorist cell in Anaheim in the mid to late nineties.<br><br>In the past we have highlighted numerous cases of intrinsic links between the major intelligence agencies and Al Qaeda operatives. Quite a few of these have happened to be Jewish or MOSSAD operatives.<br><br>In December 2002 the Executive Intelligence review reported that:<br><br>"the Israeli Mossad and other Israeli intelligence services have been involved in a 13-month effort to "recruit" an Israeli-run, phony "al-Qaeda cell" among Palestinians, so that Israel could achieve a frontline position in the U.S. war against terrorism and get a green light for a worldwide "revenge without borders" policy.'<br><br>The Sydney Morning Herald also reported :<br><br>"The Palestinian Authority arrested a group of collaborators who confessed they were working for Israel, posing as al-Qaeda operatives in the Palestinian territories," said the official, on condition of anonymity."<br><br>The AP also reported the operation:<br><br>"Early last week, Rashi Abu Sba, head of the preventive security apparatus in Gaza, the equivalent of the Shin Bet, accused the Israeli security service of tricking young Palestinians into conducting missions in the name of Al-Qaida."<br><br>MOSSAD has been caught on many occasions infiltrating radical groups to further their own agendas.<br><br>There are also many examples of other intelligence agencies using Al Qaeda as a front for their activities.<br><br>“Al Qaeda,” formerly a Mujahideen database, began as a CIA-ISI contrivance, with likely more than a little help not only from Mossad, but German intelligence (BND) and NATO, the latter two teaming up during the so-called Kosovo War (see German Intelligence and the CIA supported Al Qaeda sponsored Terrorists in Yugoslavia).<br><br>Terror expert John Loftus has previously confirmed this "...back in the late 1990s, the leaders all worked for British intelligence in Kosovo. Believe it or not, British intelligence actually hired some Al-Qaeda guys to help defend the Muslim rights in Albania and in Kosovo. That's when Al-Muhajiroun got started."<br><br>We have previously revealed how former MI5 officer David Shayler has alleged, and French intel sources have corroborated, that the MI6 paid a Libyan Al Qaeda cell £100,000 in 1995 to assassinate colonel Qaddafi. The use of the group that has come to be known as "Al Qaeda" as assets by Intelligence services the world over is well documented.<br><br>The London Independent also reported 2 days before the London Bombings how MI5 has previously used so called Al Qaeda operatives as informants, allowing them to be left alone as a trade off.<br><br>This only came to light when Bisher al-Rawi was captured by the CIA and taken to the detention centre at Guantanamo Bay. The original Independent link has now mysteriously been removed.<br><br>John Loftus also spelt out on FOX TV that British Intelligence and the US dept of Justice had protected Haroon Rashid Aswat, the originally cited mastermind of the 7/7 bombings: "Back in 1999 he came to America. The Justice Department wanted to indict him in Seattle because him and his buddy were trying to set up a terrorist training school in Oregon... we've just learned that the headquarters of the US Justice Department ordered the Seattle prosecutors not to touch Aswat... , apparently Aswat was working for British intelligence"<br><br>Furthermore, before he was laid out to pasture earlier this year, presumably because it was getting ridiculous the amount of times he had already been reported captured or killed, Musab Al-Zarqawi's role was exaggerated by The Pentagon in order to subtly link Iraq and 9/11 and quell criticism of the war.<br><br>Leaked documents even admitted that the Pentagon had concocted fake Al-Zarqawi letters boasting about suicide attacks and leaked them to the New York Times. The same documents directly stated that the false promotion of Al-Zarqawi included marking the the "U.S. Home Audience" as one of the targets of a broader propaganda campaign."<br><br>This information is startling and again highlights how Al Qaeda exists as an organized body only where the intelligence services have created, funded and employed it.....<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.infowars.net/articles/September2006/040906AlQaeda.htm">www.infowars.net/articles...lQaeda.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>