Red Haired Giants

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Re: Shawnee version of the Allegaw, and the empty Appalachia

Postby Jill Burdigala » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:06 am

I'm afraid this will contribute nothing to the discussion apart from buttressing things that have already been said, but for what it's worth....<br><br>I remember reading a while ago, in a book on Indians which I can't find now to cite, that, when most of the North American continent -- including harsh regions like the Arctic and the Southwestern deserts -- was populated by thriving native cultures, the rich wooded lands of what are now Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia had long stood empty. Small bands of hunters or warriors might pass through on occasion, but no one tried to settle there. It was only during the 17th and 18th centuries, when the European presence began to dislocate native populations, that uprooted peoples drifted into the area to take up residence. <br><br>The area in question is the center of the Hopewell and Adena mound builder cultures. Only a small percentage of the mounds now remain, and when these are on private property they may be destroyed, because <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>no extant Indian nation claims descent from the Hopewell/Adena cultures.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>The following conversation, dramatized but based on recorded communication, is taken from Allan Eckert's <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Frontiersmen</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->; this exchange took place in 1773 and involved Chief Black Fish of the Shawnees and a Virginia surveyor named Thomas Bullit, who came to advise the chief that Virginians intended to move into the land south of the Ohio river:<br><br>"The Shawnees", Black Fish said, "cannot tell you that you are allowed to settle in the Can-Tuc-Kee lands. We have never owned that land. It belongs to the ghosts of murdered Azgens -- a white people from an eastern sea. Their bones and ghosts occupy every hill and valley of the country. They protect the game there and have more and better right there than any of the Indian tribes, including our own Shawnee nation, because they do not need or use material food themselves and do not like it. Long ago our fathers and our grandfathers killed off the Azgens, but we now fear more the spirits of these people than our fathers and grandfathers feared them when they were flesh."<br><br>Black Fish paused.... "When our food is all gone," he continued, "and our squaws and children starving, we appeal to the ghosts of the white mothers who were killed there and, by saying the right words, we are allowed to kill an elk or deer or bear or buffalo. But... we are never allowed to kill the game wantonly and we are forbidden to settle in the country of Can-Tuc-Kee. If we did, these ghosts would not rise from their caves and mounds and slay us, but they would set father against son and son against father and neighbor against neighbor and make them kill one another."<br><br>On a personal note, and I realize that anectodal evidence is the weakest and most questionable of all, I know of three mounds within 6 miles of my home. I have visited two of them. One of them stands in the middle of a flat grassy field and is obviously an unnatural formation; the other is in a forest, situated among natural hills, and to look at it you would never guess it was a manmade structure without being told. Apart from the fact that it was excavated in the 1930s I don't know how anyone could tell it <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>was</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> a man-made mound; and I wonder if the hills around it are really natural, or are simply unexplored. They all look the same to me, but of course I am not a geologist. <br><br>Some strange and not entirely comfortable "vibe" seems to emanate from these mounds. I discount the feeling from the second one altogether since I knew it was a mound before I ever saw it, and thus my imagination may well be playing tricks upon me. But I passed by the first one on almost a daily basis for over a year before learning it was a mound, and it always resonated a little weirdly with me, as if there were some kind of unnatural silence enveloping it. But then again, perhaps some instinctive faculty in my subconscious realized that it was not naturally a part of the flat plain. I can't say. I definitely believe most of us have a "sixth sense" (more sensitive in some than others), and that feelings and intuitions, vague and undefinable as they are, should not be dismissed out of hand. But the question is always, how much of the feeling emanates from <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>without</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, as opposed to being generated somehow from <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>within</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->?<br><br>Anyway. Often in the past, while driving through the extensive rural swaths of southern Ohio, it has seemed to me that there is something oppressive and not entirely friendly brooding in the haze of the sleepy valleys and thick-shaded woods. But whether this is an echo of the misery of uncounted red people dying from disease and famine, or the lingering resonance of all the red and white blood that was spilled along "that dark and bloody" river, a or simply my own diseased psyche, or a whisper of things even more lost and remote than the Shawnees and Mingoes, I cannot say. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Shawnee version of the Allegaw, and the empty Appalachia

Postby chiggerbit » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:44 am

From Wkiki on Mandans, of the Dakotas during the 1800's:<br><br>"...Upon the death of a family member, a scaffold would be erected near the village to contain the body. The body would be placed with the head towards the northwest and feet to the southeast. (Southeast is the direction of the Ohio River Valley, from whence the Mandan came...." <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 9/26/06 11:46 pm<br></i>
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American migrations

Postby starroute » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:30 am

Family tradition says that an ancestor of my husband's around 1800 had double teeth all round. And both my kids had baby teeth that didn't want to come out on their own -- one of them just those in front, the other those in the back as well. I suspect it's retained baby teeth that produce all cases of double teeth and not a mutation.<br><br>As far as red hair goes, I think I've read that the hair of mummies tends to oxidize over the years, producing a reddish color.<br><br>The abnormal height is something else again, though, and not easy to explain away.<br><br>Setting that question aside for the moment, there's been increasing evidence lately that the Native Americans came from all over, and not just (or at all) via the Bering land bridge. One very early migration, perhaps as much as 30,000 years ago, of which the Tierra del Fuegans are a remnant. Some later ones that did come down from Alaska, perhaps by coastal island-hopping. Probably a trans-Pacific migration about 10,000 years ago -- there are strong connections, both genetic and linquistic, between modern Japanese and many of the Pacific Coast tribes.<br><br>There's also evidence for trans-Atlantic migrations -- and a strong suspicion that the Clovis points of America really did stem from the Solutrean stone-working tradition of France which they so closely resemble. The idea is that Europeans at the height of the Ice Age, about 20,000 years ago, may have worked their way along the edge of the Arctic ice pack while hunting marine mammals, until they reached North America.<br><br>The mysterious mitochondrial DNA Haplogroup X, which is found in certain tribes around the Great Lakes in a form which appears to be distantly derived from a form found mainly in Italy, Greece, the Near East, and the Caucasus Mountains -- but only minorly in Western Europe and not at all in East Asia -- is also taken by some to be confirmation of a direct Ice Age connection between Europe and North America.<br><br>Finally, there were the Red Paint People of New England who were contemporary with and possibly influenced by the megalith-builders of the Atlantic Coast of Europe around 5000 years ago. The bow and arrow may have reached the New World as part of the same cultural transmission. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=starroute>starroute</A> at: 9/27/06 1:31 am<br></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby Stephen Morgan » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:56 am

See also giant copper mines, or alternatively Mormons.

Would anyone care to speculate about dolicocephaloids, or the variety of Biblical giants, nephilim and rephaim and so on?
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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