Project Camelot

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Project Camelot

Postby Attack Ships on Fire » Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:14 pm

First, a link to go visit if you have an hour or two to kill and are interested in UFO conspiracies: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://projectcamelot.org/">projectcamelot.org/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>So as far as I can tell we have two individuals that have set up a website where they are hosting videos and transcripts of interviews they conduced with notable celebs from UFO culture, like John Lear, Dan Burisch and Gary McKinnon, to name a few.<br><br>I skipped through the Lear video interview and I've read the Henry Deacon transcript. My personal thoughts are that no matter what any so-called insider of UFO knowledge has to say, it might as well be science fiction until some tangible proof is offered too.<br><br>Take for example John Lear. In every instance where someone stands behind what Lear has to say about soul collectors on the Moon, ancient alien buildings scattered across the solar system and 4 dead Apollo 1 astronauts instead of 3, the supporter pulls out Lear's list of credentials before throwing the reader/listener into Lear's theories. My biggest beef with John Lear is that he'll tell you that he doesn't care if you believe him or not but he refuses to supply any kind of proof or even additional information as to where he was told his information in the first place. In the end there's no difference between what John Lear is trying to sell you to believe in as what the Heaven's Gate head honcho wanted to sell you on.<br><br>And ultimately that is the entire problem with all of this UFO backstory information/disinformation: there's no way to prove any of it, so it all gets swirled around and re-told again and again and in slightly different fashions. Look at what Al Bielek said about his supposed Montauk Project; there's absolutely no evidence that he's telling anything more than a fanciful story yet because the Montauk story has been around for a decade-15 years, it's being added to the lexicon of other supposed UFO tell all informants to bolster their claims (see the transcript with Henry Deacon to see what I mean.)<br><br>I know there are amazing craft flying in our skies that don't match up with what I know airplanes can do because I've seen them. I strongly suspect, based on the evidence and eyewitness claims from other UFO sightings stretching back 50 years, that some of these craft are under the control of non-terrestrial intelligences. But apart from that, I couldn't tell you if they were manifestations of a collective unconsciousness, people from Zeta Reticuli or some kind of strange organism.<br><br>I think it's swell that the Project Camelot people are recording these interviews and sharing them with people like me interested in the UFO phenomena, but I can't help but think that this is also compounding the problem. We will likely never find out what the real truth is behind what are UFOs until we can separate the chaff from the wheat, but the proliferation of sites like SERPO.org, Lear's ongoing discussions on Above Top Secret, Richard Hoagland's latest "proof" of ancient Martian cities and a seemingly unending stream of anonymous "insiders" talking about what Alpha Centuri really looks like is turning the serious study of Ufology into nothing more than white noise.<br><br>I don't know...I just see decades after decades of unending mystery and ever deepening and fanciful sci-fi stories in the future for us. Does anyone else out there that's interested in this area feel the same way? What are your thoughts on the stuff on Project Camelot's site? I'd like to get a UFO-related discussion happening again in RigInt.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:38 am

"The UFO is an idea intended to confound science..."<br><br>"The phrase 'artifice of eternity' evokes a strangely mechanistic yet spiritualistic future into which the archetype of the UO is calling humanity."<br><br>"Death isn't simple extinction. The universe does not build up such complex forms as ourselves without conserving them in some astonishing and surprising wayt that relates to the intuitions we have from the psychedelic experience. the UFO comes from this m,urky region, beyond the end of history, beyond the end of life. Its both suprahistorical and supraorganic. It is uncanny, alien; it raises the hair on the back of ones neck. Its both the apotheosis and antithesis of the monkey's journey toward mind. It is the mind revealing itself."<br><br>From my copy of the archaic revival by T McKenna<br><br>Its from a chapter called: "A conversation over saucers." An interview with Will Noffke for the winter 1989 issue of Revision magazine. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:16 am

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Does anyone else out there that's interested in this area feel the same way?"</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Raising hand.<br><br>I have very little interest in and respect for the dominent current of contemporary UFOlogy, at least as it's represented in North America. There is such an entanglement of disinformation and fantasy that I'd rather ignore it altogether, except that the study of disinformation has its own merits. (Identifying misdirection can help calibrate one's compass.)<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Fat Lady Singing » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:03 pm

I'm definitely interested in the subject, but feel that, of the major figures in ufology today, Richard Dolan has pretty much had the last word on the subject for now (until his next book, that is).<br><br>But I would disagree with you about the lack of "tangible evidence," because there is lots of tangible evidence. I guess it's all in how you interpret the evidence. You know, are those little pebbly things they regularly remove from people who claim to be abductees signs of abduction, or of old road rash? What do those odd readings on various "-meters" at landing sites mean? Was that twisted bit of metal recovered from the sands of New Mexico really made using a heretofore unknown manner of smelting, and if so, does that indicate alien visitation?<br><br>Like parapolitical studies, ufology is largely a matter of reading the traces. All we see, metaphorically and sometimes even literally, are footprints on a beach after the waves have washed over them a few times. From these traces, we must deduce who--or what-- walked there, how they came to be on that particular beach at that particular time, by what method they arrived, and why they came. Frustrating, but intriguing enough to keep me trying to solve those unsolved mysteries. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:09 pm

I find it hard to take any of them seriously.<br><br>I guess I read too much Nexus in the early 90s. Cos it seems that all those people sound the same when you talk to them, their sentences seem to follow the same structure, same idioms and similar stuff. Even today I find that.<br><br>Reading UFO researchers these days, I am inlined to switch off after about 10 lines. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:09 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Like parapolitical studies, ufology is largely a matter of reading the traces."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Very aptly put, I think.<br><br>Dolan's first volume does a great job of stripping the subject of so much of the rubbish it's collected over the years, and establishing that it's been a matter of grave interest to the US military and intelligence agencies. Nick Redfern's <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>On the Trail of the Saucer Spies</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> is a smaller work, but valuable for the same reasons.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby marykmusic » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:04 am

I'm hoping Dragon gets time to weigh in on this subject; he's been a serious student of UFOlogy since the early '60's. Among the things he's told me:<br><br>1) UFO Magazine is a CIA rag. <br><br>2) The people who really know something are gagged in some way, however extreme it may be. Most "experts" are out there to misdirect as well as keep an eye out for likely leader types, and squash them.<br><br>3) A whole lot of sightings are our own guys, the deep-cover Air Force programs (like the very real Area 51) and George Adamski stuff. Shoot, the Nazis built a convincing saucer during WWII.<br><br>4) Aliens do exist, of course: the Good Guys, the Bad Guys, and the Neutral Observers. But they really don't belong here. We can tell them to go away, and they will.<br><br>There's more, of course. The truth is Out There. But it takes a lot of wading through... poop... to find it.<br><br>Anyone want me to send a photo I took here in our yard, of three classic Adamski-style saucers? Email me: marykcroft@msn.com --MaryK <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Fat Lady Singing » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:06 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Nick Redfern's On the Trail of the Saucer Spies is a smaller work, but valuable for the same reasons.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Isn't Redfern the man who was, for a time, in charge of the UK's version of Project Blue Book? He's always struck me as a level-headed fellow. I appreciate it when investigors actually investigate, as opposed to pontificate. The people who aren't afraid to say, "I don't know exactly what's going on but here's what I <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>do</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> know," are the ones I admire. Must be why I read RI! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:13 am

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Isn't Redfern the man who was, for a time, in charge of the UK's version of Project Blue Book?"</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>I <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>think</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> that's Nick Pope. I don't believe Redfern has worked on the inside, though he does seem to have good contacts. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby NewKid » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:48 am

Jeff, what do you make of the mysterious Bob Lazar? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Project Camelot

Postby marykmusic » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:51 am

I attended (and spoke) at a UFO conference in Rachel, Nevada (near Area 51 in May of 2003. George Knapp, the reporter for the Las Vegas TV station who "discovered" Lazar, talked about him. <br><br>What I got was that yes, he really did work there, and much of his information was factual about that base. But personally, when the government wanted to smear him as an unreliable witness, it wasn't difficult because he was most certainly not an Impeccable Warrior. The story I found tells much: <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3369879&nav=menu102_1_4_1" target="top">Story here.</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> --MaryK<br> <p></p><i></i>
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