Red Haired Giants

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Red Haired Giants

Postby Sepka » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:51 am

Split off so as not to hijack M'sieur leBoeuf's thread...<br><br>Johnny Nemo said: <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>They've found red-headed skeletons all over the world, from Mammoth Caves to Egypt. Many are over 7 and 8 feet tall, and many indigenous peoples have legends about fighting them and some have tales of their "crazy" behavior.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>You sound like you're at least somewhat familiar with the accounts of red-haired giants found in Ohio and Pennsylvania. If you're not, I can look up and post cites. From memory, these were a number of skeletons and mummies independently reported in the 18th and 19th century, most of them between 6 and 8 feet tall. Peculiarly, many of these were reported to have double rows of teeth. The Delaware, who claim to have wiped them out in a war several hundred years earlier, called them Allegaw, and reported them as red-haired. The place-name Allegheny means 'Land of the Allegaw'. None of the remains survive, unfortunately, and I think the attitude of most modern anthropologists is that the giants were a biblically-inspired hoax. <br><br>I'm personally troubled by the fact that all of the skeletons were either lost or destroyed, but on the whole I tend to believe more than disbelieve in the Allegaw. There are too many accounts separated in time and space that have common elements to just ignore them, even if some are likely to have been hoaxes perpetrated by attention-seekers. I'd <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>love</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> to know whether the eastern US has a higher incidence of double teeth in adults than the rest of the world, and whether it can be correlated with hair colour, but if that information exists anywhere, I'm unable to find it.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.ox.ac.uk/blueprint/2000-01/3105/11.shtml">www.ox.ac.uk/blueprint/20...5/11.shtml</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> is an interesting article about how Oxford's people believe that red hair arose in humans around 100K years ago. I recall it being widely (and erroneously) reported at the time that red hair was a Neanderthal trait.<br> <p>-Sepka the Space Weasel</p><i></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby Infernal Optimist » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:44 am

An interesting one from California:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>In 1833 soldiers digging a pit for a powder magazine at Lompock Rancho, California, hacked their way through a layer of cemented gravel and found the skeleton of a man about 3.7 m (12 ft) tall, surrounded by carved shells, huge stone axes, and blocks of porphyry covered with unintelligible symbols. The giant had double rows of upper and lower teeth – a commonly reported feature that is also mentioned in ancient traditions. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>When local Indians began to attach religious significance to the skeleton and artifacts, the authorities ordered them to be secretly reburied.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> The remains of a giant man with double rows of teeth were also dug up on Santa Rosa Island, off the California coast.5</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>From <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/ape2.htm">ourworld.compuserve.com/h...5/ape2.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>And another one from Kossuth, Iowa:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The figures, were each fully ten feet tall even when measured seated in their cross-legged positions. They all faced into the circle with arms folded across their legs. Upon close examination it was seen that they had double rows of teeth in their upper and lower jaws. The foreheads were unusually low and sloping, with exceedingly prominent brows. The skin of the mysterious giants was wrinkled and tough, as though tanned, and the hair of each of them was distinctly red in color.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>From here: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.stangrist.com/giants.htm">www.stangrist.com/giants.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:40 pm

This always got my attention:<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.earth-history.com/_images/axes.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>I'm interested in anything relating to Nephilim discussions. Don't think I recall the double-rowed, red-haired Giants, though.<br><br>What's with the double-row of teeth? Genetic mutation? Cross-breeding?<br><br>With what? <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby DireStrike » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:02 pm

Can I have some more info on that pic, EIAE? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby dude h homeslice ix » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:20 pm

anyone remember pupp from glp? he had a whole section on his forum devoted to this. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby Sepka » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:25 pm

et said: <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>What's with the double-row of teeth?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Mutation, certainly. It's something that does happen from time to time among the general human population, and indeed among mammals in general. It seems to have been a normal occurence among the giant red-haired humans, though.<br><br> <p>-Sepka the Space Weasel</p><i></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:27 pm

It's alledgedly taken in a meuseum somewhere in the Middle East and is attributed to that area's biblical legends, the Nephilim, Sumer, to be specific(I think).<br><br>It's a PITA to locate the actual page it's contained in, cause I long-forgot my original search criteria, but I'm looking for it now. On my way, I ran across a foreign site covering all kinds of crap, many overlaps here. I can't read any of it, but the pictures are interesting:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://weeswaakzaam.punt.nl/index.php?a=2005-10">weeswaakzaam.punt.nl/index.php?a=2005-10</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Nephilim discussions begin about 3/4 of the way down, and have some shots of the 'Starchild' skulls I've never seen before:<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://weeswaakzaam.punt.nl/upload/alienskull6_(Custom).jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://weeswaakzaam.punt.nl/upload/skull2_(Custom).jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>And as for our Giants:<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://weeswaakzaam.punt.nl/upload/reuzenskelet2_(Custom).jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://weeswaakzaam.punt.nl/upload/reuzenbot_(Custom).jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://weeswaakzaam.punt.nl/upload/botjeduim_(Custom).jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://weeswaakzaam.punt.nl/upload/footprint_(Custom).jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:31 pm

Sorry, this is the homepage index of the original picture I posted is stashed in. The site's pretty large, so it's going to be a minute before I locate the source page.<br><br>Here ya go:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.earth-history.com/">www.earth-history.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>re: Enoch's Book of Giants:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.earth-history.com/Pseudepigrapha/book-of-giants.htm">www.earth-history.com/Pse...giants.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=etinarcadiaego@rigorousintuition>et in Arcadia ego</A>  <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.sickle666.com/images/Arcadia.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 9/26/06 11:34 am<br></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:39 pm

Another page discussing Giant bone discoveries: <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.returnofthenephilim.com/GiantBonesDiscoveries.html">www.returnofthenephilim.c...eries.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby 4911 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:43 pm

...and these things were supposed to have taken human wives and made babies?<br><br>babies...<br><br>ok I dont wanna seem rude here but, errrm....can someone say "stretch" of more than the imagination?<br><br>fertilization might be doable without inserting whatever grotesque godzilla cocks they may have had, but birth...eeehmm.... <br><br>...unless...maybe it would account for their supposed behaviour actually. What kind of fucked up psychology must someone have who blew his mom to bits whilst being born?<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 9/26/06 11:52 am<br></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:50 pm

The stories would have been handed down using terminology that was limited to the teller's and listener's understanding.<br><br>You don't really expect to see anything about actual Genetics in Genesis, do you?<br><br>For the Axes, they were discovered in Sumer, and are housed(or were, more likely now) in a Bagdad Museum:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.earth-history.com/Earth-05.htm">www.earth-history.com/Earth-05.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby chiggerbit » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:02 pm

A little bit off topic, but I have a book around here, a collection of letters by the early 1800's artist George Catlin. He spent time with the Mandan tribe, and he made considerable mention about how different the tribe was from other tribes, not only physically--many hair colors, including an odd silver--but also language. He speculated that many of their words sounded similar to corresponding Welsh words. I think the same letters are here:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/catlin/index.html">www.xmission.com/~drudy/m...index.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br><br>This is the specific link:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/catlin/letter13.html">www.xmission.com/~drudy/m...ter13.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>"....The Mandans are certainly a very interesting and pleasing people in their personal appearance and manners; differing in many respects, both in looks and customs, from all other tribes which I have seen. They are not a warlike people; for they seldom, if ever, carry war into their enemies' country; but when invaded, shew their valeur and courage to be equal to that of any people on earth. Being a small tribe, and unable to contend on the wide prairies with the Sioux and other roaming tribes, wile are ten times more numerous; they have very judiciously located themselves in a permanent village, which is strongly fortified, and ensures their preservation. By this means they have advanced further in the arts of manufacture; have supplied their lodges more abundantly with the comforts, and even luxuries of life, than any Indian nation I know of. The consequence of this is, that this tribe have taken many steps ahead of other tribes in manners and retinements (if I may be allowed to apply the word refinement to Indian life); and are therefore familiarly (and correctly) denominated, by the Traders and others, who have been amongst them, "the polite and friendly Mandans". <br><br>There is certainly great justice in the remark; and so forcibly have I been struck with the peculiar ease and elegance of these people, together with the diversity of complexions, the various colours of their hair and eyes; the singularity of their language, and their peculiar and unaccountable customs, that I am fully convinced that they have sprung from some other origin than that of the other North American tribes, or that they are an amalgam of natives with some civilized race. Here arises a question of very great interest and importance for discussion; and, after further familiarity with their character, customs, and traditions, if I forget it not, I will eventually give it further consideration. Suffice it then, for the present, that their personal appearance alone, independant of their modes and customs, pronounces them at once, as more or less, than savage. <br><br>A stranger in the Mandan village is first struck with the different shades of complexion, and various colours of hair which he sees in a crowd about him; and is at once almost disposed to exclaim that "these are not indians". <br><br>There are a great many of these people whose complexions appear as light as half breeds; and amongst the women particularly, there are many whose skins are almost white, with the most pleasing symmetry and proportion of features; with hazel, with grey, and with blue eyes, -- with mildness and sweetness of expression, and excessive modesty of demeanour, which rentier them exceedingly pleasing and beautiful. <br><br>Why this diversity of complexion I cannot tell, nor call they themselves account for it. Their traditions, so fat as I have yet learned them, afford us no information of their having had any knowledge of white men before the visit of Lewis and Clarke, made to their village thirty-three years ago Since that time there have been but very Few visits from white men to this place, and surely not enough to have changed the complexions and the customs of a nation. And I recollect perfectly well that Governor Clarke told me, before I started For this place, that I would find the Mandans a strange people and half white. <br><br>The diversity in the colour of hair is also equally as great as that in the complexion; for in a numerous group of these people (and more particularly amongst the females, who never take pains to change its natural colour, as the men often do), there may be seen every shade and colour of hair that can be seen in our own country, with the exception of red or auburn, which is not to be found. <br><br>And there is yet one more strange can probably be seen nowhere else accounted for, other than it is a freak or order of Nature, for which she has not seen fit to assign a reason. There are very many, of both sexes, and of every age, from infancy to manhood and old age, with hair of a bright silvery grey; and in some instances almost perfectly white. <br><br>This singular and eccentric appearance is much oftener seen among the women than it is with the men; for many of the latter who have it, seem ashamed of it, and artfully conceal it, by filling their hair with glue and black and red earth. The women, on the other hand, seem proud of it, and display it often in an almost incredible profusion, which spreads over their shoulders and falls as low as the knee. I have ascertained, on a careful enquiry, that about one in ten or twelve of the whole tribe are what the French call "cheveux gris", or greyhairs; and that this strange and un-accountable phenomenon is not the result of disease or habit; but that it is unquestionably a hereditary character which runs in families, and indicates no inequality in disposition or intellect. And by passing this hair through my hands, as I often have, I have found it uniformly to be as coarse and harsh as a horse's mane; differing materially from the hair of other colours, which amongst the Mandans, is generally as fine and as soft as silk....." <br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 9/26/06 12:34 pm<br></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:09 pm

The only reason I spammed this thread with the Ancient stuff is there's at least a slight connection between the two, due to common findings of both periods, like sloped foreheads, 6 digit fingers, toes, etc.<br><br>No references I recall reading describing the Nephilim, Anunnaki, or Anakim as having red hair, though, but that doesn't mean it's not out there somewhere, just that I haven't run across it.<br><br>I'm very interested in this topic and have tried to raise it more than once in the past here at RI; if anyone has anything else to contribute to it, please feel welcome to do so.<br><br>Sepka, I'd like to see your links when it's conveniant for you.<br><br> <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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Re: Red Haired Giants

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:45 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>...and these things were supposed to have taken human wives and made babies?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>The alledged transcript of the Book of Giants includes the following:<br><br>"1Q23 Frag. 9 + 14 + 15 2( . . . ) they knew the secrets of ( . . . ) 3( . . . si)n was great in the earth ( . . . ) 4( . . . ) and they killed manY ( . . ) 5( . . . they begat) giants ( . . . ) The angels exploit the fruifulness of the earth. 4Q531 Frag. 3 2( . . . everything that the) earth produced ( . . . ) ( . . . ) the great fish ( . . . ) 14( . . . ) the sky with all that grew ( . . . ) 15( . . . fruit of) the earth and all kinds of grain and al1 the trees ( . . . ) 16( . . . ) beasts and reptiles . . . (al)l creeping things of the earth and they observed all ( . . . ) |8( . . . eve)ry harsh deed and ( . . . ) utterance ( . . . ) l9( . . . ) male and female, and among humans ( . . . ) <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The two hundred angels choose animals on which to perform unnatural acts, including, presumably, humans. 1Q23 Frag. 1 + 6 ( . . . two hundred) 2 donkeys, two hundred asses, two hundred . . . rams of the) 3 flock, two hundred goats, two hundred ( . . . beast of the) 4 field from every animal, from every (bird . . . ) 5( . . . ) for <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>miscegenation</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> ( . . . ) The outcome of the demonic corruption was violence, perversion, and a brood of monstrous beings.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br>Compare Genesis 6:4. 4Q531 Frag. 2 ( . . . ) they defiled ( . . . ) 2( . . . they begot) giants and monsters ( . . . ) 3( . . . ) they begot, and, behold, all (the earth was corrupted . . . ) 4( . . . ) with its blood and by the hand of ( . . . ) 5(giant's) which did not suffice for them and ( . . . ) 6( . . . ) and they were seeking to devour many ( . . . ) 7( . . . ) 8( . . . ) the monsters attacked it. "<br><br>Wikipedia:<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Miscegenation</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> (Latin miscere "to mix" + genus "kind") is the mixing of different ethnicities or races, especially in marriage, cohabitation, or sexual relations. Interracial marriage or interracial dating may be more common in contemporary usage. While the English word has a history of ethnocentrism, the Spanish, Portuguese and French words, mestizaje, miscigenação and métissage, connote a positive ethno-cultural melting-pot.<br>__________________________<br><br>Insemination isn't exactly a 21st century science and doesn't require an act of copulation, and if the purpose of cross-breeding is the offspring itself, the survival of the host womb wouldn't neccessarily have been a factor. Hell, the women might not have been able to pass them through the birth canal at all, maybe they were exclusively Ceaserian deliveries. Inversely, A fetus need only be carried 3/4 of the way to full term; it can easily survive a premature delivery, so it's even concievable that at that early a stage, the adult size was disproportionate to the fetus, allowing a normal delivery.<br><br>The book describes breeding with animals as well, which is where you see 'miscegenation' applied, obviously not in a reference to a 'positive ethno-cultural melting-pot'.<br><br>The tablet appears to be describing manipulations only understood up to a certain point by it's authors, which is perfectly understandable to me. <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=etinarcadiaego@rigorousintuition>et in Arcadia ego</A>  <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.sickle666.com/images/Arcadia.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 9/26/06 12:47 pm<br></i>
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chiggerbit's post

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:50 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And by passing this hair through my hands, as I often have, I have found it uniformly to be as coarse and harsh as a horse's mane; differing materially from the hair of other colours, which amongst the Mandans, is generally as fine and as soft as silk....."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Fascinating. <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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