Seth, Channeling and DID

[Dreams End]

I'm open to many things, but I've never been impressed by "channeled" material. I bring this up because someone my wife knows had had a sudden "insight" that she should raise the Seth material with her (channeled by Jane Roberts in the 60's.) The woman was surely well meaning, but started opining that "alters" are just bits of communication with selves from other lifetimes or some such.<br><br>This concerns me for a couple of reasons. One, I get really bothered (probably more than I should) about people coming along and telling Debbie what's going on when they have not the least bit of experience or knowledge on the subject.<br><br>Two, while Debbie does have at least one alter that is not easily explained by her life experience (most of them have very clear roles related to the difficult times she's been through and many of their "births" can be traced fairly precisely. ) and I know that most folks often have a sort of helper, guide or angelic figure in there (and it would be great if she did as well) I really worry about this "spiritualizing" of her situation.<br><br>Specifically, I like to use the slogan "psychology before spirituality". This isn't to say that spirituality isn't important and helpful in the healing process, but really has to do with the very human desire to latch onto spiritual practices and explanations in order to ESCAPE the very tough work that lies ahead. I see Debbie doing this quite a lot, actually. This is why, I think, I began to notice way back in the 80's, when I worked in a bookstore, that so many of the "New Age" types seeking books on spiritual enlightenment were often rude or passive aggressive. Sorry to generalize, and I actually found it amusing.<br><br>Also, those with psychological issues can be very easy to manipulate by others, however well meaning they may be. My sister is in a Christian "cult" ( a split off from "The Way International" but her splinter group has no central authority figure and does not seem to actually have to many cult characteristics. Thankfully, the Way practice of "marking and avoiding" family members who are nonbelievers is not practiced by this splinter group.) My sister has some deep, deep issues. The religious experiences she's had really have been positive for the most part. Much of her destructive behavior was left behind. But now she's in a "holding pattern". The group doesn't believe in looking at the past and trying to sort out issues that may be impinging on her present. And she still drinks like a fish!<br><br>Okay, so back to Seth. I've only skimmed through one of the Seth books. My initial impression was that it was rather vague spiritual platitudes and almost cliche explanations of "reality." I didn't see anything alarming, but that was a long time ago. As you all know, SOME channeled material, such as that of the "nine" rings a lot of alarm bells with me, but given that the central figure in THOSE sessions had intelligence and MKULTRA-like ties, that's understandable. And Ramtha's annoying habit of encouraging followers to invest in J.Z. Knight's racehorses...well, if you fall for that, I guess I can't feel too sorry for you.<br><br>But what about Seth? Are there groups around still that center around the Seth material? And if so, is there evidence that any of them are cultish at all. <br><br>I really hate being the stick in the mud for Debbie when things like this come along. My main concern was that she wants to put her alters into some category that is unrelated to the difficult trauma she is having to face. <br><br>I'm open to a certain amount of possibility in this regard. One therapist we've talked with has warned me that these are "weird" times. She fully understands that trauma leads to Debbie's issues, but also explains that this state also can leave Debbie open to "energy" or "spirits" from outside her own system as well. I'm agnostic about much of this, but I can't help but think that this is a good caution to keep in mind. <br><br>And as I mentioned, Debbie seems to have one alter who speaks a different language with which she isn't familiar. This could be a lot of things. A language she was exposed to early in life. Evidence of "programming" in some kind of way, or even an entity from outside her own system. <br><br>But to be a further stick in the mud, unlike the woman who mentioned Seth, I don't necessarily assume that such an entity is one of the "good guys." That's what you get from reading Jeff's blog every day.<br><br>So, anyone know about Seth? Anyone have thoughts on "entities" attracted to the systems of multiples like Debbie. Any thoughts on phenomena that may be common to DID folks that might SEEM like this is what's going on?<br><br>Discuss.......<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[anotherdrew]

seth is basicly the only chaneled stuff I've been able to take at all seriously. If you want to know about it more I would sugest reading "seth speaks" first. It's fairly remarkable stuff, I'm not aware of anyone doing anything like it at the time, seth was way before mainstream chanelling took off with ramtha type crap.<br><br>Like anything, seth's philosphy could be taken to extreams and/or misunderstood/misaplied and be harmfull possibly tho not very harmful (and a poor understanding of it and an overwillingness to but in can lead to it's over-eager advocates saying some remarkably insensitive things tho) but it could also bring in some empowering new ideas. You can probably find a used copy of the book for a few bucks. Years ago there was a seth related mailing list in operation, and I think there are yearly get-togethers of like minded folks, but it's not a major comercial enterprise, and there's no organisation to so much as pay memberships dues to as far as I know. So it's not cultic at all. It's take it or leave it wisdom I think. <p></p><i></i>

[hanshan]

<br><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>DE</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>will toss this into the mix <br><br>the closest that I'm aware of <br>(& don't follow this stuff) to the Seth<br>phenomenon would be <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.tsl.org/messengers/ecp.asp" target="top">Claire Prophet</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>& her community/cult. There's a generic connection<br>if not an actual <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>descent/lineage</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> type relationship.<br><br>Years ago had some rather close friends who <br>became absorbed, perhaps even obsessed, w/ <br>the whole channeling experience w/ some rather <br>tragic consequences. Their meetings centered around<br>a particular individual but followed the outlines <br>given in a book called <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.michaelteachings.com/books.html" target="top"><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Messages from Michael</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>My friend became fascinated w/ the group & the <br>whole process & figured, well, if this person <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>x</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> can <br>channel, then, ergo, is there is reality to the phenomena,<br>then anybody can channel. So, he set about to teach himself how the system worked. He attracted a rather nasty disincarnate spirit/being that took over his personality & his life, to the utter dismay of his friends & family, & ended up commtting suicide, convinced there was <br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>no</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> human agency to help him. Quite sad, really, as he left<br>behind 6 small children; one of whom I was/am god parent to.<br><br>As far as conflating <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>DID</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> w/ spirituality - <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>utter bunk</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->.Two separate phenomena,<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em> esp</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> if the <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>DID</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->you're referencing is a result of RA or SRA or any of the MK type stuff. That's muddying the waters. <br>Alters are <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>not</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>just bits of communication with selves from other lifetimes or some such</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. Get fairly frantic (or disgusted) upon hearing blather like this.<br><br><br>However,can fully understand why your wife would be attracted to associating the two. But doing so would<br>be to confuse the process of healing/integration.<br><br>Have never seen, read, or heard of channeled material<br>that was worth the paper it was printed on; & actually followed another friend to a channelling session both to humor him & to satisfy my own curiosity.<br><br>& one final thought: another friend who <br>was also aware of this phenomenon that seemed to be infecting a mutual group of our friends, almost as a mind virus(to paraphrase Colin Wilson), commented that all they would succeed in attracting, assuming they managed to attract anything at all, would be low level spirits & who wants to have those types of entities in one's life.<br><br>just some notes from a bygone era, long ago... <br><br><br>... <br> <p></p><i></i>

[Avalon]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>I really hate being the stick in the mud for Debbie when things like this come along. </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Mud can be both grounding, and healing. <br><br>Never forget that.<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Project Willow]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I know that most folks often have a sort of helper, guide or angelic figure in there (and it would be great if she did as well) I really worry about this "spiritualizing" of her situation.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>She does have helpers, and that is not about spirituality, unless she experiences it that way. When I've referred to a helper/guide/transcendant figure, I mean the part of consciousness that remains detached from the trauma. It is the part which goes up to the ceiling or wherever during an event, and witnesses, but does not experience the effects of the trauma. In my experience, their aid is essential to healing. I do know some important folks who would argue with me on the spiritual aspect of helpers, but so far, I see them as another capacity of the human brain, a survival based mechanism that is a component of dissociation. I'm sorry if that was unclear before.<br><br>I like Avalon's comment on mud! I would say beware of attempted manipulation at this point DE.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[anotherdrew]

Seth and Jane Roberts have nothing to do with Clair Profit or any modern new-age self-help enterprises. They also have nothing to do with seeking out and communicating with "entities". Seth was just barely able to communicate though Jane and chanelling was not presented as something just anyone can or should try to do. Here's a nice background article written recently...<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.oracleinsights.com/blog/index.php/2005/12/11/the-seth-material-a-brief-introduction/">www.oracleinsights.com/bl...roduction/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Jane Roberts was possibly one of the most thoughtful, intelligent and self-questioning ‘mediums’ ever to bear the title. She was, at least, one of the more credible among those claiming to channel any form of entity, spirit, personality fragment, higher-dimensional being or extra-terrestrial space creature from the future.<br><br>“Energy personality essence” was Seth’s chosen title.<br><br>The Seth material is voluminous, sometimes dense (the further into the material, the more complex it becomes), but beautifully written and downright bloody fascinating. Yet for all of the enchantment and wonder it provides, what I like even more about it is that it isn’t overly esoteric, nor does it contain anything I would consider too “out there” to take seriously. Though I can be pretty “out there” myself, I’m first and foremost a pragmatist. So while I tend toward a belief in realities, ‘beings’ and levels of consciousness extending beyond the current reaches of my physical senses or rational mind, I don’t consider all material relating to such realities to be, by any means, equal - in terms of quality, accuracy, creativity, or practical value. I do consider the Seth material high up there on most of those counts. Most.<br><br>If your desire is to vastly expand your beliefs about the nature of reality and the self, or even simply to re-ignite already existing beliefs and understandings in these areas, Seth is a wonderful, magical and informative source. His concepts can help you to counter-hypnotize yourself with life-affirming and (for lack of a less overused term) ‘empower’ you a great deal - providing a necessary defense against the social, cultural, political and religious hypnotists barraging us all, day by day, with beliefs that are, shall we say, not so kind or helpful, which keep you feeling powerlessly stuck within the “official” worldview, locked into the robot-like existence that all too often characterises the more mundane levels of reality that we generally refer to as “real life”.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>

[marykmusic]

I am currently reading "The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events" which was one of the later Seth/Jane Roberts books. I read almost all of them back in the late '70's and early '80's, then became overwhelmed. Now I find that the time spent absorbing the material since then, has enabled me to read more while totally understanding the earlier books.<br><br>I do channelling also, but it's more like Jane than JZKnight. Jane didn't get wealthy, asked for information for her readers and passed it on, and in general comported herself as a quality human. How many others can claim that? <br><br>In general, just because some well-meaning but somewhat clueless person suggested "spirituality" as a "reason" for someone's DID, that's like believing that all Indians are holy men, or anyone with black skin can dance. Take the suggestion to read "Seth Speaks" and go from there. If you like it, read more. If not, don't. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>

[Reikimg]

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.barbarabrennan.com/home.html">www.barbarabrennan.com/home.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>You might want to look at this website, they have alot of graduates most likely one in your area.<br>I personally know some people that have graduated,and can say that they do some pretty amazing work. <br> <p></p><i></i>

[AlicetheCurious]

I had to post something in this discussion of Seth and Jane Roberts. Although I am a big skeptic about everything from religion to channeling and ouija boards, I confess that I picked up a battered copy of "The Nature of Personal Reality" around twelve years ago, thinking it was a science fiction novel (believe it or not), and my life has never been the same since.<br><br>Reading this book helped me to make what I can only describe as miraculous changes in my life. It also briefly sparked an interest in New Age and / or other channelers, which quickly fizzled as I found them to be mostly bs or cons designed to make money for their front men rather than to spread valuable knowledge freely.<br><br>I also went out and deliberately bought another Seth book, this time new, (it was "Seth Speaks"), and found it rather flat. To this day, my battered and worn copy of "The Nature of Personal Reality" is one of my most precious possessions.<br><br>There. Was Jane Roberts really channeling an independent entity? Did she suffer from DID? Who knows? Who cares? I'm just grateful I got to read what "Seth" said, and for me, the results speak for themselves. <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

I think that the Seth material really does seem to be different from much of the channeled material out there. It almost seems similar to the woman who "channeled" the "Course in Miracles" material (which I've never read and I think can get a tad "cultee") I think that woman didn't even believe in the materials and was pretty disgusted by the whole thing. That may just be legend.<br><br>So, unless Hanshan was correct about the connection between Profit...err...Prophet and Seth, I don't think I'll worry too much. Hanshan's post was generally excellent and, very sad. I'd love to see a fuller telling of that story. Megabucks screenplay, actually, should anyone try it.<br><br>I'll pick up a copy of a Seth book next time I see one just out of curiosity.<br><br>Thanks for all the input. And I got, PW, that the spiritual guide part had more to do with how the person relates to that part than actually being from "outside" the system. I encourage that. She has an "earth mother" part that may fill this role for her, as her spirituality is very nature based but may be "contaminated" with weirdness from her mom. NO ONE seems able to remember much about good ole Mom in the early days, so it's not really clear.<br><br>Oh, I asked this question before and I'm taking my own thread off topic, but it's SORT OF related. Debbie's grandfather (her mother's father) was one of the first men from the U.S. to study, participate in and describe Hatian voodoo. While everything I know of the man certainly points to someone who did great things (he recorded folk tales from all over the world that might be lost to us today), I do wonder a bit about the Voodoo part, since that does dabble in inducing a kind of dissociative experience. I don't want to stereotype Voodoo, but would be interested in hearing if that's ever been tied into RA style abuse. Just info for now.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[hanshan]

<br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>DE</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> - <br><br>dunno if this board is the space for <br>a fuller telling (or retelling, for me),<br> about my friend Rob<br>& hadn't even thought about this event<br>for years; <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>something</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> in your account<br>of your wife's difficulties & your repsonses <br>triggered my recall & I spent a good deal of time<br>last evening reliving the grim downward spiral,<br>& attempting to determine the cue in your post.<br><br>Stranger than fiction<br><br>As can be seen in the variety of responses<br>for some folks the channneled stuff resonates (e.g., Alice the Curious) & for others it's a limp fish. To each his/her own.<br><br>I have found the classificatory schema presented<br>by yogic systems to be reasonably accurate; i.e.,<br>there is a physical emphasis ( hatha), a devotional<br>orientation ( Bhakti), a mental presentation (raja), etc., & that these systems(obviously) <br>correspond to particular individual personality types.<br>Western spirituality, especially as presented post -Reformation, & that as practiced in America, is predominated by an overly devotional/patriarchal orientation. This eventually mutates into maudlin/superstitious sentimentality. For many, that's sufficient.<br><br> However, for those who live on the edge,<br>a wee bit stodgy & stuffy(not to mention inaccurate).<br><br><br> oh, & <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>DE</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->....<br><br>if you haven't read this it's pretty absorbing - <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684839296/qid=1136392646/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-0537468-5571247?s=books&v=glance&n=283155" target="top">The Serpent and the Rainbow</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><br>.... <p></p><i></i>