The controlled left

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controlled left and World can't wait

Postby yathrib » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:43 am

I'm surprised that World Can't Wait is a wholly owned subsidiary of the RCP, if indeed it is. When I was at the peace demo nearly a year ago, all the people who were selling t-shirts/collecting contributions, etc. for WCW were other mainstream suburban moms who--I would think--wouldn't touch a gang of sectarian crazies like the RCP w/ the proverbial ten foot pole.<br><br>As for "controlled left:" As with "gatekeepers," etc. it seems mainly to be a term for people who haven't reached the same exalted level of enlightenment as oneself on 9/11 or similar topics, and are therefore either duplicitous or brainwashed. With all the confused and confusing nonsense circulating on various topics, how can you blame people for being skeptical? I was quite excited by "Loose Change" when I saw it, but now see no choice but to retreat to my tentative LIHOP position. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: issues

Postby yesferatu » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:11 am

<<and what the hell are 'the classic debunkers of everything'?<br><br>looking about at the visible world and concluding there is no underlying meaning is perfectly reasonable,<br>it doesnt necassarily make someone see the world as grim and it doesnt necassarily lead to brainwashing and misguided actions<br><br>theres bloody good evidence to support a mechanistic universe in theory, and scant evidence to support a super natural one, the trick is to keep and open mind and a discerning eye,<br>once youve fallen for the trap of pontificating on the stupidity of everyone else your mind is shut<br>theres a smugness of discourse sometimes here,<br>'just look at those ignorant folks, if only they all knew what we know'<br>and i think its just another form of brainwashing>><br><br>I was expecting a response like this. <br>It is funny you question what I could possibly mean by "the classic debunkers of everything" and then go on to say there is "a smugness of discourse" from the the ones whom the debunkers consistently go after. The debunking mind is that which looks upon "those ignorant folks", so I think what you are defending is ludicrous. You can't turn the table, because the table is bolted to the floor.<br><br><<scant evidence to support a super natural one>><br><br>I did not mention a "supernatural world" as the antithesis to the mechanistic universe. That is a childish false polarity that is used for..........debunking.<br><br>Nor did I lump atheists into this. You did.<br> <br><<theres bloody good evidence to support a mechanistic universe in theory>> <br>From Einstein on, most quantum pysicists would disagree. <p></p><i></i>
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WCW

Postby yathrib » Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:54 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Can%27t_Wait">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Can%27t_Wait</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>The wikipedia article on World Can't Wait. The "communist" involvement in groups like International A.N.S.W.E.R. and WCW is a major talking point for rightwingers who still have wet dreams about Joe McCarthy. I say, who cares? Nobody is going to follow these sectarians back to the bad old days of Stalinism, and if they're doing something constructive, especially if no one else seems to be doing it, good for them! <p></p><i></i>
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Re: WCW

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:23 pm

<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.lonestaricon.com/absolutenm/articlefiles/402-may1.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>Six hundred and seventy three cans of EZ-Cheese later, we finally have a suitable actor for Return of Dr. Moreau..<br><br>Has anyone looked at Richard Hoagland's bio pic from his Enterprise psy-op?<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/richard.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>What the hell's with the Miami Vice outfit?<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>These guys are all either dildoramuses or dialed stright into the fucking Dark Side as far as I'm concerned.. <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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Re: The controlled left

Postby darkbeforedawn » Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:30 pm

Sadly, most folks "left" and otherwise don't need controlling. They have already bought into all of it--Though I don't know exactly to what extent people like Cockburn over at CounterPunch has sold out. He recently posted an article giving elaborate credence to the original "Osama" confession tape which aired on DEC 13 01--a clearly obvious fraud. One glance comparing photos of the real Osama is enough to tell anyone that. Question: Now who is controlling Counterpunch? or does he just believe that outing 9-11 hoax right now will destroy what is left of America? What makes them so set on keeping the wraps on 9-11? <p></p><i></i>
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The history of the controlled left

Postby johnny nemo » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:29 pm

I thought that alot of people realized that many of the "revolutionary groups" have been/are controlled by $$$ from the Power Elite.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/3/wallstcartoon.jpg"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>There was even a bit on the "University Challenge" episode of the show "The Young Ones", where these rich kids are bragging about how much money they have and the one Trotsky-looking fellow says "My daddy's bought me the Socialist Worker's Party".<br><br>http://educate-yourself.org/cn/coefficientsclub1993.shtml<br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Coefficients Club: Window on the High Cabal?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The Coefficients Club was organized by Beatrice Webb, the co-ruler of the Fabian Society with her husband Sidney Webb, to bring together the most powerful movers and shakers of the British Establishment</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> with social critics and idealists to discuss and chart the future of British Empire and its relationship to social reform. Among other things, the accounts of its deliberations offered by such luminaries as Bertrand Russell and H. G. Wells prove beyond any doubt that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Fabian Socialism, contrary to surface impressions that it was the enemy of the British Oligarchy, was one of the Oligarchy's most prized instruments for world rule</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. <br><br>Coefficients included: <br><br>Sir Edward Grey, <br>Haldane, <br>Bertrand Russell, <br>Sidney and Beatrice Webb,<br>Leo Maxse (who advocated war with Germany already in 1902), <br>Clinton Dawkins of the City, <br>Carlyon Bellairs of the Navy, <br>Pember Reeves, <br>W. A. S. Hewins, <br>L. S. Amery, <br>H. J. Mackinder, <br>Lord Robert Cecil, <br>Lord Arthur Balfour, <br>Michael Sadler, <br>Henry Newbolt, <br>Lord Alfred Milner, <br>John Hugh Smith,<br>J. Birchenough of the City, <br>Garvin, <br>Josiah Wedgwood (the single taxer), <br>John Hugh Smith, <br>Colonel Repington, <br>F. S. Oliver, and <br>C. F. G. Masterman. <br><br>The main focus of the Webb's Coefficients appeared to center on determining the strategy best suited to defending and expanding the "liberal" British Empire against the increasingly aggressive encroachments of Germany since it had become unified under the leadership of militarist Prussia in then recent decades. Wells and other idealists argued that "The British Empire . . . had to be the precursor of a world-state or nothing . . . It was possible for the Germans and Austrians to hold together in their Zollverein (tariff and trade bloc) because they were placed like a clenched fist in the centre of Europe. But the British Empire was like an open hand all over the world. It had no natural economic unity and it could maintain no artificial economic unity. Its essential unity must be a unity of great ideas embodied in the English speech and literature." (Experiment in Autobiography by H. G. Wells, page 652.) Wells identified Coefficient member Edward Grey as a promoter of the opposing British strategy of provoking Germany to attack France, without adequate warning of consequent British intervention, so that Germany could be laid low sooner than later while the British Navy was still supreme. Lord Grey was the highly influential Foreign Minister for Britain in the years preceding WWI who persuaded a reluctant cabinet that Britain should enter the war because of German violation of Belgian neutrality. (Experiment in Autobiography by H. G. Wells page 659.)<br><br>Though given a respectful hearing behind closed doors in the Coefficient Club, Wells and his "utopians" were temporarily overruled by the official British policy of meeting head-on the German threat to the traditional British orchestrated European "balance of power." Britain, by aping the ultra-statist protectionist economics and severe militarism of Germany and by purposely setting-up entangling alliances, made the carnage of the Great War (WWI) inevitable. This was clear to the disapproving Bertrand Russell in 1902 and caused him to quit the Coefficients in a huff, informing Grey (not then in office) that his proposals would lead to war and tyranny.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>From The Autobiography of<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Bertrand Russell</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Volume I, page 230<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"...<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>in 1902, I became a member of a small dining club called the Coefficients, got up by Sidney Webb for the purpose of considering political questions from a more or less Imperialist point of view. It was in this club that I first became acquainted with H. G. Wells, of whom I had never heard until then.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> His point of view was more sympathetic to me than that of any member. Most of the members, in fact, shocked me profoundly. I remember Amery's eyes gleaming with blood-lust at the thought of a war with America, in which, as he said with exultation, we should have to arm the whole adult male population. One evening Sir Edward Grey (not then in office) made a speech advocating the policy of Entente, which had not yet been adopted by the Government. I stated my objections to the policy very forcibly, and pointed out the likelyhood of its leading to war, but no one agreed with me, so I resigned from the Club. It will be seen that I began my opposition to the first war at the earliest possible moment."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>However, it appears that Wells' "utopian" prescriptions for a British orchestrated World State were ultimately adopted with a vengeance once the lessons of WWI and WWII were learned and the unbearable costs of "official Empire" finally became clear to even the most stubborn Imperialists. It is less clear if Wells' policies were adopted as a new facade for covert British Imperialism, a cynical rationalization for constant destabilization congruent with such covert rule, a sincere attempt to create a World State, or some combination of the three. Two views of Wells' own motivations are also possible.<br> When exposed to the reality and inner workings of the High Cabal of the British Empire through the Coefficients, did he consciously sell-out his idealistic belief in socialism and use his familiarity with radical socialist thought to tailor a cynical propaganda program useful to the "Great Pirates" upon whom his literary success depended . . . or was the process of boot licking subconscious?<br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> One thing is certain, H.G. Wells was one of the few socialists who claimed to see big business, and multinational corporations in particular, as the forerunners of a World Socialist State</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. <br><br>In any case, Wells effectively described the policies in most respects still being effectuated by the Anglo-American Elite. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Students of the ruling class/conspiracy need to study Wells' work in detail if they want to know where we are headed and why. The best statement of H. G. Wells' "utopian" program for moving from World Imperialism to World Government is his sinister novel, The Shape of Things to Come, though his Experiment in Autobiography, The Open Conspiracy, and The New World Order have a lot to offer for the discerning reader as well.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br>I wanted to post this in the thread I started about how movements that many lefties have embraced, such as the sexual revolution, were started by the PTB, but it's been deleted.<br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Jeff, what happened to that thread?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=johnnynemo>johnny nemo</A> at: 8/25/06 12:41 pm<br></i>
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Re: The controlled left

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:32 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>What makes them so set on keeping the wraps on 9-11?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>If one is trying to peel away from 'GOP-ism' the people who believe the War on Terror bin Laden dunnit narrative, you can speak in that language and portray BushCo as a 'failure' at protecting us. <br><br>This is the cheap and easy method to capitalize on their failings and many rationalize that things are bad enough to warrant taking the quick easy opportunistic strike at fascism which doesn't go very deep but is a 'hit' nonetheless.<br><br>"Let's just position for 2006 and 2008 and save the world later."<br><br>But this is a loss-leader argument that serves to prevent debunking the Big Lie which will meanwhile get a new cast of distracting personalities for the audience while the police-state does a flanking manuever to prevent 'the sixties' from happening again.<br><br>The harder but necessary method of peeling people away from 'GOP-ism' is to take the current opening of yet another deadly betrayal by our 'leaders' and run with it as far down the field of truth as possible by saying 'not only that, but THIS,' meaning exposing the whole scam of false-flag terrorism and a total war-profiteering Nazi culture hiding behind the Operation Mockingbird PR machine which generates the domestic Fog Of War and has mortally wounded our entire planet. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The controlled left

Postby Dreams End » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:56 pm

As I thought I was pretty clear about, it's not the fact that it's a communist party...it's the fact that it's the RCP...and that, from what I've seen, they are provocateurs and agents, pure and simple. I have similar feelings about WWP and Ramsey....it's not about should we associate with avowed maoists, it's why does an established "liberal" do so. Liberals are often harder on the far left than Conservatives, despite valiant attempts to confuse liberals and leftists in the mainstream media and even on this board.<br><br>So it's not ideology at the heart of my concern, but simply a question of whether cooperating with state sponsored "opposition" is wise.<br><br>World Can't Wait is another in a long line of such catchphrases by RCP...I can always spot them: Not in My Name, No Business as Usual, etc. And for those with doubts...go to the website and start looking around...you'll see talks by Avakian and writing by Everest, etc. They don't identify them as RCP, but easy to figure out...which might be the point...funneling opposition into easy to discredit "left" movements. <br><br>As I've mentioned elsewhere, Answer did a "beautiful" job of engineering a major split for the anti-war demo that took place just before Gulf War 1 (you remember that one? You can tell them apart because in number one our generals were, for the most part, fatter than they are this go round.)<br><br>So, disrupting, redirecting and keeping tabs on legit opposition would be three motives, right off the bat. I shared my own embarrassing story of having compiled index cards on every person in one anti-war org at the behest of someone I now know to be a police agent. It was for a "speakers bureau" for which, evidently, every member of the coalition was to be available to speak. <br><br>Obviously, she was just getting me to collect data for the LAPD or whoever she worked for. I share that, despite the embarrassing naivete on my part, to show that it does happen. And they also managed to split the coalition quite effectively and found themselves, at an early stage, in charge of all the money. So it does matter if they were agents or not. <br><br>I learned from that experience not to go after personalities (I haven't spoken publicly about the new Peace Center director, for example) but it does help if activists learn about Cointelpro and the like.<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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More on the history of the controlled left

Postby johnny nemo » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:00 pm

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>THE MARBURG PLAN</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Marburg Plan, financed by Andrew Carnegie's ample heritage, was produced in the early years of the twentieth century. It suggests premeditation for this kind of superficial schizophrenia, which in fact masks an integrated program of power acquisition:"What then if Carnegie and his unlimited wealth, the international financiers and the Socialists could be organized in a movement to compel the formation of a league to enforce peace."8<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The governments of the world, according to the Marburg Plan, were to be socialized while the ultimate power would remain in the hands of the international financiers "to control its councils and enforce peace [and so] provide a specific for all the political ills of mankind.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->"9<br><br>This idea was knit with other elements with similar objectives. Lord Milner in England provides the transatlantic example of banking interests recognizing the virtues and possibilities of Marxism. Milner was a banker, influential in British wartime policy, and pro-Marxist.10<br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>In New York the socialist "X" club was founded in 1903. It counted among its members not only the Communist Lincoln Steffens, the socialist William English Walling, and the Communist banker Morris Hillquit, but also John Dewey, James T. Shotwell, Charles Edward Russell, and Rufus Weeks (vice president of New York Life Insurance Company). The annual meeting of the Economic Club in the Astor Hotel, New York, witnessed socialist speakers. In 1908, when A. Barton Hepburn, president of Chase National Bank, was president of the Economic Club, the main speaker was the aforementioned Morris Hillquit, who "had abundant opportunity to preach socialism to a gathering which represented wealth and financial interests."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->11<br><br>From these unlikely seeds grew the modern internationalist movement, which included not only the financiers Carnegie, Paul Warburg, Otto Kahn, Bernard Baruch, and Herbert Hoover, but also the Carnegie Foundation and its progeny International Conciliation. The trustees of Carnegie were, as we have seen, prominent on the board of American International Corporation. In 1910 Carnegie donated $10 million to found the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and among those on the board of trustees were Elihu Root (Root Mission to Russia, 1917), Cleveland H. Dodge (a financial backer of President Wilson), George W. Perkins (Morgan partner), G. J. Balch (AIC and Amsinck), R. F. Herrick (AIC), H. W. Pritchett (AIC), and other Wall Street luminaries. Woodrow Wilson came under the powerful influence of — and indeed was financially indebted to — this group of internationalists. As Jennings C. Wise has written,<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> "Historians must never forget that Woodrow Wilson... made it possible for Leon Trotsky to enter Russia with an American passport."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->12</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>The Washington Post of February 2, 1918, carried the following paragraphs: <br><br>GIVES BOLSHEVIKI A MILLION <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>W. B. Thompson, Red Cross Donor, Believes Party Misrepresented. New York, Feb. 2 (1918) .<br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> William B. Thompson, who was in Petrograd from July until November last, has made a personal contribution of $1,000,000 to the Bolsheviki for the purpose of spreading their doctrine in Germany and Austria</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. <br><br>Mr. Thompson had an opportunity to study Russian conditions as head of the American Red Cross Mission, expenses of which also were largely defrayed by his personal contributions. He believes that the Bolsheviki constitute the greatest power against Pro-Germanism in Russia and that their propaganda has been undermining the militarist regimes of the General Empires. <br><br>Mr. Thompson deprecates American criticism of the Bolsheviki. He believes they have been misrepresented and has made the financial contribution to the cause in the belief that it will be money well spent for the future of Russia as well as for the Allied cause. <br><br>Hermann Hagedorn's biography The Magnate: William Boyce Thompson and His Time (1869-1930) reproduces a photograph of a cablegram from J.P. Morgan in New York to W. B. Thompson, "Care American Red Cross, Hotel Europe, Petrograd." The cable is date-stamped, showing it was received at Petrograd "8-Dek 1917" (8 December 1917), and reads: <br><br>New York Y757/5 24W5 Nil — Your cable second received.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> We have paid National City Bank one million dollars as instructed — Morgan.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The National City Bank branch in Petrograd had been exempted from the Bolshevik nationalization decree — the only foreign or domestic Russian bank to have been so exempted.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><br>8 Jennings C. Wise, Woodrow Wilson: Disciple of Revolution (New York: Paisley Press, 1938) , p.45<br><br>9 Ibid., p.46<br><br>10 See p. 89.<br><br>11 Morris Hillquit, Loose Leaves from a Busy Life (New York: Macmillan, 1934), p. 81.<br><br>12 Wise, op. cit., p. 647</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=johnnynemo>johnny nemo</A> at: 8/25/06 1:08 pm<br></i>
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Dream's End, et al

Postby yathrib » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:28 pm

Yes, I guess you were clear that the fact that these groups were communist wasn't the issue for you. I guess I was responding to some of the rhetoric I found in researching the matter.<br><br>But... These groups are sponsoring some of the only visible dissent that seems to be happening. If I attend a WCW rally, I'm expressing *my* dissent. WCW as an org is irrelevant to me. Now if we refuse to participate because they are--for the sake of argument--"controlled," what action should we take? If your answer is to watch the skies for signs of the end, I can't go there with you. Sorry if that sounds snide.<br><br>Pictures of dildoramuses:<br><br>Okay... I know who Richard Hoagland is, but I have never seen the other guy in my life. What do either of them have to do with WCW, etc.? Just asking...<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Failure of the Left--Zizek, for example

Postby LoganSquare » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:41 pm

<br>There was a thread recently on RI that concerned an open letter to Slavoj Zizek which asked him not to attend the Jerusalem Film Festival (in protest of Israeli policies). In tracing the source of the letter I found myself on the &#8220;I Cite&#8221; blog of Prof. Jodi Dean. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://jdeanicite.typepad.com/i_cite/2006/07/stupid_911_cons.html">jdeanicite.typepad.com/i_..._cons.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>That day Dean had posted a letter someone had sent her who was upset with her enthusiastic participation in a very nasty and very crude Showtime program attempting to debunk 911 conspiracy research&#8212;&#8220;That&#8217;s Just Stupid." The letter was long and carefully written and made many references to serious research conducted by Dean's peers such as Prof. Steven Jones. The letter writer wanted Dean to consider their research. <br><br>A typical response to the letter (in the comments section of Dean's blog) was:<br><br>"Interesting letter, Jodi. What stands out the most to me is the intensity of jouissance that speaks in the author's words. In speaking about conspiracy theories it's clear that you've touched on something fundamental for him that is experienced as very threatening to something else. What desire, I wonder, does the conspiracy theory allow one to maintain? What desire is undermined in undermining a conspiracy theory?"<br><br>Here is an excerpt from Dean&#8217;s response to another commentor:<br><br>"Back to conspiracy theories - I think this partially a reaction to the breakdown of the symbolic. The conspiracy acts as a "Real", the truth underlying daily existence. As you said re: Poltergeist - shit happens to good people with no warning. The Real really is real - it just emerges.<br>The conspiracy is what haunts these people (and I have to add myself occasionally); is it surprising that the conspirators are portrayed as the living dead? Child molesters, satan worshippers, cannibalism, nun murderers, assassination experts, Knights of Templar, Masons, Opus Dei, etc.<br>The jouissance of the conspiracy buff is very similar to the horror aficionado - is it the close encounter with / while avoiding the real?<br>What exactly does the conspiracy theorist want to accomplish - a longer and longer mental run down the rabbit hole? What is there to do beside despair of one's individual helplessness. Or is the feeling of being close to the evil, while avoiding responsiblity for change exciting?"<br><br>Dean is the author of the upcoming book Zizek&#8217;s Politics and the editor of the upcoming Journal of International Zizek Studies. Zizek (and Dean apparently) subscribe to the mainstream conspiracy theory of 911 being perpetrated by Muslim fanatics and Zizek loves to put his ideas in the context of movies, for example:<br><br>'.....Is, . . . . Osama Bin Laden, the suspected mastermind behind the bombings, not the real-life counterpart of Ernst Stavro Blofeld, the master-criminal in most of the James Bond films, involved in the acts of global destruction. What one should recall here is that the only place in Hollywood films where we see the production process in all its intensity is when James Bond penetrates the master-criminal's secret domain and locates there the site of intense labor (distilling and packaging the drugs, constructing a rocket that will destroy New York...). When the master-criminal, after capturing Bond, usually takes him on a tour of his illegal factory, is this not the closest Hollywood comes to the socialist-realist proud presentation of the production in a factory? And the function of Bond's intervention, of course, is to explode in firecrakers this site of production, allowing us to return to the daily semblance of our existence in a world with the "disappearing working class." Is it not that, in the exploding WTC towers, this violence directed at the threatening Outside turned back at us?"<br><br>Etc, etc, etc. This is what passes for analyses of 911 in Leftist intellectual cyberspace and universities. <br><br>However, while Dean may have a problem believing (or even considering) Steven Jones' thoughtful presentation on the demolition of WTC7, she has no problem, for example, following Zizek&#8217;s (Lacanian) concept of Nazism:<br><br>"That National Socialism sought to condense and displace antagonism onto the Jew, Zizek argues, tells us that the discourse of Nazism is the discourse of the master. The discourse of the Master is the first of Lacan&#8217;s four discourses or four accounts of the social link provided in and through communication. These four discourses are a series constituted by moving step-by-step, clockwise, through the various positions in Lacan&#8217;s formula of the signifier, that the signifier represents the subject for another signifier, or, understood more generally, that a signifier is that which has a meaning effect, that this effect occurs in relation to other signifiers, and that this effect will exceed these relations.[iii] <br>The formula is written: <br> S1 S2 <br> $ a<br> <br>The places of the formula are:<br> agent other<br> truth production<br> <br>And the terms stand for: S1, the master signifier; S2, knowledge; $, the subject; a, jouissance.<br>In this formula, we can distinguish between each element and the place it occupies. Movement through the various positions, or, moving an element from one position to another, designates the way that no element ever fully fits with its place; it can move, become displaced and this displacement has effects on the social link that results. In the discourse of the Master, the master speaks. The master occupies the position of the speaking. His words are supported by truth. Or, more precisely, his words are true; there is no truth other than what he says; because he says the words, they are true. This formula also tells us that the master signifier, in its truth, grounds or establishes knowledge. It represents truth, in other words, for all the other signifiers, for S2, the signifying chain. Yet, the foundation in truth that the master provides is not full, not total. The very effort to establish a master produces an excess, enjoyment. Hence, objet petit a is in the position of production."<br><br>Therein lays the problem with the Left.<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Failure of the Left--Zizek, for example

Postby darkbeforedawn » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:50 pm

The effect of the fake communists and other infiltrators is nothing when you compare the effect the fake media has on our collective psyches and views of reality. This media has made a virtual world with enough correspondance to reality to fool most of the people most of the time. They just conveniently leave out a lot, like the current scandals touching on leading figures in Israel and the Israeli spies and Israeli war crimes, Israeli connection to 9-11, Dov Zakheim etc. etc. Hey DE why do you think that might be???? Do you think our media might be CONTROLLED???Nah....just a coincidence. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Failure of the Left--Zizek, for example

Postby Dreams End » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:23 pm

The two aren't mutually exclusive...the thread was about the fact that among leftists who are quite aware that the media is full of B.S., they seek an outlet, groups or organizations who are working to oppose the system. When the system directly controls one of the groups they turn to, then it's a double whammy...may not affect the general population as much but it does keep the potential dissidents in check, no?<br><br>The levels and layers of control are complex and frustratingly deep. Whether "philanthropic" organizations, or corporate sponsored public television and radio, or overtly corporate media (at least it's more apparent who they work for), state influenced jingoistic film and television and money-grubbing knock off's of the same (many 9/11 - terrorist related shows surely came about as a way to make some cash off of tragedy, though admittedly, some of them look an awful lot like deliberate plants, justifying torture, etc.)<br><br>So I was really questioning what to do when you have aware people who then channel their energies into areas that seem very likely to have been deliberately created to keep that energy under control. I agree that "don't go to those protests" is probably not the best approach...I've always said that about ANSWER sponsored stuff. But I don't think we can shrink from honestly assessing what's going on.<br><br>Take those freaking Ghost Warriors....how close to the core of the whole Sheehan thing are they? Would YOU be comfortable participating in actions with someone like that in leadership?<br><br>There was a spy guy in L.A., a member of the Mexican state sponsored pseudo-left guerilla movement, 'PROCUP". Despite the violent past of this movement (I stood on the very spot in which they gunned down a La Jornada journalist, like many such state sponsored groups, these "leftists" had an affinity for targeting OTHER Leftists) this guy had no trouble getting a multi entry visa into the U.S. Mexican activists often would not even go to the same parties where this guy was...they understood who he was and what was going on. They didn't stop being activists but they had to draw some tactical lines....or at least tend to their personal security.<br><br>I'll have a closer look at Nemo's stuff. I tend to think the "one central group" controls everything theme oversimplifies and ends up often hanging out in John Birch Land. For example, I think it very possible that any large capitalist interest would immediately start pouring money into a country newly organized after a revolution, whatever their politics, under the assumption that there's money to be made...it doesn't, then, prove that the same capitalist was behind the revolution in the first place. Sort of like saying McDonald's were backing Mao. Hey, there are now golden arches on every corner.....<br><br>And I wish we could define our terms...true industrialists, by definition, cannot be socialists....as their large industry would likely be nationalized and they don't get to be large industrialists anymore. I realize many things have been done calling itself socialism, but it's a simple economic definition.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Failure of the Left--Zizek, for example

Postby havanagilla » Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:08 am

conspiracy theory is a political tool for change, if played out right, and it was used in the struggle for independence by the US against the UK, quite successfully. it can be successful now in by passing the media, which serves the current rulers. and to create a different public opinion, favorable for those who spread the theory and support it.<br>but europeans and others, do not necessarily share the tactic, as they don't use it in their land.<br>---<br>and i am not sure this kind of political struggle will or can change the economic-social structure from capitalism to socialism, but it can cause a downfall of some of the elite groups from power, to be replaced by others, who are "untouched" by the conspiracy. Socialism in the USA...this might follow a war or something, not the usual politics, that's just my feeling about how deep capitalism and america are identical. <br><br>--<br>the left IS controlled in the USA (and now in Israel, as a result), because it challenges the power structure, and they use what they can. it was used against external enemies at the time, and now against what is viewed as domestic "enemies" of the system. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>there was never an opposition in the USA</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, and when there was some, they were manipulated and murdered. that's politics in the USA, which is fine, as long as everyone agrees, and as long as it is not exported to the ME as a "superior political system". <br>---<br> DE describes a core of "pure" legit virgin left, attacked by agents and a host of zombie sex baits and MC robots in the service of the evil FBI...ah<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>...that's funny.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> even though it runs through the board very often, the image of sons of light and sons of darkness, the few "elect and pure at heart" and the evil corrupt world of liars. That's a christian theme of the pure sects that preceded paulian christianity...a kind of "essenes" mentality. The treatment of MC victims is very telling, because in the essentialist division of good vs evil, they are already "tainted", the soul is not clean, maybe they should be led to euthanesia, for the salvation of their Judas soul, that was led to betray (under torture, but that doesn't matter, on eternal soul level inquisitorial standards).<br><br>----<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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The Plot Sickens

Postby johnny nemo » Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:41 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'll have a closer look at Nemo's stuff. I tend to think the "one central group" controls everything theme oversimplifies and ends up often hanging out in John Birch Land. For example, I think it very possible that any large capitalist interest would immediately start pouring money into a country newly organized after a revolution, whatever their politics, under the assumption that there's money to be made...it doesn't, then, prove that the same capitalist was behind the revolution in the first place. Sort of like saying McDonald's were backing Mao. Hey, there are now golden arches on every corner.....<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I used to think the exact same thing.<br>I thought it was a total red herring, or some rightwing nutjob's B.S. until I researched it.<br><br>I first stumbled upon some of this info when I was reading Greil Marcus's "Lipstick Traces", which is a book about Dadaist history and it's effect on punk.<br>He mentioned that Lenin lived near the Cabaret Voltaire and that Trotsky played chess with Baron Rothschild, in another Dadaist Cafe in Vienna.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.rightreading.com/daybook_pages/june-3.htm">www.rightreading.com/dayb...june-3.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>1916: The Dadaist Cabaret Voltaire is shut down. While authorities regard the artists as dangerous,<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> they show little concern about another resident on the narrow alleyway where the Cafe is located (Spiegelgasse 14), scholarly Mr. Uljanow (aka Lenin)</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/lenin-trotsky.html">users.cyberone.com.au/mye...otsky.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>On Trotsky, the following is from Josepha Nedava's book Trotsky and the Jews (Nedava himself is Jewish): <br><br>Joseph Nedava, Trotsky and the Jews, The Jewish Publication Society of America, Philadelphia 5732 / 1972. <br><br>{p. 36} A Jewish journalist who knew Trotsky from the period of his stay in Vienna ("<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>when he (Trotsky) used to play chess with Baron Rothschild in Cafe Central"</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->)</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>I wondered why Communists would spend time with uber-Capitalists?<br>Then I researched more and found out something shocking.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_99/kutyn021699.html">www.gold-eagle.com/gold_d...21699.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The two Warburg brothers who financed Trotsky had a brother in Berlin, who with the help of the German High Command, put Lenin in a sealed train, gave him eight million pounds in gold, and got the train to Moscow, there to meet up with Trotsky. Thus Bolshevism triumphed in Russia, and all financed by the same people that controlled the Fed.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>I started to see that, rather than fighting Communism, the rich were FINANCING COMMUNISM.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>“The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control… Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in int</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->[/b]<br>Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976,<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/communism1.html">www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/communism1.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Through the person of David Rockefeller, the family is sometimes called "the first family of the Soviet Union."<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Only he and Dr. Armand Hammer, the moving force behind USTEC, have permanent permission to land their private planes at the Moscow Airport.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Others would suffer the fate of KAL 007.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> David Rockefeller's most significant trip to the Soviet Union may have been the fateful day when he landed in Moscow, having been told to inform Khrushchev that he was "through"</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. The Russians are very health conscious, and a scientist had sent information to Khrushchev that the use of chemical fertilizers in the Soviet Union presented a threat to the people. Khrushchev then announced a major change in the Soviet farm policy, centering around a reduction in the use of chemicals. This was upsetting to the head of the world's Chemical Fertilizer trust, David Rockefeller, and he responded with a terse one word command, "Out".<br><br><br><br>The involvement of the Rockefellers in promoting the World Communist Revolution also developed from their business interests. There was never any commitment to the Marxist ideology; like anything else, it was there to be used. At the turn of the century, Standard Oil was competing fiercely with Royal Dutch Shell for control of the lucrative European market. Congressional testimony revealed that Rockefeller had sent large sums of money to Lenin and Trotsky to instigate the Communist Revolution in 1905. His banker, Jacob Schiff had previously financed the Japanese in their war against Russia and had sent a personal emissary, George Kennan to Russia to spend some twenty years in promoting revolutionary activity against the Czar. <br><br>When the 1905 revolution failed, Lenin was placed "in storage" in Switzerland until 1907.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Trotsky was brought to the U.S., where he lived rent free on the Standard Oil property at Bayonne, New Jersey, its tank field. When the Czar abdicated, Trotsky was placed on a ship with three hundred Communist revolutionaries from the Lower East Side of New York. Rockefeller obtained a special passport for Trotsky from Woodrow Wilson and sent Lincoln Steffens with him to make sure he was returned safely to Russia. For traveling expenses, Rockefeller placed a purse containing $10,000 in Trotsky's pocket.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br><br>On April 13, 1917, when the ship stopped in Halifax, Canadian Secret Service officers immediately arrested Trotsky and interred him in Nova Scotia. The case became an international cause célèbre, as leading government officials from several nations frantically demanded Trotsky's release. The Secret Service had been tipped off that Trotsky was on his way to take Russia out of the war, freeing more German armies to attack Canadian troups on the Western Front. <br><br>Prime Minister Lloyd George hurriedly cabled orders from London to the Canadian Secret Service to free Trotsky at once - they ignored him.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Trotsky was finally freed by the intervention of one of Rockefeller's most faithful stooges, Canadian Minister Mackenzie King, who had long been a "labor specialist" for the Rockefellers. King personally obtained Trotsky's release and sent him on his way as the emissary of the Rockefellers, commissioned to win the Bolshevik Revolution.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Thus, Dr. Armand Hammer, who loudly proclaimed his influence in Russia as the friend of Lenin, has an insignificant claim compared to the role of the Rockefellers in backing world Communism.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://autarchic.tripod.com/files/alliance.html">autarchic.tripod.com/files/alliance.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"One of the chief German financiers of the Russian Revolution was<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> M. M. Warburg, who made millions available to the Russian Communists through a bank in Sweden. In America, Jacob Schiff, a partner and brother-in-law of Warburg, contributed $20 million to the Russian Revolution."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> (Paper Relating to the Foreign Relations of the U.S.-Russia, 1918. House Document no. 1868, U.S. Government Printing Office. See also extensive treatment of this question in Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution, by Antony C. Sutton, Arlington House, New York, 1974). <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>In 1930 the Ford Motor Company established the Russian motor car industry by constructing a factory "capable of turning out 140,000 cars a year." By the end of the decade the factory, at Gorki, was one of the largest in the world. Ford also provided training for the Russians in assembling automobiles "plus patent licenses, technical assistance, and advice," and "an inventory of spare parts."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> (Keller, East Minus West Equals Zero, pp. 208-209, 215-216).<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Americans also built, in the Soviet Union, the largest iron and steel works in the world; patterned after the city of Gary, Indiana. The huge steel complex, built at Maginitogorsk, was constructed by a Cleveland firm.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> (Ibid., pp. 209-210). <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Between 1921 and 1925 "$37 million of machinery and equipment were pumped into the Soviet economy by American industry."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Of course, at the time there were no diplomatic relations between the two countries. Some of the trade agreements made between the Soviet government and American industrialists are very interesting. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"U.S. firms acquired gold-prospecting rights, the Standard Oil Company won an oil-bearing concession, Averell Harriman built mines to work manganese ore deposits, General Electric sold Moscow electric equipment to the valve of over $20 million, and other American firms set about reequipping Russian industry."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> (Keller, East Minus West Equals Zero, pp. 198-199).</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br>I wondered what the ultimate goal was, and I found that they revealed it multiple times, in multiple quotes.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.renewamerica.us/forum/?date=040822&message=302">www.renewamerica.us/forum...essage=302</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>“The Governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other Governments, with emperors, kings and ministers,<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> but also with the secret societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and all the Governments’ pla</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->[/b]<br>Year 1876<br>By Benjamin Disraeli<br>First British Prime Minister<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br>Franklin D. Roosevelt, U.S. President, in a letter written November 21, 1933 to Colonel E. Mandell House.<br><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br>James Paul Warburg, son of Paul Warburg, who was active in the United World Federalists for a World Government, stated before the U.S. Senate, February 17, 1950.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Humanity needs world order. The fully sovereign nation is incapable of dealing with the poisoning of the environment... <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The management of the planet...requires a world government."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br>Norman Cousins (CRF), long-time president of the United World Federalists (not the World Federalist Association), on Earth Day, April 22, 1970.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"By the end of this decade, we will live under the first One World Government that has ever existed in the society of nations ... a government with the absolute authority to decide the basic issues of human survival.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> One world government is inevitable."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br>Pope John Paul II as quoted by Malachi Martin, a Roman Catholic priest in his book, The Keys To This Blood.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>“We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> All the time we are denying with our lips what we are doing with our hands.”</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br>Arnold Toynbee, “The Trend of International Affairs Since the War”, International Affairs, November 1931<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>“We are on the verge of a global transformation.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.”</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>David Rockefeller<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=johnnynemo>johnny nemo</A> at: 8/26/06 1:59 pm<br></i>
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