Why are 'they' scaring us away from the news?

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Re: The Titanic and the rappers

Postby professorpan » Wed May 10, 2006 2:26 pm

DE,<br><br>If you follow this thread back, you'll see that I am in complete agreement with you about corporate control of media, especially the news. And I've also acknowledged the media collaboration with the military (particularly in films with militiary themes/plots/hardware).<br><br>I also agree that there are self-censorship policies in the media culture, again, most obvious in the news programming.<br><br>What I don't see evidence of is an orchestrated, elite, large-scale program to control the creative content of movies, music, television, and books. The differences between me and some of the others on this thread is a matter of degree of influence/control.<br><br>To simplify it, many believe in the Illuminati model, where a single, small group exerts massive influence over all aspects of the entertainment industry, micromanaging it to the point where Disney's "Chicken Little" is deliberately crafted to create obedient soldiers of the NWO.<br><br>That's too simplistic and not supported by evidence. The real world is much messier and chaotic. A large number of factors influence the media decision makers -- money-making being the predominant influence. But political pressure, cronyism, cultural influences, and much more go into the mix. There is abundant evidence to support a large number of influences on programming, but little evidence to support the type of omnipotent, all-controlling force that some people keep insisting runs the mediasphere.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Titan/Titanic/TheCoup etc.

Postby rothbardian » Wed May 10, 2006 2:45 pm

<br><br>Pan-- The problem is that, in actuality, you go far beyond your stated positon (made to DE just now). You declare, for example, the Titan/Titanic thing to be a coincidence, and you state it AS A MATTER OF FACT.<br><br>You're not letting the facts speak. You're stepping in front of the facts (whatever those may be).<br><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>I'm re-posting these comments I had placed at another thread over here (trying to keep the discussion in one location)--</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>I think you have it precisely wrong. You state: "<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Living in an evidence-based world is more difficult than living in an "I think it's so, therefore I believe it's so" world."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>My perception is that YOU are the one who (for example) "thinks" there is no connection between the Titan story and the Titanic sinking...and therefore you "believe it is so". But you offer no "evidence" for your belief.<br><br>Meanwhile, without getting into any evidence and simply looking at the BIG Picture of how this world works....based on previous precedents, there would seem to be as much chance of a Titan/Titanic connection...as not. Wasn't there money to be made in the building AND sinking of the Titanic? <br><br>Look at how the Mafia has worked in the past--- Some guy puts out his life savings to build a restaurant and the Mafia makes money by forcing him to use their construction workers. After the restaurant is up and running, the Mafia muscles in on the operation and takes ownership. Later they burn it down and collect the insurance.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby Ike Broflovski » Wed May 10, 2006 2:57 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Some people see it as the band itself blowing up the towers. I see it as the band telling us how someone else is blowing up the towers.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Is the fellow with the fro not in the band? That does appear to be his finger on the button.<br><br>It was symbolic: the towers represented square America, and the Coup wanted to attack the establishment with their subversive album.<br><br>Metaphoric violence in rap is <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>very common</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. One example in which RZA spells it out explicitly:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Cock back my tongue like a hammer <br>my head is like a nickel-plated bammer <br>spit forty-five caliber grammar<br>At the speed of wind makes you bleed within<br>Crack your skull, without penetratin your skin</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br>etc.<br><br>Everyone remembers what the NY skyline used to look like, right? Hundreds of skyscrapers....and way down at one end these BIG HONKING TOWERS twice as tall as any of the others. You couldn't miss them. Anything that larger-than-life in the commercial center of the US automatically became icons of US commercialism. That's why they were chosen for the actual attacks.<br><br>The symbolism is so obvious, I can't understand why anyone would think it's less likely that some rappers wanted to make a provocative album cover than that....someone with foreknowledge of the actual attacks somehow influenced the cover design, or whatever the theory is. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby FourthBase » Wed May 10, 2006 3:02 pm

I hear you, but I think there's more to the cover than that. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Titan/Titanic/TheCoup etc.

Postby Dreams End » Wed May 10, 2006 3:04 pm

I have an admission to make. I saw Chicken Little with my nephews, sister and mom. There really IS something wrong with that film. It was really creepy. I didn't even want to post about it...and making a creepy film won't recruit anybody for anything so I don't know what was up, but I was disturbed by it...I think mainly be the content that I didn't think was appropriate for little kids.<br><br>As to how orchestrated, I think sometimes things are orchestrated pretty broadly...but I can't prove it. And that's really what I hate about "Illuminati" theory...anything and everything gets that label with zero proof. <br><br>But I think the FMSF is a good example. If you accept that the founders were CIA mind control specialists and abusive parents and you see how vast an impact that little group (funding sources unreported) has had on the media and on therapy even (if one more therapist tells me they "don't deal with memories" I may slap them...they are there...deal with them) I don't think there's any other conclusion but that there's a pretty well coordinated effort toward controlling perception. And I don't accept the FMSF has been a corrective against some practices which were unwise. Correct those practices if that's the issue. They have completely and totall distorted the field in a way that completely ignores the vast majority of scientific evidence (I'm talking about all the studies which show the accuracy of re-emerging memories following periods of amnesia to those memories.) there are many, many studies...and they now go beyond just saying, "Yes, traumatic memories are often lost in periods of amnesia" into sophisticated speculation and experiments about HOW exactly this happens. <br><br>So, I really hate reductionist Illuminati theories but I think we should be open to large scale, coordinated propaganda efforts. Surprised Hugh hasn't weighed in here...but if he does I'd ask him to relink to the William Donovan stuff about sophisticated psyops/propaganda from back when we were the "good guys." Think they stopped working on their technique 60 years ago? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby dude h homeslice ix » Wed May 10, 2006 3:04 pm

Remember the album cover to Bad Brains first album? Lightning striking the White House. Then the Exploited had their album "Live from the White House," showing a capital building in ruins if i recall (its been 10 years).<br><br>The metaphorical violence is part of other types of resistance music.<br><br>Still, with the band being called "The Coup" with that album cover, it is pretty creepy... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby FourthBase » Wed May 10, 2006 3:08 pm

I hear you, but I think there's more going on than just hyperbolic, symbolic violence of an average rap group. Is his finger actually pressed to the button? What is the device he's holding? Why the conductor sticks? How <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>improbable</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> a coincidence for the explosions to match so closely? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby Ike Broflovski » Wed May 10, 2006 3:36 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>What is the device he's holding?</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Looks to me like the front of a car CD changer, which fits with the symbolism. Play our shit, destroy the Man.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em> Why the conductor sticks?</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>No idea. What do you think?<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>How improbable a coincidence for the explosions to match so closely?</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>I can't estimate a number, but it doesn't seem that remarkable. Demolitions start near the tops of buildings, and explosions at the bottom would look kind of weird.<br><br>I agree that it's creepy, but the foreknowledge scenario doesn't make much sense to me. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby dude h homeslice ix » Wed May 10, 2006 3:46 pm

maybe one mans grand conspiracy is another mans morphogenetic field, hehe.<br><br>sometimes the morphogenetic field idea lends itself to a copout, wouldnt you say? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby professorpan » Wed May 10, 2006 3:47 pm

Let's also not forget the historical fact that the WTC had been attacked by explosives in the past. I find myself surprised by how often that fact is neglected in discussions such as this one.<br><br>That pre-9/11 bombing sheds some light on the "Lone Gunmen writers knew" theory. As a writer, I invent stuff all the time from a collage of images, memories, current events, and musings in my head. Sometimes those scenarios resemble things that happen later in real life. Art is often predictive because it is the product of imagination.<br><br>The 9/11 perpetrators had to envision destroying the towers... why is it so hard to imagine others might not have had the same idea, without being connected to the actual incident? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby Dreams End » Wed May 10, 2006 3:52 pm

Might as well toss this in:<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.cuttingedge.org/Terrorist_nuke.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby FourthBase » Wed May 10, 2006 4:18 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Let's also not forget the historical fact that the WTC had been attacked by explosives in the past. I find myself surprised by how often that fact is neglected in discussions such as this one.<br><br>That pre-9/11 bombing sheds some light on the "Lone Gunmen writers knew" theory. As a writer, I invent stuff all the time from a collage of images, memories, current events, and musings in my head. Sometimes those scenarios resemble things that happen later in real life. Art is often predictive because it is the product of imagination.<br><br>The 9/11 perpetrators had to envision destroying the towers... why is it so hard to imagine others might <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>not</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> have had the same idea, without being connected to the actual incident?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>It's not that hard to imagine. It's just <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>harder</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> to imagine than the idea of gossip tipping someone off directly or indirectly. And again, in the case of the LG pilot...Carter used intel/military consultants. So the possibility of a tipoff is <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>greatly</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> increased there. Until you recognize that the possibility of <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>some</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> form of literal foreknowledge is at least <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>as likely</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> as the possibility of simultaneous inspiration, or if you can somehow statistically prove that you're right, then I'm done with you about this. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby professorpan » Wed May 10, 2006 4:32 pm

Thanks, DE, I'd forgotten about that one.<br><br>Let's not forget about the $20 bill:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml">www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>We can take all the examples of images that resonated (sometimes dramatically) with the WTC attack and come to several different conclusions.<br><br>One -- The Coup, Steve Jackson Games, The Lone Gunmen Pilot, and the creators of the $20 bill were privy to the 9/11 plot and embedded clues in diverse places. (Evidence? None)<br><br>Two -- Some of the above were in on the plot, some are coincidences. (Evidence? None)<br><br>Three -- It's all coincidence, synchronicity, Sheldrakian morphogenic fields, etc. (Some historical evidence)<br><br>Four -- The WTC towers are obvious symbolic targets of Western Capitalism/Imperalism/Consumerism/Whateverism, towering above arguably the most important and influential city on the planet. The idea of terrorists attacking major targets in the U.S. has been on the public radar screen for a decades, and the WTC was attacked by a bomb in 1993. (All assertions supported by evidence)<br><br>The idea that the U.S. government is not to be trusted, and would attack its own citizens to achieve dark aims related to a New World Order, has also been in the public consciousness, particularly in the realm of conspiracy researchers and (in the 90s) right wing militia groups. (Abundant evidence)<br><br>Creative artists (game designer Steve Jackson, rap group The Coup, the writers of the X-Files and Lone Gunmen), with their radar tuned to various conspiracy themes and ideas and current/contemporary history, independently create imagery showing the destruction of an obvious target of terrorists.<br><br>The writers of the Lone Gunmen pilot episode -- creative artists working in the field of conspiracy-themed entertainment -- come up with the idea of a secret cabal flying a remote-controlled plane into the WTC. After 9/11, X-Files and Lone Gunmen producer Frank Spotnitz says:<br><br>"That was such a disturbing thing. It was very upsetting. As I say in the DVD featurette, you write something like that, and you assume that if you can think of it, being a Hollywood writer, then somebody in the government has thought about it already."<br><br>And of course, people in the government *had* thought about it.<br><br>--<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm">www.usatoday.com/news/was...orad_x.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.<br>One of the imagined targets was the World Trade Center. In another exercise, jets performed a mock shootdown over the Atlantic Ocean of a jet supposedly laden with chemical poisons headed toward a target in the United States. In a third scenario, the target was the Pentagon — but that drill was not run after Defense officials said it was unrealistic, NORAD and Defense officials say.<br><br>--<br><br>And one last thing -- whoever you believe destroyed the WTC towers *picked them* for a reason. They were not selected randomly.<br><br>So take your pick of explanations. The obvious choice, supported by evidence, is that the iconic towers have been considered terrorist targets by many people pre-9/11, and, in fact, were bombed only 8 years before 9/11. It's to be expected that images and narratives about an attack on them would be found in art, especially anti-Capitalist or conspiracy-themed art.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby FourthBase » Wed May 10, 2006 4:48 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Three -- It's all coincidence, synchronicity, Sheldrakian morphogenic fields, etc. (<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Some historical evidence</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->)<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>What, are you going to point to previous unrelated coincidences?<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Four -- The WTC towers are obvious symbolic targets of Western Capitalism/Imperalism/Consumerism/Whateverism, towering above arguably the most important and influential city on the planet. The idea of terrorists attacking major targets in the U.S. has been on the public radar screen for a decades, and the WTC was attacked by a bomb in 1993. (<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>All assertions supported by evidence</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->)<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>All assertions that no one had argued.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The idea that the U.S. government is not to be trusted, and would attack its own citizens to achieve dark aims related to a New World Order, has also been in the public consciousness, particularly in the realm of conspiracy researchers and (in the 90s) right wing militia groups. (<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Abundant evidence</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->)<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Again, who had disputed that?<br><br>Yup, we're done.<br>I suggest everyone ignore Pan. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fourthbase>FourthBase</A> at: 5/10/06 2:55 pm<br></i>
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Re: The Coup

Postby professorpan » Wed May 10, 2006 4:52 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It's not that hard to imagine. It's just harder to imagine than the idea of gossip tipping someone off directly or indirectly. And again, in the case of the LG pilot...Carter used intel/military consultants. So the possibility of a tipoff is greatly increased there. Until you recognize that the possibility of some form of literal foreknowledge is at least as likely as the possibility of simultaneous inspiration, or if you can somehow statistically prove that you're right, then I'm done with you about this.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>It's easy to retreat when you can't supply a single fact to support your speculation, isn't it?<br><br>If you are correct, then:<br><br>1. Military people working with Chris Carter's team knew abou the upcoming 9/11 attacks and decided to reveal the plans. Or those military leakers instructed/coerced Carter's team to reveal the plans. Or they were renegades and decided to let the truth get out, and decided to do so through a TV show. Or they wanted to cleverly plant a ruse to stymie future investigations by leaking it to the creative team.<br><br>2. Chris Carter and his writers, or at least *some* of the creative team, are either: afraid to talk about their advance knowledge; complicit with their military tipsters, and therefore complicit in the deaths of over two thousand people; all complete liars when they say (repeatedly) that they simply thought up the plot for the episode.<br><br>And I keep hearing that Chris Carter used military consultants, but I've yet to see any proof of that -- anyone got specifics? And even if he did use military consultants, so fucking what? That's hardly evidence that the military was influencing the content of the show. He might have wanted his sequences featuring military uniforms, dialogue, and equipment to be accurate. If you ever watched the show, the military is frequently portrayed as aligned with aliens and shadowy cabals, after all.<br><br>Sorry, but your reasoning is flimsy. It makes for great speculation, but there isn't a shred of evidence for it, and it is contradicted by mounds of evidence to the contrary.<br><br>You can be done with me if you like, but have you presented anything other than opinion and speculation? <p></p><i></i>
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