The Ongoing Disgrace of Democratic [sic] Underground [sic]

[dugoboy]

Jeff, is this where you were on the WTC that you mentioned in the Freewheelin' post?<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.pbase.com/image/16641876/original.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.frankgambale.com/media/wtcpics.htm/12.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p>___________________________________________<br>"BUSHCO aren't incompetent...they are COMPLICIT."</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dugoboy@rigorousintuition>dugoboy</A> at: 6/3/06 4:27 pm<br></i>

[Rigorous Intuition]

Yeah, that was it, though it was night when we were up there. We'd had bbq up the street at the <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.tnmountain.com/">Tennessee Mountain</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> in Soho, which I've read has just closed. Damn.<br><br>Haven't been back to NYC since 9/11. Haven't even crossed the border. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rigorousintuition>Rigorous Intuition</A> at: 6/3/06 4:46 pm<br></i>

[mogster]

Hi folks <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>I think that it is talk about DU itself and especially calling out DU'ers on 'back boards' that makes for them not to be mentioned at the DU board.<br>I have always appreciated your posts, Jeff. You should keep posting at the DU, even though they move some posts or otherwise hamper the free discussion.<br>This post moved to the September 11 forum clearly links Al-Queda and Iraq, and speaks for itself. It was erroneous moderation, at best.<br>I'm not averse to the mods at the DU, they do a difficult job and the place must be under heavy political pressure too.<br>It's going mainstream, and the only way to keep it attached to the left/liberal is for left liberals to continue to post there.<br><br>I like this place though <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8o --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/nerd.gif ALT="8o"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br> <p></p><i></i>

[mogster]

That quote from the dailykos is outlandish, btw.<br>Here's another:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The conspiracists by kos<br>Fri Jul 08, 2005<br><br>Today I did something I've never done before (not even during the Fraudster mess), and wish I'd never had to do.<br><br>I made a mass banning of people perpetuating a series of bizarre, off-the-wall, unsupported and frankly embarassing conspiracy theories.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>I have a high tolerance level for material I deem appropriate for this site</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, but one thing I REFUSE to allow is bullshit conspiracy theories. You know the ones -- Bush and Blair conspired to bomb London in order to take the heat off their respective political problems. I can't imagine what fucking world these people live in, but it sure ain't the Reality Based Community.<br><br>So I banned these people, and those that have been recommending diaries like it. And I will continue to do so until the purge is complete, and make no mistake -- <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>this is a purge</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Indeed.<br>A purge.<br>And where reality ends and conspiracy theories begin is up to the owner to decide.<br><br>I used to think the kos was some kind of free liberal space, but this is just ridiculous. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[DrDebugDU]

Hi Mogster <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Welcome to the deep parapolitics board<br><br>> I like this place though<br><br>It's a place where you can let your intuition go wild and see what you end up with. I can be quite fun <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[dugoboy]

yea KOS enacted the great 'purge' as he calls it just one day after the 7/7 bombings in london. you should have seen dailykos, it was diary after diary saying how it was an inside job and about the various discrepencies between 5 or 7 bombings and MI5. <br><br>i now find this particular line from Kos' declaration ironic:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I can't imagine what fucking world these people live in, but it sure ain't the Reality Based Community.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>just cracks me up, the 'Reality Based Community' is a reference to that notorius anonymous Suskin quote. mr. Kos sure ain't either sadly.<br><br>more and more people do talk about LIHOP or MIHOP on kos, but thats about the extent it goes. <br><br>i do bet you a significant portion of lefties would say bush will 'let' another terrorist attack happen but they would'nt even conceive that maybe the democrats would too? but maybe not, as i've said elsewhere i think environmentalism will be the big fear inducing juggernaut for the democrats now. <p>___________________________________________<br>"BUSHCO aren't incompetent...they are COMPLICIT."</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dugoboy@rigorousintuition>dugoboy</A> at: 6/3/06 5:55 pm<br></i>

[Wolfmoon Lady]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This post moved to the September 11 forum clearly links Al-Queda and Iraq, and speaks for itself.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>YES! Thanks for pointing this out, Mogster. That was first reaction. The single most important thing to notice about that thread is where they put it. As for DU, I don't have the time or interest to read/post there.<br><br>Dug, I'd say you're 100% right about most 'lefties.' I know way too many self-identified 'leftist-progressives' who think Hillary would 'make a great president'. When I offer my opinion that Hill is part of the problem, I get frozen stares, at best, or accusations of being a closet neo-con, at worst. That is often followed by a remark on my lack of feminist sensibilities -- a slur that I love to refute by asking, "Am I expected to support a woman running for president just because she has a vagina, or rather because she holds true to the political views that I personally espouse?" Duh. <p></p><i></i>

[snowlion2]

I don't often quote Martin Luther, but this seems a fitting encore to Wolfmoon Lady's # 17:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"Better be ruled by a smart Turk than a dumb Christian."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=snowlion2>snowlion2</A> at: 6/4/06 2:01 pm<br></i>

[bamabecky]

If they don't like what you say or how you say it, they will not respond. The make that clear in the rules. I kept trying to get them to tell me what I did wrong and they never responded. Apparently discussing the Federal Reseve and Eustus Mullins in the same post scorches the DUVatican pantiloons??? I go over there now just to read, but hardly EVER find something really interesting to dig into. I read books now and post very little as my patience with jerks has worn thin. DU would have been a great place, but will never be due to the CONTROL they have over it.<br>Bama <p>Be the Media! Write a personal essay to your friends and family, telling them what's going on and tell them how and where to find more info.</p><i></i>

[starroute]

Years ago, I worked out a sort of four-way schema of where people fit politically depending on whether they do or don't believe in the political system and do or don't believe in evil.<br><br>Liberals believe in the system but not in evil. This is what makes them progressives -- they think there is no limit to how far the system can be improved, because there are no powerful external forces capable of holding it back.<br><br>Conservatives believe in both the system and evil. They think that human nature is innately flawed, that government exists mostly as a constraint on the wicked, and that there isn't much reason to expect things will be better in the future than they have been in the past.<br><br>Anarchists don't believe either in the system or in evil. The more positive among them think that human beings left to their own devices will pretty much do the right thing, and that government and other social institutions are themselves the sources of crime and suffering. The more negative accept that humans have a seemingly unlimited ability to crap things up, but tend to attribute that to the naturally entropic nature of existence and see some hope for gradual evolutionary progress despite it.<br><br>Nihilists believe in evil but not in the system. They think that everything is corrupt with no way out, and that any suggestion otherwise is hypocrisy or propaganda.<br><br>Most people here at RI, I suppose, are anarchists or nihilists. Not much faith in the system, a common willingness to believe the worst of it -- but some degree of division on whether there are icky things out there working to corrupt, enslave, and destroy or if it's just normal human greed and selfishness.<br><br>In contrast, the reigning philosophy over at DU is liberal/progressive. This means they *have* to believe in the system -- if not in the present corrupt system, then at least in the potential for a reformed and rightly-directed system. Similarly, they *can't* believe in evil, or in any sort of permanent dark strain to human affairs that is doomed to derail even the best-meaning plans for improvement. They have to deny or turn away anything that might challenge their paradigm, because to let go of it would be to let go of their essential identity.<br><br>So don't blame DU or Kos for being what they are. It's their role, their position in the anti-establishment ecosystem, and they're fulfilling it very adequately. The real problem I see is that there's nothing in between DU and RI. As I've said here before, I'd love it if there was a general political board with a more radical slant than DU but with a deep focus on social problems and solutions rather than on conspiracies and dark forces.<br><br>But since there isn't, I have to get the information and the soulfood I need wherever I can find them -- and if that means RI in the morning and DU in the afternoon, so be it.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[DrDebugDU]

Actually I like PI because it's in between this place (which is sometimes too far into the deep end) and DU (which has become too much read-only since discussions are too often non-constructive or influenced by the censorship/cointelpro)<br><br>As far as the system goes, I believe it can work, however there is a limit to the number of people who can work together until it becomes some form of authoritarian rule. And that's the whole issue. The limit is a couple of hunderd people or what we used call a tribe and that's our evolutionary limit and we haven't evolved beyond that. Anything which is bigger moves towards some form of dictatorship.<br><br>So DU and Dailykos have ventured beyond the size limit and cannot sustain themselves without authoritarian rule and Stalinesque-techniques. This place is too small so it can sustain. All countries, states and cities are also too big to allow freedom to flourish.<br><br>There is one country which managed to be great without any laws, government, institutions. That country was called Cospaia and the only reason why it existed is because a small strip of land went unmentioned in the sale treaty in 1440 between Florence and the Papal states and the small strip immediately declared itself independent and was highly successful as a smuggling state until 1826 when it was swallowed by its neighbors.<br><br>Just imagine a place without any rulers or any rules and it survived for 386 years...<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Europe/Italy/Umbria/Perugia/S.Giustino/Cospaia/home.html">penelope.uchicago.edu/Tha.../home.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>I guess I'm a nihilist... because I believe that evil exists. <p></p><i></i>

[dugoboy]

starroute, you have a very excellent system devised there. it covers all bases. in light of that, i suppose you'd call me an anarchist with bouts of nihilism who was formerly a liberal.<br><br>..hmm wow now that i think about it..the hurricane katrina event is really what kicked me into the anarchist perspective. when i first discovered RI, it was the post jeff wrote about those strange anomalies on the radar screen surrounding the hurricane. and now i'm here...witnessing an ever expanding hell.. but i must look forward, keep looking and understanding and perhaps one day be in a position to make others understand whats going on...its my only choice it feels..or i go off the deep end which is the GLP forums HAHA!<br><br> <p>___________________________________________<br>"BUSHCO aren't incompetent...they are COMPLICIT."</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dugoboy@rigorousintuition>dugoboy</A> at: 6/4/06 6:27 pm<br></i>

[HamdenSRice]

Jeff, this thread persuaded me to join your board, which I have been thinking of doing for some time. Did the admins ever respond to your email?<br><br>Also, I hope my "death watch" post wasn't taken in the wrong spirit -- just my sometimes morbid sense of humor! <p></p><i></i>

[nashvillebrook]

where people talked about the thread being moved. talk about using a fine-tooth comb.<br><br>what bugs me about DU is they think they are a NEWS site -- with the *responsibility* to ?? censor what people write. but they aren't a NEWS site -- they are a FORUM. the whole purpose of *forum* is for ideas to stand on their own, or not. DU is not 'the press.' <br><br>all the forum sites that are forbidden to mention are ex-DU'ers who were forced to go their own way b/c of maltreatment at DU. yea, verily -- they will never be spoken of again. this is just childish.<br><br>as i read Jeff's post, i wondered if they didn't *shut him down* b/c of the links to RI??? could it be that Jeff's own site is the source of their consternation? <br><br>You, Sir, are not a reliable source. Off with your head!<br><br>(that was my Magistrate imitation) <p></p><i></i>

[Rigorous Intuition]

Hey Hamden, glad to see you here!<br><br>I'd been wondering if Mopaul was still around DU, and I learned tonight he'd been tombstoned. Do you know anything about that?<br><br>I haven't received any response from DU admin. Kinda disappointed they didn't tombstone me. I'd be proud to belong to that club.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>