Quantum Physics in Action

by **Dreams End** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:20 am

I can't say much more 4911 b/c there's just no way in forum like this and for a non-professional like me to know what's oing on. Paramedics will not diagnoise a psychiatric condition...you cant' do it that quickly. And now you speak of "alters" don't let my own experience lead you. Rages could come from bipolar illness as well...and the fact that it's usually winter, that's a tough time for some when you add whatever is going on to lack of UV light. So, no way to know if she's DID....or any of the other things I mentioned. You'll need to accept the limits of your role in this. No matter what you decide is the appropriate amount of energy to allow yourself to spend on her, you still can't "fix" her. For suicide...first I'd have crisis line numbers always handy. It's okay to talk to a suicidal person about suicide...it won't "cause" it. You can ask if she feels she's going to hurt herself and if so, does she have a plan. Does she have the means to carry out that plan....etc. But you can't be there to guard against this 24 hours a day. Let her know that you are concerned....make sure she has a local crisis line number available to call assuming there is one where you are. I suppose you could research therapists a bit and find a possible good match and then tell her you know she doesn't want one, but you are worried and here's a number if she'd like to use it, etc. Beyond that I hope you'll find good support for yourself. Therapy would be excellent...if nothing else a trained therapist can probably help you make sense of her behavior. In addition, I don't see how things can continue as they are for you. I use the word "manipulative" advisedly (in her mind, her behavior may not be about manipulating at all) but from your perspective, she's pushing all the right buttons and keeping you off balance.

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:56 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The smallest slight might get blown way out of proportion. One little failure on her part would be evidence that she is worthless. Very black and white thinking patterns.<hr></blockquote> I know taking one little part of a thread and responding to it like its all you said can be a bit offputting, so I don't want to just be doing that. This is exactly the kind of bullshit behaviour that someone needs to take responsibility for and stop. BPD my arse, its emotional laziness. Being so obsessed with your own importance that every little failure is an affront to the universe is pissweak behaviour, it is in the, quantum or not, very real sense creating your own victimhood. DE You said you refused to repond with violence to a former partner, when they provoked you, and this broke the cycle of behaviour with confusion the result. A. Well done, some people who use some shamanic worldviews would say that at that point you prevented an entity or thought form from feeding off an established behaviour pattern and the energy it releases. B. A similar thing is happening with your BPD example. C. What i am talking about in A. is a metaphor for a process. A person who engages in the behaviour you describes need to understand what they are doing, then they will want to stop it, IMlimitedO. It is an unreasonable projection onto the other persons life, expecting so much of that other person is unfair, and it is simply engaging in a repeat of the same stuff that keeps a loser losing. IE a winning by losing life script. By creating an unreasonable expectation of perfection and then placing an inordinate value on the importance of any failure to achieve that perfection you are setting up an unwinnable mental game. Don't play that game. If someone has their priorities that out of whack, by all means help them rebalance. But you can't take that shit - this is not an easy path. There is plenty of validity in what Lils and others said. But present behaviour is not a past abuse. You, an abuse victim, me everyone else, we are all, from our own perspective, here and now. That is where the action is happening here and now - here and now. A major tendency to live in various pasts and futures afflicts us all, it can even be useful quite often, but at times it is very bad. This is the responsibility thing I am talking about. Not necessarily resposibility for going somewhere you knew you probably shouldn't or something.(tho coming to terms with this helps some sexual abuse victims). There is no way a 4 year old can be responsible for anothers power over them. they have no choices at any point in the chain of events. BTW The knives and everything else, been there. No easy answers, especially for me, as I will never call the cops. On principle. And violence is not an option. These days its all roses,(no really<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> ) but we had some hard times. And so have others. But ultimayely, expecting high standards out of someone, and fully believing they can achieve them, and supporting that seperately, gives them nd you a framework for controlling painful behaviours. in the context: "The best revenge is living well."

by **4911** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:51 am

Joe feel free to interject - you appear to be coming from an antithesis to DE's thesis which leads to a midway that could be useful if we all work it out in a sensible way. Please, neither of you should omit information you might be harboring. Feel free. And thank you very much both for even taking some time to give me your thoughts. BTW happy 4th if your americans Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 7/4/06 10:08 am

by **blanc** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:25 pm

I left this thread Joe bcos there did seem to be some messy cross purposes, and tenets that I could never, ever support - (ie the stuff about victims being responsible for their victimisation etc.), and I felt I'd become persona non grata in the boys discussion. r.a. is the reason I do visit and write on this board. I both wish I did not have the evidence and knowledge that it exists, and wish I could just post that evidence, case after case after case, until (I dream now) no-one would say 'I don't believe this shit" . Several times I've thought, I'll leave the board, I'm preaching to the converted, everyone knows. Then a sudden rash of disbelievers or debunkers turn up. Tell me, out of interest, how is it that you can accept the story 4911 related - woman pulls over to roadside, kidnapped and raped etc. and not accept 'ritual abuse'? Is it that pesky little word 'ritual'? Or is it the victim thing - that the survivors of ra are so often left utterly mind-shattered, and therefore 'obviously crazy fantasists"? Can you accept the existence of a criminal network, producing sadistic porn? The existence of a criminal people trafficking and prostiitution industry? The existence of high and medium level blackmail of govt officials politicos bankers etc? Where do you think the women and children used in these come from? Do you think they volunteer for degradation, torture, rape, death, desecration finally, or get paid? Do you think its all done with that clever morphing stuff? Sorry, please please just explain to me what it is that you, obviously a reasonable man, can't make your mind up about in r.a./mc. I'm not being sarcastic btw - I'd like to know what is behind the undecided word. ps - the other bit - about not supporting endlessly overdemanding behaviour -- very very difficult, but best advice came from a non practising psychiatrist friend of mine "don't feed the madness'' and "follow your heart". This I have found a useful crutch at times and pass it on in case it helps.

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:10 pm

blanc if you are referring to this: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>BTW My mind is still undecided on the ritual abuse mind control thing. I have never seen any direct evidence for it, tho some things do make me wonder, and the process of creating "alters" or "altars", or whatever they are called makes a lot of sense to me, from what I have read about it. So I only talk about what I have experienced and can understand with some level of certainty, regarding this specific subject.<hr></blockquote> I didn't mean that I don't think its real or doesn't happen, as I said many things have made me wonder and the stuff on RI is enough to provide a fair start at getting evidence. But I was talking about my life, tho there are people who i wonder about. But the ones I trust enough to talk to, and feel that I would not be imposing on them are 1000 miles away and I have barely spoken to them in years. So for me to confirm it in my life that way is not possible. And in that context anything I say about dealing with trauma or abuse is NOT in the context of ritual abuse, although it may apply to those cases. If you were to put a gun to my head and say "tell me what you really think deep down does it happen", I would probably say yes But intuition is one thing, to be rigourous about it (as much as I can) I would have to say "don't take what I am saying in the context of RA". We are talking about real people and real lives and so although what I say may not be popular, (or right) about my attitude to this, I have a duty to be fair dinkum about what i am saying. And it is NOT how to deprogram ritual abuse victims. It is how to deal with traumatised people on a day to day, real life and real respect basis. maybe I am blundering blindfloded and backwards through a minefield but i still haven't trod on any mines. So what I say has to be right by my standards. And thats why i had to seperate what I was saying from the ritual abuse concept. Cos If I really go there I will say some spun out stuff. But blanc you keep doing what you are doing. Please. I may not always agree with you on some details or whatever, but don't take what I posted as discouragement in your personal battle with the whole mess. Take it as the opposite. Sometimes I apply excessive scepticism even to stuff I think is valid, simply cos my interactions with the world also include a world most people think doesn't exist, or belongs only to nuts and psychos. I can't claim those things as evidence. Anyway take care.

by **LilyPatToo** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:38 pm

Joe said, <blockquote>Quote:<hr>BTW My mind is still undecided on the ritual abuse mind control thing. I have never seen any direct evidence for it, tho some things do make me wonder, and the process of creating "alters" or "altars", or whatever they are called makes a lot of sense to me, from what I have read about it. So I only talk about what I have experienced and can understand with some level of certainty, regarding this specific subject.<hr></blockquote> That’s sensible. I do have direct personal evidence for its existence, though it’s mostly circumstantial and subjective and wouldn’t stand up in court, despite there being a LOT of it, all consistent. And I still have a tremendous internal resistance to the ritual abuse part of it, mainly due to having no clear, unambiguous memories of it myself. But I’ve met and interacted with others who believe they have very definitely been involved in it. And I once helped a woman escape from such a cult, years back before I realized that not only was I personally involved, but that it was she who had had quite a hand in my current enslavement. So, 4911 asked if there’s a “list of symtoms” and while I’ve seen a few floating around in the ethers of the internet, I was skeptical of a lot of the supposed signs--they could have been of other things, as well. There’s a lot of (understandable, IMHO) hysteria around this subject and most of us survivors are paranoid as hell, so it kind of follows. Here are my initial questions that I ask a person who’s trying to figure out if their lives have ever been touched by a trauma-based mind control program: Do you have “missing time”? Do people claim you said/did things of which you have no recollection? Do you have nonexistant “boundaries” emotionally speaking? Do you suffer from persistent, life-long extremely low self-esteem? Do you have a relative or family friend connected to any of the military or civilian intelligence agencies? Do you remember being sexually exploited by wealthy or Mob-connected individuals? Did you have contact as a child with any white supremicist groups? There are lots more, but that’s where I begin. And I never forget that plain old mental/emotional/physical child abuse can produce many of those conditions...and do, unfortunately. DID/MPD is not nearly as rare as our extensively compromised mental health field would like us to believe. But there always seems to be a link to the military or civilian intel ops guys/gals in the MC cases. In my case, it was a dashing OSS agent who married into the family and with whom my mother was quite enthralled. LilyPat

by **Dreams End** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:15 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>This is exactly the kind of bullshit behaviour that someone needs to take responsibility for and stop.<hr></blockquote> People with "bpd" (whatever value that diagnosis...bio and I were talking about how similar it seems to DID) but also DID respond to "triggers". Sometimes it can be something obvious...a stressful event. Sometimes something more subtle (with my wife, a sweatshirt sent from her mom that says "Mom loves me best." It could even be a smell or a taste...something that connects with a negative past experience. When someone is triggered, especially before they've learned to recognize those triggers and start recognizing the pattern, a form of "programming" (with a small 'p'...not meaning by mc types at the moment) takes over. It's not conscious. this doesn't mean the person's thinking process is flawed. It's often that emotions experienced under these circumstances are recognized as extreme later. But it is not something the person has control of....though they can learn to better control these reactions. However, triggers are surprising...you never know what one might be. Some with my wife seem pretty obvious...if she doesn't know where her daughter is, for example. Seriously, let's stop blaming the victims here. I mean literally now, not "abstractly." These patterns are well known and linked to abuse. They are not a matter of the person "deciding" to be this way. They are not a matter of lack of will, though it will take great will (but also support) to start changing these patterns. "bpd" whatever it might ultimately mean as a diagnosis, is considered the hardest diagnosis to deal with...very limited success...though that is changing with therapies like Dialectical Behavioral therapy (which isn't nearly as intellectually oriented as it sounds.) Bio told me about that. So let's keep focused on the causes of these disorders...in a vast majority of the cases, it is abuse and childhood trauma. And no matter one's philosophy (which I don't even want to get into again) about how it comes about, there are lots of things that are known about how they manifest in people and what are some effective ways of dealing with them. Now, as for "breaking the cycle" with that former girlfriend...there's a REASON she's a former girlfriend. I didn't know nearly as much as I do now, but one can take the flying off the handle only so long. I wish I was still in touch...but you know, maybe she's found happiness and hasn't had to unearth much about her past. I lived with her for four years and I never new much about her past. The little bit I did now is very disturbing alongside what I know now. (By the way, has anyone ever heard much about the actor Glenn Ford? She was hooked up with him before I knew her and I never did get what that was about. I think she was sort of a consort...maybe even paid. She was always vague.) So my refusal to be violent de-escalated things occasionally, sometimes it escalated them. In general, it didn't "fix her problems" and that would take much, much work. I'm hoping that maybe as you get older (she'd be about 50 now...somewhat older than I was) and if you survive in tact...even if you don't unearth the tough stuff maybe some of the effects lessen and you can enjoy a nice life. I hope so, anyway. (LOOONG ago, in RI time, when I first started posting here I started a thread about weird phone calls. A couple of years ago I tried to locate this woman online. I tracked her to a city in Washington State. I actually dropped some cash to do it with one of those online database services. A very short while I get a call that goes like this (obviously, they used my real first name) "Is this Dream's End?" "Yes." "Hey Dream...how ya feeeeelin'?" Hysterical laughter and then he hung up. I received two more calls from the same number in the next couple of days. One of them was a very long nonresponse. I even heard tv in the background. No voice. Finally a fourth call and I answer angrily. "This is your credit card company with some info on your account." the numbers matched...and it was all from the same area code that I'd tracked my ex to. But there's NO way she could have known I was doing this through ordinary means. I told the woman what was going on and she put me on with a supervisor. It was legit. I canceled my card and got a promise that they'd investigate, but I never heard anything else. Was it a coincidence purely? A coincidence that maybe she was thinking of me at the same time and had a friend at this major credit card company? Something more sinister? I don't know. ) Anyway, I hope I didn't make things worse for her, but I doubt I made them much better. Finally: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Also with memory, its not just stored in the brain, but in the body too. Muscles store memory and can be trained using this process. Muscles store memory differently, similar to storing tension, there is probably a link between these two.<hr></blockquote> Most definitely. Often memories surface that are ONLY physical. A pain or sensation that is unexplained. And often with DID anyway there are many somatic complaints. They aren't "psychosomatic" in the sense that I was able to see evidence, such as my wife's swollen joint during flareups of what was being called "rheumatoid arthritis", but they were clearly triggered by emotional stress. And the headaches have been very tough as well.

by **streeb** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:32 pm

<a href="http://www.gijobs.net/gijobs/index.cfm?event=Columns&id=462">www.gijobs.net/gijobs/ind...mns&id=462</a> "Also present at Normandy was another Ford, Glenn Ford. Born Gwyllyn Ford in Quebec, Canada, on May 1, 1916, Ford is close-mouthed about his combat experience, and modestly states that during the war, while others were fighting the war, he was “making films.” What he fails to mention is that he was in command of a camera crew filming the Normandy landing on D-Day from the beach while under the constant threat of German small arms fire. Ford enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps on Dec. 13, 1942, and completed basic training at San Diego. He was assigned to John Ford’s OSS photographic unit. Ford, a Marine sergeant, was one of the first Americans to enter the concentration camp at Dachau after its liberation by Allied troops. After the war, Ford was discharged from the Marines as a sergeant. His 108 films include 3:10 to Yuma (1957), Imitation General, and Midway (1976) Ford enlisted in the naval reserve on Dec. 30, 1958. He served as a public affairs officer for the 11th Naval District where he attained the rank of captain, and served on active duty for 30 days when he volunteered with his reserve unit for duty in a forward combat area in Vietnam. He advised Marine combat camera teams filming a documentary in the Mekong Delta. For his actions, Commander Glenn Ford was awarded the Navy Commendation Medal, and was decorated with the Vietnamese Legion of Merit First Class by Premier Nguyen Cao Ky on Feb. 4, 1967. He retired from the active reserve on Oct. 1, 1978."

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:04 pm

So glenn ford may have taken that footage of the soldiers when they lberated the camps? I will never forget the looks in the eyes of those soldiers... Anyway my wife and I have been together for lifetimes, across many different worlds.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> When we reconnected this time, itr was apparant that she was suffering, so I put up with a lot of shit from her that I wouldn't normally from someone. She has "triggers" tho they do not seem programmed. It is more the randomness of events that used to remind her of her abuse. This is partly why I put in the qualification Lils referred to. Despite my seeming scepticism I have a very clear picture in my head of how to do this triggering and creating alters. When she is triggered, she gets upset, and the only thing that helps is gentleness. However over time she has developed control of the triggers and a way to allow her to maintain emotional control. I fill with pride when I think of the mountain she has climbd in this regard. Just knowing someone with that personal strength and integrity is a buzz, and the fact that she loves me... well I feel blessed. IMO creating alter states and control systems in people has to do with creating disassociative states, and structuring the personalities that emerge as a result. I first got onto this after reading a RAW book(Prometheus Rising I think). It had an exercise about observing people and trying to understand what imprints and conditioning affect their behaviour. After doing this I did the exercise as a thought experiment - how to create a manchurian canditate. I was thinking of Sirhan sirhan at the time, though I had not heard of MK Ultra, or any of the mind control stuff at that point in my life. It just seemed like a possiblity that RFK was killed in a weird way. As I got more info on it made a lot of sense. Thats why I repeat the qualification that what I am talking about is not quite the same as dealing with Ritual Abuse. Unless you know how the alter personalities were built you may be doing more harm than good. On a weird slightly scary note, yesterday she mentioned something about seeing a masonic hall, or masons doing a ritual, or at least dressed up for one. I pressed her on the details and she saids that she and a friend had been to their local hall once, to pass on a message to her friends dad, who was a mason. They were answered by someone in regalia, but they were not allowed in, he took the message and passed it on. She reckons they didn't go inside. This is actually a bit disconcerting seeing some other things she has said in the past(not necessarily involving her.) But at the same time I am not going to go looking for a psycho drama that may not be there to try and give my life more "meaning" by being involved in some heavy sonspiracy. I am not saying this to disregard of belittle the stuff Lils and blanc mentions. But if their stuff is real (and I accept it is), then its a little trite and probably offensive to suddenly go: "Oh wow thats suddenly real in my life, I so get where you are coming from." And try and look for unreal connections so I can feel part of the crew. Not saying it isn't in her past. but there is no relevence at this moment in time. Right here and right now.

by **LilyPatToo** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:06 am

Joe, three years ago, if someone had come up to me and asked me if I believed in the existence of ritual abuse or mind control or even multiple personalities in one person, I would have said No! to the mind control and Who knows? to the DID/MPD, since I wasn't aware of having known anyone with it, although, actually, I didn't know much about the symptoms, so.... But I HAD known a woman who came to me for help in escaping what she claimed was a Satanic cult in southern California. This was a well-educated, highly intelligent, respected former Bay Area woman (an IT professional) and she'd fled a very wealthy lifestyle with nothing but her baby daughter and what she could stuff into her car. She claimed her daughter had been ritually sexually abused by the cult, of which her husband and his parents were members. I didn't know what to think about the Satanic stuff at all--it sounded totally off-the-wall--but the woman was absolutely sincere about being terrified and on the run, so I helped her. She vanished and I didn't hear of her again until several years later, when she was arrested reentering the country. She was strongly advised NOT to mention the SRA at her trial, but she insisted upon doing so. As a result, she lost custody of her daughter and got jail time up in Marin County. That makes me certain that she believed that the cult and the abuse were real. And until my mother (primary abuser) passed away, I didn't know I was a multiple. Lots of missing time, but my family had always laughed that off. Then Lily showed up in my head and eventually I found out that there were a lot of women like me and that some had clear memories of being in mind control programs. They, like me, had survived very traumatic, unusual lives full of the kind of drama and tragedy and exploitation that no one else we knew had experienced. We'd all learned not to tell people our real histories to avoid being disbelieved. So I try not to be upset when people find it difficult to accept that mind control or DID/MPD or SRA...neither would I have, just a few years ago. Joe, I'm very glad that your wife has you for a life partner, either way--if she IS a survivor of the SRA/MC stuff, then you may be able to protect her and help her feel safe enough to heal; and if she wasn't exposed to highly-organized abuse, then whatever did happen to her may still require a lot of understanding and patience, which you seem to have in abundance. Just please keep an open mind and don't shut her down if she begins to remember crazy-sounding stuff, because what was done to me definitely was crazy. And I've managed to veryify a lot of it with people who knew me when it was ongoing, so I know my memories can be trusted (most of them), no matter how crazy/awful the memories are. LilyPat

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:00 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Just please keep an open mind and don't shut her down if she begins to remember crazy-sounding stuff, because what was done to me definitely was crazy. And I've managed to veryify a lot of it with people who knew me when it was ongoing, so I know my memories can be trusted (most of them), no matter how crazy/awful the memories are.<hr></blockquote> I am actually on the lookout for that crazy stuff. i certainly wouldn't deny it if she came out with it. We actually just talked about the masonic thing, just talking to see if she could get any weird memory trails or anything. But it all seems OK. We have been together for 12 years now, and we have been through a lot of shit together. I would hope I live up to the impression i give that makes you glad me and her are together. She is very special to me. And an amazing person to boot. The weird thing re abuse was a friend from melbourne. from the age of 3 by her step dad, a rape councellor and principle or vice principle (ironic term that) of an elite girls private school in Melbourne. She had mega "Godess energy" about her. it was weird... One thing that turned me semi religious was the way the godess appeared to myself and someone else and tried to get us to her to protect her one time when she was in danger. Thats was so strange... BTW She started work as a child prostitue from the age of 8. She told me about that, how she ran out of the house during an abuse session, and a bloke in a very expensive car pulled up and offered her cash for the same thing. She said he said that at least she could profit from it. It always seemed that old matey in the merc knew who she was and what was going on - a "no coincidence" kind of thing... And the stories she used to tell about fucking famous people. I used to think she was full of shit at first, but after a while I just got a bit weirded out by it. She was only 16 at the time. I was 21 or 22. i thought at first she was a kid making up her famous lovers, but as I got to know her... She has a son, who is blond (white blond) haired, big blue eyes, cute kid. I always worried about him, he was 1 year old when I met her, (she had him at 15), and part of the reason we seemed to all work it out at the time was her desperation to be free of the prostitute smack addict lifestyle. She told me that her boss was already making comments about how popular her son would be in a few years... He's about 15 now, I haven't caught up with either of them for 3 or 4 years, but we always pass on our hellos. Good friends like that are rare in this life, but we are good friends. One day I might raise the RSA issue with her, but I don't ever want to bring back bad shit. especially after working so hard to help her out in the first place. Her sons father was schizophrenic, and insanely intelligent, a genius. He died of a heart attack in his 20s. Apparantly that is related to the schizophrenia he suffered from and is not unusual. Good bloke, despite his issues. Here's to you Tim. Another link, potentially, in all this that is starting to form in my mind is mind control, abduction, genetics, schizophrenia and adrenochrome. Could be nothing, just Joe tripping out. But it could also have some relevence.

by **LilyPatToo** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:27 am

Joseph, does she by any chance believe she's an alien abductee? A lot of the MC survivors I've met have had UFO sightings and what they believe are alien abduction memories. I saw a UFO in 1966 and when I heard of alien abduction, immediately seized upon that as an explanation for my missing time. A lot of psy abilities that come and go can be an indicator too--Unca Sam was seriously into the psy-warrior stuff long before the remote viewing crew began disinforming on the subject. That said, I need to make clear that all psy stuff is definitely not MC-related and neither are UFO sightings or even, possibly, some alien abductions. The latter has been co-opted so enthusiastically by the disinfo boys, though, that it's now very difficult to figure out what's real and what's hypnotically-implanted screen memories. Kathleen Sullivan has the clearest memories of the staged faux abductions of anyone I know of, but Leah Haley took me aside at a UFO convention 2 years ago and told me that she was horrified to have remembered getting close to a grey and seeing the knit fabric that she'd believed was his skin. If you check, you'll find she's published very little since then. She was furious when she told me about it. Here is an article about it -- <a href="http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/alienz.html">www.borderlands.com/archi...lienz.html</a> It references Martin Cannon's magnum opus, "The Controllers", after which he left the field entirely, harrassed by the UFO True Believers and the spooks alike. I do NOT agree with him that all alien abductions are actually covert intelligence operations, but he definitely ferretted out some interesting stuff during the years he worked on the problem. There's a short artlicle on his theory here -- <a href="http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/hambone/monarch2.html">www.mindcontrolforums.com...arch2.html</a> And here's "The Controllers" -- <a href="http://www.constitution.org/abus/controll.htm">www.constitution.org/abus/controll.htm</a> Re: your wife's son--I had a son who fit that description perfectly. He developed a rare radiation-caused brain cancer and died (after a 6 year battle with it) at almost 13, in 1982. I learned recently that a number of women MC survivors from the same era were also used in radiation exposure experiments in the 50's and early 60's. And I just had multiple anomalous spots show up in a mammogram last year...the radiologist's first question was when and how I'd been exposed to radiation. My "multiple sites" are still a total mystery to the doctors and I can't explain that I think I was experimented upon or I'm afraid they'll medicate me or incarcerate me in an institution. None of the "sites" have turned into cancer yet, but I'll need mammograms every 6 months to a year from now on. I really hate the people who did this to so many people--mostly women, but not all--from the late 40's through now. I hate 'em. LilyPat

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:15 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Re: your wife's son<hr></blockquote> Sorry I was perhaps a bit unclear. My wife and I have no kids, I was referring as well to a friend from Melbourne. Her case is actually closer to RA than my wifes (to my knowledge). So there's my wife and an old friend. Sorry about your loss tho. Thats terrible. Dunno what to say any words would be trite. However about the missus and UFO abductions... Well there's definitley something going on there. but in our experience it is more closely tied to ... get this... magic mushrooms, and its usually me that does the travelling... (Edit) However when the shrooms aren't involved there is this: One night we had a weird thing happen. she was talking about a robotic thing in the bedroom, and a beam that stopped her moving. I was there at the time, there was nothing phsical, but a v strange vibe in the year. More an astral or etheric thing. and this: I actually had one attempted abduction that I would classify as a non human encounter. I say attempted cos they tried and failed.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil"> No shrooms and no spook involvement in that one tho. haven't checked the links you provided yet, but I remember an interview with sci fi writer John Shirley in 21C magazine about 10 years ago. He mentioned that he had seen documents from french Intelligence services detailing their successful simualated abduction attempts using "ordinary" technology from the 90s. The Controllers sounds familiar too. As crazy as traditional alien abduction may sound to some people, I think that personally, it just isn't crazy enough to be true. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=joehillshoist>Joe Hillshoist</A> at: 7/5/06 1:27 am

by **blanc** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:35 am

www.dabs.co.uk this is a bookstore which offers a wide range of material useful to survivors and carers for survivors. if no-one else has posted this.

by **havanagilla** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:56 am

Lily, i can't say how sorry I am for all your troubles. Some of them resonate with mine, as I have described all over in the last few months. -- Radiation - I have been exposed to radiation in the late 70's, and others in Israel have been exposed during the fifties (big issue here around the so called "ring warm" radiations, which resulted in thousands of victims of brain tumors and what not. As for breast - perhaps this will be of a little help for you. Following my experiments, I had a pop up of a pretty large tumor in my breat, that was around 5 years post the radiation. I was sent to mammo, and this was considered a bad result, and strangely, they sent me directly to the surgery room of a local hospital to do URGENT tissue test (its a little surgery where they insert a big needle and suck out tissue from the tumour to be sent to pathology.). I was admitted to surgery, and on the bed, with the pajamas I refused to undergo the test. They were very convincing and manipulative in scaring me to DO it, but I didn't. Later I found another professor who re examined me manually, and said that it might be benign and indeed it disintegrated gradually into smalled pieces and dissolved. Now its been 20 years from that time. I have had grounds to suspect that the procedure was part of the experiment, and so i would caution you to double check every test result, and perhaps use another facility, hospital to run a "second opinion". And if the results are benign, treat them as benign for the time being, don't get into a frenzy of tests (without neglecting what a woman your age should do, and if need, than every 6 months do the mammo, no biggy, lots of women do it). --- If you feel monitored/accessed, just go to another facility without making phone appointments. you can also check in ER, to get the test redone, under some pretext. --

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