David McGowan: Mike Ruppert's Harrowing and Heroic Flight to

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:14 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I just get frustrated because to me there is such a clear pattern and I don't do a good enough job getting others to see it. <hr></blockquote> Boy, do I know that feeling. lol. The lining out of Ruppert's 'burglary' details by McGowan does make me think, "those were too many details that don't add up." And, yes, Venezuela is a key CIA target. Then I back up to Hindsight Mode to consider whether Ruppert has done more to harm to The Powers That Be or helped them while realizing that even having to do that math eats up bandwith and sows doubt, two goals of disinformation agents.  Let us remember how few American readers are as savvy as RI readers and posters and consider how Ruppert's writing is perceived by the average internet left reader, not just by McGowan. As one who has learned from both McGowan and Ruppert and learned to try to try on both worst case-scenario and best case-scenario hats on everybody who comes along to see if they are 'with or against us,' I'm still trying to come up with a bottom line for Ruppert's long history of exposing CIA tactics vs Peak Oil as a status quo-maintaining fiction. Conventional wisdom about disinfo says that it is 85% true and 15% false to be effective and get in the psychic door to trash the place. So has Ruppert's truth-telling really been countered by the probable scam of Peak Oil or has that boobytrap theme not even registered with the intended audience thereby leaving the 85% true standing? Lots of people see 9/11 as oil related due to Ruppert whether or not Peak Oil is real or even considered at all! Consider how many people read John Perkins 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man' but have never even heard of his shape-shifting writing. So far I'm leaning towards thinking Ruppert helped more than he harmed. But I could be wrong. Greg Szymanski, on the other hand, puts out much more nonsense that does harm to his 9/11 articles so I find it easier to judge Szymanski as doing much more harm than good and being a typical disinfo agent. So just because Ruppert vigorously waved the Peak Oil flag does that really make him a sophisticated sleeper? Doesn't just putting the topic of oil economics as the root of American militarism do tremendous good leaving whether Peak Oil is real or not in marginal limbo? It is important enough to put the very topic of oil as a root cause of war out there because our troops and young recruitables are seeing religion as the root of 'terrorism' with war being the cure. So hasn't Ruppert done us all a huge favor just by pointing at Oil, CIA, 9/11, LIHOP or MIHOP? I'm not seeing the damage done, I guess, because I don't think debate over Peak Oil really has the psychological heft others claim it has. I think the absolute value of the key word OIL is far more important to even get juxtaposed with WAR. So seems to me Ruppert has done far more damage to the neocon cover stories and whether Peak Oil is real or not doesn't even come close to the significance of spotlighting the supporting cast in false-flag theater. rambling here but I think I got to it eventually... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 8/28/06 1:24 pm

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:33 pm

I tend to agree with you, Hugh. I think Ruppert's contribution on CIA/drugs and 9/11 is significant. (I particularly valued his arguments against building a case upon physical evidence.) I think his going off the rails was more a matter of character flaw and self-destruction than demonstration that he was working for the other side. And we should have seen it coming. His ego eclipsed his work two or three years ago. Remember FTW's coverage of Gary Webb's funeral? From Ruppert's oration to the photo of the table displaying copies of Crossing the Rubicon, it was All about Mike. Monstrous. It made it hard to agree with him, even when I did, which I increasingly didn't. Now, the flight to Venezuela, of all places, does raise red flags about the game he's playing. (And I don't for a moment buy Ruppert's story about the trashing of FTW's computers and fearing for his life.) Even though I think Ruppert's more likely a loose cannon than a controlled agent, Chavez and his people should still be on guard about letting him get too close. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rigorousintuition>Rigorous Intuition</A> at: 8/28/06 1:38 pm

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:48 pm

From <a href="http://www.fromthewilderness.com/PDF/EulogyNotes.doc">Ruppert's eulogy</a>: There would be no FTW with its 21,000 subscribers in 40 countries without Gary Webb. There would be no book Crossing the Rubicon without Gary Webb. Catherine Austin Fitts and I would never have met had it not been for Gary Webb. Dick Gregory would not have made me his white son on the radio had it not been for Gary Webb. I would never have confronted John Deutch at Locke High had it not been for Gary Webb. I myself might have committed suicide in 1996 - broke, divorced and having given up all hope of making people listen -- had it not been for Gary Webb. His Dark Alliance stories broke just as – for the third time in my life I was struggling that great and most painful a human can face – To be, or not to be. It seems that history, fate; whatever we know as God took the gun from my mouth and placed it to Gary’s head.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:03 pm

Considering that Ruppert publicly said that he was once suicidal, I can see how he could say that Webb finally lost his grip on living with sincerity. Even though I suspect he's wrong. And as for Ruppert being so...well, 'Ruppert-centric'...considering what he has been through including shots fired at him and going up against the LAPD and CIA (there's a difference?), we might be more understanding of why he is the way he is. I just read a 1992 whistleblowing book by former LAPD Organized Crime Intelligence Division officer, Mike Rothmiller called 'L.A. Secret Police: Inside the LAPD Elite Spy Network. <a href="http://www.namebase.org/books50.html">www.namebase.org/books50.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Rothmiller, Mike and Goldman, Ivan G. L.A. Secret Police: Inside the LAPD Elite Spy Network. New York: Pocket Books, 1992. 246 pages. Many first became acquainted with the Los Angeles Police Department in 1992, with the videotape of the Rodney King beating and the subsequent riots. This was common fare for la-la land -- peaceful protesters, for example, learned about LAPD brutality in 1967. Ten years later the ACLU and other citizen groups began investigating the Public Disorder Intelligence Division. In 1983, years after the police commission had ordered PDID to destroy more than 50,000 espionage files, many of these files turned up again. The commission then ordered PDID to disband, whereupon it changed its name to the Anti-Terrorist Division. This was a slick move that used the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles as an excuse. By 1992, LAPD officer Mike Rothmiller was fed up. He blew the whistle by claiming that the Organized Crime Intelligence Division was the real culprit, while PDID had been more or less a media diversion all along. Since 1957 OCID has collected files on everyone, from movie stars to politicians, and even planted a mole in the mayor's office. Rothmiller was an OCID detective from 1978 to 1982, and enjoyed access to many of these files. In this book he reports numerous instances of unwarranted surveillance, ugly racism, and routine perjury by the LAPD. It's not a pretty picture, but it's much more accurate than those cop shows on TV.<hr></blockquote> Rothmiller details the way the OCID acts just like CIA and spies with impunity on Hollywood and California politicians and lets them know about it to chill them. He even got a peek at the sensitive files with the cover-up of too many bullets for Sirhan to be the shooter at the RFK hit (page 106). But Rothmiller took a bullet from a perp protected by the IranContra network and was cut loose and victimized by LAPD to protect that US drug connection and this opened Rothmiller's eyes, too. Funny how all these 'Mikes' saw the same catalyzing thing- Mike Ruppert, Mike Levine, Mike Rothmiller. So when Ruppert takes that whole armed-and-dangerous-with-impunity system on I tend to forgive his idiosyncracies and be grateful for the offered perspective. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 8/28/06 2:08 pm

by **phineas** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:03 pm

This Marc Cooper sure gets around. I see that he is also an editor for L.A. Weekly. Damn. His name comes up in odd places, not the least of which is this noted subject of the two-shots-in-the-back of the head "suicided" Gary Webb, who investigated the CIA/Contras/LA cocaine story, among other things ... Both Al Giordano's and Marc Cooper's names are mentioned as sources for an informative Gary Webb recap article here: <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/gary-webb" target="top">www.answers.com/topic/gary-webb</a> Cooper accepts the suicide line without comment, but then confirms CIA involvement in cocaine imported into the U.S.: <a href="http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/20784/" target="top">www.alternet.org/mediaculture/20784/</a> He has done time in Guatemala and elsewhere, and as mentioned above states that the last Venezuelan Chavez election was a fraud, while the Carter Center states it was not. This Venezuela/Ruppert/Cooper/Webb nexus is interesting... Cooper also quotes someone he describes as “liberal policy analyst Michael Shifter” arguing that Chavez is anti-democratic, without telling us that Shifter is a former National Endowment for Democracy director for Latin America, when... "the State Department’s own internal investigation, which was mostly a whitewash that did not interview a single Venezuelan, acknowledged that “…it is clear that NED [the National Endowment for Democracy], Department of Defense (DOD), and other U.S. assistance programs provided training, institution building, and other support to individuals and organizations understood to be actively involved in the brief ouster of the Chavez government." <a href="http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1643" target="top">www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1643</a> (And Cooper's views and articles on Venezuela are easily found on the net. Legal threats aside, I'm wondering why McGowan didn't mention them while writing about Ruppert in Venezuela as a "Cooper-type" person... ) Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=phineas@rigorousintuition>phineas</A> at: 8/28/06 7:29 pm

by **xsic bastardx** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:12 pm

Ha...I'm feeling good.....I bet Mike Ruppert, with his so called ex-girl friend(his own) CIA ties knows a little more than he is letting on in the Gary webb murder.

by **robertdreed** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:50 pm

Mike Rothmiller...now there's someone I'd really like to hear from again. Just to know that he's still alive and well, and to get his thoughts on what's happened in this country since he wrote his book- an account which ended with his announcement that he was, hmm, going incognito. Disappearing. That's a drastic step, a transition that very few people actually manage. It requires a lot of motivation to disappear, burn all bridges with the past, and start a new life. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 8/28/06 8:26 pm

by **robertdreed** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:07 pm

"...the two-shots-in-the-back of the head "suicided" Gary Webb..." I'm going to have to call you on that, phineas- at minimum, for "embellishing" a story in order to buttress a personal opinion put forth as if it were a point so obviously factual that agreement is the only valid option. The bullets that smashed into Gary Webb's body were fired from the front, into his mouth. The first one hit his jawbone. The Sacramento County coroner who ruled Webb's death a suicide was also quoted, in a Sacramento Bee article published just after the tragedy, that it wasn't the first time in his long career as a coroner that he had encountered a suicide by gunshot that involved two bullets from two pulls on the trigger by the hand of the deceased. He claimed that "while rare, it does happen." I suggest that anyone who insists that 2-shot suicides are physical impossibilities ponder that expert viewpoint. Perhaps they might want to research the question for themselves. If the coroner is correct, there are undoubtedly some references in the extant literature to confirm his professional opinion- references predating the demise of Gary Webb, at that. Of course, it's so easy to simply re-trench by hurling the accusation that the remarks of the coroner "prove" that he must necessarily be "in cahoots with Gary Webb's murderers"- not based on any evidence, but simply as a snap judgement, because otherwise the position that "it must have been murder" is no longer as incontrovertible as its adherents insist is the case. So I have no doubt I'll hear the exact accusation uttered by those who have spent approximately the same amount of time pursuing a background check on the Sacramento County coroner in question as they have in perusing scholarly annals of forensic anthropology to educate themselves about the spectrum of phenomena attendant to gunshot suicides- i.e., none. Nada. Zero. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 8/28/06 8:22 pm

by **Dreams End** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:22 pm

Don't know if the book talks about the "red squads"....whose primary job was to infiltrate many very harmless political groups. Love to read it though. I mentioned my friend who was a P.I. who basically only investigated police abuse cases. He's the one who took pictures of cops IN UNIFORM crossing out gang member names in graffiti...evidently a sort of death threat that would fuel further gang tensions. One of my favorite stories is how he was investigating a very important abuse case in the valley and one deputy told him all the details. They got out into the press and they pressured the deputy to recant. He called her and asked if everything she'd told him was true and she said it was but couldn't deal with the pressure (there was an actual gang of sheriff's deputies in the department...their own gang signs, tattoos, everything.) So we start collecting for his defense fund, for they were saying they were going to prosecute him for making false allegations. He is a pretty cool customer, though. He went to see the investigators and said that before they pushed forward with the charges, they might want to listen to this...and tossed a cassette tape. On it, was the full conversation with the deputy who had publicly recanted, admitting in detail that she'd told him all these things in the first place. Needless to say, no charges were filed. I'm sorry if I'm wrong about Ruppert's agentness...former LAPD, weird CIA ties and his effective spreading of disinfo...not to mention his move to Venezuela...I don't know how else to interpret it. Doesn't rule out that he's ALSO a con artist and/or mentally unstable. In fact, the bad guys use that sort all the time.

by **robertdreed** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:32 pm

If you really want a jolt- first, read the Rothmiller book. Then read Labyrinth, by Randall Sullivan, on the killing of Tupac Shakur. Then read the chapters on the LAPD in City Of Quartz, by Mike Davis. Then read- or re-read- Dark Alliance, by Gary Webb. Try to read all of the material in a 1 or 2-week period. Intensively, like a school assignment you really care about. (Extra credit- The Bluegrass Conspiracy, by Sally Denton. ) Gary Webb would want you to do it. If you do manage to do that, hopefully you will realize that making the circumstances of Webb's death the crux of an indictment of "the system" is rather beside the point. As the result of realizing a lot of other things, in the process... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 8/28/06 8:51 pm

by **robertdreed** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:46 pm

The photo of "Mike Ruppert" on Dave McGowan's website doesn't much resemble the "Mike Ruppert" who came to speak at the Crest Theatre in Sacramento circa 1997, a appearance I attended in person...to be sure, it's been almost 10 years. But I would never have taken the person in that photo for Mike Ruppert, if I had seen him on the street. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 8/28/06 8:48 pm

by **rain** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:12 pm

damn. I'd (momentarily) forgotten Ruppert's take on Webb. (how could you!?) sure puts Ruppert in an interesting space as a text-book cognitive dissonant. or does it evidence a history of where he was leaned on or 'strategically influenced'. both? but I just can't read him as someone who's capable of the really deep, dark consciously duplicitous machinations. but, Venezuela, of all places, now. I'd have thought that would be one place rabid peak oiler's would have had a virtual blind-spot for. who knows. maybe he's had a personal epiphany and will 'eat his hat' on Rubicon and that gawd-awful kow-tow at the NPC. he's gonna put his left foot down. sorry< I'm blithering. it's also that there's been this spate of similar cases/situations/scenarios flung up in the past day or so. Branton et al on the JBR thread is just one example. and speaking of Rubi-con, (or should that be rub-icon?) there's that play that hit broadway back when. and the much deeper politics of the eagle and the condor legend.

by **phineas** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:05 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>"...the two-shots-in-the-back of the head "suicided" Gary Webb..." I'm going to have to call you on that, phineas- at minimum, for "embellishing" a story in order to buttress a personal opinion put forth as if it were a point so obviously factual that agreement is the only valid option. The bullets that smashed into Gary Webb's body were fired from the front, into his mouth. The first one hit his jawbone. <hr></blockquote> Robert- I really have no "personal opinion" to "buttress" here. Two shots from a .38 revolver in the head ruled as a suicide is suspicious in my opinion. I put "suicided" in quotation marks because many believe he was murdered. And the trajectory I quoted is from what I believe to be a responsible website that I linked to, and certainly not an intentional embelishment on my part. Even Ruppert, who states he believes the suicide explanation, says "The entrance wounds for both shots were at or near the right ear, " not "from the front" as you state. Apparently, the first blast blew his lower jaw out. <a href="http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/122004_goodbye_giant.shtml">www.fromthewilderness.com...iant.shtml</a> "On December 10, 2004, he was found dead from gunshot wounds to the head. While acknowledging that the two fatal shots that had entered through the back of his head was unusual, coroner Robert Lyons determined that it was suicide." <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/gary-webb" target="top">www.answers.com/topic/gary-webb</a> Perhaps Webb did shoot himself twice in the head. I admit that I doubt it. I could be wrong. But I do agree with you that "making the circumstances of Webb's death the crux of an indictment of 'the system' is rather beside the point." This was not my intention, and plainly not the crux of my post as you imply. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=phineas@rigorousintuition>phineas</A> at: 8/29/06 2:27 am

by **stickdog99** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:19 pm

What I want to know is if the total collapse of all Western economies is still imminent or not! Without Ruppert around, who is going to keep pushing back the imminent doom date for us? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=stickdog99>stickdog99</A> at: 8/29/06 6:05 pm

by **darkbeforedawn** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:21 pm

There is always Rense!! And the Jehovah Witnesses...

David McGowan: Mike Ruppert's Harrowing and Heroic Flight to

Re: DE's comment and weighing info x disinfo = effect

Re: DE's comment and weighing info x disinfo = effect

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Ruppert and Webb

Mike Rothmiller

Gary Webb

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Weird RI-esque observation by myself...

Re: Ruppert and Webb

Re: Gary Webb

Re: Gary Webb

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