Trailer for "The Fountain"

by **Moddey Screbbagh** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:10 pm

just my two cents, as a usually passive but nonetheless interested observer of some of these debates with HMV: to me, the obvious deterioration in quality of most movies being made now is in inverse proportion to the efforts to market them, with the result being self-parody, or worse, of the whole movie-making enterprise. even a limited television-watcher or newspaper reader like myself is quite literally bombarded with advertising (hidden or transparent) for a given film which is touted in hyperbolic language, only to disappear from the same media often only weeks later. hollywood of course is fully aware of this phenomenon, thus the tremendous push for a good opening weekend: everyone knows it is the rare film these days that will stay in cinemas very long. this emphasis on marketing/advertising (rather than making a quality product) necessarily carries the baggage of suspect motivations we are all familiar with: we are basically listening to snake-oil salesmen, and we are largely a captive audience. that some of what goes on is designed to cater to the worst in us (prejudices, racist and sexist tendencies, etc.), or desensitize us to violence, or simply that much of it all is an enormous distraction from the very serious events of the day should be obvious to pretty much all RI readers here and I am surprised that so many give HMV such a hard time. The taunt from (apparently) above 'can't you just watch a movie and enjoy it...' or whatever the phrase was is rather naive and arrogant. HMV is that much smarter and better than the rest of us for not going to movies, and I respect that tremendously. I use netflix a lot, and have now gravitated to older movies, and am almost always impressed at how much better they are. As an example, inspired by a recent RI post, I watched Charles Laughton's The Night of the Hunter recently, which is a truly amazing movie. I read an interview somewhere recently with the director peter greenaway who (echoing goddard of many years ago) claimed that cinema is now dead as an art form. It is probably soon dead as a commodity/money making business as well, but, for now, it certainly is a good agent of mass distraction. for what it's worth, I saw pirates 2 the other day and did enjoy it as rather silly "entertainment." but then i got home and read about israel's invasion of lebanon and realized seeing that movie was a complete waste of my time.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:04 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>HMV is that much smarter and better than the rest of us for not going to movies, and I respect that tremendously. <hr></blockquote> Thanks for the respect but let me beat others to disagreeing with the "better" part. Yes, I do know some things others don't yet remain open and grateful for both other perspectives and even some resistance to urge me to better explain myself. (Maybe Prof Pan is really me generating more interest. lol.) Back to Prof Pan quoting Emma Goldman- <blockquote>Quote:<hr>"If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution."<hr></blockquote> Again, I don't discourage people from affirming joy, humor, creativeness, etc. but there's no excuse for not knowing lots and doing more in the face of the ongoing Nazi occupation of our country. So much info is available at the push of a button from the comfort of home. No excuse. Well, there is, actually. American public schools really were designed to traumatize children into obedient worker drones and cannon fodder. And three generations of state media control to carry out rule-by-tension fascist policies and infantalize us has harmed the mental health of our nation. And that's after eons of male-dominated violence, terror, slavery, war, etc. Quite a heritage to for We to Overcome. I've worked in the arts and entertainment field for longer than some RI readers have been alive. And I've also seen how little of it is truly edifying or inspirational. Lots of totems and celebrity-worship in the biz eating up dollars and providing palliatives. But people do need a sense that we are ok as a species, not the monsters the police-state wants us to believe need them to protect us from ourselves. Balance and priorities are what I'm pointing at when I use the 'house on fire' analogy. Some of us just can't watch it burn while we go to the movies which are also full of mind viruses. In fact, it was NOT going to the movies that sensitized me to the linguistic tricks in the TITLES which many more people see rather than actually sitting through the full treatment. Ironic, ay? Learning to judge a book by its cover just to see how it deceives us....

by **Iroquois** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:42 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins said: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> (Maybe Prof Pan is really me generating more interest. lol.) <hr></blockquote> Actually, I do appreciate the debate that Professor Pan and others encourage with you, Hugh Manatee Wins, when they disagree with your assertions. Without the added defense of your positions in your responses, I don't believe I would have really come to agree with you nearly as much as I have and certainly would not have learned as much. One question I have for you though, and feel free to just point me in the right direction rather than answer me outright. What philosophy/meme/technique/etc. do you believe is most effective in countering this tendency toward what I'll call a "cultural conditioning for the acceptance of autocracy" for lack of a better term? I apologize if you have answered this question already. I don't have nearly enough time to spend reading RI and similar sources of information on current events as I would like, and may not spend the time that I do have as efficiently as I should.

by **orz** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:42 pm

HMW, i really do actually agree with the basis of a lot of what you're saying, but find the specifics just ludicrous. Also i think you're throwing out a million babies with an ocean of bathwater... so many filmmakers, even in the 'mainstream' world are creating great art with positive effects and valuable ideas... many of them would even agree with the substance of what you've said, if not the way you say it. Basically the bottom line is: I appreciate and agree with many of your concerns about the controlling effect of the mass media, but please forgive me if I prefer analysis of this to be in some way distinguishable from acute paraniod schizophrenia. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/indifferent.gif ALT=":|">

by **starroute** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:58 pm

I'm in pretty fundamental disagreement with Hugh here. I've got a fairly broad, though spotty, knowledge of the last 80 years or so of pop culture, and I have a great respect for the subversive power of pop trash. Looking at the early 30's, for example -- the most desperate years of the Great Depression -- I'd say that horror films like Frankenstein and Dracula, gangster movies like The Public Enemy, and comic films and cartoons like the Marx Brothers and Betty Boop did far more to undermine the dominant order than serious political movies like I Was a Fugitive From a Chain Gang or others even more thoroughly forgotten. Not surprisingly, the horror and gangster movies got suppressed after 1933 (only to come back a few years later in much tamer form), while the Marx Brothers and Betty Boop got cleaned up and made respectable. Even pop trash doesn't necessarily get to realize its full anarchic potential for very long before somebody notices and turns off the flow. Being lowdown, dirty, and obscene is one way to fly under the radar. But paradoxically, being wildly popular is another, because -- especially when the cultural winds are changing -- the greedmeisters will gladly sell whatever those crazy kids are willing to buy, even when they don't understand it themselves. That's why I see Pirates of the Caribbean as a set of films with significance -- not just silly entertainment, but a message for the current moment, where pirates are the heroes and the ultimate villain is a soulless corporation bent on global domination. (And not just a random soulless corporation but the ur-corporation, the model for all of those that have come after it, the British East India Company -- though for purposes of the film shorn of the "British" part in order to identify it more closely with the anonymous trans-national corporations of our own era.) Even beyond that, I see Pirates as being about the difference between those on one hand, who have souls and hearts whose urgings they follow, and those on the other who've sold their souls and buried their hearts so deep that they can no longer hear them. I've been very aware that the movie and tv heroes of my childhood were a fairly anarchic bunch -- private eyes and lone gunslingers, mostly -- contending with official representatives of authority who ranged from just plain dumb to outright corrupt. In contrast, the heroes since the 1980's have tended to be authority figures themselves -- cops and and prosecutors and soldiers and special ops types. I'm more than ready to see a little anarchy back in the system. Finally, though, my real beef with consciously political art is simply that it is *conscious* and therefore doomed to be mechanical, over-rational, and two-steps behind. In my book, myth -- even trashy myth, even myth that comes filtered through the commercial culture -- that taps into the unconscious is worth three of anything that's written to prescription. Of course, having real, unmediated myth would be even better.

by **LilyPatToo** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:26 pm

starroute and orz already said most of what I was thinking as I read this thread. I'm aware of the ways that the film industry reflects memes and perpetuates stereotypes, but I still love movies. My Dad was a movie projectionist and I grew up watching movies from the projectionist's booth and really, really loving them. They became my escape from my constant depression and all the missing time and my mean mother and *boring* school days. Being highly dissociative, I can suspend disbelief with the best of them and it's saved my sanity more times than I can count. That said, I too wish that there was some way of making the movie-going public more savvy about the ways that images in films shape opinion in all sorts of ways, obvious and subtle. So I work for social justice, post on boards about things that I perceive as being ignored and sign half a dozen e-petitions a day. I spend my money according to how much I like or dislike a company's policies. And I support political candidates based upon how progressive and perceptive they strike me as being--even some that are running in races in other states or districts. But I refuse to give up my love of sitting in a darkened theater and letting go of my life and all its responsibilities for an hour or two, afterwards. When my social conscience threatens to spoil that escape for me, I plan to find a box with a tight-fitting lid to put it into for those hours. Afterward, I'll take it out, dust it off and go back to fighting the Good Fight, but my movie time is sacrosanct. Period. LilyPat

by **starroute** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:28 pm

I apologize if I'm threadjacking at this point -- but the more I think about Pirates II (which I just saw yesterday and am still processing), the more I'm hit by just how overloaded the film is with religious, initiatory, and possibly gnostic references. - It starts with Jack Sparrow raiding a prison -- from which he escapes by hiding in a coffin along with a dead man -- in order to obtain the image of a key, which is somehow even more important than a real key. - In the next episode, a savage tribe has adopted him as a god incarnate, and is proposing to sacrifice him in order to liberate his divine essense from the prison of his body. - A significant figure throughout the picture, who serves as a sort of Greek chorus, is a former ghost pirate from the first film, who having become mortal again, is extremely concerned with the state of his soul and spends considerable time studying his Bible, even though he doesn't know how to read. He also makes some of the wisest remarks in the movie. I'm not going to take this any further -- both for fear of boring anyone who has no interest in the matter and in order to avoid spoilers -- but if anyone is interested, let me know and we can take it up in a separate thread.

by **professorpan** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:44 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>But I refuse to give up my love of sitting in a darkened theater and letting go of my life and all its responsibilities for an hour or two, afterwards. When my social conscience threatens to spoil that escape for me, I plan to find a box with a tight-fitting lid to put it into for those hours. Afterward, I'll take it out, dust it off and go back to fighting the Good Fight, but my movie time is sacrosanct. Period.<hr></blockquote> Word, sister! As a creative artist, I get really weary of those who insist fiction should be a vehicle for ideology -- whatever the ideology. Societies that shackle are to ideology are always the most repressive.

by **Moddey Screbbagh** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:20 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>As a creative artist, I get really weary of those who insist fiction should be a vehicle for ideology -- whatever the ideology. <hr></blockquote> this kind of utterance reminds me of resistance some feel when various methods of literary criticism are used to interpret certain texts. "why can't we just enjoy the book for what it is..." another hackneyed commonplace is often used as a response to this naive position, that having "no politics" is itself a political position. you're the first "creative artist," professor pan, i've heard take this position. most i know or know of i believe would be if anything hyperaware that fiction is necessarily a vehicle for ideology, you can't have it any other way. once you realize this, you can certainly have fun with it, as many artists do. i do not mean to speak for HMV here (i'm sure he will chime in soon enough), but nobody here is advocating political speech (as a choice, or an alternative for another type of speech), or that "fiction should be a vehicle for ideology..." you can't have it any other way. it is.

by **bvonahsen** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:55 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>That's why I see Pirates of the Caribbean as a set of films with significance -- not just silly entertainment, but a message for the current moment, where pirates are the heroes and the ultimate villain is a soulless corporation bent on global domination.<hr></blockquote> But at the same time we know that there are no more pirates, they lost the battle. And isn't it odd that one of the biggest bitorrent trackers goes by the name of <a href="http://thepiratebay.org/">Pirate Bay</a>? They were, in fact, closed down by the MPIAA just this month for a while but are now back up. So perhaps the "Pirates" movies are a message: "You will ultimately lose your battle with us." Software hackers and crackers refer to themselves as "pirates" all the time. -- On the larger question, I think Hugh is partly right but at times he comes off as projecting his own mindset into media and goes too far. Hugh tends to beg the question too much.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:04 am

I agree with MS, Prof Pan. Art, even popular corporate 'art,' is inescapably about human values, attitudes, themes, and aesthetics which used to reflect an individual but now is an institutional construct with a hierarchy determining result. That's not my dogma or a conspiracy theory. That's simply what popular 'art' is. A better word is entertainment, not really art. Noting that the first track of the CD of Bruce Springsteen's 'The Pete Seeger Project' was a tune called Old Dan Tucker, I checked the blurb on the new movie 'Dan Tucker Must Die.' (Think there's any relationship? Some have wanted revenge on Old Pete since the days of the House Un-American Activities Committee. Some prefer not to be Overcame.) The movie with Dan Tucker in the title is another gender agit prop movie about young women getting revenge on an old boyfriend. (After all, the Devil Wears Prada.) But Bruce and Pete have been raising awareness in support of the southerners, many of them African-Americans, devastated by storm Katrina so maybe there's another theme in there. The origin of the Dan Tucker song- <a href="http://www.ciscohouston.com/lyrics/old_dan_tucker.shtml">www.ciscohouston.com/lyri...cker.shtml</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>This is one of the most famous of the "walk-around" tunes connected with the 19th century minstrel shows, which featured white males performing in black-face makeup songs supposedly representing the slave culture of the pre-civil war South. The "walk-around" was generally sung at the end of the show by a soloist who gave out verses, and a small chorus who joined in with phrases such as "Git Out of the Way" or "Look Away, Look Away." This was in imitation of the "call and response" pattern of many Negro songs. Dan Emmett, who was a member of the Virginia Minstrels, the first four-man minstrel team to strut before the footlights, claimed he wrote the tune of "Old Dan Tucker" in 1830 or 1831, when he was 15 or 16 years old. However, this is a claim that he made in old age, and it doubtful that he composed it. The song first appeared in print in a copyrighted edition that described it as "An Original Negro Melody by Dan Tucker, Jr." The year of publication was 1843. That was the same year that the Virginia Minstrels made their debut. Mr. Emmett, however, remains famous as the composer of an even better-known "walk-around" titled "Dixie." To his chagrin, because he was actually an abolitionist, the song "Dixie" was claimed by the Confederacy during the war.<hr></blockquote> With that background, it seems like a movie title calling for the death of "Dan Tucker," a famous black name in American folk lore, is more than a high-school dating revenge fantasy. There just might be a little race-baiting implied. Like Lynyrd Skynyrd's perpetual tribute to Governor George 'Segregation Now and Forever' Wallace in the tune called Sweet Home Alabama from 1974 and still going. US military recruiting draws heavily from the south and Confederate vs Yankee agit prop like 'The Dukes of Hazard' is still used to recruit men who want to kick someone's butt for revenge. This IMDB website is quite a movie search database. I put in the topic of 'revenge' and got 2537 movies. Popular topic, hunh? <a href="http://www.imdb.com/keyword/revenge/">www.imdb.com/keyword/revenge/</a> And here's the database's sidebar of related keywords with the number of films in which they are found. This word list reads like a linguistic pointillist painting of post-MK-ULTRA America. Bring the kids!: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Abuse (26) Accident (32) Adoption (24) Adultery (77) Affair (34) African American (35) Airplane (24) Alcohol (30) Ambush (30) Anger (35) Anthology (23) Anti Hero (41) Arson (32) Assassin (30) Assassination (42) Assault (23) Attempted Murder (27) Automobile (40) Axe (29) B Movie (29) Back From The Dead (30) Bank Robbery (40) Bar (58) Based On Book (34) Based On Comic (39) Based On Novel (364) Based On Play (96) Based On True Story (36) Bathtub Scene (29) Battle (26) Beach (37) Beating (29) Betrayal (150) Biker (24) Black Comedy (72) Blackmail (81) Blindness (22) Blockbuster (68) Blood (215) Blood Splatter (72) Boat (37) Bomb (32) Bondage (75) Boy (30) Breasts (58) Brothel (23) Brother (71) Brother Brother Relationship (46) Brother Sister Relationship (57) Brutality (41) Bully (43) California (27) Car Accident (74) Car Chase (40) Casino (24) Castle (26) Cat (31) Cellular Phone (26) Cemetery (61) Character Name In Title (188) Chase (103) Child (40) Child Abuse (26) Child Murder (62) Children (25) Christmas (26) Church (37) Cigarette Smoking (23) City (31) Cocaine (30) Conspiracy (33) Controversial (27) Convertible (23) Cop (24) Corpse (43) Corrupt Cop (22) Corruption (71) Courtroom (42) Crime (57) Crime Boss (22) Criminal (39) Crossbow (22) Cruelty (41) Cult Favorite (124) Curse (31) Dance (24) Dancing (40) Dark Hero (31) Daughter (30) Dead Child (24) Death (229) Death Of Child (30) Decapitation (66) Deception (54) Demon (33) Desert (63) Destiny (29) Detective (94) Disfigurement (35) Disguise (41) Dismemberment (23) Disturbing (50) Divorce (40) Doctor (75) Dog (83) Double Cross (31) Dream (32) Dream Sequence (24) Drowning (25) Drug Addiction (27) Drug Dealing (37) Drugs (143) Drunkenness (29) Duel (32) Electrocution (37) Elevator (34) Engagement (24) England (23) Epic (29) Erotica (34) Escape (101) Evil (70) Evil Man (25) Ex Convict (42) Execution (37) Exploding Car (38) Exploitation (27) Explosion (81) Face Slap (27) Fall From Height (94) False Accusation (30) Falsely Accused (61) Family (75) Famous Score (26) Farm (31) Father (23) Father Daughter Relationship (98) Father Son Relationship (116) Fear (28) Female Frontal Nudity (58) Female Killer (31) Female Nudity (97) Femme Fatale (28) Fight (88) Fighting (24) Fire (110) Fistfight (34) Flashback Sequence (140) Forest (42) Frame Up (51) France (23) Friendship (105) Fugitive (43) Funeral (59) Gambling (40) Gang (73) Gang Rape (28) Gangster (140) Gay Interest (31) Gay Slur (47) Ghost (87) Girl (23) Gold (30) Good Versus Evil (38) Gore (106) Greed (33) Guilt (38) Gun (155) Gunfight (41) Gunfire (85) Gunshot Wound (46) Handcuffs (27) Hanging (48) Hate (52) Helicopter (79) Hero (28) High School (51) Historical (50) Hitman (75) Homosexual (31) Honor (24) Horse (63) Hospital (93) Hostage (52) Hotel (58) Human Relationship (34) Humiliation (27) Husband Wife Relationship (25) Impalement (58) Impersonation (29) Independent Film (594) Infidelity (70) Insanity (40) Interracial Relationship (32) Interrogation (25) Investigation (51) Island (25) Italy (23) Jail (51) Jealousy (109) Judge (27) Justice (27) Kidnapping (159) Kids And Family (23) Knife (70) Kung Fu (44) Lawyer (50) Lesbian (42) London England (23) Los Angeles California (49) Loss Of Father (33) Loss Of Wife (29) Love (160) Love Triangle (23) Machine Gun (62) Mafia (70) Magic (36) Male Frontal Nudity (31) Male Nudity (42) Maniac (33) Mansion (41) Marriage (127) Marriage Proposal (28) Martial Arts (157) Mask (51) Massacre (44) Melodrama (76) Mental Illness (23) Mentor (26) Mirror (47) Money (37) Monster (35) Mother Daughter Relationship (40) Mother Son Relationship (65) Motorcycle (49) Murder (983) Music (25) Mutilation (30) Narration (39) Native American (37) Nazi (24) Neck Breaking Scene (25) Neo Noir (79) New York (37) New York City (106) Nightclub (67) Nightmare (29) Ninja (22) Nipples (29) Nude Woman Murdered (25) Nudity (196) Obsession (37) Occult (45) Opera (23) Oral Sex (27) Organized Crime (70) Orphan (38) Outlaw (47) Paris France (25) Party (72) Person On Fire (37) Photograph (27) Pistol (29) Poison (42) Police (328) Police Brutality (32) Police Officer (48) Police Officer Killed (37) Political (31) Possession (35) Prayer (25) Pregnancy (32) Premarital Sex (23) Priest (29) Prison (134) Prisoner (24) Profanity (45) Prostitute (54) Prostitution (54) Psychological Drama (25) Psychopath (80) Psychotronic (39) Racial Slur (76) Racism (45) Rampage (31) Rape (235) Redemption (36) Religion (27) Remake (66) Reporter (43) Rescue (70) Restaurant (37) Reverse Footage (23) Rifle (25) Robbery (88) Romance (81) Romantic Rivalry (24) Rooftop (28) Sadism (60) Sadist (35) Saloon (29) San Francisco California (29) Satire (34) School (46) Scientist (25) Seduction (45) Self Sacrifice (38) Sequel (146) Serial Killer (77) Severed Arm (26) Severed Hand (24) Severed Head (36) Sex (186) Sheriff (61) Ship (30) Shooting (36) Shootout (79) Shot In The Arm (26) Shot In The Back (45) Shot In The Chest (74) Shot In The Forehead (66) Shot In The Head (63) Shot In The Leg (33) Shot In The Shoulder (25) Shot To Death (80) Shotgun (55) Showdown (36) Shower Scene (29) Singer (41) Sister (34) Slasher (48) Small Town (72) Smuggling (23) Sniper (30) Snow (27) Softcore (52) Soldier (31) Spaghetti Western (48) Splatter (58) Spy (42) Stabbed In The Back (29) Stabbed In The Chest (30) Stabbed To Death (23) Stabbing (57) Strangulation (36) Stripper (26) Student (23) Subway (26) Suicide (180) Suicide Attempt (25) Superhero (25) Supernatural (94) Surreal (49) Swimming Pool (47) Switchblade (32) Sword (52) Sword Fight (59) Tattoo (31) Teacher (38) Teen (90) Teenager (37) Teenkill (39) Telephone (23) Terror (36) Terrorism (39) Thief (24) Throat Slitting (44) Title Spoken By Character (83) Topless (35) Torture (125) Tragedy (110) Train (87) Traitor (23) Transformation (25) Trial (47) Twist In The End (142) Undercover (28) Unrequited Love (24) Urination Scene (32) Vampire (28) Vengeance (102) Video Game (39) Video Nasty (25) Vigilante (40) Villainess (29) Violence (392) Violent Movie (47) Vulgarity (99) War (33) Warrior (37) Water (24) Wedding (60) Wheelchair (36) Widow (28) Wife (26) Witch (28) Witchcraft (28) Woman (25) WWII (27) Zombie (46)<hr></blockquote> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 7/24/06 3:26 am

by **sunny** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:03 am

HMW, I had a huge long reply to you yesterday that got eaten by ex-board- let me just say that I agree with you on principle, a lot of film and certainly television, try to divert our attention toward meaningless activities, deaden our hearts against grief over the horrors of the world, and implant within us the mindset most conducive to perpetuating the power of the elite. That said, read the words of Rita Mae Brown (remember her? '60's feminist anti-war, lesbian activist?) <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Art is moral passion married to entertainment. Moral passion without entertainment is propaganda, and entertainment without moral passion is television.<hr></blockquote> We need art. Art sustains the inner life, interprets and recasts the events around us, and has the potential to open eyes and change hearts. I'll leave you with this: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The many great gardens of the world, of literature and poetry, of painting and music, of religion and architecture, all make the point as clear as possible: The soul cannot thrive in the absence of a garden. Thomas Moore<hr></blockquote> Take time to smell the roses, HMW. There is still much beauty to appreciate in this world, and there are many films that fit into the category of real art.

by **heyjt** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:48 am

Hugh; Are you channeling my old buddy the late Ace Hayes? -- I still like Lynyrd Skynyrd...

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:14 pm

Sorry for this side note. Ace Hayes deserves it. Here he cites IranContra testimony suppressed by the Mockingbird lie factory about CIA, drugs, Gotti, money laundering, and Mena Airport- <a href="http://www.nofadz.com/~serendip/cia/hayes2.html">www.nofadz.com/~serendip/cia/hayes2.html</a> More on the New York mob at Mena- <a href="http://www.nofadz.com/~serendip/cia/hayes1.html">www.nofadz.com/~serendip/cia/hayes1.html</a> Interesting character. 1940-1998, citizen journalist who died of a brain aneurysm. Daniel Brandt's remembrance: <a href="http://www.redshift.com/~damason/lhreport/articles/acetrib.html">www.redshift.com/~damason...etrib.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr> My records from 1986 to 1988 tell me that Ace had a Kaypro computer, and a brochure he enclosed said that he taught courses at the Red Rose School in Portland. They were titled "Radical Research" and "Secret Government in America." He made his case with his usual foursome: a broad knowledge of current history, a belief in the Constitution and democracy, integrity with common sense, and an instinct that the price of democracy is eternal vigilance.<hr></blockquote> Sounds like the spirit of Rigorous Intuition to me. Jeff has written "this is an anti-fascist site." A-hua! Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 7/24/06 11:18 am

by **starroute** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:35 pm

Still looks like a silly and pernicious flick, but you can't pin minstrel show-based mind games on it.

Trailer for "The Fountain"

HMW is right

Re: HMW is right

Re: HMW is right

Re: HMW is right

Re: HMW is right

Re: HMW is right AND wrong

Re: HMW is right

Re: HMW is right AND wrong

Re: HMW is right AND wrong

Re: HMW is right AND wrong

Re: HMW is right AND wrong

Re: HMW is right AND wrong

Re: HMW is right AND wrong

Re: Channeling Ace Hayes

Er, Hugh, that's John Tucker Must Die

Who is online