Old Crow and DMT

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Re: dmt unique

Postby slimmouse » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:48 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This resulted in twenty minutes of mesmerizing communion with a palm tree in a parking lot. I can't speak for the species or genera, but that particular palm had some deep thoughts going on. To be honest, there were also erotic overtones to our little chat. Impossible to describe, really.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> I had to grin when I saw this. I was talking to a friend just recently who told me of an intelligent 2 hour conversation he once held with an oak tree having dropped some acid.<br><br> Im not for one moment ridiculing this BTW. I know a lot better having read Backsters stuff with plants. <p></p><i></i>
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addenum

Postby Homeless Halo » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:50 pm

I've had many informative exchanges with cows while under the influence of various chemicals. My family used to have a farm in the hills. Cows have buddha nature, you know. <p></p><i></i>
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intriguing

Postby Jen » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:08 pm

This thread is so educational. I've only tried what turned out to be an extremely mild hallucinagen once; it was great. I've always wanted to have an OOBE, but have not been able to achieve it under any circumstances, chemically-enhanced or otherwise. I would be very interested in using a tiny amount of something like SD, just to see what I could get out of it, but the cautionary warnings in this forum have definitely made me decide to do that eventually, and only after taking the necessary precautions. And the truth is, right now would NOT be the best time. I'm having a hard enough time functioning comfortably with my sixth sense as active as it is at the moment while stone cold sober.<br><br>Man. I've been skittery about actually registering here, but this thread makes me want to say...fuck it. <p></p><i></i>
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Jen

Postby Homeless Halo » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:18 pm

SD is interesting, and you should, especially if you're new to psychadelics as a whole, start slowly. Wade a little first. <br><br>Personally, smoking SD never did anything for me, so I skipped a few steps to the high dose. I've more experience in this sort of thing, with only the odd hippie having clocked more hours in universe B than me.<br><br>I tried for the opportunity for inducing OBE in controlled tests. Someday I intend to replicate these for publication perhaps.<br><br>OBE can be induced during Lucid Sleep state. This is the recommended course for the average occult neophyte. It is a lot easier than doing it while you're awake. From there one can learn to induce it during the hypnagogic state, or "sleep paralysis" wherein many "abduction" experiences take place. <br><br>Lucid Dreaming is easy to learn and first requires simply that one becomes aware that one is dreaming. The easiest way to do this is to begin recording what fragments of dreams are recalled immediately upon waking. Continue this practice until you become aware of more of your time asleep. Then you can begin.<br><br> There are many avenues open to a person seeking this experience and chemistry is only one of them. <br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: intriguing

Postby slimmouse » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:21 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This thread is so educational.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> Funny old world huh ? If someone had ever suggested to me even 2 years ago that I would be able to take ANYONE seriously who claimed to have had a conversation with a plant a tree or a cow, I might have suggested that even I myself needed to check in somewhere.<br><br> Knowledge is power.<br><br> Is consensus reality where the real crazies are ? <br><br> <br> <p></p><i></i>
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ha

Postby Homeless Halo » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:30 pm

Consensus reality is so 20th century. <p></p><i></i>
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four comments, and a speculation:

Postby glubglubglub » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:06 pm

i) DMT is exceedingly powerful (ahem) in the freebase, but quite tameable in any of the ayahuasca-style preparations ( oral ingestion + maoi to activate ) with sufficient practice, and with a mind to the dose (once above threshold less is more productive than more). I think the author's premise that under the right circumstances if the brain thinks the body is about to die it dumps dmt to transfer the consciousness elsewhere, although even if correct the significance of that fact'd be wide-open to debate; as I think I've said previously I immediately discount the opinions of people who claim to have made sense of the experience/the other side/however you wish to call it -- that you've gotten used to it and have a familiarity I'll accept, but claims of understanding are just hubris.<br><br>Technical note: melatonin -> 5-meo-dmt -> (perhaps) dmt via some catalysis, or at least that's the current hypothesis. I've no direct experience w. 5-meo but all accounts indicate it's very different from its simpler cousin...worth keeping in mind while speculating about melatonin dreams.<br><br>ii) SD seems very alien to me -- it didn't do much until I went straight to the liquid extract, and it didn't so much feel unnatural as just of an alien nature, in the same way that I intellectually recognize, say, an insect as natural but still very alien to my mammalian sensibilities...given its bizarre mechanism of action -- a kappa-opioid-agonist -- my suspicion is that the mode of consciousness it ties into is an avenue that was mostly abandoned on our evolutionary path, and consequently even though the door is still there to be opened there's not a lot of processing infrastructure in place to handle what it dumps into you.<br><br>iii) The author's speculation about the coccyx was very much a lightbulb moment -- it provides a sensible explanation or theory for the 'alien abduction' = 'anal probing' correllation. Not sure that I'd buy that explanation as a complete one, but it's a major step towards having a theory. Worth reading the article alone just for that investigatory lead.<br><br>iv) Many people seem to put a sort of naive faith on labelling, categorizing, and otherwise delineating the varieties of experience; although this may be essential for communication, there's a nice warning about moons, fingers, and pointing that ought to be kept in mind, lest you mistake your framework for what it serves to contain.<br><br>a speculation: the most productive frontier of psychedelia isn't going to be new substances and also isn't going to be the territory exposed by higher doses of known substances; rather, the real frontier is developing the chemical technology and practical knowledge base to enable, say, spending a week or month or more just over the apparent activation threshold of some of the obvious candidates -- psilocin or dmt, say -- and explore the world of low-dose, long-duration, continual usage. I'd argue that contemporary psychedelic research -- ie, self experimentation + trip log -- is more akin to breath-hold-diving or being shot out of a cannon, when what's needed is something akin to a submarine or powered, controlled flight. <p></p><i></i>
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hmm

Postby Homeless Halo » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:35 pm

I don't think the author in question intended his ideas as the "last word" on the subject, as I've occassionally read things by him that would contradict the opinions of his recent article.<br><br>Interestingly enough, it was the probe meme that jumped at me too. It seems that Mr BMB's contemporaries (i.e.TOOL) have a fascination with this particular subject as well. <br><br>I personally don't think that chemicals like DMT/psilocin/DS "take" you anywhere that you weren't already. I am reminded of Phillip Dick's overlapping alternate universes. Shared spaces/differing vibrations. Although chemistry may indeed "evoke" your brain's ability to register these patterns of vibration that you normally tune out. <br><br>What "they" are, is another thing entirely.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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I wasn't intending to suggest you get taken elsewhere

Postby glubglubglub » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:40 pm

but I suspect there's not much of a meaningful distinction to be made between 'being taken elsewhere' and 'being aware of other simultaneous, parallel happenings', either. In any case, time to get back to following wittgenstein's maxim of not speaking of that which cannot be spoken of...good article, btw. <p></p><i></i>
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ggg

Postby Homeless Halo » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:51 pm

Not big fan of Wittgenstein, but I see the application.<br><br>My mind isn't made up on this issue. I for one, see a huge lack of evidence for any theory that purports to offer an explanation for the varities of this phenomena. <br><br>More rigorous testing will be needed, at the least, before anything can be said with certainty. My own DMT experiences have involved a number of conflicting scenarios. <br><br>DPT, IMO, is more interesting, because of the shifting of the scenery. Although it seems to be less well known. It also lasted a lot longer.<br><br>My own experience has gone from everything to everything else including the traditional "abduction/dissection" meme associated with primitive initiatory rites, aliens, angels, self-transforming machine elves, and little dwarfish people with large spoons(seriously). I find it to be remarkably similar to the effects of willed OBE and ontologically similar to the astral travelling of post-modern shamanic occultism (see: Castenda and contemporaries). All in all, it was enjoyable, even when it is terrifying. I always "come back" feeling as if I've learned something important.<br><br> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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