email i just received, no need to explain

[havanagilla]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 15:59:15 +0300 <br>From: "balmas" here...many contacts, <br>----- Original Message ----- <br>From: To: @zahav.net.il; <br>Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:36 PM<br>Subject: Fw: Strong & very <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>importent</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> interview.<br><br><br>2006 8:09 PM<br>Subject: Fwd: FW: Strong & very importent interview.<br><br>Enjoy this strong & very importent interview (talking clear and sharp arabic, translated to english) <br> <br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>This is a Woman with iron balls - see this, yosi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br>Enjoy this interview with a Lebanese psychologist, Dr. Wafa Sultan, which is shocking in its clear & precise truths. This is some brave lady. PLEASE, HELP DISTRIBUTE THIS INTERVIEW ! <br><br>This is worth worldwide distribution. <br><br>----- <br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv">switch5.castup.net/frames...ar=1050wmv</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> &ak=null<br> <br> <br>See, the Israeli men perceive an Arab lady who tells Arab men they are backward and barbaric (and treat women as if they are animals) - <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>as A LADY WITH <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">BALLS.[/</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->b]<br>Similar critique coming from an Israeli woman would end with a lynch ! (in fact, the blogger who committed suicide last month was telling it as it is, to Israeli men, re sex abuse, and ended up suicided thereby).<br><br><br> <br> <br> <br><br> <br><br> <br> <br><br> <br><br>please listen<br><br><br> <br> <br> <br><br><br><br><br> <br></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <p></p><i></i>

[yathrib]

She's not 100% right on everything, but she's right about enough. And in a religion where apostasy is an automatic death sentence, she *does* have iron balls. If I were her, I'd buy some good guard dogs! <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

was refering to the chauvinist "iron <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>balls"</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> item, to describe a brave WOMAN. did you read it carefully ? <p></p><i></i>

[yathrib]

Point taken. I hear the phrase used a lot w/ no particular ill will (I think), but it is pretty Neanderthal. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=yathrib>yathrib</A> at: 8/2/06 9:47 am<br></i>

[havanagilla]

another point. I was totally for her critique of her own culture and especially male dominance, even if she is obviously being used for a war propaganda now. (i say, fight male dominance as if there is no war, otherwise, we will get nowhere) BUT, the chances of her getting hit by some crazy moslem are no greater than the chances of David kelly to get himself slashed to death by the "civilized" proponents of war, and others like him. Lots of people dying recently, under western "fatwah"...so, let's keep things in proportion.<br>--<br> <p></p><i></i>

[AlicetheCurious]

I can't see the video, because my line is too slow, but I think I've got the gist of it from the comments.<br><br>Arab women have issues, no doubt about that, but it makes me sick how often the same people who cry crocodile tears about how repressed Muslim women are, are the same ones who cheer as women and children's bodies are torn apart by US-made weapons.<br><br>Women's rights are no less and no less important than human rights. To use women in this way, to justify mass murder and dispossession is nothing less than evil.<br><br>Laura Bush's concern for women's rights in Afghanistan evaporated when the Daisy-cutters and bunker-busters began their bloody work. Remember, after being treated to her lectures on the oppression of women in Afghanistan, we didn't hear from her again. Instead, we were told, "We don't DO body counts."<br><br>When will you learn that these people only use concepts like women's rights, human rights, freedom, democracy, etc., as pretty music to accompany their slaughter? <p></p><i></i>

[yathrib]

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br>BTW, I am well aware that these issues are used as propaganda by people who really have no business talking about them. <p></p><i></i>

[yathrib]

...after 911, Muslim women were the main victims of popular anti-islamic sentiment because of their distinctive dress. Not consistent w/ the presumed opinion of many people holding such sentiments that Muslim women are *victims.* When the opportunity presented itself, they merely directed their hatred at the nearest target. <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

i think women's rights should at least be considered equivalent to being a 'sell out of america' in your terms, Alice. I think this is the pitfall of the "third way" you are commending between sell out and fundiesm. The truth is that we don't fight for our values at all, we fight the wars of men on nationalism and pride, and receive the same shit in another coat. I would go into in now, but am too tired and hot. I don't agree with you on that point ! and i think it is crucial that you re examine your will to risk lives over standing up to uncle scam, and your unwillingness to do same for the heart of "the third way" which imho is women's rights not to be enslaved and raped at will. wlil not get into feminism 101 now, but i hope you get the gist. we have to at least maintain integrity on the theory level, if not action. <br>--<br>I would make a principled decision, to support this doctor despite the context, if only for solidarity and to be credible if you call, or I, for other women, in different situations to trust us when they speak up. The Laura Bush phenomenon exists cause there is NO credible lefty liberal feminist network at all.<br>I say, no woman should overlook her own rights in order to stand by her "country" in time of war or what not. it should be indivisible as any other basic human right. From there, a true care for lives and children and prevention of war can arise. But not if we continue allowing the warmongers ON ALL SIDES to use us for propaganda.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[AlicetheCurious]

Hava, I'm writing instead of packing for our 3-week trip tomorrow, let go of me! I have no idea what I'll do with no internet for three weeks...<br><br>I maybe didn't make myself clear. I don't give a flying spit for nationalism or men's freaking 'pride'. These are the equivalent of the fundies' demagogic appeals to the sheep to get them to fight what they think are "holy" wars.<br><br>First, I was reacting to the unbearable (for me) hypocrisy of the world watching passively as women and children are massacred, but oozing sympathy when an Arab woman talks about how women are oppressed by Arab men.<br><br>My point is that women's rights should not be distinct from human rights. Whether it's wars, or corruption, or economic enslavement, women always pay the biggest price, as do children.<br><br>So, although I am very much a feminist, I am not willing for my principles to be twisted into a way to dehumanize all Arabs, men AND women. And God forbid they should be used to justify their murder and dispossession!!<br><br>When a home is demolished and a family loses everything, when the breadwinner of a family is imprisoned and often tortured, when children are shot and killed or crippled for life, when economies are destroyed, do you really think that you'll get far if you go to these people and preach about feminism? Especially if you've been silent or complicit with the crimes committed against them as people?<br><br>My "third way" is not some ideology, it's the only sane way for me to live. I have learned from my bitter personal experience that it's not what other people do to you, it's what you do to yourself that can break you, especially the lies you tell yourself and the many ways you deaden your senses so that you don't feel the pain of collaborating in your own degradation.<br><br>BTW, I recently lent a Palestinian friend of mine "Man's Search for Meaning," by Viktor Frankl; it's a brilliant book by a psychiatrist who was imprisoned in Auchwitz and who writes about what makes some people give up and die, give in and collaborate with their oppressors while others are strengthened in their will to live and to fight for what they believe.<br><br>She called me up a couple of days ago and said it deeply touched her and she wants to send a bunch of copies to her family in Gaza. How's that for a kick in the head?<br><br>Now somebody should tell that moron Bush that THAT's ironic! <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

have a nice trip, don't forget where you came from, hey ?<br>you are dismissed ! at ease :-) <p></p><i></i>