harrassing emails, daily into my box

[LilyPatToo]

DE, I too believe that any mind control researcher sleeping with his rescued slave/programmer/whatever should be regarded with caution. But time and again when I've come up with a key word, it's been found in those books of his. Even really far-out stuff that my alter Lily came up with turned out to be not only in his writings, but also in other MC survivors' writings. <br><br>My guess is that Cisco Wheeler is for real, but, like Cathy O'Brien, what she's revealed has come through an intermediary that is less than trustworthy. So I look for other correspondences within the MC literature then and store the whole thing with large grains of salt. It's all you can do in a field like this one.<br><br>LilyPat <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

I'm reading it now. You get lots of details and then a generic statement about the Illuminati...front groups from the plausible (CIA) to the rather bizaree (LA Dodgers), to the mythic (MJ12...imo). <br><br>In any event, he sets out what is either a pretty detailed collection of info (amidst his spin...rather easily detected, actually. For example, to him, only Christianity can deliver victims totally from this system as the soul is "demonized" or given to a demon to possess PRE-birth. ) or else it is a foundational document of a complex myth...or somewhere in between.<br><br>I don't mean by myth that none of it is true...but I still must consider the possibility that there is a sociological dimension to this...perhaps even an engineered one. That is, some of this stuff...about "the core" of the system reminds me a lot of information from a particular organization that I've been in contact with and which does consulting all over the US about this. What if, intentionally or no, these folks, very influential among survivors, are filling in gaps with a fully formed structure and storyline? <br><br>Now, those who've experienced these things can simply respond that you remember enough or have corroborated enough in your own lives..and I understand that. But I can't. And given the correlation between the Deliverance version, which has a clear agenda (Deliverance as in "deliverance ministries" ) and an apparently secular organization (I don't know that I should give out the name here.....) suggests either they are both independently onto something or that they both drink from the same well.<br><br>I don't think the FMSF stuff is accurate. I think it takes a great deal of work to implant internally consistent false memories...but I do assume it can be done. <br><br>Now that I've pissed off a bunch of people, I'll say that I'm not using this as my working hypothesis...but I do have it in the back of my mind as a possibility. Just as Lily has said her alien abduction story gave way to one that more closely mirrored MC accounts..there could be other layers. <br><br>I'll bet one thing for sure though. If I could capture on paper somehow my current beliefs about how and why all this works, I'll bet 90% is wrong. <br><br>If anyone wants to respond...don't take this as an attack on any individual's story..I was just a little concerned to see such a similarity of language between two groups that I would though would have little to do with each other. NOW...this could, of course, simply mean that Fritz is simply relating survivor accounts. He also claims to have interviewed programmers themselves. <br><br>As a rare conspiracy minded leftist, I have developed a skepticism for people who have such all access, backstage passes. He should be dead...though he is in jail (with evidence, however, that seems rather strong to me that he was both hooked up with extremists and robbing banks....though I forget the details.)<br><br>Anyway, I will go back to the book now. I have to say that knowing what I know, there are portions...maybe about half of what he writes, that don't strike me as nuts at all. I'd say it is a good book for survivors still attempting to reconstruct their own stories and worried about "memory contamination" to avoid for now, but others can have a look and see what you think. <p></p><i></i>

[LilyPatToo]

Fritz is a *bank robber"--?!!! Jeez.<br><br>What I know of him is through the MC survivor who found me--she calls herself Onesmartrat. And she believes Cisco Wheeler implicitly. Me, I'm more skeptical, but then, I've never met Wheeler personally, the way that OSR has. Wheeler claims to be a programmer and the daughter of a major programmer. Many of her claims are very similar to Svali's, who, BTW, is said to have disappeared recently.<br><br>Does anyone know where the Springmeier thread is or perhaps remember its title? This is a big board....<br><br>LilyPat <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

Start here:<br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier2.htm">www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier2.htm</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>One of the first links I came across. I put stock in it because it and the articles it links to are from people who worked with him and believed him. I think if you keep following links you'll get to a letter from his wife and all kinds of stuff.<br><br>I read the first four chapters of the abovelinked book. Some of it resonates..and in that he does have a long explanation of how Oz is used in programming...though none of the examples..and there are many...specifically match my wife's child alter who visits with the Cowardly lion. <br><br>But all of it is almost like reading Hugh's posts. Surely there's something to it, but with so MANY keywords and so many laters....he says thousands...everything can be interpreted as mind control....<br><br>And it is so incredibly complex..<br><br>The Patton article doesn't impress me. So many factual errors in the first couple of paragraphs that I kinda lost hope it would lead anywhere. <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

thanks corvi, that's pretty much the same format. it is one of those "reality checks" that proves useful for me. I am just realizing how a hypervigilant mind can open itself, actually, to a scare, whether its real or imagined. there is a mode of being, thinking, that i feel is the pitfall. a kind of petrified, over focused, state of mind that loses the "big picture". <p></p><i></i>

[LilyPatToo]

DE, thank you. What a messed up human being ol' "Fritz" is....And Cisco Wheeler is just another Cathy O'Brien--a victim of mind controllers who's stumbled into the arms of a "rescuer" who's then exploited her some more<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :( --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>havanagilla, I have over a hundred porn spam emails in a folder, some formatted like that one, out of several times that many that I've received since that very first one. Most are significant only for their obnoxiousness, but a few came with key words that directly related to posts I'd just made online about recovered memories. So don't throw out the baby with the bathwater--sometimes there IS significance, even if most times there is not.<br><br>To me, explaining away that extremely relevant first one as synchronicity is an example of bending over backward and contorting wildly to explain something for which a much simpler, more likely and infinitely more direct explanation already exists. Occam's Razor tells me that there IS a direct link between posting about that particular politician's sexual preference and, hours later, receiving that first piece of spam that detailed that obscure preference.<br><br>It basically said to me "You're being monitored and even though you didn't say what sexual preference it was, WE were already aware of it. Consider this a warning." Anyone with access to my program history would no doubt know things like that little factoid and gaining access to my email address had most likely taken place some time before...I'd already found out that I had to monitor my account closely, since someone kept changing my settings so that messages that I erased began to be saved, instead. My email provider adamantly denied *ever* changing my preferences, but it keeps on happening. I've found hundreds of messages piling up, private personal ones as well as spam, in my online box. I assume that just makes it easier for whoever keeps tabs on me to read my mail. Or it's a program-loyal alter...no way to tell for certain.<br><br>LilyPat<br> <p></p><i></i>

[yathrib]

Just got one w/ the subject heading "huge antisemite." The content was something to do w/ stock tips. <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

Its funny, cause after I posted here about the spam it stopped. But then yesterday, after something I posted on RI, re Gilead I think, another just came in immediately. <br>--<br>I still think it is used, or can be used as "mind game", but I think it is also useful to ignore it, unless you have a clear way of stopping it (namely, identifying the source and enforcing some law on them). Otherwise, you fall into the trap. Which is basically a time pump and a control mechanism. (creating a one way diaologue) <p></p><i></i>

[4911]

havadude, its just spam mail...its...I...dude youre in a frikkin war zone ferchrissakes! Focus, man! That shits not important! Keep your head clear for important shit like survival and readiness, PLEASE <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 8/4/06 12:58 pm<br></i>

[havanagilla]

4911, thanks for the reminder. I am well aware that I am meat already, for a while, and the proof is enjoying this Vulturous Intuition board, which feels like a good biological cleansing of the remains from my bones. My situation was determined two years ago, and I can have some grace in designing the final exit. I want to be sure, though, that I know what happened to me, before I meet my maker.<br>---<br>I might seem as nit picking to you, re the spam, at this moment of missiles and big wars, but this way I am collecting all the memories, the understandings, the little influences on the mind. I don't know if you can appreciate it, obviously not.<br>If bombs fall here, there is little I can do, except hope it falls far from me or straight on me so I don't suffer too long. Other than that, i still have to clean the floor and do the dishes every day...and cook. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[4911]

Youre not meat. You dont know whats gonna happen. Dont ever give up. Lookit the germans last game in the world cup - they were off guard for just a few seconds and they got nailed for it. One day youll be able to relax, sure. Maybe next week. <br><br>remember all the good shit that happens to "..he who endureth..." later.<br><br><br>Dont get me wrong, I just mean like.. are spam mails so important you should be making yourself feel bad over them? <br><br>Fuck its foot in mouth time for me here. Sorry man. Just tryin to help. <br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 8/4/06 2:44 pm<br></i>

[LilyPatToo]

havanagilla, the obsessiveness of MC survivors is definitely not understood by many outsiders at all. But to us, it may be the only way to get to the bottom of what really happened to us. And since our mental survival may depend on figuring this stuff out, it's not just a random or self-indulgent thing...though I realize that it looks like it to anyone whose mind is their own.<br><br>Following clues is how I've retrieved most of my own most evidential memories. They were things that normal people probably would have brushed off completely, but when I dug deeper, <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">I found all sorts of things that I wasn't supposed to ever remember</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->.<br><br>And working on one of those puzzles is also an excellent way to hold at bay the terror of being bombed. It's not like you can do anything about that, so thinking about THAT is actually a total waste of time. Once you've done all you can to provide for your and your son's safety, why NOT puzzle over MC stuff? <br><br>So, are spam emails that important? No, not usually, not if you're not a MC survivor, certainly. But perhaps some of the ones that we survivors receive are deliberately designed to play mind games. Thinking hard about them is not a waste of time if it leads you to a better understanding of how you might be messed with.<br><br>When you're handed lemons, make lemonade. When someone has messed with your mind and your life and made you paranoid or obsessive, then use those qualities to understand what's been done to you. Makes perfect sense to me.<br><br>LilyPat <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

1. 4911 thanks for the pep talk. just to be on the safe side i'ma female (saying this cause you use dude/man, but perhaps this is unisex by now). its good to be hopeful and it also important to know where you are, and what are one's prospects, so not to fall to illusions. I think I am assessing my status as "meat" accurately. NOt all truth is pleasant. <br>2. lpt - yes, i agree on the role of spam, let's not call it spam, it is spam-ish looking harassments. of the usual kind. what I am realizing through the process is that those people know a lot in general, not just personal info, but politics, military stuff, economic news. if I could make use of all the "inside" info, i'd be rich by now. I know some of the senders, at some point one revealed himself, as Yisrael Feinberg, a classmate of mine from highschool, way back...he has become a computer person in the department of defense, in what is called "information security" namely, those who are normally in charge of protecting information. It was funny, cause in high school, he was a scorned nerd, a new immigrant from USSR (his mother was a scientist in the Weizman institute of Science and some half hero refusenik whatever). For some reason, when the kids made fun of him they called him "the spy". I think that in fact we were repeating or echoing our parents talks, that perhaps his mother was a spy in russia or something. anyway, he was the classic nerd, and I am sure quite hateful and resentful, and so his job turned out to be quite powerful in intruding the privacy of citizens and enemies probably. When I was in Berkeley, a few years ago, he emailed me and revealed himself. It was important for him to remind me our schooltimes, and this also can account for how the mind games work, given that some of the perps know you since grade 7...there's a lot they can do with that info. He said something interesting then, that "it all started in high school", which can point to the government messing with the "group dynamics" of adolocents and recruiting one against the other, as was done (and recently, this week, disclosed) by the Securitate in rumania, and if they did it certainly israel does and more so, the CIA. So, i KNOW that the spam form IS used for harassment and mind games. But surely, one cannot which spam is that way, unless you open/read some of it or all. Because there is also regular spam. Paranoia and obssession make all emails suspects, and that's a pitfall. So, the best way is to delete ALL of them. <p></p><i></i>

[4911]

hava, I thought you were male yes. Not all truth is pleasant, yes. Should you give up because of that? No. <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

my inner male came out, hey ? well, it happens to me all the time on this board. in fact, in ALL the cases I guessed the gender wrong. But I thought its because of my ESL. Are you a native english speaker at all ? <br><br>--<br>Hope can be a pitfal. I remember the kitch scene in :Schindler's List (hated that movie) when the Schindler guy is spraying water on the cattle wagons of the trains to Auschwitz. Is that smart to do ? not really. Let the people die, if they are so sentenced. We shoot horses in such conditions, because of mercy. <br><br>I know that one of the reasons intel orgs, and governments, such as my own gov (israel), don't go shooting people like me in some dark alley or run me down in a ditch, is because of a false morality, or false "ethics" of not having blood on the hands. But in fact, they sentence people to a worse death, not from mercy but cowardice. There was a famous "rumour" that Prime Minister Shamir ordered the execution of Vanunu, and that Shimon Peres, the eternal politician, intervened to reverse the order and change it to kidnap and prison. But if you take a long hard look at <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>11 years in solitary confinement ( eleven YEARS) and anoher 7 in semi solitary confinment plus a lot of torture of the worse kind, then</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> is Shimon Peres commendable for instilling hope where there is none ? I am not saying you are along those lines, just giving the examples so you get my situation in context. or any situation. we tend to feel misguided emotionality, but not always this is the correct decision. <br><br>--<br>Since I am getting a bit philosophical tonight, i was also giving some thought about the lebanon war now. Suddenly people cry foul, but in fact the figure of 1000 civilians dead is I think the monthly harvest in Iraq. And it might be doube and thrice in the MidEast and worst, if the us/uk/israel go on a real killing spree. If this shock spurs the EU and the "world" to action now, that's a worthy shock. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Where are the american people?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> where are <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>SOME</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> demonstrations to stop it ? they are preparing the minds for nuclear bomb ? so, people are like that, feel sorry for 100 and care not 100 thousand. Depends which day you catch them. <br><br>I heard on the news about some demonstrations against Harper in ontario (alicethecurious is probably marching in the first row), and his response. He couldn't care less, and so does Blair and so does Bush and all of them, and they know why.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>