Internet neutrality may be dead says senator

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Internet neutrality may be dead says senator

Postby dugoboy » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:29 pm

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Internet_neutrality_may_be_dead_Republican_0615.html" target="top"><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">Internet neutrality may be dead says senator</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Internet neutrality may be dead, Republican senator says <br><br>RAW STORY<br>Published: Thursday June 15, 2006 <br><br><br>Google and other Internet companies are unlikely to prevail in the Senate on legislation to require ``network neutrality,'' a key Republican lawmaker said today, which was carried in a brief by the Mercury News. Brief follows.<br><br>#<br>The House of Representatives already has voted against rules that would forbid high-speed Internet providers such as AT&T and Comcast from charging extra for priority access to their networks.<br><br>`I believe we'll have a similar vote on the floor of the Senate onnet neutrality,' '' said Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens, chairman of the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, according to a Bloomberg News report.<br><br>Some high-speed Internet providers have said charging for priority access is necessary to justify the huge investments in their networks. Internet companies such as Google, Yahoo and eBay, however, say ``net neutrality'' is needed to ensure continuing online innovation.<br><br>ok so i did a little research on wiki. heres some interesting info:<br><br>On Network Netrality<br><br>Previously, thousands of ISPs had access to the telephone network. Now, with no broadband telecommunications carrier service avaiable, there are generally only two Internet broadband providers in a residential market: the cable Internet provider and the DSL Internet provider. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Cable ISPs and the DSL ISPs have market power and have both the incentive and opportunity to discriminate with regard to content and applications used over their networks. The AT&T CEO has declared that Google should no longer get a free ride, and should pay AT&T in order to be delivered to AT&T's customers. This is a dramatic departure from 100 years of telecommunictions carrier history.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> This has led to the argument in favor of network neutrality and a return to the common carrier principals that networks should not be able to discriminate with regard to content nor be liable for content.<br><br><br>Most of the major internet application companies are advocates of neutrality regulations, including IAC/InterActiveCorp, Ebay, Amazon, Yahoo!, Earthlink and especially Google. Software giant Microsoft has also taken a stance in support of regulation. Non-profits in support include Moveon.org, Consumer Federation of America, AARP [6], American Library Association, Public Knowledge, the Media Access Project, Free Press, the Christian Coalition[7], TechNet[8] and others.<br><br><br>Network neutrality regulation is strongly opposed by the Bell companies and by some major cable companies. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>They view non-discrimination as compelled speech prohibited by the First Amendment because they think that cases like Chesapeake and Potomac and even FCC v. Turner stands for the rule <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline"><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>that Telcos and Cablecos are First Amendment speakers, and as such cannot be compelled to promote speech they disagree with</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> (welcome to 1984)<br><br>The United States Supreme Court has ruled in Miami Herald Publishing Co. v. Tornillo <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>that first amendment speakers may not be compelled to put someone else's speech on their platform.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> In Miami Herald it was a newspaper. Cable cos and Telcos want to assert a free speech right to avoid open access that common carriers are obligated to provide. If the access provider is a Telco, it <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>would argue that the Chesapeake and Potomac case settles the matter for granting telcos free speech rights, but as they get right of way access for free, they may be obligated by local municipalities.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> This is why they are going to Congress to get federal preemption. This is truly a novel and interesting question of how to classify telephone and cable companies. <p>___________________________________________<br>"BUSHCO aren't incompetent...they are COMPLICIT." -Me<br><br>"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act" -George Orwell</p><i></i>
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Re: Internet neutrality may be dead says senator

Postby AlicetheCurious » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:19 pm

This bizarro idea that corporations have the same constitutional rights as citizens do has sneaked into people's minds as a reasonable notion, but it's not. For example, a media conglomerate that owns hundreds of radio stations, a television network, a movie studio and dozens of newspapers, although it employs perhaps tens of thousands of citizens, only trumpets the opinions and perspective of a very few top executives. <br><br>But those perhaps half-a-dozen (sometimes even fewer) executives, then can use their enormous platform to drown out the voices of other citizens, who might far outnumber them but are effectively left with no voice.<br><br>This is a perfect example of hijacking constitutional guarantees, such as the US 1st Amendment, that were only meant to apply to people, and are supposed to protect people's civil and human rights, then turning around and cynically using them specifically to deny those same rights to the vast majority of citizens.<br><br>Is it that they're so smart, or are most people so dumb? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Internet neutrality may be dead says senator

Postby nomo » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:28 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Is it that they're so smart, or are most people so dumb?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>You already answered that question. Most people have been left unaware of this. <p></p><i></i>
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but that bizzaro idea

Postby TroubleFunk » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:37 pm

But that "bizarro idea" (and it IS exactly that) is codified into our laws. It's not just idea, it's fact. It should be reversed. I'm shocked that we haven't all risen up as one and ruined these companies like they so richly deserve to be ruined. You're right, most people are shocked, appalled, when it's pointed out to them. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: but that bizzaro idea

Postby AlicetheCurious » Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:46 pm

Perhaps a ray of light? Or is it too late and the constitution doesn't matter any more anyway?<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1226-04.htm">www.commondreams.org/views02/1226-04.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: but that bizzaro idea

Postby NewKid » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:24 pm

Not an expert on this at all, but a couple of points here. That articles got some of the basics on the story. But there are actually different things at work here. <br><br>The Santa Clara case was very quickly cited by the Supreme Court subsequently for the proposition that corporations were "persons" under the 14th amendment and it has been subsequently reaffirmed a bunch of times. Overturning a case or legal doctrine is much more difficult than saying the case was wrongly decided. You have to weigh a bunch of other factors as well, such as how much have people relied on this as the state of the law. Many cases Supreme Court members think are wrong (e.g. Roe v. Wade perhaps) they would uphold for reasons of stare decisis. So the odds of actually getting Santa Clara and its progeny overturned are virtually zero given the power of corporations over the judiciary and how much the entire society has become revolved around the notion of corporate "personhood." <br><br>However, corporations are not "persons" in every situation where the word is used in the Constitution. For example, they are for purposes of the 14th amendment's due process and equal protection clause and they are for the 5th amendment's due process, but they aren't for purposes of the 5th amendment's right against self-incrimination (which is part of the same sentence and uses the same reference to the word "person" as the due process clause in the 5th amendment!). They also aren't persons under either article 4's privileges and immunities clause or the 14th amendment's privileges or immunities clause. <br><br>Now in relation to the first amendment, you always have to ask who is the "state" actor, i.e. the states or the federal government? If it's the state government, then the bill of rights applies to restrict the states through the 14th amendment's due process clause and so corporations are protected that way since they have been deemed "persons" surreptitiously by Santa Clara and subsequent adoption through the caselaw. <br><br>But if it's the federal government action, you don't even need the 14th amendment at all. The first amendment applies of its own force without Santa Clara coming into play at all. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . ." Note we don't have the word "person" here as a textual argument and there are some good policy arguments to include corporations under the first amendment's speech protections. Moreover, that's well settled law is not about to ever be overturned. <br><br>Now, the Miami Herald v. Tornillo case, I can't remember, but may have had more to do with it being the press and so protected under the freedom of the press clause (obviously corps will have protection under the freedom of the press clause). The cable cos aren't the press really, so that's not a very good policy justification it seems to me at first glance. Indeed, the opposite point could be made that the marketplace of ideas will be restricted without net neutrality. (I'm out of my depth here on the caselaw and I haven't read FCC v. Turner in a long time). But First amendment law is very much made up by the judges, there's no textual guidance on what the boundaries are, and the original intent of the framers is vastly different than what we have today or what we would want (it was much more restrictive than what we have). <br><br>So bottom line, yes, Santa Clara was a corrupt decision, and yes corporations should probably not be "persons" under the 14th amendment (or at least there is a very good argument against it using traditional notions of constitutional analysis if deciding the issue for the first time) but it won't be overturned and it's a separate question from whether corporations can or should have protection from the federal govt's actions under the first amendment. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: but that bizzaro idea

Postby NewKid » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:38 pm

Not an expert on this at all, but a couple of points here. That Common Dreams article got the basics on the story. But there are actually different things at work here. <br><br>The Santa Clara case was very quickly cited by the Supreme Court subsequently for the proposition that corporations were "persons" under the 14th amendment and it has been subsequently reaffirmed a bunch of times. Overturning a case or legal doctrine is much more difficult than saying the case was wrongly decided. You have to weigh a bunch of other factors as well, such as how much have people relied on this as the state of the law. Many cases Supreme Court members think are wrong (e.g. Roe v. Wade perhaps) they would uphold for reasons of stare decisis. So the odds of actually getting Santa Clara and its progeny overturned are virtually zero given the power of corporations over the judiciary and how much the entire society has become revolved around the notion of corporate "personhood." <br><br>However, corporations are not "persons" in every situation where the word is used in the Constitution. For example, they are for purposes of the 14th amendment's due process and equal protection clause and they are for the 5th amendment's due process, but they aren't for purposes of the 5th amendment's right against self-incrimination (which is part of the same sentence and uses the same reference to the word "person" as the due process clause in the 5th amendment!). They also aren't "citizens" under either article 4's privileges and immunities clause or the 14th amendment's privileges or immunities clause. <br><br>Now in relation to the first amendment, you always have to ask who is the "state" actor, i.e. the states or the federal government? If it's the state government, then the bill of rights applies to restrict the states through the 14th amendment's due process clause and so corporations are protected that way since they have been deemed "persons" surreptitiously by Santa Clara and subsequent adoption through the caselaw. <br><br>But if it's the federal government action, you don't even need the 14th amendment at all. The first amendment applies of its own force without Santa Clara coming into play at all. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . ." Note we don't have the word "person" here as a textual argument and there are some good policy arguments to include corporations under the first amendment's speech protections. Moreover, that's well settled law is not about to ever be overturned. <br><br>Now, the Miami Herald v. Tornillo case, I can't remember, but may have had more to do with it being the press and so protected under the freedom of the press clause (obviously corps will have protection under the freedom of the press clause). The cable cos aren't the press really, so that's not a very good policy justification it seems to me at first glance. Indeed, the opposite point could be made that the marketplace of ideas will be restricted without net neutrality. (I'm out of my depth here on the caselaw and I haven't read FCC v. Turner in a long time). But First amendment law is very much made up by the judges, there's no textual guidance on what the boundaries are, and the original intent of the framers is vastly different than what we have today or what we would want (it was much more restrictive than what we have). <br><br>So bottom line, yes, Santa Clara was a corrupt decision, and yes corporations should probably not be "persons" under the 14th amendment (or at least there is a very good argument against it using traditional notions of constitutional analysis if deciding the issue for the first time) but it won't be overturned and it's a separate question from whether corporations can or should have protection from the federal govt's actions under the first amendment.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=newkid@rigorousintuition>NewKid</A> at: 6/15/06 5:46 pm<br></i>
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Re: but that bizzaro idea

Postby NewKid » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:54 pm

Scroll down to Justice Rehnquist's dissent in this case. This is one of the few references to the Santa Clara issue that I've seen in modern cases. <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://laws.findlaw.com/us/435/765.html" target="top">laws.findlaw.com/us/435/765.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: but that bizzaro idea

Postby greencrow0 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:00 pm

If the US makes the Internet subject to its unconstitutional laws...and takes away its neutrality...<br><br>Then the rest of the world will just have to start it's own Internet and that would be a GOOD thing. My point is, they cannot have a monopoly on the concept of an Internet...They might make THIS internet unattractive for individuals seeking an alternate source of information...but that will just spawn other Internets...see?<br><br>GC <p></p><i></i>
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Re: but that bizzaro idea

Postby NewKid » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:26 am

Alice, if you're interested in the Supreme Court's thinking, that case I cited has the probably the most thorough debate among the Supreme Court members about corporate protection of the bill of rights in relation to the first amendment. (Needless to say, tremendous amounts have been written on the subject by legal scholars.)<br><br><br>From Justice Powell's majority (note he's the author of the infamous "Powell memo"<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/powell_memo_lewis.html" target="top">reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/powell_memo_lewis.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->)<br> <br> <br> <br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The court below framed the principal question in this case as whether and to what extent corporations have First Amendment [435 U.S. 765, 776] rights. We believe that the court posed the wrong question. The Constitution often protects interests broader than those of the party seeking their vindication. The First Amendment, in particular, serves significant societal interests. The proper question therefore is not whether corporations "have" First Amendment rights and, if so, whether they are coextensive with those of natural persons. Instead, the question must be whether 8 abridges expression that the First Amendment was meant to protect. We hold that it does. <br><br><br>A <br><br>The speech proposed by appellants is at the heart of the First Amendment's protection. <br><br><br>"The freedom of speech and of the press guaranteed by the Constitution embraces at the least the liberty to discuss publicly and truthfully all matters of public concern without previous restraint or fear of subsequent punishment. . . . Freedom of discussion, if it would fulfill its historic function in this nation, must embrace all issues about which information is needed or appropriate to enable the members of society to cope with the exigencies of their period." Thornhill v. Alabama, 310 U.S. 88, 101 -102 (1940). <br><br>The referendum issue that appellants wish to address falls squarely within this description. In appellants' view, the enactment of a graduated personal income tax, as proposed to be authorized by constitutional amendment, would have a seriously adverse effect on the economy of the State. See n. 4, supra. The importance of the referendum issue to the people and government of Massachusetts is not disputed. Its merits, however, are the subject of sharp disagreement. <br>As the Court said in Mills v. Alabama, 384 U.S. 214, 218 (1966), "there is practically universal agreement that a major purpose of [the First] Amendment was to protect the free [435 U.S. 765, 777] discussion of governmental affairs." If the speakers here were not corporations, no one would suggest that the State could silence their proposed speech. It is the type of speech indispensable to decisionmaking in a democracy, 11 and this is no less true because the speech comes from a corporation rather than an individual. 12 The inherent worth of the speech in terms of its capacity for informing the public does not depend upon the identity of its source, whether corporation, association, union, or individual. <br><br>The court below nevertheless held that corporate speech is protected by the First Amendment only when it pertains directly to the corporation's business interests. In deciding whether this novel and restrictive gloss on the First Amendment comports with the Constitution and the precedents of this Court, we need not survey the outer boundaries of the Amendment's protection of corporate speech, or address the abstract question whether corporations have the full measure of rights that individuals enjoy under the First Amendment. 13 [435 U.S. 765, 778] The question in this case, simply put, is whether the corporate identity of the speaker deprives this proposed speech of what otherwise would be its clear entitlement to protection. We turn now to that question. <br><br><br>B <br>The court below found confirmation of the legislature's definition of the scope of a corporation's First Amendment rights in the language of the Fourteenth Amendment. Noting that the First Amendment is applicable to the States through the Fourteenth, and seizing upon the observation that corporations "cannot claim for themselves the liberty which the Fourteenth Amendment guarantees," Pierce v. Society of Sisters, 268 U.S. 510, 535 (1925), the court concluded that a corporation's First Amendment rights must derive from its property rights under the Fourteenth. 14 [435 U.S. 765, 779] <br><br>This is an artificial mode of analysis, untenable under decisions of this Court. <br><br><br>"In a series of decisions beginning with Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652 (1925), this Court held that the liberty of speech and of the press which the First Amendment guarantees against abridgment by the federal government is within the liberty safeguarded by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment from invasion by state action. That principle has been followed and reaffirmed to the present day." Joseph Burstyn, Inc. v. Wilson, 343 U.S. 495, 500 -501 (1952) (footnote omitted) (emphasis supplied). [435 U.S. 765, 78<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 0] --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Freedom of speech and the other freedoms encompassed by the First Amendment always have been viewed as fundamental components of the liberty safeguarded by the Due Process Clause, see Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652, 666 (1925) (opinion of the Court); id., at 672 (Holmes, J., dissenting); NAACP v. Alabama ex rel. Patterson, 357 U.S. 449, 460 (195<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ; Stromberg v. California, 283 U.S. 359, 368 (1931); De Jonge v. Oregon, 299 U.S. 353, 364 (1937); Warren, The New "Liberty" Under the Fourteenth Amendment, 39 Harv. L. Rev. 431 (1926), and the Court has not identified a separate source for the right when it has been asserted by corporations. 15 See, e. g., Times Film Corp. v. Chicago, 365 U.S. 43, 47 (1961); Kingsley Int'l Pictures Corp. v. Regents, 360 U.S. 684, 688 (1959); Joseph Burstyn, supra. In Grosjean v. American Press Co., 297 U.S. 233, 244 (1936), the Court rejected the very reasoning adopted by the Supreme Judicial Court and did not rely on the corporation's property rights under the Fourteenth Amendment in sustaining its freedom of speech. 16 [435 U.S. 765, 781] <br><br>Yet appellee suggests that First Amendment rights generally have been afforded only to corporations engaged in the communications business or through which individuals express themselves, and the court below apparently accepted the "materially affecting" theory as the conceptual common denominator between appellee's position and the precedents of this Court. It is true that the "materially affecting" requirement would have been satisfied in the Court's decisions affording protection to the speech of media corporations and corporations otherwise in the business of communication or entertainment, and to the commercial speech of business corporations. See cases cited in n. 14, supra. In such cases, the speech would be connected to the corporation's business almost by definition. But the effect on the business of the corporation was not the governing rationale in any of these decisions. None of them mentions, let alone attributes significance to, the fact that the subject of the challenged communication materially affected the corporation's business. <br><br>The press cases emphasize the special and constitutionally recognized role of that institution in informing and educating the public, offering criticism, and providing a forum for discussion and debate. 17 Mills v. Alabama, 384 U.S., at 219 ; see [435 U.S. 765, 782] Saxbe v. Washington Post Co., 417 U.S. 843, 863 -864 (1974) (POWELL, J., dissenting). But the press does not have a monopoly on either the First Amendment or the ability to enlighten. 18 Cf. Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S., at 51 n. 56; [435 U.S. 765, 783] Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, 395 U.S. 367, 389 -390 (1969); New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254, 266 (1964); Associated Press v. United States, 326 U.S. 1, 20 (1945). Similarly, the Court's decisions involving corporations in the business of communication or entertainment are based not only on the role of the First Amendment in fostering individual self-expression but also on its role in affording the public access to discussion, debate, and the dissemination of information and ideas. 19 See Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, supra; Stanley v. Georgia, 394 U.S. 557, 564 (1969); Time, Inc. v. Hill, 385 U.S. 374, 389 (1967). Even decisions seemingly based exclusively on the individual's right to express himself acknowledge that the expression may contribute to society's edification. Winters v. New York, 333 U.S. 507, 510 (194<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> . <br><br>Nor do our recent commercial speech cases lend support to appellee's business interest theory. They illustrate that the First Amendment goes beyond protection of the press and the self-expression of individuals to prohibit government from limiting the stock of information from which members of the public may draw. A commercial advertisement is constitutionally protected not so much because it pertains to the seller's business as because it furthers the societal interest in the "free flow of commercial information." Virginia State Bd. of Pharmacy v. Virginia Citizens Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748, 764 (1976); see Linmark Associates, Inc. v. Willingboro, 431 U.S. 85, 95 (1977). 20 [435 U.S. 765, 784] <br><br><br>C <br>We thus find no support in the First or Fourteenth Amendment, or in the decisions of this Court, for the proposition that speech that otherwise would be within the protection of the First Amendment loses that protection simply because its source is a corporation that cannot prove, to the satisfaction of a court, a material effect on its business or property. The "materially affecting" requirement is not an identification of the boundaries of corporate speech etched by the Constitution itself. Rather, it amounts to an impermissible legislative prohibition of speech based on the identity of the interests that spokesmen may represent in public debate over controversial issues and a requirement that the speaker have a sufficiently great interest in the subject to justify communication. <br><br> . . .<br><br><br>Preserving the integrity of the electoral process, preventing corruption, and "sustain[ing] the active, alert responsibility [435 U.S. 765, 789] of the individual citizen in a democracy for the wise conduct of government" 27 are interests of the highest importance. Buckley, supra; United States v. Automobile Workers, 352 U.S. 567, 570 (1957); United States v. CIO, 335 U.S. 106, 139 (194<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> (Rutledge, J., concurring); Burroughs v. United States, 290 U.S. 534 (1934). Preservation of the individual citizen's confidence in government is equally important. Buckley, supra, at 27; CSC v. Letter Carriers, 413 U.S. 548, 565 (1973). <br><br>Appellee advances a number of arguments in support of his view that these interests are endangered by corporate participation in discussion of a referendum issue. They hinge upon the assumption that such participation would exert an undue influence on the outcome of a referendum vote, and - in the end - destroy the confidence of the people in the democratic process and the integrity of government. According to appellee, corporations are wealthy and powerful and their views may drown out other points of view. If appellee's arguments were supported by record or legislative findings that corporate advocacy threatened imminently to undermine democratic processes, thereby denigrating rather than serving First Amendment interests, these arguments would merit our consideration. Cf. Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, 395 U.S. 367 (1969). But there has been no showing that the relative voice of corporations has been overwhelming or even significant in influencing referenda in Massachusetts, 28 or that [435 U.S. 765, 79<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 0] --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> there has been any threat to the confidence of the citizenry in government. Cf. Wood v. Georgia, 370 U.S. 375, 388 (1962). <br><br>Nor are appellee's arguments inherently persuasive or supported by the precedents of this Court. Referenda are held on issues, not candidates for public office. The risk of corruption perceived in cases involving candidate elections, e. g., United States v. Automobile Workers, supra; United States v. CIO, supra, simply is not present in a popular vote on a public issue. 29 To be sure, corporate advertising may influence the outcome of the vote; this would be its purpose. But the fact that advocacy may persuade the electorate is hardly a reason to suppress it: The Constitution "protects expression which is eloquent no less than that which is unconvincing." Kingsley Int'l Pictures Corp. v. Regents, 360 U.S., at 689 . We noted only recently that "the concept that government may restrict the speech of some elements of our society in order [435 U.S. 765, 791] to enhance the relative voice of others is wholly foreign to the First Amendment . . . ." Buckley, 424 U.S., at 48 -49. 30 Moreover, the people in our democracy are entrusted with the responsibility for judging and evaluating the relative merits of conflicting arguments. 31 They may consider, in making their [435 U.S. 765, 792] judgment, the source and credibility of the advocate. 32 But if there be any danger that the people cannot evaluate the information and arguments advanced by appellants, it is a danger contemplated by the Framers of the First Amendment. Wood v. Georgia, supra. In sum, "[a] restriction so destructive of the right of public discussion [as 8], without greater or more imminent danger to the public interest than existed in this case, is incompatible with the freedoms secured by the First Amendment." 33 <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br><br>Here's Burger (note he rejects my reading of Tornillo above, but this is highly debated in first amendment circles.)<br> <br> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>MR. CHIEF JUSTICE BURGER, concurring. <br><br>I join the opinion and judgment of the Court but write separately to raise some questions likely to arise in this area in the future. [435 U.S. 765, 796] <br><br>A disquieting aspect of Massachusetts' position is that it may carry the risk of impinging on the First Amendment rights of those who employ the corporate form - as most do - to carry on the business of mass communications, particularly the large media conglomerates. This is so because of the difficulty, and perhaps impossibility, of distinguishing, either as a matter of fact or constitutional law, media corporations from corporations such as the appellants in this case. <br><br>Making traditional use of the corporate form, some media enterprises have amassed vast wealth and power and conduct many activities, some directly related - and some not - to their publishing and broadcasting activities. See Miami Herald Publishing Co. v. Tornillo, 418 U.S. 241, 248 -254 (1974). Today, a corporation might own the dominant newspaper in one or more large metropolitan centers, television and radio stations in those same centers and others, a newspaper chain, news magazines with nationwide circulation, national or worldwide wire news services, and substantial interests in book publishing and distribution enterprises. Corporate ownership may extend, vertically, to pulp mills and pulp timberlands to insure an adequate, continuing supply of newsprint and to trucking and steamship lines for the purpose of transporting the newsprint to the presses. Such activities would be logical economic auxiliaries to a publishing conglomerate. Ownership also may extend beyond to business activities unrelated to the task of publishing newspapers and magazines or broadcasting radio and television programs. Obviously, such far-reaching ownership would not be possible without the state-provided corporate form and its "special rules relating to such matters as limited liability, perpetual life, and the accumulation, distribution, and taxation of assets . . . ." Post, at 809 (WHITE, J., dissenting). <br><br>In terms of "unfair advantage in the political process" and "corporate domination of the electoral process," post, at 809-810, it could be argued that such media conglomerates as I describe [435 U.S. 765, 797] pose a much more realistic threat to valid interests than do appellants and similar entities not regularly concerned with shaping popular opinion on public issues. See Miami Herald Publishing Co. v. Tornillo, supra; ante, at 791 n. 30. In Tornillo, for example, we noted the serious contentions advanced that a result of the growth of modern media empires "has been to place in a few hands the power to inform the American people and shape public opinion." 418 U.S., at 250 . <br><br>In terms of Massachusetts' other concern, the interests of minority shareholders, I perceive no basis for saying that the managers and directors of the media conglomerates are more or less sensitive to the views and desires of minority shareholders than are corporate officers generally. 1 Nor can it be said, even if relevant to First Amendment analysis - which it is not - that the former are more virtuous, wise, or restrained in the exercise of corporate power than are the latter. Cf. Columbia Broadcasting System v. Democratic National Comm., 412 U.S. 94, 124 -125 (1973); 14 The Writings of Thomas Jefferson 46 (A. Libscomb ed. 1904) (letter to Dr. Walter Jones, Jan. 2, 1814). Thus, no factual distinction has been identified as yet that would justify government restraints on the right of appellants to express their views without, at the same time, opening the door to similar restraints on media conglomerates with their vastly greater influence. <br><br>Despite these factual similarities between media and nonmedia corporations, those who view the Press Clause as somehow conferring special and extraordinary privileges or status on the "institutional press" - which are not extended to those [435 U.S. 765, 798] who wish to express ideas other than by publishing a newspaper - might perceive no danger to institutional media corporations flowing from the position asserted by Massachusetts. Under this narrow reading of the Press Clause, government could perhaps impose on nonmedia corporations restrictions not permissible with respect to "media" enterprises. Cf. Bezanson, The New Free Press Guarantee, 63 Va. L. Rev. 731, 767-770 (1977). 2 The Court has not yet squarely resolved whether the Press Clause confers upon the "institutional press" any freedom from government restraint not enjoyed by all others. 3 <br><br>I perceive two fundamental difficulties with a narrow reading of the Press Clause. First, although certainty on this point is not possible, the history of the Clause does not suggest that the authors contemplated a "special" or "institutional" privilege. See Lange, The Speech and Press Clauses, 23 UCLA L. Rev. 77, 88-99 (1975). The common 18th century understanding of freedom of the press is suggested by Andrew Bradford, a colonial American newspaperman. In defining the nature of the liberty, he did not limit it to a particular group: <br><br><br>"But, by the Freedom of the Press, I mean a Liberty, within the Bounds of Law, for any Man to communicate to the Public, his Sentiments on the Important Points of [435 U.S. 765, 799] Religion and Government; of proposing any Laws, which he apprehends may be for the Good of his Countrey, and of applying for the Repeal of such, as he Judges pernicious. . . . <br><br>"This is the Liberty of the Press, the great Palladium of all our other Liberties, which I hope the good People of this Province, will forever enjoy . . . ." A. Bradford, Sentiments on the Liberty of the Press, in L. Levy, Freedom of the Press from Zenger to Jefferson 41-42 (1966) (emphasis deleted) (first published in Bradford's The American Weekly Mercury, a Philadelphia newspaper, Apr. 25, 1734). <br><br>Indeed most pre-First Amendment commentators "who employed the term `freedom of speech' with great frequency, used it synonomously with freedom of the press." L. Levy, Legacy of Suppression: Freedom of Speech and Press in Early American History 174 (1960). <br>Those interpreting the Press Clause as extending protection only to, or creating a special role for, the "institutional press" must either (a) assert such an intention on the part of the Framers for which no supporting evidence is available, cf. Lange, supra, at 89-91; (b) argue that events after 1791 somehow operated to "constitutionalize" this interpretation, see Bezanson, supra n. 3, at 788; or (c) candidly acknowledging the absence of historical support, suggest that the intent of the Framers is not important today. See Nimmer, supra n. 3, at 640-641. <br><br>To conclude that the Framers did not intend to limit the freedom of the press to one select group is not necessarily to suggest that the Press Clause is redundant. The Speech Clause standing alone may be viewed as a protection of the liberty to express ideas and beliefs, 4 while the Press Clause [435 U.S. 765, 80<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 0] --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> focuses specifically on the liberty to disseminate expression broadly and "comprehends every sort of publication which affords a vehicle of information and opinion." Lovell v. Griffin, 303 U.S. 444, 452 (193<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> . 5 Yet there is no fundamental distinction between expression and dissemination. The liberty encompassed by the Press Clause, although complementary to and a natural extension of Speech Clause liberty, merited special mention simply because it had been more often the object of official restraints. Soon after the invention of the printing press, English and continental monarchs, fearful of the power implicit in its use and the threat to Establishment thought and order - political and religious - devised restraints, such as licensing, censors, indices of prohibited books, and prosecutions for seditious libel, which generally [435 U.S. 765, 801] were unknown in the pre-printing press era. Official restrictions were the official response to the new, disquieting idea that this invention would provide a means for mass communication. <br><br>The second fundamental difficulty with interpreting the Press Clause as conferring special status on a limited group is one of definition. See Lange, supra, at 100-107. The very task of including some entities within the "institutional press" while excluding others, whether undertaken by legislature, court, or administrative agency, is reminiscent of the abhorred licensing system of Tudor and Stuart England - a system the First Amendment was intended to ban from this country. Lovell v. Griffin, supra, at 451-452. Further, the officials undertaking that task would be required to distinguish the protected from the unprotected on the basis of such variables as content of expression, frequency or fervor of expression, or ownership of the technological means of dissemination. Yet nothing in this Court's opinions supports such a confining approach to the scope of Press Clause protection. 6 Indeed, the Court has plainly intimated the contrary view: <br><br><br>"Freedom of the press is a `fundamental personal right' which `is not confined to newspapers and periodicals. It necessarily embraces pamphlets and leaflets. . . . The press in its historic connotation comprehends every sort of publication which affords a vehicle of information and opinion.' . . . The informative function asserted by representatives of the organized press . . . is also performed by lecturers, political pollsters, novelists, academic researchers, and dramatists. Almost any author may quite accurately assert that he is contributing to the flow [435 U.S. 765, 802] of information to the public . . . ." Branzburg v. Hayes, 408 U.S. 665, 704 -705 (1972), quoting Lovell v. Griffin, supra, at 450, 452. <br><br>The meaning of the Press Clause, as a provision separate and apart from the Speech Clause, is implicated only indirectly by this case. Yet Massachusetts' position poses serious questions. The evolution of traditional newspapers into modern corporate conglomerates in which the daily dissemination of news by print is no longer the major part of the whole enterprise suggests the need for caution in limiting the First Amendment rights of corporations as such. Thus, the tentative probings of this brief inquiry are wholly consistent, I think, with the Court's refusal to sustain 8's serious and potentially dangerous restriction on the freedom of political speech. <br><br>Because the First Amendment was meant to guarantee freedom to express and communicate ideas, I can see no difference between the right of those who seek to disseminate ideas by way of a newspaper and those who give lectures or speeches and seek to enlarge the audience by publication and wide dissemination. "[T]he purpose of the Constitution was not to erect the press into a privileged institution but to protect all persons in their right to print what they will as well as to utter it. `. . . the liberty of the press is no greater and no less . . .' than the liberty of every citizen of the Republic." Pennekamp v. Florida, 328 U.S. 331, 364 (1946) (Frankfurter, J., concurring). <br><br>In short, the First Amendment does not "belong" to any definable category of persons or entities: It belongs to all who exercise its freedoms. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Here are the non-Rehquist dissents (mostly liberal justices) <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>MR. JUSTICE WHITE, with whom MR. JUSTICE BRENNAN and MR. JUSTICE MARSHALL join, dissenting. <br><br><br> <br> . . .<br><br>I <br><br>There is now little doubt that corporate communications come within the scope of the First Amendment. This, however, is merely the starting point of analysis, because an examination of the First Amendment values that corporate expression furthers and the threat to the functioning of a free society it is capable of posing reveals that it is not fungible with communications emanating from individuals and is subject to restrictions which individual expression is not. Indeed, what some have considered to be the principal function of the First Amendment, the use of communication as a means of self-expression, self-realization, and self-fulfillment, is not at all [435 U.S. 765, 805] furthered by corporate speech. 3 It is clear that the communications of profitmaking corporations are not "an integral part of the development of ideas, of mental exploration and of the affirmation of self." 4 They do not represent a manifestation of individual freedom or choice. Undoubtedly, as this Court has recognized, see NAACP v. Button, 371 U.S. 415 (1963), there are some corporations formed for the express purpose of advancing certain ideological causes shared by all their members, or, as in the case of the press, of disseminating information and ideas. Under such circumstances, association in a corporate form may be viewed as merely a means of achieving effective self-expression. But this is hardly the case generally with corporations operated for the purpose of making profits. Shareholders in such entities do not share a common set of political or social views, and they certainly have not invested their money for the purpose of advancing political or social causes or in an enterprise engaged in the business of disseminating news and opinion. In fact, as discussed infra, the government has a strong interest in assuring that investment decisions are not predicated upon agreement or disagreement with the activities of corporations in the political arena. <br><br>Of course, it may be assumed that corporate investors are united by a desire to make money, for the value of their investment to increase. Since even communications which have no purpose other than that of enriching the communicator have some First Amendment protection, activities such as advertising and other communications integrally related to the operation of the corporation's business may be viewed as a means of furthering the desires of individual shareholders. 5 This unanimity of purpose breaks down, however, when corporations make expenditures or undertake activities designed [435 U.S. 765, 806] to influence the opinion or votes of the general public on political and social issues that have no material connection with or effect upon their business, property, or assets. Although it is arguable that corporations make such expenditures because their managers believe that it is in the corporations' economic interest to do so, there is no basis whatsoever for concluding that these views are expressive of the heterogeneous beliefs of their shareholders whose convictions on many political issues are undoubtedly shaped by considerations other than a desire to endorse any electoral or ideological cause which would tend to increase the value of a particular corporate investment. This is particularly true where, as in this case, whatever the belief of the corporate managers may be, they have not been able to demonstrate that the issue involved has any material connection with the corporate business. Thus when a profitmaking corporation contributes to a political candidate this does not further the self-expression or self-fulfillment of its shareholders in the way that expenditures from them as individuals would. 6 <br><br>The self-expression of the communicator is not the only value encompassed by the First Amendment. One of its functions, often referred to as the right to hear or receive information, is to protect the interchange of ideas. Any communication of ideas, and consequently any expenditure of funds which makes the communication of ideas possible, it [435 U.S. 765, 807] can be argued, furthers the purposes of the First Amendment. This proposition does not establish, however, that the right of the general public to receive communications financed by means of corporate expenditures is of the same dimension as that to hear other forms of expression. In the first place, as discussed supra, corporate expenditures designed to further political causes lack the connection with individual self-expression which is one of the principal justifications for the constitutional protection of speech provided by the First Amendment. Ideas which are not a product of individual choice are entitled to less First Amendment protection. Secondly, the restriction of corporate speech concerned with political matters impinges much less severely upon the availability of ideas to the general public than do restrictions upon individual speech. Even the complete curtailment of corporate communications concerning political or ideological questions not integral to day-to-day business functions would leave individuals, including corporate shareholders, employees, and customers, free to communicate their thoughts. Moreover, it is unlikely that any significant communication would be lost by such a prohibition. These individuals would remain perfectly free to communicate any ideas which could be conveyed by means of the corporate form. Indeed, such individuals could even form associations for the very purpose of promoting political or ideological causes. 7 <br><br>I recognize that there may be certain communications undertaken by corporations which could not be restricted without impinging seriously upon the right to receive information. In the absence of advertising and similar promotional activities, for example, the ability of consumers to obtain information relating to products manufactured by corporations [435 U.S. 765, 808] would be significantly impeded. There is also a need for employees, customers, and shareholders of corporations to be able to receive communications about matters relating to the functioning of corporations. Such communications are clearly desired by all investors and may well be viewed as an associational form of self-expression. See United States v. CIO, 335 U.S. 106, 121 -123 (194<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> . Moreover, it is unlikely that such information would be disseminated by sources other than corporations. It is for such reasons that the Court has extended a certain degree of First Amendment protection to activities of this kind. 8 None of these considerations, however, are implicated by a prohibition upon corporate expenditures relating to referenda concerning questions of general public concern having no connection with corporate business affairs. <br><br> . . .<br><br> The governmental interest in regulating corporate political communications, especially those relating to electoral matters, also raises considerations which differ significantly from those governing the regulation of individual speech. Corporations are artificial entities created by law for the purpose of furthering certain economic goals. In order to facilitate the achievement of such ends, special rules relating to such matters as limited liability, perpetual life, and the accumulation, distribution, and taxation of assets are normally applied to them. States have provided corporations with such attributes in order to increase their economic viability and thus strengthen the economy generally. It has long been recognized, however, that the special status of corporations has placed them in a position to control vast amounts of economic power which may, if not regulated, dominate not only the economy but also the very heart of our democracy, the electoral process. Although Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976), provides support for the position that the desire to equalize the financial resources available to candidates does not justify the limitation upon the expression of support which a restriction upon individual contributions entails, 9 the interest of Massachusetts and the many other States which have restricted corporate political activity is quite different. It is not one of equalizing the resources of opposing candidates or opposing positions, but rather of preventing institutions which have been permitted to amass wealth as a result of special advantages extended by the State for certain economic purposes from using that wealth to acquire an unfair advantage in the political process, especially where, as here, the issue involved has no material connection with the business of the corporation. The State need not permit its own creation to consume it. Massachusetts could [435 U.S. 765, 81<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 0] --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> permissibly conclude that not to impose limits upon the political activities of corporations would have placed it in a position of departing from neutrality and indirectly assisting the propagation of corporate views because of the advantages its laws give to the corporate acquisition of funds to finance such activities. Such expenditures may be viewed as seriously threatening the role of the First Amendment as a guarantor of a free marketplace of ideas. Ordinarily, the expenditure of funds to promote political causes may be assumed to bear some relation to the fervency with which they are held. Corporate political expression, however, is not only divorced from the convictions of individual corporate shareholders, but also, because of the ease with which corporations are permitted to accumulate capital, bears no relation to the conviction with which the ideas expressed are held by the communicator. 10 <br><br>The Court's opinion appears to recognize at least the possibility that fear of corporate domination of the electoral process would justify restrictions upon corporate expenditures and contributions in connection with referenda but brushes this interest aside by asserting that "there has been no showing that the relative voice of corporations has been overwhelming or even significant in influencing referenda in Massachusetts," ante, at 789, and by suggesting that the statute in issue represents an attempt to give an unfair advantage to those who hold views in opposition to positions which would otherwise be financed by corporations. Ante, at 785-786. It fails even to allude to the fact, however, that Massachusetts' most recent experience with unrestrained corporate expenditures in connection [435 U.S. 765, 811] with ballot questions establishes precisely the contrary. In 1972, a proposed amendment to the Massachusetts Constitution which would have authorized the imposition of a graduated income tax on both individuals and corporations was put to the voters. The Committee for Jobs and Government Economy, an organized political committee, raised and expended approximately $120,000 to oppose the proposed amendment, the bulk of it raised through large corporate contributions. Three of the present appellant corporations each contributed $3,000 to this committee. In contrast, the Coalition for Tax Reform, Inc., the only political committee organized to support the 1972 amendment, was able to raise and expend only approximately $7,000. App. to Jurisdictional Statement 41; App. to Record 48-84. Perhaps these figures reflect the Court's view of the appropriate role which corporations should play in the Massachusetts electoral process, but it nowhere explains why it is entitled to substitute its judgment for that of Massachusetts and other States, 11 as well as the United States, which have acted to correct or prevent similar domination of the electoral process by corporate wealth. <br><br>This Nation has for many years recognized the need for measures designed to prevent corporate domination of the political process. The Corrupt Practices Act, first enacted in 1907, has consistently barred corporate contributions in connection [435 U.S. 765, 812] with federal elections. This Court has repeatedly recognized that one of the principal purposes of this prohibition is "to avoid the deleterious influences on federal elections resulting from the use of money by those who exercise control over large aggregations of capital." United States v. Automobile Workers, 352 U.S. 567, 585 (1957). See Pipefitters v. United States, 407 U.S. 385, 415 -416 (1972); United States v. CIO, 335 U.S., at 113 . Although this Court has never adjudicated the constitutionality of the Act, there is no suggestion in its cases construing it, cited supra, that this purpose is in any sense illegitimate or deserving of other than the utmost respect; indeed, the thrust of its opinions, until today, has been to the contrary. See Automobile Workers, supra, at 585; Pipefitters, supra, at 415-416. <br><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>And Reqhnquist (note FN 1 here) :<br><br><br> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>MR. JUSTICE REHNQUIST, dissenting. <br> <br> <br><br>This Court decided at an early date, with neither argument nor discussion, that a business corporation is a "person" entitled to the protection of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific R. Co., 118 U.S. 394, 396 (1886). Likewise, it soon became accepted that the property of a corporation was protected under the Due Process Clause of that same Amendment. See, e. g., Smyth v. Ames, 169 U.S. 466, 522 (189<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> . Nevertheless, we concluded soon thereafter that the liberty protected by that Amendment "is the liberty of natural, not artificial persons." Northwestern Nat. Life Ins. Co. v. Riggs, 203 U.S. 243, 255 (1906). Before today, our only considered and explicit departures from that holding have been that a corporation engaged in the business of publishing or broadcasting enjoys the same liberty of the press as is enjoyed by natural persons, Grosjean v. American Press Co., 297 U.S. 233, 244 (1936), and that a nonprofit membership corporation organized for the purpose of "achieving . . . equality of treatment by all government, federal, state and local, for the members of the Negro community" enjoys certain liberties of political expression. NAACP v. Button, 371 U.S. 415, 429 (1963). <br><br>The question presented today, whether business corporations have a constitutionally protected liberty to engage in political activities, has never been squarely addressed by any previous decision of this Court. 1 However, the General Court [435 U.S. 765, 823] of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the Congress of the United States, and the legislatures of 30 other States of this Republic have considered the matter, and have concluded that restrictions upon the political activity of business corporations are both politically desirable and constitutionally permissible. The judgment of such a broad consensus of governmental bodies expressed over a period of many decades is entitled to considerable deference from this Court. I think it quite probable that their judgment may properly be reconciled with our controlling precedents, but I am certain that under my views of the limited application of the First Amendment to the States, which I share with the two immediately preceding occupants of my seat on the Court, but not with my present colleagues, the judgment of the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts should be affirmed. <br><br>Early in our history, Mr. Chief Justice Marshall described the status of a corporation in the eyes of federal law: <br><br><br>"A corporation is an artificial being, invisible, intangible, and existing only in contemplation of law. Being the mere creature of law, it possesses only those properties which the charter of creation confers upon it, either expressly, or as incidental to its very existence. These are such as are supposed best calculated to effect the object for which it was created." Dartmouth College v. Woodward, 4 Wheat. 518, 636 (1819). <br><br>The appellants herein either were created by the Commonwealth or were admitted into the Commonwealth only for the limited purposes described in their charters and regulated by [435 U.S. 765, 824] state law. 2 Since it cannot be disputed that the mere creation of a corporation does not invest it with all the liberties enjoyed by natural persons, United States v. White, 322 U.S. 694, 698 -701 (1944) (corporations do not enjoy the privilege against self-incrimination), our inquiry must seek to determine which constitutional protections are "incidental to its very existence." Dartmouth College, supra, at 636. <br>There can be little doubt that when a State creates a corporation with the power to acquire and utilize property, it necessarily and implicitly guarantees that the corporation will not be deprived of that property absent due process of law. Likewise, when a State charters a corporation for the purpose of publishing a newspaper, it necessarily assumes that the corporation is entitled to the liberty of the press essential to the conduct of its business. 3 Grosjean so held, and our subsequent cases have so assumed. E. g., Time, Inc. v. Firestone, 424 U.S. 448 (1976); New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, [435 U.S. 765, 825] 376 U.S. 254 (1964). 4 Until recently, it was not thought that any persons, natural or artificial, had any protected right to engage in commercial speech. See Virginia State Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Citizens Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748, 761 -770 (1976). Although the Court has never explicitly recognized a corporation's right of commercial speech, such a right might be considered necessarily incidental to the business of a commercial corporation. <br><br>It cannot be so readily concluded that the right of political expression is equally necessary to carry out the functions of a corporation organized for commercial purposes. 5 A State grants to a business corporation the blessings of potentially perpetual life and limited liability to enhance its efficiency as [435 U.S. 765, 826] an economic entity. It might reasonably be concluded that those properties, so beneficial in the economic sphere, pose special dangers in the political sphere. Furthermore, it might be argued that liberties of political expression are not at all necessary to effectuate the purposes for which States permit commercial corporations to exist. So long as the Judicial Branches of the State and Federal Governments remain open to protect the corporation's interest in its property, it has no need, though it may have the desire, to petition the political branches for similar protection. Indeed, the States might reasonably fear that the corporation would use its economic power to obtain further benefits beyond those already bestowed. 6 I would think that any particular form of organization [435 U.S. 765, 827] upon which the State confers special privileges or immunities different from those of natural persons would be subject to like regulation, whether the organization is a labor union, a partnership, a trade association, or a corporation. <br><br>One need not adopt such a restrictive view of the political liberties of business corporations to affirm the judgment of the Supreme Judicial Court in this case. That court reasoned that this Court's decisions entitling the property of a corporation to constitutional protection should be construed as recognizing the liberty of a corporation to express itself on political matters concerning that property. Thus, the Court construed the statute in question not to forbid political expression [435 U.S. 765, 828] by a corporation "when a general political issue materially affects a corporation's business, property or assets." 371 Mass. 773, 785, 359 N. E. 2d 1262, 1270 (1977). <br><br>I can see no basis for concluding that the liberty of a corporation to engage in political activity with regard to matters having no material effect on its business is necessarily incidental to the purposes for which the Commonwealth permitted these corporations to be organized or admitted within its boundaries. Nor can I disagree with the Supreme Judicial Court's factual finding that no such effect has been shown by these appellants. Because the statute as construed provides at least as much protection as the Fourteenth Amendment requires, I believe it is constitutionally valid. <br><br>It is true, as the Court points out, ante, at 781-783, that recent decisions of this Court have emphasized the interest of the public in receiving the information offered by the speaker seeking protection. The free flow of information is in no way diminished by the Commonwealth's decision to permit the operation of business corporations with limited rights of political expression. All natural persons, who owe their existence to a higher sovereign than the Commonwealth, remain as free as before to engage in political activity. Cf. Maher v. Roe, 432 U.S. 464, 474 (1977). <br><br>I would affirm the judgment of the Supreme Judicial Court. <br><br><br>[ Footnote 1 ] Our prior cases, mostly of recent vintage, have discussed the boundaries of protected speech without distinguishing between artificial and natural persons. See, e. g., Linmark Associates, Inc. v. Willingboro, [435 U.S. 765, 823] 431 U.S. 85 (1977); Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976). Nevertheless, the Court today affirms that the failure of those cases to draw distinctions between artificial and natural persons does not mean that no such distinctions may be drawn. The Court explicitly states that corporations may not enjoy all the political liberties of natural persons, although it fails to articulate the basis of its suggested distinction. Ante, at 777-778, n. 13. <br><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
NewKid
 
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food for thought

Postby TroubleFunk » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:36 am

This is fascinating reading - I stand corrected, or possibly not. Either way - NewKid, that's a treasure trove of enlightenment for the likes of me - thanks. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: food for thought

Postby AlicetheCurious » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:11 pm

Thanks for the info, NewKid. I've never studied law, but I know enough to be disgusted by Powell's sophistry (my uncouth remarks in italics):<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If the speakers here were not corporations, no one would suggest that the State could silence their proposed speech. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Well, duh! <br><br>Actually, the "speakers" are not corporations. Corporations can't "speak" any more than tables or paper or bullhorns can. It is individuals who speak. Corporations are artificial constructs designed to serve the interests of their owner(s), whose civil rights are already guaranteed by the constitution. <br><br>So giving those owners their own rights and providing such rights as "free speech" to corporations is double-dipping -- it discriminates AGAINST non-corporate-owning individuals, who only have their own rights. It's like giving civil rights to me AND to my bullhorn. My bullhorn has the right to only blare my own opinions, thereby drowing out all others. And, if I buy up all the bullhorns, and the newspapers, and the books, and the movie studios, and the radio stations, what happens to the "free speech" of other citizens (?!)</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>It is the type of speech indispensable to decisionmaking in a democracy, and this is no less true because the speech comes from a corporation rather than an individual. The inherent worth of the speech in terms of its capacity for informing the public does not depend upon the identity of <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>its source</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, whether corporation, association, union, or individual.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The "source" is always individual citizens; again, "corporations" can't think, feel or speak, people can.<br></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br>...<br><br>The question in this case, simply put, is whether the <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>corporate identity of the speaker</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> deprives this proposed speech of what otherwise would be its clear entitlement to protection.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>There he goes again! This is a perfect example of silliness cloaked in pedantry. A corporation has no consciousness and can't have ideas or opinions, neither can it be "the speaker". <br><br>'The fact that the speaker is my bullhorn deprives this proposed speech of what otherwise would be its clear entitlement to protection.' </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>...<br><br>The press cases emphasize the special and constitutionally recognized role of that institution in informing and educating the public, offering criticism, and providing a forum for discussion and debate. But the press does not have a monopoly on either the First Amendment or the ability to enlighten. <br><br>Similarly, the Court's decisions involving corporations in the business of communication or entertainment are based not only on the role of the First Amendment in fostering individual self-expression but also on its role in affording the public access to discussion, debate, and the dissemination of information and ideas. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Apparently, the worm in the apple was introduced by granting First Amendment rights to the press, which must have seemed harmless at the time...<br><br>That stupid decision was probably the thin crack that has been wedged open into a canyon, that now threatens to swallow, not only Americans, but people all over the world.<br></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Even decisions seemingly based exclusively on the individual's right to express himself acknowledge that the expression may contribute to society's edification. <br><br>Nor do our recent commercial speech cases lend support to appellee's business interest theory. They illustrate that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>the First Amendment goes beyond protection of the press and the self-expression of individuals to prohibit government from limiting the stock of information from which members of the public may draw.<br></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Interesting that government is <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>prohibited</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, but media-owning corporations are <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>permitted</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, by using their corporate bucks to buy up all the media, to limit "the stock of information from which members of the public may draw"</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br>...<br><br>Appellee advances a number of arguments in support of his view that these interests are endangered by corporate participation in discussion of a referendum issue. They hinge upon the assumption that such participation would exert an undue influence on the outcome of a referendum vote, and - in the end - destroy the confidence of the people in the democratic process and the integrity of government. According to appellee, corporations are wealthy and powerful and their views may drown out other points of view. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>If appellee's arguments were supported by record or legislative findings that corporate advocacy threatened imminently to undermine democratic processes, thereby denigrating rather than serving First Amendment interests, these arguments would merit our consideration.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br><br>But there has been no showing that the relative voice of corporations has been overwhelming or even significant in influencing referenda in Massachusetts or that there has been any threat to the confidence of the citizenry in government. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>You spoke too soon, Powell my friend. The mountain of evidence, from the illegal invasion of Iraq based on made-up 'intelligence', to the trillions of taxpayer dollars 'misplaced' by the Department of Defence, to the almost total corruption of the legislative and executive branches of government, who represent their corporate daddies rather than the American people, all without a peep from the fifth estate, would make a big, steaming pile of evidence that surely would merit your consideration...</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>...<br><br>To be sure, corporate advertising may influence the outcome of the vote; this would be its purpose. But the fact that advocacy may persuade the electorate is hardly a reason to suppress it: The Constitution "protects expression which is eloquent no less than that which is unconvincing." We noted only recently that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"the concept that government may restrict the speech of some elements of our society in order to enhance the relative voice of others is wholly foreign to the First Amendment . . . ."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Some elements of our society" -- wouldn't that refer to citizens rather than bullhorns?<br></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Moreover, the people in our democracy are entrusted with the responsibility for judging and evaluating the relative merits of conflicting arguments. They may consider, in making their judgment, the source and credibility of the advocate. <br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>It's just revolting that, possibly by hiding this infamous "Memo", this man became a Supreme Court Justice, entrusted with interpreting the US Constitution. Whoever said "the law is an ass" must have been thinking of someone just like him. Notice how he fights for the rights of bull-horns, but leaves regular citizens to fend for themselves.<br><br>What if people read different newspapers to be informed, but all these newspapers, and the tv newscasters as well, are owned and controlled by the same handful of people, with conflicts of interest up the wazoo? What if they are reading what they think are news articles, but are military propaganda pieces made by the military or intelligence agencies and planted to impersonate news reports? So, people are deprived of access to information about "the source and credibility of the advocate". <br><br>Even worse, under the nose of a complicit, corrupted media, what if the real civil rights of real citizens are gradually dismantled, so that the government, controlled and equipped with spying equipment, voting equipment, incarceration equipment, etc. by the mega-corporations, can spy on citizens, arrest and incarcerate them without due process, practice torture or even assassination, without any body, whether government or private or media, being capable of carrying out an investigation and informing people? <br><br>What if those same mega-corporations that control the government, have insinuated themselves, not only into the White House and Capitol Hill, not only into the boardrooms of all the major media, but into the Supreme Court itself? So that human and civil rights can be insidiously corrupted through really stupid and outrageous Supreme Court decisions, like giving civil rights to wholly artificial, even fictional "things" like corporations?<br><br>Scary, eh?<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: food for thought

Postby NewKid » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:29 am

You're not the only one Alice. Like I said, volumes and volumes have been written on the subject. And that wasn't the last word by the SC on it either. <br><br>If you're still interested, check out some of the debate in this case. This time it's Scalia, O'Connor, and Kennedy who lose.<br><br>Make sure and check out Scalia's dissent here for opposing arguments. It starts at:<br><br>"Attention all citizens. To assure the fairness of elections by preventing disproportionate expression of the views of any single powerful group, your Government has decided that the following associations of persons shall be prohibited from speaking or writing in support of any candidate: ___." In permitting Michigan to make private corporations the first object of this Orwellian announcement, the Court today endorses the principle that too much speech is an evil that the democratic majority can proscribe. I dissent because that [494 U.S. 652, 68<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 0] --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> principle is contrary to our case law and incompatible with the absolutely central truth of the First Amendment: that government cannot be trusted to assure, through censorship, the "fairness" of political debate." <br><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=494&invol=652" target="top">caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=494&invol=652</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><br>And if you're really brave, check out this case. This is the case on the so-called McCain Feingold legislation. (Scroll down to the party names and the big roman numeral I; note Scalia's dissenting arguments too about exactly half way through under the rubric "(c) Speech by Corporations Can Be Abridged") <br><br>my favorite line:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But what about the danger to the political system posed by "amassed wealth"? The most direct threat from that source comes in the form of undisclosed favors and payoffs to elected officials--which have already been criminalized, and will be rendered no more discoverable by the legislation at issue here. The use of corporate wealth (like individual wealth) to speak to the electorate is unlikely to "distort" elections--especially if disclosure requirements tell the people where the speech is coming from. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The premise of the First Amendment is that the American people are neither sheep nor fools, and hence fully capable of considering both the substance of the speech presented to them and its proximate and ultimate source. If that premise is wrong, our democracy has a much greater problem to overcome than merely the influence of amassed wealth.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Given the premises of democracy, there is no such thing as too much speech.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>A much greater problem indeed!<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://laws.findlaw.com/us/000/02-1674.html" target="top">laws.findlaw.com/us/000/02-1674.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=newkid@rigorousintuition>NewKid</A> at: 6/16/06 10:58 pm<br></i>
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Re: food for thought

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:03 am

As I said before, I haven't studied law, but it really doesn't take a lawyer to read the opinions of someone like Scalia and realize that he is but one of the legion of termites implanted deep within each pillar of America's former democracy. <br><br>Whether it's the press, the legislature, the White House, the electoral process or in this case, the judiciary, all of these pillars have been hollowed out, retaining only a thin external surface to maintain the illusion that they are still solidly supporting and protecting the people's will. <br><br>It only takes reading what this guy writes, with one's bullshit meter on. Mine went crazy.<br><br>But who has time to read? What with psychic detectives investigating the murder of a Texas teenaged beauty-queen, and Emmanuel Goldstein, oh, sorry, "Abu Musab al Zarqawi" surviving for 52 minutes after two 500-ton bombs were dropped on the building he was in, and the thrilling contest for the world's ugliest dog, Shakira's latest hit "Hips Don't Lie" sweeping the globe, it's no wonder most Americans are either addicted to some chemical or ADD.<br><br>Speaking of reading, have you ever read anything by the brilliant lawyer Vincent Bugliosi? Starting with "Helter Skelter", his books are amazingly entertaining AND informative. That's probably why they've been consistently huge bestsellers...except for his latest, interestingly enough.<br><br>It's called <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The Betrayal of America: How the Supreme Court Undermined the Constitution and Chose Our President</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://archive.salon.com/books/review/2001/07/04/bugliosi/index.html">archive.salon.com/books/r...index.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Describing his book, Bugliosi said: "Within the pages of The Betrayal of America I prove that these justices were absolutely up to no good, and they deliberately set out to hand the election to George Bush."<br><br>Despite his fame, his impressive qualifications and the topical relevance of "Betrayal of America", Bugliosi was actually refused by all three networks, when he offered to appear to discuss this latest book:<br><br>"There are two reasons why the book is not higher than it is. One reason, I think, is because the book had not been available the way it should be, and the second reason is for the first time in my literary career I have not gotten on the main talk shows in the morning, the morning network shows."<br><br>Bugliosi says of Antonin Scalia:<br><br>"Well, Scalia is not a typical conservative or Republican, he's a right-wing ideologue of the Rush Limbaugh school."<br><br>And he has this to say about his country: <br><br>"This is America, not a banana republic."<br><br>With all due respect to Bugliosi, a banana republic is as a banana republic does. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: food for thought

Postby NewKid » Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:49 am

Yeah, Scalia was instrumental in hammering the other justices on getting through Bush v. Gore. That case left such a bad taste in the mouth of lawyers and academics because it was such hackery. But be careful about Bugliosi. The Manson thing was a whole lot different than the story he told. Check out the British version of a book called "The Family" by Ed Sanders if you're interested in that stuff. Maury Terry's "The Ultimate Evil" as well. <p></p><i></i>
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