Icke Interview

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Re: did you listen.

Postby slimmouse » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:39 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Any decent disinformationist, especially the machiavellian kind, is going to SOUND plausible or even good or right some or even most of the time<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> I can understand your skepticism based on the reviews.<br><br> But who can we <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>really</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> trust ? What do <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>you</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> think ?<br><br> I <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>wouldnt</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> suggest for one moment that you are a disinformationalist, having the advantage of having read your posts first hand. Having read your writings <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>personally</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br> But would it be reasonable of me to suggest you were such, had I not personally read anything you had written, or listened to a single word you said ?<br><br> Or would you consider that to be impolite ?<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 7/15/05 9:46 pm<br></i>
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Re: did you listen.

Postby Seventhsonjr » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:42 pm

I have read his stuff. Any sane oersonb will see it is insane and any political investigative journalist will recognize it immediately as hatefilled stench promoting the Buszi agenda. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: did you listen.

Postby slimmouse » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:00 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I have read his stuff. Any sane oersonb will see it is insane and any political investigative journalist will recognize it immediately as hatefilled stench promoting the Buszi agenda.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br> Perhaps you might offer a few documented quotes that might indicate more specifically what you are claiming ?<br><br> Might I also suggest that all individual intellectual thinking is constantly evolving, and with that in mind, ask you to consider listening to his more recent thinking ?<br><br> In the meantime, perhaps we might agree to disagree ? Since I find all this "Anti semitic Neo Nazi" smearing to be the very kind of hysterical ranting that persuaded me not to read Icke for long enough; and having done so, and subsequently decided to make my own mind up, quite frankly made me wonder exactly WHY people were making such nonsensical (IMO) claims. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 7/15/05 10:15 pm<br></i>
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Re: did you listen. Yes. I READ the following pus

Postby Seventhsonjr » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:47 am

WAS HITLER A ROTHSCHILD?<br>by David Icke <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Take the Rothschilds, the bloodline formerly known, among other names, as the Bauers, one of the most notorious black occult bloodlines of Middle Ages Germany. The Rothschilds are one of the top Illuminati bloodlines on the planet and they are shape-shifting reptilians (see The Biggest Secret). <br><br><br>Indeed, the Illuminati are so utterly obsessed with bloodline, because of this reptilian genetic code, that there was no way that someone like Hitler would come to power in those vital circumstances for the Illuminati, unless he was of the reptilian bloodline.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>only an insane person would believe any of this <p></p><i></i>
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Thanks to Icke

Postby Project Willow » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:50 am

The reptile image has become cliche. It is now inextricably linked to elite conspiracy, mind control, and ritual abuse-torture. Its weight sinks these and other subjects to the bottom of the trash bin. It's a perfect silencing op.<br>I've been subject to ridicule more than once thanks to Icke, and frankly I'd like to punch him in the nose. I've met people who "educate" about mind control and related subjects who propagate his themes. They aren't interested in other research or sources. They're on the payroll.<br><br>There is another side to it as well. I've met some people who buy into the reptillian idea, and they do so because they cannot bring themselves to accept that humans are capable of such extremely evil acts on their own. We don't need to supply yet another prop for people's defences. One central enabler of evil is of course our inability to accept all that humans are capable of. <p>PW</p><i></i>
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Thanks Willow!

Postby Seventhsonjr » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:56 am

Finally I am not alone in what appears to be a magnet board for those who want to discredit RI and anyone who discusses global fascism.<br><br>I really appreciate it.<br><br>Wondered where the thinking people were.<br><br>Icke is all Bush all the time IMO. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Thanks to Icke

Postby slimmouse » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:13 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The reptile image has become cliche. It is now inextricably linked to elite conspiracy, mind control, and ritual abuse-torture. Its weight sinks these and other subjects to the bottom of the trash bin. It's a perfect silencing op.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> So who IYHO is decieving who here ? Icke quoting these people or these people who are telling Icke what happened.<br><br> Or is he mis interpreting people ? Or is he being too honest ?<br> Im not in any way poking fun here, Im seriously trying to learn !<br><br> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I've been subject to ridicule more than once thanks to Icke, and frankly I'd like to punch him in the nose. I've met people who "educate" about mind control and related subjects who propagate his themes. They aren't interested in other research or sources. They're on the payroll.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> So who IYHO is lying. Icke or his sources ? Kathy O'Brien and the countless people hes interviewed ? WTF is really going on here ? Is he being too candid ? Having interviewed such sources how could he have played it better IYO ?<br><br> Ive read Jeff say that he is taking people too seriously. And I should say at this point, that had I never read Jeff, I would never have even contemplated Icke. <br><br> And it is precisely due to the combined corroborative evidence that they present, that I can take the whole Idea of RA seriously.<br><br> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>One central enabler of evil is of course our inability to accept all that humans are capable of.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br> I have personally witnessed that evil in Iraq, Palestine, etc.<br><br> I have heard about it in WW2, with the native Americans, the Aboriginees, and any number of other "Inferiors."<br><br> Courtesy of free thinkers and the internet, and the incontovertible EVIDENCE, I have been persuaded.<br><br> Ickes speaks passionately against such evil.<br><br> My mind is truly confused at this stage lol.<br><br> HELLLPPP. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Thanks to Icke

Postby Sweejak » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:59 am

I've already said it. I have little problem with the reptile idea, I just stuff it in either the 'myth file' or the 'Hmmm file'. So what. There are many compelling myths that speak to your right brain louder than any left brain verbiage and ever do. On the other hand I have a trusted friend who has worked with and around the elite and claims that besides having what he describes as 'dead eyes' he has seen one of their faces change in front of his very eyes. Hmmm indeed. <br><br>You know the cliche, "we have met the enemy and he is us". Everybody understands it but nobody seems to investigate it.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>One central enabler of evil is of course our inability to accept all that humans are capable of.<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I've taken a shine to Paul Levy and his article The Madness of George Bush. Give it a read it is a bit of a mash, using a lot of Jung and some mystical physics.<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.awakeninthedream.com/georgew.html">www.awakeninthedream.com/georgew.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: More 'Discredit' RI Claims -- Regular Feature?

Postby Starman » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:13 am

What a lame, tired refrain -- <br><br>The same post you provide as 'proof' that David Icke is insane also lumps in the Lockerbie Bombing and OKC and Flight 800 -- So, you accept the official explanation for these events? The article clearly lumps anyone who disagrees as wacky 'conpirationalists' -- yeah, I'm really impressed by such a rigorous scholarship.<br><br>Where's the evidence supporting the claim that Icke is promoting hate, or that he's a pro-Bush shill? He's talking about what he sees as right-wing conspiracies -- not because he supports them.<br><br>I mean, WHAT????<br>Or have the standards of reason suddenly flipped, and now when I criticize the Iraq war I'm actually supporting it? That's the 'logic' of this article -- it's as sneaky, underhanded and vile in its way as the dirty-tricks Rove has used for political advantage. <br><br>As far as Icke's Lizard-claims discreditting RA victims -- Look, if people are SO stupid that they're going to be convinced about one issue because of another unrelated issue that appears ludicrous, then they're just incredibly stupid people who are glomming-onto the flimsiest reason going to excuse their own moral cowardice and intellectual laziness. Icke isn't an expert on RA -- why would ANYBODY be persuaded on such fickle, ridiculous and ultimately self-serving reasoning about Lizards, that another thing isn't true? Those are the same kinda people and the same kinda 'logic' that uses the lack of Tunnels beneath McMartin to 'prove' that child sexual abuse isn't endemic. If there's a fault, its in the elite's deliberate dumbing-down education standards and killing critical thinking. I very much believe there IS and has been a conspiracy to make civil society weak-minded and incapable of thinking for themselves.<br><br>And Seventhson -- Where do you get off making such broad generalized statements about everybody based on what, three folks who happen to post and disagree with you on this topic? -- Where do you get off insisting that your criticism of Icke is the last word, and anybody who doesn't agree with you is also incapable of clear-thinking and so must like Icke be insane? <br><br>One example the article proposed re: OKC.<br>OKC was a set-up, as anybody who looked at the information about it could see there was WAY more that didn't meet the eye. Just recently a report has come out in which Intelligence insiders blew the whistle on a horribly bungled investigation that was deliberately bolloxed for political purposes.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.ktok.com/cc-common/feeds/view.php?feed_id=135&feed=/local.html&instance=1&article_id=25795">www.ktok.com/cc-common/fe...e_id=25795</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>"Ten years after the Oklahoma City bombing, a published report says several former high ranking Department of Justice officials who want to remain anonymous claim there was a coverup of the attack which killed 168 persons.<br> The story is carried by the McCurtain Daily Gazette in Idabel whose reporter J-D Cash<br>has spent a decade investigating the bombing and its ties to Elohim City, a religious<br>and white separatist compound in eastern Oklahoma.<br> "We were put into contact with some very, very high level former Department of Justice officials who have seen about as much of this coverup of the Oklahoma City bombing they can stomach," said Cash in an interview with KTOK News.<br> He explained the once powerful officials in the DOJ believe the story is coming out because of the lawsuit and freedom of information fight between Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue and the FBI. Trentadue seeks the bombing records to show his brother Kenneth, an inmate in the Oklahoma City Federal Transfer Center in the summer of 1995 was beaten to death as federal agents interrogated him about the bombing. The attorney believes his brother closely fit the description of a suspect who had ties to bomber Tim McVeigh.<br> The former law officers say the story will show the government was aware of German national Andreas Strassmeier who allegedly help plan the bombing while he lived at Elohim City.<br> "He was providing information to the German government. The Justice department would not allow the FBI to do the type of investigation of Elohim before the bombing they felt like they should," added Cash. The officials also say the bombing occurred because the sting was 'bungled' by the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms."<br>****<br>The article's premise is clearly anti- everything that Icke writes about. On most of the issues the article points to as 'proof' of Icke being a conspiracy-flake nut-job, there's plenty of evidence to back him up -- many of those same topics re: false flag ops have been discussed on this very board -- Haven't you been paying attention?<br><br>I don't like the rude characterization made of people who have posted their defense of Icke. Nothing wrong about stating why you think Icke isn't credible, why do you resent people speaking their mind on issues where they think he IS credible? <br><br>So-- Like why is your hate of the Bush et al. evil criminals and war-profiteers 'good', but Icke's presumed hate of the right-wing criminals 'bad'?<br><br>And the thing about impugning Icke for selling $67 Lecture Tickets and $50 Video/book sales -- Isn't that pretty trivial compared with the $10,000 plate dinners the Repubs hold -- let alone the hundreds of millions of dirty money they regularly launder to pay for their PR propaganda stunts. <br><br>Like the above, what I object to is the article's speciousness and rude character-attack, managing to lump all the issues together as 'obviously' lacking all credibility.<br><br>On the one hand you say the best disinfo is mostly true with a few lies thrown in -- but with Icke, everything he posts you say is wacky.<br><br>Well, with the examples of bombings listed as NOT being as cut-and-dried as the author suggests, HIS credibility is gone. Why should I believe ANYTHING he says -- He's already shown he has an establishment agenda in not challenging the officially-recieved wisdom about what we 'should' believe as good 'lil citizens.<br><br>In short, the article's agenda is clearly to discredit anyone who questions the status-quo.<br><br>I found the article at least as badly-written and clumsily-reasoned and poorly-argued as the author apparently thinks Icke's work is -- some irony, eh?<br><br>Starman<br><br>"Wondered where the thinking people were."<br><br>Did you actually SAY that?<br>Whathefu????????<br><br>Well, gosh, I'm so terribly sorry I haven't met your demanding standards, Sir ... <p></p><i></i>
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amazing piece.

Postby slimmouse » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:50 am

<br> Sweejak.<br><br> Never read Jung, or any of the big wig psychologists, but if that article doesnt get any reasonably balanced person thinking, then I surrender.<br><br> Thankyou. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: amazing piece.

Postby Sweejak » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:26 am

Oh I'm glad you liked it. <br>The salient point for me is that it illuminates and pushes things past mere Bush bashing, something I see so much of, and to be honest I engage in it myself. Of course the idea of collective consciousness (or perhaps unconsciousness) which is similar to the field theories of physics has some legs for me too. I think everybody intuitively "knows" that there is a collective consciousness and I think everybody sees something in Bush that is somehow also within them. You know also that someone on the board mentioned that we do have a reptile brain. Heh. Anyway this is hard to take because when I see his face or hear his voice I have a churning physical reaction I actually feel nauseous. I know others do too.<br><br>The other thing that Levy makes urgent is that this is a spiritual battle and I think it is, convinced I guess after bashing my head at the wall of politics. In fact given this round of fascism and the freaky technologies at it's disposal I think it is our only chance, anything less will merely swing the pendulum.<br><br>About collective consciousness on the internet there are some attempts to map it. Safe Haven occasionally posts results of their web bot scans.<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://urbansurvival.com/simplebots.htm">urbansurvival.com/simplebots.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br> And <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblog/C374124257/E543406075/index.html">homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/i...index.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: amazing piece.

Postby toscaveritas » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:40 am

I can only agree. I've also concluded that we need a global shift of consciousness, or what some people say, an 'awakening' of sorts. I agree that we 'know' but are filled with so much reptilian/survival obsession, that we ignore the obvious. I've been told that I should read Carl Jung, and I suppose I will start very soon (after I finish 'The Biggest Secret') <br><br>thanks for amazing posts.i'm learning so much here!<br><br>tosca <p></p><i></i>
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Malignant Egophrenia: Our Modern Collective Psychosis

Postby Starman » Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:58 am

Sweejak:<br><br>Truly a revolutionary, eye-opening hypothesis and analysis of our epochal moment, when we are mass-afflicted by a spiritual illness. There's enormous power in being aware of this disease, acknowledging its etiology as located within our collective psyche, naming it, and recognizing the potential for our participation in creating a healthy, dynamic, positive and vibrant reality through learning to integrate the literal with the symbolic.<br><br>There's so MANY ways these ideas relate to events and phenomena we discuss on this board, as the 'function' and locus and meaning of UFOs, and the extent to which a greatly flawed version of an 'alternative reality' imperfectly manifested by the global elites and the BFEE confounds true social reform according to wise, compassionate and enduring values of social justice, peace and human rights.<br><br>I first saw this article perhaps early this year and was immediately taken by the comprehensive, insightful ideas it proposed -- Thanks for posting it (Someone posted it recently also here, perhaps you? Sorry I didn't comment then but got distracted or something ...)<br><br>There's so many important concepts here that require some reflection to fully appreciate. While the whole article is so well-written it's hard to isolate those parts that are most important or meaningful. However, I was esp. struck by the following sections that discuss how this disease is non-local, self-organizing and self-perpetuating -- a truly field-event disease that encourages psychosocial delusion -- which is why it's also so incredibly dangerous. A type of spiritual/psychologcal 'virus'?<br>Starman<br><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.awakeninthedream.com/georgew.html">www.awakeninthedream.com/georgew.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>--excerpt--<br>THE DISEASE IS NON-LOCAL<br><br>Being a field phenomenon, malignant egophrenia is non-local in nature, which means that it is not bound by the limitations of time or space. Being non-local, this disease pervades and underlies the entire field and can therefore manifest anywhere, through anyone and at any moment. The disease's non-local nature makes the question of who has the disease irrelevant, as we all have it in potential. It is more a question of whether or not we are aware of our susceptibility to fall prey to the disease. This awareness itself serves as an immunization that protects us from the pernicious effects of the illness, thereby allowing us to be of genuine help to others. <br><br>Bush, like all of us, is both a manifestation of this deeper field and simultaneously an agent effecting this field. He’s become so fully taken over by the disease, all the while not suspecting a thing, that he’s become a "carrier" for this deadly disease, thus infecting the field around him. He’s become a portal through which the field around him "warps" in such a way as to feed and support his pathogenic process. A non-local, reciprocally co-arising and interdependent field of unconscious denial and cover-up gets constellated around Bush to enable and protect his pathology. People who support Bush are actually complicit with and enabling Bush’s madness in a co-dependent, self-reinforcing feedback loop that is ‘closed,’ which is to say it is insular and not open to any feedback from the ‘real’ world. <br><br>Bush supporters are not merely disinterested in seeing that they are in denial of reality; on the contrary, they actively don’t want to look at this, which is to say they resist self-reflection at all costs. Bush and his supporters perversely interpret any feedback from the real world which reflects back their unconsciousness as itself evidence that proves the rightness of their viewpoint. All of Bush’s supporters mutually reinforce each other’s unconscious resistance to such a degree that a collective, interdependent field of impenetrability gets collectively conjured up by them that literally resists consciousness. <br><br>People who don't recognize Bush's illness and support him are unconsciously colluding with and enabling in the co-creation of the pathological field that is incarnating itself into the human family. People who support Bush become unwitting agents through which this non-local disease feeds and replicates itself. By supporting Bush they are collaborating with and becoming parts of the greater, interconnected and self-organizing field of the disease. <br><br>The situation is very analogous to when seemingly good, normal, loving Germans supported Hitler, believing he was a good leader trying to help them. The German people didn't realize that the virulent pathogen malignant egophrenia had taken possession of Hitler and was incarnating itself through him. By not seeing this and supporting Hitler, they became agents used by this non-local, deadly disease to propagate itself. This was a collective psychosis, and this is what is taking place in our country right now. <br><br>This is exactly what Jung was warning us about when he said "The gigantic catastrophes that threaten us today are not elemental happenings of a physical or biological order, but psychic events. To a quite terrifying degree we are threatened by wars and revolutions which are nothing other than psychic epidemics. At any moment several millions of human beings may be smitten with a new madness, and then we shall have another world war or devastating revolution. Instead of being at the mercy of wild beasts, earthquakes, landslides, and inundations, modern man is battered by the elemental forces of his own psyche."<br><br>THE LIE<br><br>It is not that the threat of terrorism is unreal, but that Bush's policies in dealing with terrorism are actually fueling the fire. The way Bush is fighting terrorism is actually the very act which is invoking and creating more of it in the first place. It is as if he is fighting against his own shadow, which is a battle that can never be won. Bush is so dissociated from the darkness within himself that he splits off from it and tries to destroy it. Bush’s inner process, because of the position of power he finds himself in, is getting dreamed up and played out on the world stage. ME disease is unique in that it collapses the boundary between inner and outer. Egophrenia is an inner disease of the soul that expresses itself via the medium of the outside world. We could even say that the inner core of egophrenia actually in-forms and gives shape to the outer universe so as to express itself. <br><br>By creating more of the very thing he is fighting against, Bush is enacting the repetition compulsion of the traumatized soul. In Bush’s case, it is the repetition compulsion gone awry, to daemonic proportions, getting acted out on the world stage. To quote noted psychologist Rollo May, the daemonic is "any natural function which has the power to take over the whole person [or whole nation]…..the daemonic can be either creative or destructive [i.e, demonic]…..violence is the daemonic gone awry." <br><br>The daemonic aspect of the disease develops a certain autonomy and literally possesses the person or group, as it is self-generating, self-perpetuating and self-organizing in nature, like a closed and negative feedback loop. The person who is taken over doesn't suspect a thing, as the field secretly conspires and colludes with and enables their psychosis. For example, Bush, in his delusion, imagines he is divinely guided. His supporters want to believe this to feed their own adolescent fantasies of wanting to have a divinely inspired leader to take care of and protect them. Because of this need they invest, so to speak, in Bush’s delusion, which just confirms to Bush all the more that he indeed is God’s instrument. Bush and his followers are co-dependently and reciprocally feeding and supporting each other’s unconscious narcissistic needs in a truly pathological, and ultimately self-destructive co-dependent relationship. <br><br>At the root of Bush's pathology is a deep dissociation. Like the terrorists, he has split-off from his own darker half, projecting the shadow ‘out there,’ and then tries to destroy this dis-owned shadow. By projecting the shadow onto each other, Bush and the terrorists are each seeing their own shadow reflected in the other. They see each other as criminals, as the incarnation of evil. By projecting the shadow like this, they locate the evil ‘out there,’ which ensures that they don't have to recognize the evil within themselves. It's interesting to note that the inner meaning of the word mirror is ’shadow holder.’ Ironically, by fighting against their own shadow in this way, they become possessed by the very thing they are trying to destroy, thereby perpetuating a never-ending cycle of violence. To quote C. G. Jung, one of the greatest psychologists of the twentieth century, "The psychological rule says that when an inner situation is not made conscious, it happens outside, as fate. That is to say, when the individual remains undivided [not in touch with both the light AND dark parts of themselves] and does not become conscious of his inner opposite, the world must perforce act out the conflict and be torn into opposing halves."<br><br>Jung simply refers to projecting the shadow as “the lie." It’s interesting to note that one of the inner meanings of the word Devil is ‘the liar.’ Projecting the shadow, to quote Jung, "deprives us of the capacity to deal with evil." Jung stresses the importance of consciously developing what he calls our "imagination for evil," which is to consciously recognize our potential for evil. This recognition means embracing and integrating our dark side into our wholeness, which is made up of both light and dark. If we have no imagination for evil, to quote Jung, "evil has us in its grip…….for only the fool can permanently disregard the conditions of his own nature. In fact, this negligence is the best means of making him an instrument of evil." <br><br>By projecting the shadow, Bush is unwittingly being a conduit for the deepest, archetypal evil to possess him from behind, beneath his conscious awareness, and to act itself out through him. At the same time, ironically enough, he identifies with the light and imagines that he is divinely inspired. To quote Jung, a person in a position of power who has become dissociated like Bush “even runs the grave risk of believing he has a Messianic mission, and forces tyrannous doctrines upon his fellow-beings.” He then believes that any action he desires is justified in the name of God, as he can rationalize it as being God's will. Unable to self-reflect, he is convinced of the rightness of his viewpoint, which he considers non-negotiable. This is a very dangerous situation, as Bush has become unconsciously identified with and possessed by the hero, or savior archetype. This figure is religious in nature, as it derives from the transpersonal, archetypal dimension of the collective unconscious. Being inflated with the hero archetype, he (archetypically) wants to save the world from evil and to liberate the planet. <br><br>This is the height of irony since, in reality, Bush is acting as an unwitting conduit for evil by instigating wars and taking away people's freedoms. This incongruity brings into bold relief the severe schizoid split that characterizes Bush's condition. His inflation blinds him to the real consequences of his actions and is one of the easier to recognize aspects of his pathology. Being inflated due to an unconscious identification with an archetype is, in essence, an expression of having forfeited one's humanity, a state in which humility becomes impossible. <br><br>Bush has fallen into a state that is the embodiment of arrogance. Succumbing to the temptation of power, Bush has become corrupt, which is the inevitable consequence when one prefers power over truth. He has fallen into a vicious cycle where he has become addicted to power. Bush and his regime are compulsively driven to do everything and anything they can to hold onto the position of power they find themselves in. Not only do they not see the depraved nature of the situation they have fallen into, they don't want to see it. Being in the role of having power, there is a counter-incentive to self-reflect, which just reinforces the strength of the pathogen. <br><br>The inner name of ME disease is ‘Mad Emperor’ disease, as it is what happens when a person in a position of power falls prey to and become seduced by that power. As Al Gore points out, people who are after dominance and power “satiate their hunger for more power still by striking a Faustian bargain. And as always happens- sooner or later- to those who shake hands with the devil, they find out too late that what they have given up in the bargain is their soul.” <br><br>At the root of Bush’s process is an unwillingness and seeming inability to experience his own sense of sin, guilt and shame, as if he is afraid of being exposed, of being found out. He’s clearly unable to feel any remorse and experience his own weakness and vulnerability, his own sense of failure. This threatens his narcissism too much. One aspect of Bush’s pathology is ‘malignant narcissism,’ as he reacts sadistically to others who mirror back his guilt and don’t support and enable his narcissism. <br><br> This inability to experience his shame and guilt sets in motion a self-perpetuating cycle of denial, cover-up and projecting the shadow, all of which are based on a lie. Bush then falls into an endless loop of hiding from his own lie, which is to say, from himself. This process allows Bush to become a conduit for egophrenia to take him over and incarnate its malignant aspect through him. <br><br>Jung comments on this resistance to self-reflection and endless cycle of self- deception by saying "Hysterical self-deceivers, and ordinary ones too, have at all times understood the art of misusing everything so as to avoid the demands and duties of life, and above all to shirk the duty of confronting themselves. They pretend to be seekers after God in order not to have to face the truth that they are ordinary egoists."<br><br>Falling victim to one's own deception as Bush has can have a very mesmerizing and gripping effect on others, as he appears so convinced of what he is saying and is able to project this conviction. To quote Jung, "Nothing has such a convincing effect as a lie one invents and believes oneself, or an evil deed or intention whose righteousness one regards as self-evident…..things only become dangerous when the pathological liar is taken seriously by a wider public. Like Faust, he is bound to make a pact with the devil and thus slips off the straight path.” Bush has the seductive coherence of someone who is fanatically identified, like the typical fundamentalist, with only one side of an inherently two-sided polarity. Thomas Merton, commenting on the case of the obviously demented Nazi war criminal, Adolf Eichmann, points out "One of the most disturbing facts that came out in the Eichmann trial was that a psychiatrist examined him and pronounced him perfectly sane."<br><br> A key feature of malignant egophrenia is that it is very hard to recognize when someone is a carrier, because the person can seem so normal and even endearing. The person afflicted can be very ‘charming’ and have a certain type of charisma that can entrance those who don't see through their subterfuge. Concerned about nothing other than himself, a person stricken with egophrenia is in reality indifferent to other people’s suffering, all the while professing his compassion, like a wolf in sheep’s clothing. <br><br>Just like Hitler struck a chord deep in the German unconscious, Bush is touching something very deep in the American psyche. Bush is acting out on the world stage an under-developed psychological process that deals simplistically with issues such as good and evil. It’s as if he hasn't grown out of and fully differentiated from the realm of mythic, archetypal fantasy that is typical of early adolescence. This immature aspect of Bush's process speaks to and resonates with those voters who support him, as it is a reflection of their own under-developed inner process. <br><br>Whereas Hitler’s evil was more overt in its cruelty and sadism, Bush’s dark side is much more hidden and disguised, which makes it particularly dangerous. People who vote for Bush are somehow blind to what is very obvious to others. It’s as if they’ve become hypnotized and fallen under the spell that Bush is casting. Why would people vote for someone stricken with malignant egophrenia? People who support Bush are suggestible and susceptible to the same malady that Bush is embodying, as if they have a predisposition for it (based on their own trauma, dissociated psyche and tendency to project the shadow). Supporting Bush is a sign that a person not only doesn't see the deadly illness that is incarnating itself through Bush, but is an expression that this disease has taken up residence in their being and is using them to do its bidding.<br><br>A COLLECTIVE PSYCHOSIS<br><br>It is a very dangerous situation we are in- because of the position of power Bush and the religious right find themselves in, they can literally dream up and create the very apocalypse that they are imagining is prophesized, like a Self-fulfilling prophecy. In a perversely self-reinforcing feedback-loop, the more death and destruction happens, the more this confirms to them the truth that their deluded end-time scenario is actually happening as prophesized. In a diabolical self-validating vicious cycle, Bush and the religious right are ignoring the role they are playing in creating exactly what they are using as evidence to prove the rightness of their viewpoint. ME disease is a world where up is down, as its flawless illogic is convoluted and inverted at its core. <br><br>Malignant egophrenia is crazy-making. It induces a very hard to recognize form of insanity. When we fall prey to egophrenia, we are unable to recognize that we are taken over, as we become bewitched by our own projections, accusing other people of doing what we ourselves are doing. For example, Bush is talking about himself when he accuses Saddam Hussein of being “a man who has defied the world,” and “a man who has made the United Nations look foolish.” Part of the disease is that when we point at it and call it by its true name - as being a form of insanity called ignorance - people who are stricken with the disease will see us as the one's who are crazy. Unless we recognize the insidious nature of this disease, there is a crazy-making field around it that will make us a part of itself. Collective psychosis is like that. <br><br>There is only one reason why the mainstream psychiatric community is not studying this contagious psychosis as it spreads through Bush, his regime, and the surrounding field. They are not studying this disease because they haven't yet recognized that the disease even exists. To the extent that any of us are unaware that this non-local pathogen pervades the field we become hooked by it through our own unconscious blind-spot. By not recognizing the nature of the disease, the mental health community becomes its unwitting agents, helping the disease to propagate. What clearer sign do we need of a collective psychosis than when our mental health system itself, whose job it is to monitor such phenomenon, not only doesn't recognize that there is a collective psychosis running rampant in our society, but are themselves infected with it?<br><br>***<br>I wish I could say more about this now, but I'm beat and not feeling especially sharp. Just wanted to acknowledge this article and encourage folks to check-it-out. The conclusion on how to 'address' this disease could use some creative development IMO.<br>Thanks again!<br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Malignant Egophrenia: Our Modern Collective Psychosis

Postby dbeach » Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:40 am

meterial pursuits got us into this mess..the worship of false idols like money,power,greed,..and of course the worship of celebrity..sports,entertainment,politicians,rock stars,CEOs..,millionaires<br><br>the worship of the material created this mess..the grand scheme of the controllers.<br><br>Spiritual solutions can expose it and solve it for us.<br><br>insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results..<br><br>from Einstein <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Malignant Egophrenia: Our Modern Collective Psychosis

Postby Sweejak » Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:11 am

Thanks for putting up the excerpts it's been a while since I read them and I can only say that they make even more sense to me now. It describes and explains a number of things, from Bush's messianic sayings (god told me to strike Sadaam and I did) to certain people who "actively don’t want to look at this, which is to say they resist self-reflection at all costs". How many times have I encountered that. Even when it is so freaking obvious that everyone must, simply must know. For instance Levy says: "Bush's policies in dealing with terrorism are actually fueling the fire. The way Bush is fighting terrorism is actually the very act which is invoking and creating more of it in the first place." Not to mention POG2, Rumsfeld's brilliant scheme to fight terrorism by stimulating it. How do people justify this? I usually get something along the lines that "war is hell, or it's hard, really hard work." which only transforms people with a crystalline hard fervor that says "this must be done", "we must stand together and be strong... for the fatherland", a self righteous cruelty that makes them just like the nazi's, the zionists or any other similar. Of course the lie manifests when they scream the loudest when something equally hard and brutal is done to them. The peevish hypocrisy of Rumsfeld bitching about the Geneva conventions when photographs of US captured were shown concurrent with US photos of hogtied and bagged "enemy combatants" at Gitmo. WTF!<br><br>The article has for me the ultimate comparison of the Bush era to the Nazi era. "The situation is very analogous to when seemingly good, normal, loving Germans supported Hitler, believing he was a good leader trying to help them."<br><br>What do you think of the possibilities that this is all known and deeply understood by the .... what to call them... the Controllers, and that this field phenomena is being used by them for a satanic purpose? Also Levy says that W has been perhaps damaged and that "Bush's pathology is a deep dissociation" and "Bush is enacting the repetition compulsion of the traumatized soul." Why do I think of the images of W's bruised face.. the Pretzel Incident? Or the bizarre behavior he displayed when Andrew Card told him of the jets hitting the towers? Or the hurried flight to Offut Airbase?<br><br>Is this just more projection? I suppose the danger in these ideas is that we will fall into inactive self examination while the agenda presses on. Levy addresses that in another article called Spiritual Informed Political Activism:<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.awakeninthedream.com/activism.html">www.awakeninthedream.com/activism.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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