Sinister Forces

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Postby Username » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:04 pm

~
You're welcome, to the both of you, and thank you for taking the time to read the ramblings of an old, drug-crazed hippie.

I hadn't given that lsd trip much thought through the years, before arriving here at RI, and then felt a desire to throw it into the mix of speculation and wonderment.

After the initial shock and awe, I more or less, chalked it up to experience, and labeled it a "bad trip" and maybe psychoanalyzed myself as being too paranoid, and then went on my merry way. But things kept pointing back to the incident.

Let me tell you about one of the subsequent trips that took place a year or two after the one described above, because there was a "perception of reality" in it that relates somewhat to the incident with the gentleman/demon in the car that night.

I started coming onto the acid in my Houston apartment, with friends, and my mind shot up and saw me in a square room, surrounded by square rooms. I got up, opened the door and as I walked out into the courtyard, the view from above shot up into the square structure of the courtyard, and as I walked toward the street, the view expanded again, including the square designs of the streets resembling a road map. I was eager to see what would happen once I reached the main drag, but before that could happen, my friends retrieved me and took me back into the apartment.

I wasn't able to relax, because if I sat down, the parts of my body that rested entered a void, a blackness and there were all sorts of things I know not of, gnawing, grabbing and generally being rude to the parts of me that were at rest, so i would quickly stand up and take inventory to make sure I was still in-tact and made an effort to pay close attention to all of me.

But check this out--my field of vision turned into a bubble with very thin walls. Everything I saw made up this bubble and everything on the other side of this thin membrane of vision was blackness, and it was a blackness that was not empty of things. So you see, in the previous acid trip, when this man's arm and hand exited the field of vision, it entered the void and was able to reach through the darkness. At least that's how I interpreted it. What I saw was mostly blackness with only a few bubbles floating about, one of them mine. Who knows, maybe they were all mine.

It was during that acid trip, also, that I made an attempt at one point, to look deep into my dog's eyes to connect minds. And I looked and looked, and he looked back at me, standing there wagging his tail, looking deep into my eyes. We looked at each other for what seemed like a long time, until I finally decided there was nothing there but stupid. My dog was just plain stupid, and that was kind of disappointing. lol

So what do you think? Is there something to it? or is it all just the drug. I'd be interested in hearing other people's stories of what they encountered while tripping.

Back in Kent, there was a group of older hippies that would get together with vials of lsd 25, stacks of grateful dead albums and hang out at Lilac Gardens for days on end. Doing what? Having a good time by the looks of it, but I was too young to be invited along.

Then there were the kids back in high school, who would approach you with that special look in their eyes (kinda glazed over from too much acid the night before) and inquire if you had "Seen the light" because, I guess they met Jesus, or something.

terry
~
Last edited by Username on Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby zhivkov » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:53 am

terry, I love hearing about your experiences-if you have more keep 'em coming! I hardly consider you a rambling, drug crazed old hippie. You and the other interesting people here are why I hope and pray my internet connection never goes out. I really appreciate you writing about these-I wish I had some to share.
I have always wanted to try shrooms, DMT, ayahuasca and other entheogenic substances. As I have become less able to get about and less moneyed-not that I ever was-hehe-I feel like I would almost be suffocated without the interactions and information on RI and a few other places on the 'net. In early 2006 back when I was working I ordered Salvia Divinorum extract through a reputable company. I had the liquid form and heard it is better to smoke it-I just didn't think my overall health would allow me to keep the smoke in long enough to get the effect. I applied the liquid extract twice -nothing happened the first time and the second time I just had a feeling of deep relaxation-which might not even have been the extract. I had heard it was better to have a 'sitter' when doing this-finding a 'sitter' out of the people I know is laughable. I asked my bf if he would watch over me if I were to take the third application-get this not only would he not do it he even said he would beat me if I tried to and demanded to know where the rest of the bottle was-I would not tell him and we had a huge argument (it was our first official break-up and really got going when I suggested to him that you wouldn't ever beat someone you really loved-his temper scares me and I thank high heavens we never moved in together)
Needless to say the small extract bottle is hidden in a closet almost 3 years later and is probably not even usable now-it was over 60 bucks and now I wish I had just had the courage to try the third dose on my own.

For a bit now I have tried to get into lucid dreaming and have had a few experiences-nothing near as great as yours. In one of the dreams I think I may have received a small mundane 'vision' of two things that happened within 24 hours of the dream. In one part of the dream I came out to my kitchen and my coffee pot was empty even tho I knew I had made it and it should be full of coffee-the next morning I was trying in my usual lame way to help my brother with yard work-we went to a circle-k store and they were out of coffee(didn't have any made)very unusual for this type of convenience mart. In another part of the dream the modem on my computer was blinking on and off in a weird sequence-the very next evening of the same day is when my internet connection trouble started-very mundane but maybe a small peak into the future.
Love hearing your experiences-I have gone to the erowid site before and read experiences there people have had with different chemicals.
Best to you as always, terry and I hope you come back soon with more-really really enjoy it-Z (devin)
"you gave me in secret one thing to perceive, the tall blue starry strangeness of being here at all"-Franz Wright
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Postby zhivkov » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 am

Forgot-major bump for the information IanEye gave also-thanks again terry too for the Beth Goobie info-still trying to track down books you gave in the links and information about her. A book I recently read from the library that a lot of people here probably know of but I will reference just in case (looks like another insomnia-pain night-may as well keep going) was Jeremy Narby's The Cosmic Serpent. I won't go into any detail other than saying he wrote about a few fascinating 'experiences' and it was a wonderful short book that would be great for anyone interested in the deep nature of reality and this stunningly mysterious and beautiful universe we live in.
"you gave me in secret one thing to perceive, the tall blue starry strangeness of being here at all"-Franz Wright
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Postby monster » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:04 am

Username wrote:We looked at each other for what seemed like a long time, until I finally decided there was nothing there but stupid.


A similar feeling, regarding myself, is one of my more profound acid-fueled insights. Not that I'm stupid, but that I'm nothing - a vacuum. A pure awareness, who, when the internal dialogue is stilled, is profoundly bored and essentially without meaning.

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Postby Username » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:54 am

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zhivkov, thank you for your encouragement and enthusiasm. I think it's an interesting topic as well, but can certainly understand why people might be reluctant to post about the use of illegal substances on a public forum, and yet at the same time, as you mentioned, there are entire websites devoted to it. I stepped into one briefly once and couldn't get past the impression that it would be a great vehicle for federal agents who are assigned to round up the careless or carefree advocates of drug use. Also felt there were too many mind games going on there and didn't know who to believe.

I apologize if my posts gave you the impression that I approve and/or encourage the use of these substances. If you're an adult, I don't really care one way or the other what you may decide is right for you. I just don't want people to have false expectations, or feel they might be missing out if they decide to keep their wits about them. My daughter happens to be the age I was when I was thrown into jail, and I would die 1000 times over if something like that ever happened to her.

I've been searching google lately to learn more about the alcoholic's DTs. I find it curious there would be widely shared hallucinations of snakes, lizards, rats or whatever, in that, sometimes fatal, state of mind. Looking for the metaphysical explanation of it.

A little over a year ago, I was talking with a friend about beth goobie and the above encounters with drugs (somehow they seem to relate), and I'd like to share with you what she said to me about it. (She is answering an email; my quotes are in black, her replies in dkblue.)

***


To: Username
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007
Subject: Re: Beth G's articles

Hey Terry,


the articles from Beth are fantastic pieces. Mind you, I don't know they're true,
but things like this have certainly entered my personal realm of what's possible.

it's helpful to know that what Beth describes has been seen,
experienced, demonstrated and described by both those who have been
within, and without (witnesses) the events, by many people over the
course of human history

much of it has been conveyed through oral traditions and the practices of
traditional sacred sciences; but there are written accounts as well,
and now we have the beginnings of abstract mathematical/geometric
"descriptions" as well

it has been experienced within traditional sacred practices, through certain artistic
disciplines, by individuals (and a few groups) entirely independent of such formal means,
as well as by persons induced and/or forcibly directed, afflicted, into the experience

extremity is certainly a path and a portal, perhaps the oldest and
most common: if extremity is sought/reached voluntarily, as in a
vision quest, there is neither cause for alarm, nor concern for the
validity and true nature and source of the transforming event, for the
event has waited to be asked, has not crossed volition, not violated a
soul's free will in order to intrude itself

employing certain drugs is another way to engage the experience, but
this is dangerous and for the most part ill advised: without housing
the drug's effects in a larger field of sacred shape/form, balance and
"filtration/ordering," there can be no proper exercise of soul
volition: by using the drug one's ego, one's personality, has said
"yes" only to the drug's portal, which will of its nature be "neutral"
and non-differentiating, at best; under the influence, your soul is
disabled from making any further consent or dissent; this is not a
sound approach or practice

if the extremity comes upon one against one's will, then the soul will
decide how willing it is to receive the transforming experience; or
will choose perhaps to pass from this life; or will choose, rather,
assistance from lesser sources: such persons as Viktor Frankl are
famous examples of those who had extremity visited upon them
and chose both transformation and to live on

extremity and drugs are not the only paths/portals: there are also,
among others, dedication, service, communication, certain practices,
love - there are many ways, but all depend upon the soul's
volition/intention, reverence, and humility, for a good outcome


It's unsettleing to think this type of manipulation to be tradition in
certain circles/families, and at the same time I can see how this
trauma-based MC has managed to influence the general population, built
into the system via child-rearing practices, schools, religions,
movies, etc. We are a fractured, abused, dissociated group of
entranced beings ripe for the picking, so to speak.

well but there it is, the very point and purpose of being human in this world:
to choose reverence; perhaps against all odds, and through long trials,
although not always nor necessarily. One can choose
reverence also through love and joy

whatever can be used for good, in harmony with nature and the cosmos,
in service to divine health and creation, can be inverted and
manipulated to smaller, meaner, foul ends. but, as I said in my little
foray into the discussion of good and evil, those who attempt to harness Creator,
harness Creation, to the morgue cart of their low desire (for power over and control of all Resource), these are not powerful persons at all

if they were, they would need no cruel coercion, no brutal terror, no
artifice nor artificial chemistries to compel service and supply: it
would all be theirs for the wanting

it's not. at all.

these are not powerful persons; but they are dangerous

becos they are desperate, always in total need, and entirely ruthless

so their very stock-in-trade is to deceive others into believing that
they are powerful, very, very powerful, perhaps all-powerful

but they have only the power of death, not life, and must steal the
power of life from Creation, through ... the living

it's a losing game, and they know this, which is why they are
desperately and ruthlessly trying to find some way out of that
inescapable truth, by off loading decay and death onto Creatures
(many, tho not all, human) of Creation/Source that will be kept and
allowed to renew under limits and control (farmed), as a Resource (by
extraction) for their select group, in order that these few might
achieve some form of endless (eternal) Life and ultimate Control

uh, that's the little detail at which they'd rather you didn't look
too closely, lol, cos you might just figure out that ... uh, that
would mean, and does mean, that they're nothing without ... us, their
supposedly powerless victims and potential collaborators, lol

it's we who have the power, the only real power that is endless,
enduring, always capable of renewing: the power of Life and Creation

clearly, to conceal this truth is critical to the interested parties,
and so there is high motivation to usurp and subvert all communication
and schooling of the mind and spirit; but we can choose, we can always
choose, reverence, and eschew the contempt and arrogance and death
dealing that hides behind the deceit

<snip>

of course the dark actors can as easily (often more easily) use our
better nature against us , when our lesser natures do not lead our
hearts; but sooner or later, we do get to choose

we are at once the sleeping princess and the prince: it is our own
kisses that wake us from the entranced slumber, into wakeful love

even those most cruelly, despotically, diabolically, and extremely
"entranced" can, and often, do wake: Beth Goobie is but one of these

anyone can join her

as I like to say, let's not be afraid, shall we


<snip>
~
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Postby zhivkov » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:07 pm

terry thanks so much for the new information-I hope to be back to this thread very soon! I agree with the reasons for your reluctance to post about certain drug related issues. I have issues like these in regards to pain pills myself-I am in a real bind with these as many times I have to take them-however many times I don't and I still do to fight off anxiety/depression-there is no one I hate enough in my life past or present that I would wish these problems on. In the past I was very much an alcoholic the years between 1990-1993 are especially a blur to me as I was drinking so much. Best wishes to you as always!
"you gave me in secret one thing to perceive, the tall blue starry strangeness of being here at all"-Franz Wright
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Postby Username » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:42 am

~
I've been reading some of the LSD trips at the Erowid Experience Vault, and isn't my face red. (although not red enough to use the blushing emoticon.)

Turns out, the bad trips and difficult experiences on file there are lousy with demons, and nearly everyone thinks they're going to die or dies.

I just had one of those classic Ego-Death /with Demon trips.

This poor fellow had an experience much like mine, except the demon was speaking through the man when the cops busted him. (not the easiest to read with it's small white type on a black background)

Erowid is a fascinating collection of drug related information, and seemingly more credible then the site I mentioned above, which i think may have been more of a discussion forum on drugs.

LSD

So much information, so little time.

zhivkov,
sorry to hear about your fragile state, and wish you all the strength and courage to overcome what sounds to be major obstacles placed before you.
Best of luck, keep up the good fight and stop flirting with that strange man in the data dump. (j/k)
terry
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Postby Username » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:43 pm

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re: Demons

Postby Username » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:18 pm

~
I'm currently reading a book on Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) called The Web That Has No Weaver by Ted Kaptchuk, who makes mention of a Chinese physician of the Tang dynasty, Sun Si-miao (590-682 C.E.) and quotes him as saying: people suffer illness "because they do not have love in their life and are not cherished."

Through the magic of Google, we learn that Sun Si-miao is also known for his "13 Ghost Points" in acupuncture, which brings us to the following article by Nate Summers.

(I wasn't sure where to post this article, but thought it might add something to the one-sided discussion I'm having down here, about the possibility of spirits/demons lurking in the spaces between the spaces of our psyches.)

*******

Reality Sandwich


Image

Hungry Ghost Nation
Nate Summers
2-17-09


There is a story that I have heard which probably falls more into the category of legend rather than literal truth, yet still haunts me and seems to explain a great deal about the world we inhabit.

The story goes that during World War II, Japanese soldiers attacked a Daoist Temple in southern China. The site was most likely Dragon-Tiger mountain in Nanning, famous for being the area where Zhang Daoling, the founder of religious Daoism established himself. During the attacks, the Japanese soldiers were said to have broken open a series of jars and bottles which the Daoist priests on the mountain tried valiantly to protect. Inside, the jars were apparently empty, but the Daoists on the mountain looked at the soldiers with a mixture of dread and resignation on their faces in reponse to the deed. Little did the Japanese soldiers realized that these vessels contained Demon Spirits that Daoist priests had trapped over centuries to free humanity from their influence. Later, the priests saw the horrors of World War II and the Cultural Revolution as a result of these negative spirits walking amongst us again.

While this story can be easily dismissed by a modern audience as superstitious nonsense, we live at a very odd moment in history regarding these kinds of stories. For instance, take the simple idea that there are invisible beings that have a profound influence on our lives and that we are meant to have a relationship with such beings. This is an idea that for the vast majority of people through the vast majority of time was seen as true and was a fundamental part of their existence. The Daoist priests mentioned above are just a specific Chinese example of sucha belief.

Looking beyond cultural manifestations of this concept, such as the categories of ghosts, angels, fairies, demons, immortals, or gods, we find that a belief in entities that for the most part we do not see is widespread. It is only a recent product of a rationalist, materialistic worldview that intimates that these beliefs are not only untrue but are also unsophisticated, primitive, and actually a sign of inferiority. Yet even now, in the twenty-first century in modern America, belief in ghosts, angels, fairies, devils, and gods still hangs on. Just check out any bookstore and you will actually find whole areas of the store devoted to this topic.

When exploring the topic of Daoism, the indigenous religion of China, one comes cross some perplexing features of the system that seem contradictory to outsiders. For instance, one of the foundational texts of Daoism, the Daodejing, emphasizes the concept of wuwei or effortless action and the legendary author of the text, Laozi (literally, "the old master") is seen as an embodiement of wuwei. Yet, Daoshi (literally Daoist Teachers or Daoist Masters), the inheritors of both Laozi's and Zhang Daoling's legacy, spent at least some of their time collecting what they believed were powerful demon spirits and trapping them in spirit bottles. It is this paradoxical aspect of Daoism that seems to both repel and attract westerners. I know that it has certainly shaped my experience of Daoism.

Almost everyone I've ever met who has actual read the Daodejing (even really, really bad translations) has been profoundly struck by what it is trying to get across. I recently met a young man, who had been at a Christian university in the south finishing a biblical studies degree, who read the Daodejing in his final year of study. It moved him to such a degree that he left the program and went to China to study martial arts and Daoist meditation.

Yet, how does one reconcile the depth of Laozi with the popular depiction of Daoist priests as sword-wielding, ghost-exorcising, demon hunters as seen in contemporary movie such as Chinese Ghost Story and The Bride With White Hair? Why does America seem to want to embrace the wisdom of the Daodejing and Laozi but is afraid of Zhang Daoling and his demon-quelling, exorcist descendants? I think it's because what Zhang Daoling has to say is a little too scary for most Americans to hear.

For instance, there is a strong and ancient belief in many cultures that as we move through our lives on any specific day we are touched by the presence of many unseen spiritual entities. This is readily a part of Daoist beliefs both ancient and current. Ghosts of the dead wander amongst us. Gods may descend in broad daylight and offer healing, salvation, or teachings. Immortals live in the moutains or hidden in plain sight in the local village offering alchemical teachings to those who are willing to look past simple appearances. These are just a few examples.

In fact, Daoism holds that not only are we surrounded by spirits, but we as human beings are actually a composite of many different spiritual parts. One example of this construct is the seven parts of the Po or corporeal soul, said to dwell in the lungs. The Po is the yin pair of the three different Hun or yang spiritual souls that dwell in the liver. These two are said to separate at death with the Hun ascending to the heavens and the Po descending to the earth. If a person dies violently or prematurely, the Po may become a hungry ghost wandering around bothering the living. And this is just the beginning of the concept of the poly-soul of Daoism.

There is also the shen which dwells in the heart. The shen means either spirit or spirits and is associated with the heavens and often means god or goddess. In the body it refers to the aspect of consicousness connected to the heart. However, sometimes a human's shen is spoken of as having five parts: the aforementioned Hun and Po, as well as the shen of the heart, the yi or intellect/intent of the spleen and pancreas, and the zhi or willpower of the kidneys. It's a wonder that we have any room inside for all of these spirits.

To complicate matters further, in the Maoshan tradition of Daoism, also known as Shangqing Daoism, which is a major influence on the Daozang or Daoist Cannon, there are common meditation techniques to call down into the body over a dozen deities to protect the body from death and illness (See Isabelle Robinet). In fact, this whole tradition is characterised by this kind of calling specific deities into the body both for meditation purposes and as an important part of Daoist ceremony or ritual. And what is one of the main purposes of these meditations and rituals? To protect the practitioner and his or her community from all of the ghosts, demons, and untamed spiritis that roam the world around us.

How is it that the world is so full of spirits? One simple explanation is that everything has a spirit. Therefore, if we simply open up our senses we realized that there is a spirit of the forest, of our house, of the ancestors, of our car, etc. This worldview is often condescendingly called animism by scholars, especially if it comes from an indigenous culture. Simply understood, everything around us, including what we consider to be inanimate, actually has a spirit that can be perceived and communicated with under certain circumstances or by people with those capabilties. Again, while this is a worldview that causes rational materialists to writhe in their seats, it is something that the majority of the world's people have believed through the majority of world history, and if you think that worlview is dying just check out the New Age section of any bookstore.

We are surrounded by many different realms, some of which we might consider heavenly and others more like hells. The barriers between our world and these other worlds are a lot thinner than we might suppose. Immortals may step from the lands of the Queen Mother of the West or the Purple Heaven and appear to a lucky mortal to grant a boon or wish. Or, conversely, Ghost Kings of the land of the dead may grab unsuspecting mortals who stray outside at the wrong time. Similar beliefs pervade Tibetan Buddhism, Medieval Catholicism, and Native North American traditions, though all of them have their own unique terminology and cultural categories (i.e., saints, angels, and devils).

Finally, we come to the dead. According to Daoist soul cosmology, at the time of death, what normally happens is the Hun and the Po separate. The Hun ascends to the heavenly realms and the Po descends into the earth and eventually falls apart. However, other things can happen. For instance, in the case of certain kinds of immortals, the Hun and the Po actually merge at death producing a spiritual body for the immortal to continue existence. Or, if the death is sudden, violent, or tragic, a ghost is produced. These ghosts wander existence perpetually hungry, feeding off our qi or life-force. Depending on who you ask, they are either extremely dangerous and detrimental to humans or more of an irritation and minor hazard. Every year, Daoshi or Daoist Priests, are supposed to conduct a ceremony to help these wandering, hungry ghosts be appeased. The ghosts are ritually fed and then a gate is opened to allow them to move on to a better place. These kinds of ceremonies are still carried out in Taiwan today.

As a modern-day explorer of Daoism living in America, what I found so fascinating about these ideas is that they are way off the radar screen for almost everybody living in this country. This is considered superstitious nonesense of the highest degree, but what if this basic belief of Daoism, of a world full of spirits, is not only possible but is actually completely true?

What I find extra compelling about these ideas is that Daoism is far from being the only tradition that suggests that these kinds of ceremonies of removing ghosts and placing spirit beings back where they belong is a vital aspect of a complete spiritual system. For instance, I've not only had the opportunity to study with Daoist teachers living in America, I have had the great fortune to study with Native North American teachers who carry on powerful lineages of traditional ceremony.

One such teacher (who will remain anonymous and who has passed on to the spirit world himself), taught that one of the primary purposed of the Lakota inipi ceremony (sweat lodge) and chanupa ceremony is to clear away all of the common spirits or trapped ghosts! In fact, regular inipis were considered very important to clear up the spiritual well-being of the participants and help beneficial spirits descend (for the duration of the ceremony) to the site of the ceremony in order to rid the land of ghosts and to place negative spirits in their correct place. Futhermore, I have had two other teachers from other Native American traditions say very similar things, though their specific cultural teachings were different. Basically, they also said that we are in danger of being exposed to ghosts and negative spirits, but they had different ways of clearing these things away. One of the main ways was the burning of aromatic herbs including cedar, juniper, and sage.

There are some startling results that come from these ideas. If ghosts and other negative spiritual entities tend to accumulate over time due to untimely deaths, war, violence, and so forth, and they tend to be attracted to and feed on humans, and we are no longer performing rituals or ceremonies that appease these restless dead spirits and demon-like forces, where does that leave us?

Some of the same teachers from whom I learned about the aspects of Native North American ceremony and Daoist ritual that pertained to releasing trapped spirits and ghosts will in private with close students openly talk about how we live in a world full of hungry ghosts. These are the unappeased dead and other spirits attracted to violence and greed and destruction. Not to mention all of the pissed off spirits of the natural world whose realms have been so ruthlessly torn apart. Not only do we live in a world of hungry ghosts, we are a Hungry Ghost Nation.

When I say Hungry Ghost Nation, there is a mutiplicity of meanings implied. One, as suggested above, is the idea that we are continually walking through a world filled with the unappeased dead, upset nature spirits, and generally dark-intended spirits who feed on us, especially on our negative emotions. Another aspect of being a Hungry Ghost Nation is that we are literally turned into Hungry Ghosts by our very culture and civilization. What better epitaph for a culture where we consume a third of the world's resources (food, oil, material goods) and yet have less than a tenth of the population? How can we not be a Hungry Ghost Nation when everyone is overworked and continually stimulated by electronic goods and no one is comfortable being alone? Finally, perhaps the most chilling aspect of this idea is the combination of the two. There is an old Daoist belief that perpetually exhausting oneself through improper management of our qi or vital energy through overwork, too much sex, constant stimulation, or addiction opens us up to the possibility of being posessed by hungry ghosts or malevolent spirits.

While it may seem as if we've crossed over into the fictional realm of a movie or novel for some readers, I would ask them to consider the following ideas which support the above suppositions.

As a practitioner of Chinsese medicine in modern America, I am faced with the clash of cultural paradigms all the time. This is further complicated by the fact that the form of Chinese medicine we our taught in American Chinese medical schools often very purposively leaves out any older aspects of the medicine that could hint at superstitious or religious beliefs. This is due primarily to the influence of the Communist and cultural revolutions and the influence of the Western scientific paradigm.

However, Chinese medicine is full of examples of famous doctors who wrote classics in the field that are full of exorcistic prescriptions for clearing dead or evil spirits out of their possessed patients. Sun si-miao and Hua To, two of the most famous Chinese physicians of all time, both included this kind of remedy in their works. While it might be easy to dismiss these writings as part of an older paradigm, the problem is that these kinds of remedies are still being used today. And they still work.

I'll give an example. Sun si-miao developed a formula of acupunture points known as the Ghost Points. For the most part, this is a combination of regular acupuncture points used on the body that are given special "ghost names" and then combined together. The names seem to refer to the kind of "ghost illness" they treat, such as the name of "Ghost tongue" or "Ghost Path". There are also a couple of additional points on the underside of the tongue that are included in the traditional list of the thirteen Ghost Points. In many references here in the West, the Ghost Points are dismissed as being traditionally used to treat epilepsy or mania, or simply to calm a person down.

Here's a couple of stories that dismiss that vast oversimplification: a patient in China was showing up to work everyday covered in dirt and mud and looking as if he had been in a street fight. When asked about what had happened, the patient wouldn't say what happened. After this had occurred regularly for some time, co-workers and family members became quite concerned, and so some family members followed him to work one day to see what was happening. It just so happened that this patient happened to pass a graveyard every day on his way to work. As he passed the graveyard, the family members (who were watching from a distance), saw him suddenly start to violently attack the air around him. He was swinging his arms and kicking and punching at something that was "not there." He ended by running past the graveyard and heading to work. Later, the family confronted the patient and found out that every day he was indeed seeing ghosts who attacked him outside the graveyard.

After seeing this happen, the family members did not take the patient to see a Chinese psychiatrist. Nor did they take him to a Western-style M.D. Rather, they took him to what to them was a perfectly accepted norm: a Chinese medical doctor. There is a long tradition of doctors of Chinese medicine being able to handle this kind of problem (and there is a serious lack of practicing Daoists in China these days thanks to the cultural revolution).

The doctor they took the patient to listened to the story, took the patient's pulse, looked at the patient's tongue (a traditional diagnostic technique), and then proceeded to give the patient an acupuncture treatment by using Sun si-miao's ghost points. After one treatment with the ghost points, the ghosts went away. The patient continued work at the same place, walked the same route, and never was bothered by ghosts again. The practitioner who saw this patient is a very famous doctor who practices in Seattle today and has been on the faculty of two major Chinese medical schools in this country.

Now, it is a very strong and reasonable argument to say that this man who had this experience is centered in a very specific cultural paradigm. This paradigm includes the efficacy of Chinese medicine, as well as possibly stories or legends about ghosts that might produce the above situation. A discerning reader might argue that the story's effect is lessened due to the differences in culture between modern China and modern America. What relevance has this story really to those of us who live here in America, in the 21st century?

Well, I think I have a pretty good response. It's another story. While I was practicing Chinese medicine in Tucson, Arizona, an acquaintance of mine decided to see me for some acupuncture. It is always a little awkward to have friends or acquaintances come and see you for medical issues as there are challenges around privacy and creating a space in which the friend-now-patient can truly be at ease and answer some intense personal questions. What complicated this situation further is that this particular young woman clearly had some pretty serious mental health issues. Modern psychiatry might have diagnosed her with moderate to severe anxiety and in Chinese medicine she clearly suffered from what we call Shen or spirit disturbance. The patient had come in for help with some eating issues and with lack of energy. She basically ate very little food except chocolate.

Now, on a side note, anyone who has weird appetites and doesn't eat regular meals or has very strange cravings, in a traditional Chinese medical paradigm, is considered pretty unhealthy and in the world of Sun si-miao and Hua To may be suffering from a serious spiritual issue. She sometimes ate almost a pound of chocolate a day, but she didn't seem to make a connection between what she ate and her lack of energy. The other thing that was very clear to anybody who spent some time talking with the patient was that she was not mentally clear at all. She could not really stay focused on the conversation and her eyes would often look off in a strange direction.

During her initial visit, we talked quite a bit about diet and about her rather traumatic medical history. Finally, I took her pulse and looked at her tongue and put together a treatment plan. The acupuncture point prescription I came up with actually contained a few of the ghost-points. This wasn't intentional on my part. It was just happenstance.

I placed the needles in as gently as I could and left the patient to rest. I came back and adjusted the needles a few times, and the treament lasted somewhere between 20-30 minutes. After the treatment was done, I went it to check on the patient.

She looked quite puzzled as I asked her how she was doing. Then she related the following:

"It was really, really weird. I saw this face of this old man floating on the ceiling. He was looking down at me and he was really mean looking! He kept yelling at me and saying mean things to me. I realized he had been inside me for a long time saying mean things to me. Then he just started to fade away and his face disappeared."

I wasn't sure what to say, but I tried to reassure the patient that this was probably a positive thing. Later, she came back for a few more treatments. After the first treatment, her appetite had completely changed. She was able to eat more regularly and had more energy. Eventually, she was unable to continue treatments due to financial and time constraints.

Now, since she was an acquaintance, I did see her once in a while after the treatments. She still seemed to have quite a bit of anxiety, but several people that we both knew seemed to recognize that something quiet profound had shifted for the patient. It was a lot easier to have a conversation with the her, and I noticed she no longer looked away in random directions while talking.

So, what does this all mean to the reader? It's hard to say. I am reminded of a series of chants that are performed morning and night in Daoist monasteries even to this day. These eight poems or songs are designed to protect the practitioner from spiritual harms caused by the kinds of scenarios described above. They have names like "Purify the Heart-Mind Spiritual Invocation," "Puirfy the Mouth Spiritual Invocation," "Purify Heaven and Earth and Release the Unclean Invocation," and "Golden Light Spiritual Invocation." One effect of consitently chanting these texts is that everything returns to its proper place. The dead stay amongst the dead. The negative spirits are contained. The spirits of earth and heaven become properly aligned. The majestic spirits of the eight directions surround and protect the adept. While the chanting of these invocation has important benefits for the chanter, the benefits brought to the community and the rest of the world may be even more important.

It seems to me that in our current age, while there is great value in the deep wisdom of Laozi's Daodejing or the quirky philosophy of Zhuangzi, perhaps what we really need to is the power of the Zhang Daoling's exorcistic talismans, the ancient power of the Ghost points, and the psycho-spiritual alignment that results from the eight spiritual chants. Until we can really embrace this side of Daoism, I'm not sure there can really be Daoism in America.

Image by dckf_$êr@pH!nX, courtesy of Creative Commons license.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:45 pm

Thanks very much for this.

About the ghosts and demons in bottles at the start, at Dragon-Tiger Mountain ... that idea pops up in the middle east too - Solomon kept ghosts in bottles.

Whether the spirits are real or not is immaterial IMO.

When people do rituals like that the ultimate effect is as if the ritual was real. It might not be, the spirits might not exist, but the ritual means the effects these spirits cause are mitigated to a certain extent.

Smashing the bottles has the effect of undoing the ritual, so even if the spirits are not real, the universe acts as if they are.

Hope that was convoluted and confused enough to make sense.
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Postby §ê¢rꆧ » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:35 am

Hungry Ghost Nation


That's a very spooky thing to contemplate, Username, and not in the usual sense of the word 'spooky' here. Anyway, very interesting article.

I've been reading Jeff's book and it strikes me that he is getting at something similar; I mean I suppose that is obvious to most, but it just hit me, reading so much of his writing in one setting. What I mean is the idea that there are supernatural, sinister forces, beyond our ken, at work in many of the things we study and analyze.

I've always considered the domain of human evil banal and not particularly supernatural, like in the sense it is base and ultimately easily understood. Insanity, maybe not so much, but evil seems like just selfishness and lack of empathy.

I don't even know what I'm getting on about, here. I just wanted to acknowledge your thread and say hi.
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Postby §ê¢rꆧ » Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:11 am

Podcast 172 - “The State of LSD in 2003″
Guest speakers: Earth & Fire Erowid, Ralph Metzner, Stanislav Grof, Nick Sand, and Dave Nichols

172-LSDPanelMS2003Pt2.mp3

or

http://www.matrixmasters.net/blogs/?p=1025 and click the play button

"The first note in that octave [of our cultural transformation], the do, was the discovery of LSD by Albert Hofmann in 1943." –Ralph Metzner

"Just as Hitler used the Reichstag burning, the U.S. government now uses the so-called two wars, the War on Drugs and the War on Terrorism, to fuel fear in the population and establish a police security state." –Ralph Metzner

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Postby OpLan » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:53 pm

Regarding Sinister Forces..
I had the third installment ordered from Trine Day back in early december.After about a month of waiting,they told me they were having a few problems in supply,sorry bout that,it should be out in a couple of weeks max.Nothing till March.When I contacted them this time,they told me it was no longer available.They didn't have to reimburse me because they never took payment.Fortunately I found a copy via amazon.Don't know whats going on with Trine Day.I was going to order the vietnam vet book from them,support a small book business and all that,but not when I get put on hold for 4 months and end up getting their own product from Amazon instead.
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Postby Username » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:00 pm

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Regarding Sinister Forces again..

Happened across this thread, "Sinister Forces" by Peter Levenda
on the very last (first?) page of the Deep Politics sub-forum, dated june-july 2005.

That was about a year and 1/2 before I started this thread about the same topic.

No time to read or comment on it now, but I'll be back. (probably to bitch about how no one bothered to tell me it was there.)
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Re: Sinister Forces

Postby Username » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:01 am

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Did you notice Peter Levenda has started blogging again?

http://tinyurl.com/yj5cb3b

Saturday, January 16. 2010
Pat Robertson's Pact with the Devil


Years ago Pat Robertson, noted televangelist and head of the 700 Club, made a pact with Satan. In exchange for a tediously long life and untold material wealth, Robertson agreed to serve as spokesman for the Devil.

If you are reading this blog, I imagine that you are familiar with my work on the subject. Chapter Fifteen in Volume 2 of Sinister Forces deals specifically with Robertson and his unashamed support for mass murderers such as Taylor of Liberia, Chiluba of Zambia, and Mobutu of Zaire, as well as death squads in Central America. His support was camouflaged by something called Operation Blessing, which was really a conduit for conflict diamonds and not for medical supplies for the desperate people of Africa (in this case, Rwanda and Zaire). Of course, you don't have to take my word for it. My research was based on published reports in Time magazine as well as excellent historical reporting by Sara Diamond in a series of books on the political movement associated with evangelical Christianity.

When Jesus was tempted by the Devil (Matthew 4:1-11, " ... the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me.") he rejected Satan in no uncertain terms. Pat Robertson, however, said in effect "Where do I sign?"

And this past week, he reaffirmed once again his allegiance to the forces of darkness. He actually was able to blame the victims for their oppression once again. Just as he had during Hurricane Katrina (blaming the people of New Orleans for the hurricane, saying it was punishment from God for their licentious ways) he blames the people of Haiti for the earthquake. He specifically said it was a pact with the Devil that the Haitian people made in the 18th century during their revolt against France, a pact they have been paying for ever since. "True story," said Pat.

True story?

(cont. at link)


_______


I like Peter's work and what he chooses to write about, mostly.

I don't suppose it would be considered good form, for me to discuss my feelings about Peter any more than I already have, since he's...like right around the corner, over there...maybe in competition(?) with Jeff in the realms of high weirdness? (idk how that works) And he isn't dead yet, and what if he got mad at me for first spamming his material all over this board, then taking an about face on my position with his possible motivations, suspecting he was indeed Simon and therefore lying about his involvement with the Necronomicon.

Anyway, that's pretty much all I have to say for now.

I like Peter, but I don't trust him.

Your thoughts?
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