Non-Human Evil, specifically

by **john darmy** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:45 pm

Here's an except from an interesting article on The Universal Seduction web site that attempts to answer some of the questions that have been raised by this thread: In a nutshell, what is the alien agenda? Mankind is being enslaved by non-human forces who are technologically, psychically, and dimensionally superior to us. They consist of multiple factions, spanning multiple dimensions and locations in spacetime, all here to take a slice of the human pie. Their ultimate goal is to assimilate us into their fascist empire and parasitically exploit us for our biological, etheric, and physical resources. Through covert manipulation and hyperdimensional tricks that utilize time travel, they have secretly manipulated and exploited humanity in every way conceivable for tens of thousands of years. We are now seeing their plans overtly manifest with the abduction and hybrid breeding program, and their imminent portrayal as saviors to a human race gone mad with world conflict. If the world accepts them as saviors, individual freedom as we know it will become snuffed like a blown candle, leaving only darkness. The entire article is here: <a href="http://theuniversalseduction.com/archives/the-hybrid-breeding-program-and-impending-enslavement-of-mankind">theuniversalseduction.com...of-mankind</a>

by **glubglubglub** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:03 pm

Homeless: You're conflating two things: i) the ultimate understandability of what an advanced race would want with us, once properly explained to us (you argue that whatever it would be, it would be explainable) ii) your ability to imagine what such an advanced race could possibly want or if not exactly conflating, running them together into a point you can't, logically, make; iii) does not follow from i) and ii): i) anything an advanced alien race would want would be explainable and logical (to you) ii) you cannot conceive of anything they'd possibly want --- ergo: iii) they're not coming here, or at least there's no logical reason for them to do so Working under the assumption that there are nonhuman presences here -- at least let's work with this for a moment -- you do realize that you lack most of the domain knowledge you'd need to reason logically about the 'visitor's' motivations...what it is safe to conclude for you is that with the knowledge at hand there doesn't appear to be a good reason for them to be here, so if they are here for a good reason there's specific knowledge -- perhaps pertaining to their physical needs, the nature of higher-order technology, limits thereof ( which is my personal guess -- I'm guessing intelligence/consciousness/sentience is basically in short supply ), cultural differences -- that you're lacking. --- This is a very long way of saying that your inability to understand why such a race/thing might want something from us is really neither here nor there as an argument...I'm still unsold on the presence or absence of just about any of the theories, although it's clear there are interests interested in keeping both the apperance of such occurrences before the public and ridiculing such phenomena, so go figure. --- Also, be careful when speaking of, say, the universality of logic: I'm willing to wager I know more logic than you, and once you step past, say, standard first-order logic, there's a whole realm of other logics (ie, nonmonotonic logic, which seems a decent approximation to the sort of 'logic' humans reason with on an informal basis, esp. when not particularly careful), many of which only vaguely correspond to our intuitive notions of logic; if you were dealing with aliens whose 'casual' logic was sufficiently divorced from ours, well, you wouldn't likely be singing the same tune about the universality of logic. --- Particularly with the sciences it's best to stay away from making sweeping generalizations about anything for which you haven't at least worked through an introductory textbook. That warning could well apply to lots on this board but this seemed the place to put it.

by **Homeless Halo** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:19 pm

my, how biblical it all sounds. But where is the evidence? I'm not working with the assumption of nonhuman intelligences operating here because I've yet to see a shred of evidence that would beg their existence. And how, might I add, does one make sense of the disparity in antiquity as to their abilities? I mentioned this above and no one responded to it directly-- in the old myths with aliens, we beat them in wars, sometimes more than once...how is this possible if they are "technologically, psychically, and dimensionally superior to us" as was asserted above. If they can control us so well now, how did we beat them back then? (and if you'd posit that we didn't beat them ever, then you'd have to remove most of the religious history used to prop up this theory, that is, it defeats itself) (The Blackbird existed, as known now, from at least 1955, from a fifties pilots' point of view, it could do "impossible" things, perhaps the sightings in the forties were of its precursors?) And honestly, military documents stating that the manuevers and speeds are impossible does not make it such. Compartmentalization. Either the US govt didn't tell its soldiers about its high tech toys or they didn't tell them about their involvement with aliens. Either way, military documents describing the craft don't prove anything. There are just as many documents, for example, that say they simply don't exist. I find it unlikely that Aliens who can bludgeoned to death with big fucking rocks (the annukaki) would be able to control the "Military Industrial Complex" who are armed with Plasma cannons and Microwave pulse guns... I see human evil at work in the world. I think it is wishful thinking, at best, to assume that mankind needs help to enslave mankind. Which is what you're doing, assuming, just as I am, if you have no evidence.

by **Homeless Halo** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:23 pm

I'm a Philosophy of Science student. btw. Not yet halfway through, but I have more than introductory training in formal logic and several "fuzzy" areas. I think you are underestimating human ability when you maintain that humans would/could be incapable of understanding alien agendas. Sure, you may know more than me. I don't doubt it out of hand, but that doesn't mean that there are Evil Alien Overlords ruling the world.

by **glubglubglub** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:39 pm

I'm not arguing that humans couldn't understand such things -- just that you, with what you know now, more likely than not couldn't... I'm not attempting to argue pro or con on evil alien overlords...you seem to have been arguing that i) aliens would have understandable motives ii) you don't understand why they'd be here if they were and thus iii) more prosaic explanations may be in order...I'm calling into question i) and pointing out that ii) isn't a terribly strong point to be using, although I presume it's correct. iii) could be the correct path in this circumstance, but you can't get there from what you have.

by **proldic** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:41 pm

"If anybody knows how to do a good job of body snatching, they will really be serving their country." "I don't know how to snatch bodies...at Rand [Corporation] in the summer of 1953 we hired an expensive law firm to look up the law of body snatching. This compendium is available to you. It is not very encouraging. It shows you how very difficult it is going to be to do it legally...At least the existence of the project I hope we will get away with revealing. Whether this is going to help in the body snatching problem, I don't know. I think it will. It is a delicate problem in public relations, obviously." - Dr. Willard Libby, AEC Commissioner Jan. 18, 1955 AEC Transcript: "Bio-Physics Conference" (ACHRE No.DOE-040395-A) From: The Plutonium Files: America's Secret Medical Experiments In the Cold War by Eileen Welsome (Dell Publishing 1999)

by **GDN01** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:47 pm

You keep asking for proof that there are evil alien overlords dominating the earth responsible for aduction stories. You kinda assumed, it seemed, that I believe this to be true because I questioned your motive for starting this post. I do not agree that there are evil alien overlords - as you suggest this means. I do believe in evil. I do believe there are dimensions/realms of reality that we do not understand nor can begin to conceive, yet our reality is interrupted by, and interconnected with these dimensions. And these experiences are "alien" to us. Not sure that this means from another planet, or possibly a form of humanesque life that is capable of things we do not experience in our human dimension. (I doubt the apes understand much about humans, but they know we are out there, and sometimes show up in their jungle and capture them - some even get returned...). What is the motivation of any inter-dimensional involvement? We herd cattle. We stomp on ant piles. We put animals in zoos. We experiment on primates for medical cures because they are the closest thing we can find to our life form without doing "inhumane" things to our own species. We are trying to figure out how to extract animal DNA and clone animals as a food source. Maybe any or all of these things are being done to us? Why does it seem so far-fetched? Or maybe it is morbid curiosity - like when we have all the kids in junior high disect frogs - just to see what a frog heart looks like. So - I believe in evil. I believe there is something "alien" going on. I believe there are overlords - probably two competing global houses of power (maybe more) - and neither house gives a damn about the common person. Do I believe the "aliens" are in control of the houses? Could it be that the Power Houses know how to use this "alien" dimension? Yes. And maybe all the "alien" activity and abductions, as well as RA and MC, are a result of this knowledge by the Power Houses. Does this mean there are evil alien overlords?? It depends on how you understand each of those words. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gdn01>GDN01</A> at: 10/3/05 3:51 pm

by **GDN01** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:03 pm

This was the subject of a previous thread on this board that I found particularly compelling - that something other than human interacts with our reality. The source is<a href="http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=190">Whitley Strieber's journal</a>, a post about a book that claims there was a hair left behind by a "visitor" that had DNA testing done on it. I think Strieber's website provides a lot of "proof" if he is someone you believe, and I do. My other source for evidence is Jeff's blog, which has many accounts of "alien" visitation.

by **Homeless Halo** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:55 pm

Would this fellow who has this alien's hair allow third party genetic examination to solidify his claims? (or is it not in existence any more?) You've read about this, it seems, so where is the hair today? I don't buy "accounts" of alien visitation. As has been noted above, I could buy everything I needed from Meijer's to fake any abduction story I've ever read. I'm not saying none of them are true, just that it isn't very likely that Aliens would control us for thousands of years and not leave a shred of physical evidence behind. Unless of course, you know where I can see this hair? (A book about it having existed doesn't help me much, because I have learned better than to trust everything someone writes down as gospel) And, for those who haven't been paying attention, I'm specifically interested in the idea that Aliens are in control of us, not that they MIGHT exist, or that UFOs are real, or that people are abducted by something, all of which I agree with. I want to know about evil "Reptoid shape shifters" and whatnot. I continually encounter this as a given, and not only on this board. I chose this place to bring it up because I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that those here would wish to discuss their reasons for belief openly. I find it personally amusing that in most of the cases for "Alien Agendas" much ado is made about old religions and their seemingly alien characters. I find it more amusing that it is posited seriously that this is evidence of Alien involvement in current affairs, for previously mentioned reasons. Most researches couple this information with modern UFO sightings and Abduction reports and assume that they are all the same thing. GD asks why it seems so far fetched? Because it IS far fetched. The working hypothesis for any/all of these odd phenomena should not include any variables that are unneccessary which are not directly supported by evidence. (i.e. alien overlords/flying monkeys/rabid hedgehogs/etc) I think we're dealing with a underestimation of human capacity for abuse and psychological malfunction. (which is more to the point, the aliens aren't evil, they're insane, if they exist) Perhaps I should just get in line with everyone else and believe in the evil demons ruling over us, but it just seems so FAR FETCHED. It sounds like the sort of thing that bad parents tell their kids to keep them in line. Which I think, is much closer to the truth. I apologize again, for the reek of my tone sometimes. You see, I learned BB etiquette while debating in a Religion Forum. I haven't seen a "heated" conversation here yet, by comparison. I guess I should ask, what exactly about the ruling "elites" makes you think they are in collusion with "others"? Where does their behavior deviate (pun) significantly from other less "elite" diseased and damaged people? What is it that they do that could only be explained by outsider involvement? Why are the outsiders so interested in a lot of Swiss Bankers making lots of money if they are planning an imminent takeover? Why are the outsiders so interested in American domination of the planet's resources if they wish to have those resources for themselves? Why do all the manifestations of otherwordly abilities always happen when there is no method to record these manifestations available? If they have physical presence, why is it that none of their victims has been able to kill one by fighting back? Why is it that the Alien Agenda, as it so cutely called, seems to change depending on who is writing the book, and what cases they are referencing? (That is, why don't more stories match up, as with something else that could be called both anomalous and unproven--Sasquatch, for example?) I have yet to address my actual feelings on this matter. I haven't had time yet, and my feelings fluctuate from time to time. And for the extradimensionalists/demon believers, what of the Roswell crash? Clearly a physical object, and the military documents mention "victims"--as published on the SCi-FI channel Docu.-- that is to say: something with a DEAD physical form...

by **dbeach** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:07 pm

Check your inbox but I have shared about these lil grey fiends before

by **Dreams End** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:16 pm

I would suggest NOT getting your UFO info from the SCIFI channel. I know an awful lot about this topic and I am ALWAYS disappointed with television broadcasts on them. Roswell would take a whole other thread. You don't need Roswell to make the case for "something". Vallee acknowledges that these "things" leave physical traces...doesn't say that they are only in the mind. Some point out how the descriptions of the craft change as our popular conceptions of what a "spaceship" should look like change. At the turn of the century (20th), there were mysterious "airships" all over the country. Often described just as lights but sometimes like what we think of as blimps (were none at the time) and really weird accounts of conversations with the occupants, that, as is often the case, don't make much logical sense (german guy talking about flying to cuba or something similar...I forget.) Similar stories exist throughout history... I think it's important to separate out abduction and UFO stuff. I am convinced that many of these people are not making these things up...and many remember them without the aid of hypnosis, but that doesn't mean that they are true in the "nuts and bolts" kind of way. Mack felt this way, as does Vallee. As for logic...nevermind the logic. In your mind, go show a television broadcast to a human from 6000 b.c.e. Imagine their reaction. Technology, sufficiently advanced, (this is from Sagan? can't remember), is indistinguishable from magic.

by **GDN01** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:21 pm

how about reading the information I provided before asking more questions? Can anyone remember the thread where this was discussed? I can't find it in a search - but the guy who wrote the book actually joined in the discussion and it was very interesting. And yes, I think there was third party testing. And if you want to see the hair - I think you will have to go to Australia. Again - read the info. Update: Found the <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm12.showMessage?topicID=76.topic">thread</a> where this is discussed. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gdn01>GDN01</A> at: 10/3/05 5:25 pm

by **Dreams End** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:56 pm

no WAAAAY I'll be able to remember the title of that thread, but Jeff did say he was going to post on it soon.

by **Homeless Halo** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:00 pm

try to figure out what is directed at whom. Sorry. I don't "get my information" from the SF chan. I get my information from whatever I can find. I own well over 500 books on this subject. (my recommended reading list is current 40 pages long, I could post it for you) I'm not offended, I just wanted you to understand that I picked SF arbitrarily, and because I enjoyed their documentary, much to my suprise. As regards the SCIFI channel thing, it was chosen at random, I videotape anything it and the History publish on anything odd (BBC too, just because), because the two of them tend to reflect the views of the intellectual non-mainstream audience, at least slightly better than anything else in american media. The documentaries done by SF were among the best and most comprehensive I've ever seen. I have no reason to distrust them. Their conclusions: Crash at Roswell, likely non-terrestrial. Their evidence: Computer blowup of the document in the hand of the General who created the Weather Balloon meme who was photographed at the time and published in multiple papers. Their experiments are repeatable with the same results. From one angle the documents' text can be seen. Computer enhancement lets you read a document you were never supposed to read, or at least parts of it. I'm sure you could find something on the web regarding it. And they rerun it all the time. (btw, no one has successfully debunked their account, and the Air Force has "no comment") Keywords in the document: OBJECT. CRASH. VICTIMS. MOVED. SECURE LOCATION. (all of which supports the traditional conspiracy theory) I found it all very fascinating, and it impacted me prescisely because I didn't think it would be done very well. Pleasantly suprised this time. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke, that one, I'm pretty sure. (I'm an occultist remember, *_magic_* I believe in) I just don't believe in Evil Aliens. (of course, I don't REALLY believe in EVIL but it is a useful term, and I'm hypocritical about this. I'm an amoralist, don't believe in good or evil. I believe we call some things evil. I think they are actually mostly ignorance and insanity) --------------- Read the thread, and from the DNA evidence described there it appears to describe some sort of *gasp* human/human hybrid. How strange. Visited his site. Probably won't read his book. When quoted in the thread posted above he seemed melodramatic at the least, paranoiac at worst. Besides what does human/human hybridizing prove? (It proves that someone has the ability to both decode the human genome and to clone humans. big suprise, we can do that) This wasn't as important a piece of evidence as it is trumpeted to be, it could easily have been made in any one of dozens of labs in this state. I don't wish to insult this man, and there are details in his stories which would lead one to assume he at least believes he is speaking truth. This does not mean however, that he has produced evidence for Evil Alien Overlords/Reptoid Shape Shifters. He actually seems sort of New Agey Reactionist with his Hippy aliens (probably as improbable as evil aliens) acting as overlords of human destiny. His deification of John FK is appalling. He seems to think that if Kennedy were still alive we'd live in the Star Trek world. (I don't deny evil people killed JFK, just that he was a saint) ------ I don't really want to argue a lot about this, I just don't want to run in circles getting to the points. I am skeptical by nature, which is why I'm here instead of someplace else. Sue me. What you're saying then is that you might be inclined to believe in Aliens with a possibly evil agenda based on a large amount of eyewitness testimony in regards to the subject and on anecdotal evidence that sometimes indirectly supports this testimony? I have lots of personal opinions on the subject of ETs, but few that I can directly validate. I have opinions on the paranormal and occult as well, these I've experienced, but I might be insane. I might be a tiny leper from lebabanon licking the locks on my lincoln in my garage as it fills with Carbon Monoxide right now, but probably not.

by **Dreams End** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:17 pm

Actually, HH, the author of that book is a pretty sharp guy. I was very skeptical of what I'd seen due to what I thought were some scientific lapses...for example, I thought you couldn't get any dna from a hair shaft...but his replies (he came to this board in response to an email) were nondefensive and technically complete. That doesn't make it true...just consistent. I wasn't dismissing Roswell...(though I've seen the computer enhanced memo and I'm not that convinced that those words are there, still pretty fuzzy...but it was a GREAT idea to try)...I just think that that area is really contaminated with disinfo and bad info from hucksters. And I have to say, I did read one of the earliest interviews with the rancher...Brazel from a paper not long after the crash and he really did describe what sounded like balsa wood with the sort of flower design tape that some suggested a Mogul balloon might have. I'm sure the Airforce got to him...but I don't think they would have thought to have him put out that particular cover story. I think the Marcel testimony is convincing as is the obvious and now admitted to fact that whatever it was was NOT the balloon in the photo and it was shipped off to Wright Patterson (or was it Maxwell...I've forgotten) Memos indicate the same and even General Exxon admitted this. Unfortunately, the Mogul balloon can account for much of the duplicity...so if that's not the real story, it's a pretty good cover. I think the evidence of bodies is weaker...the few eyewitness accounts I know are questionable and I think at least a couple have been debunked by PRO-alien roswell researchers (like to see that kind of rigor though, among the "believers") I'll admit I haven't checked up on Roswell in some years. As for the SCIFI thing...sorry...wasn't meaning to be patronizing. SO MANY TIMES have I sat excited from a preview of such shows on SCIFI or History channel or whatever and I'm ALWAYS disappointed. The worst was the recent Peter Jennings special which was horrible and I was very unclear why they put it on. They sounded like they'd put forward a convincing case and then they pick a couple of weak cases and then spend time debunking abductees...standard formula. The timing was odd, and there were rumors that some good stuff was cut due to pressure...but just rumors. I actually wrote them a letter asking why they bothered. He'll never be able to tell us now. I think that, barring a landing, that gov. documents are the way to go, along with witnesses with some connection to these programs. Sadly, I think there's disinfo in much of that as well. I've posted on that before...particularly the "aviary"... Then there's one of the two responsible for the MJ-12 documents who ADMITTED passing disinfo onto another researcher. so many games there...it would SEEM that the objective is to hide the truth but there could be another objective. I think these intel guys particularly like to start or monitor UFO cults like Heaven's Gate and the Raelians for various purposes. It's a bloody, muddy mess.

Non-Human Evil, specifically

alien master plan

domain knowledge

darmy

btw

not trying to start a flame war

Body-Snatching Patriots

How about separating the issues?

And for evidence

hair? what hair?

Re: ETs...or not?

Re: hair? what hair?

Re: hair? what hair?

Re: hair? what hair?

right foot in wrong foot out?

Re: right foot in wrong foot out?

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