Alright which one of you wrote Madsen? Locked threads at DU

by **proldic** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:31 pm

Again, is Madsen entirely credible here? "...Bodies are stacked up like cordwood around the Superdome..." "...the carnivorous marine life that now swims through the streets of New Orleans and Southeast Louisiana..." or do you not think it matters? I'm not supporting the bs on DU, just asking. I'd really be interested in knowing. Because if they are not credible -- as other things I have seen he has mixed in with credible stuff -- is that a good messenger? I'm not looking for "perfection", mind you, just wondering. Because wouldn't that make him a straw man to be discredited by those who would tend to do that with someone who mixes fact and exageration? What a good way to bury the truth and discredit future whistleblowers, huh? I still think Madsen is 50% truth. But believe it or not, that's not enough, especially these days. My actual take is to see him as a "conduit" for some intense to-the-edge limited-hangout, but also a diseminator of some powerful red herrings, as well. And that's why I question him. If all we can do right now is the Ray McGoverns and Wayne Madsen's, then I say we ought to stop pining away for white-knight whistleblowers, and look within. Despite the seductive allure and almost psychological compulsion we will have towards believing them. Here's a fact: the number one attorney defending CIA whistleblowers, whose office is in "CIA Village" in Falls Church, has intimate relations and a high sec clearance from the CIA, and frequently strolls right in to Langley, with depositional access to some of the most secret places, but we never hear about it. Nope, don't trust 'em. Give me a Phillip Agee or Stockwell, now those were the genuine guys. But that was a long time ago. Since then the agency has wised up, but good. Don't believe for a second that Madsen is for real. He would have never been able to develop to the level of prominence he has, in the circles he is in, unless he was sanctioned by the ptb. Think about it, it's the ultimate psychological pragmatism on their part, more you think about it, the more you can see they'd have to do it -- and it'd have to be somebody very very credible to convince people like us. You weren't expecting some obvious dime-store carny type of false front whistleblower, were y'all? Who else would it be, besides someone who is very "self-credibilizing" and nearly impossible to disbelieve?

by **dbeach** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:37 pm

madsen is a VN ERA Veteran which means he did not serve in VN..he is former Militray Intelligence and has according to him many sources there..I would tend to agree with that. Vets love their stories and may exaggerate and embellish to get their pt accross..

by **DrDebugDU** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:44 pm

prodlic: He is mixed. So some parts are over the top and somethings aren't true, but for example in Coingate he discovered many things which nobody else discovered. So I did gave a wrong impression (i'll edit it on second thought). You do need to verify his data. Then again all the stuff about Katrina is 100% unverified right now, so you have to do verification on a lot things.

by **BlueCherub** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:47 pm

I've also had my share of issues and problems with the Magistrate, Will Pitt, the Crazy Clarkies and others. DU can be very aggravating at times! aarrrgggghhhhh! I've also noticed that freepers with 1000 posts can pretty much say whatever snarky right wing talking point they want to and not get banned. Meanwhile legit members with 1000 posts are at risk of being banned and often are if they post anything that smells of CT. What annoys me the most is that the powers that be seem completely uninterested in getting to the truth but instead focused on "what other people think". Who cares?! Lastly, you would think that by "donating" to the site, one would have the freedom to discuss relevant issues; of which most CT topics are! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/mad.gif ALT=">:">

by **seemslikeadream** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:17 pm

Tinoire (1000+ posts) Sun Sep-04-05 07:18 PM Response to Original message 48. I'm sorry Earl. I find it extremely ironic that people purporting to effect democratic change are censoring discussion of ANY topics and when I say people, I am not pointing fingers at the DU Admin, but at a certain element that started, right around Primaries time, changing the direction of this site to make it more palatable to the mainstream. The mainstream, the close-minded people who never bother asking 'why' and 'how' have NEVER, not ONCE in history ever effected change. What do we want? Status quo? Who cares what the mother-of-all-WMDs-in-Iraq lie pushers like the New York Times think? Or what the gullible idiots who believe their lies think? We are fighting the corporate media and their lies- what kind of a fight is it when we defer to *their* mindset and try to impress them with oh how so reasonable we are. The NYT can kiss my a** and they can kiss it twice, as can all the people who think it's not news until they've either read it in the papers or heard it on CNN. We have thought control in this country. We have a media that outdoes any media in the worst dictatorships. The Soviets were in AWE of our media and how it kept the people in line. Scientists have been talking about Operation Popeye, the weather control ops that flooded the Vietnamese Rice Fields, ever since Jack Anderson exposed it, but DU isn't ready to talk about it? That is indeed alarming. What do you want DU to be? A gathering of status quo supporting Bush-hating Dems or a gathering of thoughtful people discussing important issues and trying to effect meaningful change? What was your vision 4 years ago? Whatever your vision, I hope you realize that the status-quo crowd is not going to effect any change for you. That status quo crowd was brilliantly summarized by Sparkly earlier: "Don't point fingers. Don't play the blamegame. Don't politicize this." "Don't criticize Chimpy BEFORE he screws up -- pushing massive tax cuts, ignoring counterterrorism warnings, banging war drums, vacationing during a storm -- because maybe it'll all work out fine, give it a chance, you don't have a crystal ball!" "Don't criticize Chimpy DURING his screw ups, because now is not the time when we're in the middle of a crisis -- it doesn't help the people who are struggling, it undermines morale, it's divisive when we should all be pulling together!" "Don't criticize Chimpy AFTER his screw ups, because we need to move on and get over it -- besides, it wasn't his fault, he didn't know, Democrats are just trying to politice this, and we have other things to deal with right now." And we've got that very crowd, full of trolls, moles and operatives, here, slowly suffocating this site, like a bunch of weeds overtaking ones front lawn. Neither the NYT nor the Democratic Party are ever going to respect this site. You know why? Because they don't respect the PEOPLE; they are AFRAID what the people will think when armed with information. They do not respect us now and they will never respect us. Why aggravate posters over that? Elad programmed an ignore poster function and a hide thread function. Is that not enough? We need to shut people up also and just zap threads, posts into oblivion? And one more thing since I'm on a roll. We seriously, very seriously need a term limit on mods. Thank you for taking the time to painstakingly recreate Eloriel's links. I appreciate the difficult task of running this board but seriously, it's time to decide in what direction this board is headed. Neither this board nor the Democratic Party can pretend to represent the people they censor views and voices you don't like. And in three years it will be too late to play nice and ask for a solidarnosc' of a voting bloc. The pain of these last few years has to deeply seared the soul for that. Your vision EarlG. What was your vision? What was your vision when you, Skinner and Elad stood shivering at that inauguration with your little sign asking people to band together here and get that bastard out? Please remember that time and ask yourself who's going to help you get there. Not the timid, quivering ones... And certainly not the under-the-rader trolls and moles. It's the brave people like Eloriel who know a conspiracy theory when they see one and aren't afraid to talk about it. Thank you for reading my rant. <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4630068&mesg_id=4634359">www.democraticunderground...id=4634359</a>

by **dbeach** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:52 pm

l 'd point fingers at anyone who knowingly and with malfeasance is working with the fascist non-eleted illegal administration of george .w. bush.. anybody that calls bush the president is contributing to the crimes..HE IS NOT THE PRESIDENT and we have not had an honest election since 1980 when carter was defeated after the original OCT surprise. When I die I am going to HEAVEN..I spent my time in HELL .VN 1969 . and the USA from11/00 to current date!

by **nashvillebrook** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:51 am

it's so wonderful -- DU isn't "the press." it's not a news product. no one has the right to trim it's branches like this. we are the people. we are the audience and the people having the discussion. they are basically pointing around and saying, "you, out of the pool" based on nothing more than they don't like the way the person appears in print to the outside world. reminds me of a camp casey thread where someone *implored* people not to wear tie-dyes to crawford b/c they might be seen on camera. gee, and i guess you wouldn't want anyone seen in the background who is fat, either. or with grown-out hair color. no freaks. no poor. no problem.

by **Watchful Citizen** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:24 am

So the DU admin and mods were deleting any New Orleans references to weather control by the government as 'over the top' and a threat to DU's credibility because of the NYT and Fox scorning of DU after the tsunami. I knew it.. Shows how uninformed they are about the Pentagon. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison introduced a bill to to determine oversight and funding of US government weather modification programs THIS YEAR. <a href="http://www.theorator.com/bills109/s517.html">www.theorator.com/bills109/s517.html</a> Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2005 109th CONGRESS 1st Session S. 517 To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes. IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES March 3, 2005 Mrs. HUTCHISON introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation A BILL To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2005'. SEC. 2. PURPOSE. It is the purpose of this Act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather modification research and development. SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS. In this Act: (1) BOARD- The term `Board' means the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board. (2) EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR- The term `Executive Director' means the Executive Director of the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board. (3) RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- The term `research and development' means theoretical analysis, exploration, experimentation, and the extension of investigative findings and theories of scientific or technical nature into practical application for experimental and demonstration purposes, including the experimental production and testing of models, devices, equipment, materials, and processes. (4) WEATHER MODIFICATION- The term `weather modification' means changing or controlling, or attempting to change or control, by artificial methods the natural development of atmospheric cloud forms or precipitation forms which occur in the troposphere. SEC. 4. WEATHER MODIFICATION ADVISORY AND RESEARCH BOARD ESTABLISHED. (a) IN GENERAL- There is established in the Department of Commerce the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board. (b) MEMBERSHIP- (1) IN GENERAL- The Board shall consist of 11 members appointed by the Secretary of Commerce, of whom-- (A) at least 1 shall be a representative of the American Meteorological Society; (B) at least 1 shall be a representative of the American Society of Civil Engineers; (C) at least 1 shall be a representative of the National Academy of Sciences; (D) at least 1 shall be a representative of the National Center for Atmospheric Research of the National Science Foundation; (E) at least 2 shall be representatives of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration of the Department of Commerce; (F) at least 1 shall be a representative of institutions of higher education or research institutes; and (G) at least 1 shall be a representative of a State that is currently supporting operational weather modification projects. (2) TENURE- A member of the Board serves at the pleasure of the Secretary of Commerce. (3) VACANCIES- Any vacancy on the Board shall be filled in the same manner as the original appointment. (b) ADVISORY COMMITTEES- The Board may establish advisory committees to advise the Board and to make recommendations to the Board concerning legislation, policies, administration, research, and other matters. (c) INITIAL MEETING- Not later than 30 days after the date on which all members of the Board have been appointed, the Board shall hold its first meeting. (d) MEETINGS- The Board shall meet at the call of the Chair. (e) QUORUM- A majority of the members of the Board shall constitute a quorum, but a lesser number of members may hold hearings. (f) CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR- The Board shall select a Chair and Vice Chair from among its members. SEC. 5. DUTIES OF THE BOARD. (a) PROMOTION OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- In order to assist in expanding the theoretical and practical knowledge of weather modification, the Board shall promote and fund research and development, studies, and investigations with respect to-- (1) improved forecast and decision-making technologies for weather modification operations, including tailored computer workstations and software and new observation systems with remote sensors; and (2) assessments and evaluations of the efficacy of weather modification, both purposeful (including cloud-seeding operations) and inadvertent (including downwind effects and anthropogenic effects). (b) FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE- Unless the use of the money is restricted or subject to any limitations provided by law, the Board shall use amounts in the Weather Modification Research and Development Fund-- (1) to pay its expenses in the administration of this Act, and (2) to provide for research and development with respect to weather modifications by grants to, or contracts or cooperative arrangements, with public or private agencies. (c) REPORT- The Board shall submit to the Secretary biennially a report on its findings and research results. SEC. 6. POWERS OF THE BOARD. (a) STUDIES, INVESTIGATIONS, AND HEARINGS- The Board may make any studies or investigations, obtain any information, and hold any hearings necessary or proper to administer or enforce this Act or any rules or orders issued under this Act. (b) PERSONNEL- The Board may employ, as provided for in appropriations Acts, an Executive Director and other support staff necessary to perform duties and functions under this Act. (c) COOPERATION WITH OTHER AGENCIES- The Board may cooperate with public or private agencies to promote the purposes of this Act. (d) COOPERATIVE AGREEMENTS- The Board may enter into cooperative agreements with the head of any department or agency of the United States, an appropriate official of any State or political subdivision of a State, or an appropriate official of any private or public agency or organization for conducting weather modification activities or cloud-seeding operations. (e) CONDUCT AND CONTRACTS FOR RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- The Executive Director, with the approval of the Board, may conduct and may contract for research and development activities relating to the purposes of this section. SEC. 7. COOPERATION WITH THE WEATHER MODIFICATION OPERATIONS AND RESEARCH BOARD. The heads of the departments and agencies of the United States and the heads of any other public or private agencies and institutions that receive research funds from the United States shall, to the extent possible, give full support and cooperation to the Board and to initiate independent research and development programs that address weather modifications. SEC. 8. FUNDING. (a) IN GENERAL- There is established within the Treasury of the United States the Weather Modification Research and Development Fund, which shall consist of amounts appropriated pursuant to subsection (b) or received by the Board under subsection (c). (b) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There is authorized to be appropriated to the Board for the purposes of carrying out the provisions of this Act $10,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2005 through 2014. Any sums appropriated under this subsection shall remain available, without fiscal year limitation, until expended. (c) GIFTS- The Board may accept, use, and dispose of gifts or donations of services or property. SEC. 9. EFFECTIVE DATE. This Act shall take effect on October 1, 2005. END

by **LibertyorDeath** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:54 am

That explains why I can't find them either. I've been alerting on every troll mole freep there endleesly it has no effect. They ban TIA but Will Pitt gets a pass it's complete horse shit. and that magistrate fucker has gotta go.

by **dbeach** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:26 am

will pitt eats .loosh his mag is a perfect example of alternate media govt controlled as is DU and skinner and the rest of em..begging to not have posts moved to 9/11 forum or blocked or whatever..groveling at the feet of the moderators.. kissing the boots of the boots that kick me in the teeth.. I go there ONLY to wake up sheeple..I try to not get banned..BUT I know its eneemy territority as are just about everywhere else..Bush declared war on the US middle class on 11/00 and on all Freedom loving people.. NO COMPROMISE with the elites and it sure seems to me that DU is part of the problem 202 registered members here ."".as for me give me liberty or give me death."

by **rosesaylavee** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:21 pm

I posted that earlier this weekend. I thought when it was locked that it was because I didn't establish a link between KBR and what was happening in NO. (There is a lot of info I have since discovered on the DU demopedia site on Halliburton and its alleged drug connections. So it wasn't that there is much question there that Halliburton is suspect in general.)There was one poster that insisted that discussing it as a conspiracy was too much of a side track from * admin incompetency. Perhaps I am naive but I am willing to give them a break as the traffic has been heavy. Not having 'lock fatique' yet but I am new to this! I posted the same info on this site later that day under 'Question from a Newbie' under the General Discussion thread here. I do like this site as I was able to get some source links to explore this topic and know that I can come back and discuss.

by **DavidFL** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:52 pm

And anyone who has studied the DLC can see it's a neocon front as its goals and underlying philosophies are essentially the same, with process critique built in to give the appearance of an opposition party. I think that's why you see DLC apologists there minimizing the influence the DLC has on the Democratic Party because that's essentially what the neocons do whenever the PNAC is mentioned; they all operate the same way because they are likeminded individuals. Madsen was correct in labelling DU as squishy Democrats with their own agenda, because that's what the DLC is. I mean, that thread shreiking how David Brooks has turned against the cabal? Come on now, get real. As for "The Magistrate" and other posters who seem to be able to break the rules without consequence, I think they are probably aliases of the admins, or people known to the admins. I think the key to understanding the dynamics of DU is not to take most of the posters there at face value. Sure, there are many who sincerely are party die hards and who truly -- and mistakenly, in my opinion -- believe the Democratic Party is still a vehicle for political change. But there are way too many posters there with an agenda. I mean, I listen to what hate radio, aka Clear Channel, is squaking about and more than once I have seen the same talking points repeated at DU, sometimes the same day, by posters I have never seen before (If you listen to CC hate radio long enough, you'll notice it pushes the neocon agenda.) Further, the fact that certain topics -- which happen to be central to understanding who the neocons are, where they come from, what their goals and philosophies are, etc. -- are verboten at DU is proof in itself who the site is fronting for. And I'm talking topics beyond the discussion of "conspiracy theories." Also, I noticed some posters are quite handy with legal terminology. Lobbyists are lawyers themselves, and most of the lobbies aligned with the DLC have quite a presence at DU through certain posters. Just note who participates on the threads re: big pharma and alternative medicine sometime. Some on this thread mentioned the Clarkies. Obviously, Clark went into the primaries with an agenda. He was the Clintons' stalking horse whose purpose was to sap support from Dean after he became too populist, and too popular, for the DLC's comfort. And despite talking a good game, I don't buy Clark's act for a second either. Something else others here may have noticed: when mainstream media outlets were overhyping stories of looting, murder and rape in New Orleans -- none of which could possibly be verified or corroborated -- a bunch of posters, whose names I've never seen before, showed up to hype these stories and tried to give them some credence and then disappeared. The "civil unrest" angle was also a hate radio talking point. Digressing a bit here, I think the purpose of these stories was a critical part of the administration's broader plan to use New Orleans as a precedent for applying martial law to other situations. For without the civil unrest stories, the New Orleans precedent could have never been applied to other cases of civil unrest, as it occured in the context of a natural disaster. Anyway, I'm pretty certain "Geek Tragedy" is an alias of "Skinner." Notice how Geek's posts have stopped since "Skinner" has been away? I had my posting "privleges" revoked after alerting on Geek for making libellous and outrageous claims, like Kurt Nimmo was essentially a "Holocaust denier." And I would suggest others here alert people when the usual suspects at DU make slanderous and libellous smears against them. I'm sure a few libel suits would set the admins of DU straight. I've compiled my own list of posters at DU who I think have an agenda, and the posters on this thread who have mentioned certain DU posters by name are on the right track.

by **starroute** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:41 pm

Since that assertion seems to be coming up as an example ofr Madsen being out of line, here are a couple of links courtesy of <a href="http://www.dailygrail.com/">www.dailygrail.com/</a> (A first rate site, by the way, that would be of interest to many here.) The verdict seems to be alligators, definitely, but sharks perhaps a little exaggerated. <a href="http://www.texarkanagazette.com/articles/2005/09/03/local_news/news/news07.txt">www.texarkanagazette.com/...news07.txt</a> Don Ruggles may forever have a vision of an alligator trying to get into the attic of a flooded New Orleans home. It was recorded on videotape while Ruggles was piloting one of his helicopters in the rescue efforts of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. <snip> "It's a horrible situation. We saw several alligators in the neighborhoods and one was swimming into the top of the home where likely people could be there trying to save themselves," Ruggles said. "There are rats, bats, snakes, large fish, and of course the alligators swimming around in the top of the homes and attics." <a href="http://www.palmbeachpost.com/storm/content/news/feeds/0830flooding.html">www.palmbeachpost.com/sto...oding.html</a> With snakes, ants, alligators, nutria and rats already a problem in such high water - as well as the potential for disease from the polluted, dirty water - Jefferson Parish Mayor Aaron Broussard told residents Tuesday that at least one 3-foot shark had been spotted.

by **rain** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:15 am

... cute little pets. ok, I wasn't going to say it, being well aware of the heart attachments that some of the great people here have to it, and the difficulties of working with what you've got. also seems like a school-yard bully shove. 'am democratic'. 'are not' 'are so' 'are not' ... (gosh, I'm thinking about that childhood story about being used as another kids 'slave') well we've had the "Battle of New Orleans" as a history lesson, so how about - <a href="http://www.poppyfields.net/filks/00075.html">www.poppyfields.net/filks/00075.html</a>

by **Watchful Citizen** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:08 am

DU is worth supporting but one must curfuffle with fascism's shills and not let them bully real progressives out of there. <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4630068&mesg_id=4648006">www.democraticunderground...id=4648006</a> All 'FrenchieCat' does at DU is watchdog for the General. I'm sure the General Clark phenomenon online is DARPA, DLC, or both. He personally lobbied IranContra felon Admiral Poindexter for data-mining firm Acxiom (part of Stephens Group) to supply info on Americans for the Total Information Awarness project, a real progressive...fascist. Clark co-chaired the CIA front known as the National Endowment for Democracy with...(drum roll, please)..Frank Carlucci of the Carlyle Group! I've got tons more, folks, try the roast beef...

Alright which one of you wrote Madsen? Locked threads at DU

Again

Re: It's even worse. A number of threads have been deleted

Re: Again

Re: DU

Re:Read Tinoire's post at DU about Eloriel *** IT IS GREAT

Re: Re:Read Tinoire's post at DU about Eloriel *** IT IS GRE

Tinoire's post:

Notice that Earl admits the tsunami attention spooked them.

Re: DU won't let me acess my posts

Re: DU won't let me acess my posts

Re: More DUers will be coming to this site with 'lock fatigu

Personally, I think DU is a DLC front.

As far as carnivorous marine life goes . . .

re:Personally, I think DU is...

Yup. There's 'FrenchieCat' the worst Clarkie ripping Madsen.

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