by Dreams End » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:40 pm
proldic, you make some good points but you are still, in part, complaining about things that Jeff has not made against the rules. The only thing he "banned" was the use of "disinfo agent." you wanna call someone a nazi, you can do that...continuing to realize of course that your fund of knowledge is ahead of most readers here so explanations of why you are calling someone out are always welcome (it gets repetitive, I know.) <br><br>But I think you are wrong about one thing...the term "agent". I think 99/100 people here would interpret that word to mean someone posting disinfo in an official capacity. Getting that paycheck, in other words. Those who are spreading the propaganda of various neo-fascist ideologies (maybe crypto-fascist is a better word since they will rarely be forthright with their ideology.) but aren't working for the government are not "agents" in the sense most of us understand it. <br><br>As to your "style"...well, gosh...I get frustrated because I could take some of your most angry posts...change about 5 words without losing either the context or anger and there would be nothing in there that could possibly deflect from the substance of your argument. I'm not sayin you have to do that, just that I think you have a lot to offer that gets lost. I'm not talking, by the way, about protecting the feelings of the posters you are going after. I'll have more to say about that at the bottom. I'm talking about all the other readers who don't always share your level of knowledge and lose the message when the side issue of namecalling or agent-baiting gets brought up. anyway, I'm saying that more as a writer than anything else. <br><br>Now, all that said, let me put my own cards on the table here. This board has attracted a substantial subgroup of anti-Semite ideologues. some, I imagine, are in fact caught up in the fact that there're a lot of sophisticated sites out there that blend fact and fiction and they wade into these sites without some sense of the history of rightwing conspiracy theory and without a lot of context (and I guess they don't know many Jewish people either.) That's why I posted my guide to evaluating sources, which some STILL took as an attempt at censorship. truly bizarre.<br><br> But there are others here who are pretty aware of what their beliefs represent. These are the ones who argue censorship when someone points out the genesis of their theories and their relationship to Nazi ideology, the very thing we allegedly seek to combat. Why they argue censorship, I don't know. I keep getting accused of it. I've yet to ban anyone from this site, because...see...it's not my board and I don't have the authority to do that. It is simply not possible for me, or proldic or anyone else to "censor" anyone. And for that matter, since this is Jeff's "house" so to speak, he can censor anyone he wants. Free speech means you can start your own board, not that you can say whatever you want on someone else's. Even with that, he doesn't have the time or inclination to do much of that. <br><br>I honestly don't know if it's worth dealing with these crypto-fascist posters. The only reason I bother is because there are so many lurkers who don't post here and who may not be aware of how this all works. I have few illusions of dissuading those who feel there are Jews at the heart of all the world's evil from their delusions. But usually what I try to do is quote from the sources themselves that these folks rely on. There's simply no way to argue that. If Eustace Mullens has, on his website, a sentence about how the slaves were so much happier before emancipation, and you read that, and verify that he said it and still want to quote Mullens or his buddy Skolnick...well, you've made your perspective crystal clear for everyone. <br><br>A larger point that keeps getting lost amidst these accusations is that there is a pretty sophisticated network of these internet sites, that track back both to racist ideologues and larouche. But I don' t think I'll be able to post much on that (Did anyone see Makow's "I've been thinking more and more that Larouche has the answers" post?). I'll just get jumped on by these guys who think that freedom of speech is all about naming all the Jewish bad guys they can think of. The issue will get lost. <br><br>As for Jeff, I have to say, I'd like some more from him on this. He can't go and get a list of sites which are or are not anti-Semitic. that's way beyond what he has time to do. But I'd like some posts about this side of conspiracy theory from him. I'd like to see him, frankly, write an article or two that shows an awareness of crypto-fascist conspiracy theory and how it fits into the larger picture of trying to sort through all of this. He doesn't need to call out individual posters but I think it would be very helpful for them to know that he has an opinion on this.<br><br>Sadly, proldic, you are the one who alerted me to Chip Berlet and suspicions of him. That kinda sucks because often when I'm researching groups, I find info on his site. Sometimes, with luck, he's quoting source material and with more luck there are links directly to that material (happened with early racist Larouche quotes...there was a scan of the actual article and so it kinda ended the debate about Larouche as a primary source.) I try not to quote him directly but I guess I need to research him further.<br><br>Sorry for the long post. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
