The "Faked NASA moon landings" thread

by **scollon** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:45 pm

!"Then unplug your refrigerator, it too, is a hoax" Yes but the intelligent guy said you were wrong in the context which you are because there is no mention of it anywhere apart from one site you unfortunately googled . Also the idea of boiling away precious coolant isn't smart at all. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I'm trying real hard to keep from imagining you, Scollon in a similar circumstance.... But the answer would be both. <hr></blockquote> Your little brain would melt into an infinitesemal drop of pure venom, that's would would happen. "Oh, the irony..... " I was just responding in kind to the other retard who was saying , insulting, patronising things. Yes and the retard was completely wrong on every count. Like this "But that's another thing -- Your argument isn't even logically consistent (as Orz pointed out). On the one hand you claim that NASA scientists and astronomers are too dumb to cleverly 'chart' the position of stars, while asserting that amateur astronomers are too clever to be fooled -- so they COULD chart the 'correct' star positions. It's amazing how many Hoax Believers can be taken in by such sloppy thinking -- what is it, a compensating mechanism by which to 'prove' that one is more clever than the scientific conspiracy community? Or a knee-jerk response -- if 'they' something is so-and-so, then 'they' must be lying? You make other false generalizations --such as, that the scientific community is in one accord on the 'safety' of GM foods. Wrong -- there is NO WAY any consensus -- many, many biologists and biochemists and geneticists and other scientists oppose the increasing use of GM technology to manipulate and control the food supply. This is another indication of how selectively informed you are. You also don't even make the effort to familiarize yourself with counterarguments -- you just assume you're right so why bother? ? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=scollon>scollon</A> at: 1/6/06 4:51 pm

by **Pirx** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:47 pm

Earthshine- yes, and no. The reflected earthlight is too faint compared to sunlight during a lunar day. Imagine trying to cast shadows with a flashlight on a sunny beach. And raw sunlight is even brighter than that. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>-how minute does a fake have to get?<hr></blockquote> Didn't someone calculate that the cost of maintaining such a hoax would be substantially more than the cost of actually flying to the moon? Your point about the people involved is a good one. Hundreds of thousands of talented folks did their very best to make those missions happen and they deserve more than being spit apon by some goofus with no understanding of basic optics, who's really just trying to sell you a load of crap via a book or video.

by **Pirx** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:20 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Yes but the intelligent guy said you were wrong in the context which you are because there is no mention of it anywhere apart from one site you unfortunately googled .<hr></blockquote> Okay, my post did require a little brainwork on your part. Lets back up a bit . <a href="http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~do_while/sage/v7i1f.htm">www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~do_.../v7i1f.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>boiling away precious coolant isn't smart at all.<hr></blockquote> Whatsamatta? too "sweaty" for you? <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Your little brain would melt into an infinitesemal drop of pure venom, that's would would happen.<hr></blockquote> But I said it with a smile..... <blockquote>Quote:<hr>"Oh, the irony..... " I was just responding in kind to the other retard who was saying , insulting, patronising things. Yes and the retard was completely wrong on every count.<hr></blockquote> Attaboy, keep'em coming.

by **scollon** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:50 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Okay, my post did require a little brainwork on your part. Lets back up a bit <hr></blockquote> Sure, I'm going to go back to school on the say so of another creepy guy who don't understandz nuttin, just posts irrelevant links to what clever folks sez. You probably one o' dem hippy hoppy guys who is so cool you is cooler than thermodynamics, like dat ememememmy dude.

by **Pirx** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:05 pm

Ironic AND ebonic... Impressive. But you still can't defend your position on the moon flights.

by **dagnabit** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:52 am

"Do you know how many times we landed on the moon? Six. Why would we fake a moon landing SIX TIMES? (The more people who know about a secret, the harder it is to keep.)" LOL And they sure spent a lot of money and effort uprooting scientists and their families (including mine) to what was then still a comparatively wild and wooly place. "Why haven't we been back there?" One of the things I remember distinctly was the rather big argument against the moon as a target-- ie 'Why the moon? If you're going to spend that kind of money, shoot for Mars or somewhere Interesting and Worthwhile.' Probably the criticism that most annoyed those who actually worked on the project. "Apollo took about 2.5 years . The whole US program was about 7 years from Kennedy's announcement." Well, 8 yrs from Kennedy's announcement (5/61) to Apollo landing (7/69). But they were working on the precursors prior to that, though. They didn't start from nothing. Bringing all those German rocketmen over post WW2.... '" This is obviously a question only engineers would have fun with! " LOL My dad had degrees in both physics and engineering. He used to make me type up rough drafts for him--torture. Strings of random obscure words with precisely-spaced long blanks for all the symbols. That was enough of that for me. I sometimes thought he existed on a different plane from most of us. "If you go back in history, we were good on Apollo, but we were also lucky." Yep---I don't think they were at all SURE it would go well but not inclined to show it.

by JD » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:13 pm

An interesting addition to this thread. If anyone has comments relating to the accuracy of the numbers of photos would like to hear them: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4 TIME & MOTION STUDY: Anyone with even elemental math skills and common sense can look at the facts, do the calculations, and come to their own conclusions about the alleged MASSIVE VOLUME of lunar surface photography in such a LIMITED TIME. Here is my conclusion: IT COULD NOT BE DONE. <a href="http://www.aulis.com/skeleton.html">www.aulis.com/skeleton.html</a> It boils down not to just studying the photographs for signs of fakery, though I have examined every available Apollo photo for more than three years (and discovered many fakes). Very simply, it amounts to a study known to many businesses...A TIME AND MOTION STUDY. The elementary question is: was it possible to take the known number of photos (from NASA records) in the amount of time available (from NASA records)? But before you read my study, to understand it you need to know some basic information about the Apollo missions: 1. Of seven Apollo missions to put "men on the Moon", six were claimed to be "successful". (Apollo 13 was "aborted".) 2. Each of the six successful missions landed two astronauts "on the Moon" in a flimsy craft NASA originally had called the Lunar Excursion Module (LEM, later shortened to LM), an unproven craft which never had an opportunity for a lunar landing test flight. But it landed and then took off six times with spectacular "success" on Apollo missions 11 and 12, and 14 through 17...once even landing within 200 feet of a pre-selected target. 3. Two astronauts rode each LEM to the Moon surface while one remained in the orbiting Command and Service Module (CSM) awaiting their return. 4. During their Extra-Vehicular Activity (lunar surface exploration) each of the two wore a bulky inflated spacesuit with clumsy gloves, greatly limiting mobility. On their backs they wore a huge and heavy Life Support System (PLSS) backpack containing an oxygen tank and circulating water air conditioning system which pumped refrigerated water throughout the suit to counteract the 200+/- degree heat (and cold) of lunar conditions. Pumps circulated both refrigerated air and water to the liquid cooling undergarment, as well as dehumidifying, removing carbon dioxide, and providing all other functions needed to survive harsh conditions in the confining suits. 5. The principal objective of all six missions was SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH projects to be carried out by the two astronauts. Most of the projects, which numbered about a half dozen each mission, were remarkably similar on all six missions. All of these science experiments involved unpacking equipment from stowage bays, assembling it, transporting it to its location, setting it up, and then doing the experiments. As you might imagine, each of these research projects would require a major portion of the TIME of the two men for each experiment. 6. Another major project besides operation of the packaged experiments was the Geological Study, which involved searching for different specimens of rocks and soils in various locations, documenting and collecting samples to return to earth. This obviously occupied much of their TIME. 7. Considerable TIME was needed for "housekeeping chores". After landing, the LEM had to be inspected to make sure it had not been damaged. Communications equipment to put them in contact with Earth had to be set up and operated, including radio and television antennas and TV cameras. The US flag was planted in the moondust on each mission. All of this was done before any experiments were initiated. Oh, and don't forget the "ceremonial" chat with President Nixon during Apollo 11. 8. The first three missions required the astronauts to walk to each experiment location. The last three missions were supplied with a Lunar Roving Vehicle (LRV) to travel to distant locations miles away from the LEM. The partially pre-assembled LRV was attached to the outside of the LEM. The rover floor served as a pallet which was hinged to the outside of the LRV. The wheels were folded under. The "pallet" was lowered by hand to the lunar surface, and the wheels rotated into position. After the wheels were down, the vehicle had to be outfitted with all of its considerable equipment from various storage bins of the LEM. Oddly, not a single photo exists in the public domain (at least that I could find to date) of the astronauts assembling and equipping the LRVs. The battery-powered rovers had a top speed of about 8 mph, only slightly faster than walking...much like a golf cart. During the LRV travels ("traverses"), both men rode, and when moving, had no opportunity for photography. Also, the time taken in assembling the rover was not used for any photography. Though I could find no time given by NASA, surely it is reasonable to guess that it took at least an hour to unload, assemble and equip and test a rover? 9. Almost incidental to the main astronaut tasks was PHOTOGRAPHY. Each astronaut had his own camera. (Apart from the Apollo 11 EVA.) It was a square-format specially-built Hasselblad. It was mounted on a chest-plate for the astronaut to operate. The astronaut had to manually set the shutter speed and apertures while wearing bulky, pressurized gloves and without being able to see the controls. The cameras had NO VIEWFINDER, so the astronaut could only guess at what was being photographed. Each camera had a bulk film magazine holding more than a hundred exposures. The film (mainly Ektachrome color film) had a very narrow exposure range, which required PERFECT aperture and shutter settings, because according to NASA, the cameras did not have automatic exposure capability. 10. It is important to know that although each man had his own camera, they ALMOST NEVER USED THEM AT THE SAME TIME. Usually one of them was photographing the other doing some task. Therefore having two cameras DID NOT TRANSLATE TO TWICE AS MUCH TIME FOR PHOTOGRAPHY, as one might surmise. Now that you understand the missions, here is my discovery of NASA overzealousness, which has been successfully hidden till now. A TIME AND MOTION STUDY For more than three years I have been collecting and analyzing nearly all the significant photos from the Apollo missions. These official photos are readily available on multiple NASA websites for downloading. Recently I noticed they were taking up many gigabytes of memory on my computer's external hard drive, so I began organizing them and deleting duplications. I did a rough estimate of the number of Apollo photos, and was amazed that I had thousands! I visited several official NASA websites to find HOW MANY PHOTOS WERE TAKEN on the surface of the Moon. Amazingly, NASA AVOIDS THIS SUBJECT almost entirely. Two days of searching documents and text were fruitless. But Lunar Surface Journal, one of the sites, lists every photo with its file number. So I undertook to make an actual count of every photo taken by astronauts DURING EXTRA-VEHICULAR ACTIVITY (EVA), the time spent on the surface out of the LEM. Here is my actual count of EVA photos of the six missions: Apollo 11........... 121 Apollo 12........... 504 Apollo 14........... 374 Apollo 15..........1021 Apollo 16..........1765 Apollo 17..........1986 So 12 astronauts while on the Moon's surface took a TOTAL of 5771 exposures. That seemed excessively large to me, considering that their TIME on the lunar surface was limited, and the astronauts had MANY OTHER TASKS OTHER THAN PHOTOGRAPHY. So I returned to the Lunar Surface Journal to find how much TIME was available to do all the scientific tasks AS WELL AS PHOTOGRAPHY. Unlike the number of photos, this information is readily available: Apollo 11........1 EVA .....2 hours, 31 minutes......(151 minutes) Apollo 12........2 EVAs.....7 hours, 50 minutes......(470 minutes) Apollo 14........2 EVAs.....9 hours, 25 minutes......(565 minutes) Apollo 15........3 EVAs...18 hours, 30 minutes....(1110 minutes) Apollo 16........3 EVAs...20 hours, 14 minutes....(1214 minutes) Apollo 17........3 EVAs...22 hours, 04 minutes....(1324 minutes) Total minutes on the Moon amounted to 4834 minutes. Total number of photographs taken was 5771 photos. Hmmmmm. That amounts to 1.19 photos taken EVERY MINUTE of time on the Moon, REGARDLESS OF OTHER ACTIVITIES. (That requires the taking of ONE PHOTO EVERY 50 SECONDS!) Let's look at those other activities to see how much time should be deducted from available photo time: Apollo 11..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment, operate the TV camera (360 degree pan), establish contact with Earth (including ceremonial talk with President Nixon), unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages, find/document/collect 47.7 pounds of lunar rock samples, walk to various locations, conclude experiments, return to LEM. Apollo 12..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment (spend time trying to fix faulty TV camera), establish contact with Earth, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages, walk to various locations, inspect the unmanned Surveyor 3 which had landed on the Moon in April 1967 and retrieve Surveyor parts. Deploy ALSEP package. Find/document/collect 75.7 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. Apollo 14..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack and assemble hand cart to transport rocks, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages, walk to various locations. Find/document/collect 94.4 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. Apollo 15..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack/assemble/equip and test the LRV electric-powered 4-wheel drive car and drive it 17 miles, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages (double the scientific payload of first three missions). Find/document/collect 169 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. (The LRV travels only 8 mph*.) Apollo 16..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack/assemble/equip and test the LRV electric-powered 4-wheel drive car and drive it 16 miles, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages (double the scientific payload of first three missions, including new ultraviolet camera, operate the UV camera). Find/document/collect 208.3 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. (The LRV travels only 8 mph*.) Apollo 17..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack/assemble/equip and test the LRV electric-powered 4-wheel drive car and drive it 30.5 miles, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages. Find/document/collect 243.1 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. (The LRV travels only 8 mph*.) Let's arbitrarily calculate a MINIMUM time for these tasks and subtract from available photo time: Apollo 11....subtract 2 hours (120 minutes), leaving 031 minutes for taking photos Apollo 12....subtract 4 hours (240 minutes), leaving 230 minutes for taking photos Apollo 14....subtract 3 hours (180 minutes), leaving 385 minutes for taking photos Apollo 15....subtract 6 hours (360 minutes), leaving 750 minutes for taking photos Apollo 16....subtract 6 hours (360 minutes), leaving 854 minutes for taking photos Apollo 17....subtract 8 hours (480 minutes), leaving 844 minutes for taking photos So do the math: Apollo 11.......121 photos in 031 minutes............3.90 photos per minute Apollo 12.......504 photos in 230 minutes............2.19 photos per minute Apollo 14.......374 photos in 385 minutes............0.97 photos per minute Apollo 15.....1021 photos in 750 minutes............1.36 photos per minute Apollo 16.....1765 photos in 854 minutes ...........2.06 photos per minute Apollo 17.....1986 photos in 844 minutes ...........2.35 photos per minute Or, to put it more simply: Apollo 11........one photo every 15 seconds Apollo 12........one photo every 27 seconds Apollo 14........one photo every 62 seconds Apollo 15........one photo every 44 seconds Apollo 16........one photo every 29 seconds Apollo 17........one photo every 26 seconds So you decide. Given all the facts, was it possible to take that many photos in so short a time? Any professional photographer will tell you it cannot be done. Virtually every photo was a different scene or in a different place, requiring travel. As much as 30 miles travel was required to reach some of the photo sites. Extra care had to be taken shooting some stereo pairs and panoramas. Each picture was taken without a viewfinder, using manual camera settings, with no automatic metering, while wearing a bulky spacesuit and stiff clumsy gloves. The agency wants the world to believe that 5771 photographs were taken in 4834 minutes! IF NOTHING BUT PHOTOGRAPHY HAD BEEN DONE, such a feat is clearly impossible...made even more so by all the documented activities of the astronauts. Imagine...1.19 photos every minute that men were on the Moon –- that's one picture every 50 SECONDS! The secret NASA tried to hide has been discovered: The quantity of photos purporting to record the Apollo lunar EVAs could not have been taken on the Moon in such an impossible time frame. So why do these photos exist? How did these photos get made? Did ANY men go to the Moon? Or was it truly the greatest hoax ever? © 2005 Jack White

by **orz** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:25 pm

I realise that's copy + pasted so won't try to argue it... but a few points: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Any professional photographer will tell you it cannot be done. <hr></blockquote>... but HAVE any professional photographers told anyone it cannot be done? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> I seem to remember that reading that the cameras are motorised so you could easily take lots of photos very quickly... also I believe I read that the apature was set and not particularly changed. Beyond that I can't really be bothered to figure out if the calculations etc even make sense or anything. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> I think if I were ON THE MOON I'd get thru 121 photos in no time!! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

by **Pants Elk** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:46 pm

I dunno. JD's POST has me CONVINCED that the MOON LANDINGS wre FAKED. Especially the reference to the HEAVY EQUIPMENT they had to CARRY. On the MOON. Where HEAVY is the new LIGHT. I think it's something to do with the PERSUASIVE FORCE of CAPITAL LETTERS.

by **Pirx** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:10 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Any professional photographer will tell you it cannot be done.<hr></blockquote> And legions of Japanese tourists beg to differ.....

by **Iroquois** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:30 am

Mass is the same, whether on the Earth or the Moon. The astronauts would need to respect that. They would also need to respect the fact that they are a long way from home, in an extraordinarily hazardous environment, and doing tasks that a whole lot of people spent a lot of time, effort, and money to make possible. They would not only need to be extremely deliberate and methodical, they would have to be constantly referencing mental checklists and reviewing every action. I'm not weighing in, just offering some points that I think are being overlooked. These excursions would have been nothing like tourist trips, though the view would have been awesome.

by **Pants Elk** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:29 am

I'm leaning toward the opinion that the faked moon landings were themselves faked. The PTB looked at the costs and logistics of faking umpteen Apollo moonshots and paying off/scaring off/bumping off the thousands of people involved in the scam and decided that on cost grounds alone it would be cheaper to actually fire the fucking rockets at the moon anyway, now they'd gone and had them built and trained up the astry-nauts and all. So that's what they did, very cleverly covering up the real moon shots as "fake". But they didn't fool *me* - nossirreee bob!

by **Pirx** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:48 am

One could argue that Apollo 11 was a tourist trip. The objective- arrive safely, grab some trinkets, have a snack, toss some trash out, and leave safely. Does sound like most any road trip. But on the photo quantity issue, how many tourists spend many many months practicing taking pictures of their destination?

by **Pirx** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:50 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>astry-nauts<hr></blockquote> lol I like the way you talk, PE

by **robertdreed** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:09 am

wow...134 posts.

The "Faked NASA moon landings" thread

Re: Clever Thing?

Re: fwiw

Re: Clever Thing?

Re: Clever Thing?

Re: Clever Thing?

moon shot hoax

Time and Motion

Re: Time and Motion

Box Brownies

Re: Time and Motion

Lunar Tourism

Phakery

Re: Lunar Tourism

Re: Phakery

134 posts

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