Trailer for "The Fountain"

by **Sepka** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:48 am

starroute said: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Abstract art -- like the nonsense lyrics of 50's rock 'n' roll -- is born in part out of the inability to speak of what is forbidden. It also suggests something I've been coming to suspect just recently -- that World War II, rather than representing the triumph of democracy, actually marked the onset of the conservative counterrevolution that has dominated the US for the last 60 years and the suppression of the genuinely alternative and revolutionary social ideas of the 30's.<hr></blockquote> I didn't want a comment like that to just be left hanging with no reply, but neither do I have a ready reply. It's certainly something to think about. And Orz, Moddey, Starroute and anyone I've missed - you people would be fascinating to go to an art museum with. -Sepka the Space Weasel

by **professorpan** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:25 am

Interesting, but still a far cry from "proof" of your hijacking theory. Schroeder isn't the first businessman to use strategies from Machiavelli and Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War" has been a perennial favorite of corporate types. Proof, Hugh. Either pony up, or admit you are theorizing.

by **AlanStrangis** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:53 am

To get back on topic, I'll be going to see it. I loved both of Aranofsky's other movies... (I'm sure I'm not the only fan of "Pi" here at RI), and Clint Mansell is one of the best composers working in film right now. FWIW, Clint Mansell used to be the front man for the late great band Pop Will Eat Itself, a 21st century post-culture mashup that was about 15 years ahead of it's time.

by **orz** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:39 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I loved both of Aranofsky's other movies... (I'm sure I'm not the only fan of "Pi" here at RI),<hr></blockquote> Both!?! Take it you weren't a fan of 'Batman Begins' then? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> Pi is indeed good... was blown away when it came out...apart from anythign else i was pretty astonished at that time to hear drum & bass on a movie soundtrack!! it is a bit of a Tsukamoto fan-film tho,,, Hugh, interesting you produce your paperclip thing as your best example of 'proof' of your theories; i can't speak for others here but personally I thought it one of your most tenuous examples yet, despite the interestingly right-wing/government connections of the people involved. WOW!!! i just thought; what about that talking paperclip thing that used to give you hints in Microsoft Word!?!?!!?!?! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil">

by **Quentin Quire** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:16 am

'Batman Begins' was directed by Christopher Nolan. You're confusing it with his abortive 'Batman: Year One' film.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:53 am

Yeah, right. Schroeder is just your average businessman. Did you really just write that? After looking at his resume? Perhaps you didn't notice that he is only described as a "journalist" in all the heart-warming how-this-came-about PR narrative for the Children's Holocaust Memorial. A "journalist." That is a bald faced lie. He is an expensive strategist. Very different from a "journalist." And Bob Johnson sits on the executive board of the White House's Christmas pagaent organization which puts on a Norman Rockwell-like show ala Leni Reifenstahl's 'Triumph of the Will' only with just the opposite tactic- showing the White House as virtuous, nurturing, and multicultural instead of what it reallyy is: criminal, destructive, and downright fascist. And you accuse me of wild assertions and continue hounding me for some date-stamped so-called "proof"? How's this: "This word or phrase hijacking that takes advantage of the tendency called 'mutual exclusivity' of people, especially kids, to retain the first definition of a word they run into is, given the long history of the US government's use of white propaganda, almost certainly a decoy to continue to hide the US-Nazi history that is very different from the whitewashed one taught in schools and shown on the History Channel. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

by **AlanStrangis** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:51 am

Like Quentin said. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> BTW, I would have LOVED to have seen a faithful adaptation of "Batman: Year One". I can see the comparisons to Tsukamoto. When I first saw Tetsuo: The Iron Man I was blown away. After popping over to IMDb, I realize I should really be hitting the video store, as I haven't seen anything of Tsukamoto's since the mid 90's. On the soundtrack of Pi: I was blown away by the soundtrack as well. I wasn't paying enough attention to the credits, so it wasn't until after a freelance sound post who I work with from time to time came in and gushed about it that I clued in. It's the first time I think I head a film composer make use of the full surround in the original score. I'm glad I caught it at a bigger theatre (during it's brief time there), as opposed to in a rep cinema (most of which seem to be going the way of the do-do here in Toronto).

by **professorpan** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:00 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>And you accuse me of wild assertions and continue hounding me for some date-stamped so-called "proof"?<hr></blockquote> Insinuation and guilt by association are not proof, my good man. So far, I've seen not a shred of actual evidence to support your theory. Not. One. Piece. Of. Proof.

by **Attack Ships on Fire** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:33 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Insinuation and guilt by association are not proof, my good man. So far, I've seen not a shred of actual evidence to support your theory.<hr></blockquote> I dunno about that, Pan. The only way to explain why Hollywood keeps making films starring Rob Schneider in them is by the existence of a shadowy cabal of NWOers pulling the strings behind the curtain. The big question that all of us should be asking is: just what sinister agenda does Rob Schneider have planned for all of us when the one world government is unveiled? We're through the looking glass here, people.

by **starroute** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:39 pm

Can we try for a little rational middle ground here? Yes, word and phrase hijacking does exist. I've seen some very plausible examples pointed out with respect to current issues. But "Project Paperclip" is not exactly a hot current issue. It's not the only or even the most prominent example of US-Nazi collusion after World War II. It's a phrase that few Americans are ever going to hear or be influenced by. On the other side of the ledger, "The Paperclip Project" is also not exactly a hot item. I'd say the chance that some innocent eight year old is going to permanently be imbued with positive thoughs involving paperclips and holocaust victims, to the point of growing up to be an adult who looks benignly on stories about Nazi scientists being smuggled into the US and is therefore unable to acknowledge fascist elements in US history, has got to be approximately zero. I'm reminded in all this of a book I read some years ago by someone who had made an obsessive study of subliminal sexual images in advertising -- starting out with obvious phallic imagery in things like the grill of the Ford Edsel and winding up by claiming that any time he could find squiggles that looked like the letters "S" and "X" in drawings of ice cubes in whiskey ads it was a hidden appeal to the disordered fantasies of alcoholics. Or something. At any rate, my point is that when it comes to propaganda and manipulation of perceptions, it's undeniable that these sorts of techniques exist. But it's also a pretty sure bet that any time you push your claims of their use beyond the point where, say, the half-bright average high school student would endorse your conclusions, you're almost certainly off track. The bottom line is that any subliminal appeal that's so subtle you can't find it without a magnifying glass probably isn't really there at all. So in that sense, I don't think Hugh is exactly wrong, but I do think he's gone way overboard. I also think that focuing on titles to the exclusion of content is a blind alley. Written words and letters just don't connect up with the subconscious the way archetypal images and sounds do. There may be a few examples of manipulation using movie titles -- one possibility that comes to mind is "Independence Day," which served to reassociate the idea of the 4th of July with alien menaces and blowing up shit instead of hot dogs and three-legged races. But that sort of technique can work only on phrases which already have a deep emotional resonance there to hijack, of which there aren't many. Besides, it's not like there haven't been enough goddamn militaristic, macho, jingoistic, US supremacist, essentially fascist movies around during the last 20 years or so. Why look for subtle manipulations in the frigging titles when the thing itself is right there on the screen? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=starroute>starroute</A> at: 7/27/06 3:41 pm

by **orz** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:12 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>'Batman Begins' was directed by Christopher Nolan. You're confusing it with his abortive 'Batman: Year One' film.<hr></blockquote> DOh!!! man what am I talking about... yeah totally correct... sorry i had a complete brain meltdown therE! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I can see the comparisons to Tsukamoto. When I first saw Tetsuo: The Iron Man I was blown away. After popping over to IMDb, I realize I should really be hitting the video store, as I haven't seen anything of Tsukamoto's since the mid 90's. <hr></blockquote> yeah, I even read in an interview that he was mainly inspired to make the film by seeing Tokyo Fist at a film festival... and the brain-poking subway station sequence is an obvious tetsuo homage... You definitely should check out Tsukamoto's other work... all amazing with the possibel exception of "Hiruko the Goblin" which is more of a mainstream teen horror thing but still fun... his more recent works are more 'mature' than tetsuo and less 'horror' but still totally incredible. "Bullet Ballet" really grows on me for some reason... Apparently he's still plannng Tetsuo III which I can't wait for... was rumours that it would be tarantino-produced flying tetstuo VS america buyt now I apparently it's gonna be in Japan but with american actor somehow involved... I recently read a book about him, and learned that apparently, and completely bizzarely, he's one of the most prolific voiceover artists for adverts in Japan...! So if you see like some whisky ad or something his calming tones are over it... meanwhile he's making totally deranged and pure cinema...

by **orz** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:14 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Besides, it's not like there haven't been enough goddamn militaristic, macho, jingoistic, US supremacist, essentially fascist movies around during the last 20 years or so. Why look for subtle manipulations in the frigging titles when the thing itself is right there on the screen?<hr></blockquote> my sentiment exactly... why bother making up imaginary propaganda when there's so much of the real stufff so clearly evident?

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:17 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>But "Project Paperclip" is not exactly a hot current issue.<hr></blockquote> Two more years of W in office and tying the name Bush to Hitler is indeed a hot current issue. As in, keep it out of the minds of the masses or at very least the harcore indoctrinated Fox viewers. The White House is losing ground and wants to slow its descent. Even the Anti-defamation League is denying that Prescott Bush financed the Nazis right on its own website! Not only that, Uncle Sam's white hat is mostly based on WWII. That is the most important narrative to preserve for future wars. Why? Because Hitler is the 20th century military-industrial-media incarnation of THE DEVIL and his name is used as a superlative for exactly that reason. All war is sold as religious war, that is, a moral response to Evil and thus the right thing to do. And that requires having a DEVIL as a foil to make American bombs units of Virtue. I think it was a Soviet dissident who said something like this about his countrymen- "To do evil, one must first be made to believe that one is doing good." <blockquote>Quote:<hr>On the other side of the ledger, "The Paperclip Project" is also not exactly a hot item. I'd say the chance that some innocent eight year old is going to permanently be imbued with positive thoughs involving paperclips and holocaust victims, to the point of growing up to be an adult who looks benignly on stories about Nazi scientists being smuggled into the US and is therefore unable to acknowledge fascist elements in US history, has got to be approximately zero.<hr></blockquote> The Children's Holocaust Memorial with its feature documentary, book sold on Amazon, and a classroom teaching package releasing in August 2006 for 6-12 graders is becoming a "hot item." Or atleast there is an effort to make it so. Why? Once kids (and many adults) get a name in their heads a first time that definition supercedes variations that might follow. Child psychologists call this 'mutual exclusivity,' a way to name the world for clarity without getting too many variations. THAT"S the psycho-linguistic reason for name hijacking and decoys. Like 'Patriot Act.' <blockquote>Quote:<hr> But it's also a pretty sure bet that any time you push your claims of their use beyond the point where, say, the half-bright average high school student would endorse your conclusions, you're almost certainly off track.<hr></blockquote> Exactly wrong. See above for 'mutual exclusivity.' Plus a total immersion in subtle cues that add up without our realizing it to create a seemingly organic normative experience is EXACTLY the most effective tool of manipulation. Changing a person without them realizing it or resisting is a very effective tactic. Advertising lingo calls this 'nesting' an idea in a 'shell.' The shell is the obvious vehicle and included are the little mind viruses that you don't notice and resist thereby allowing them into the subconscious with no resistance. Example: Seeing a KKK rally makes you think "ugly hateful racists" but seeing black cannibals as the bad guys and negative roles for women in Disney's 'Pirates of the Caribbean' gets past most people without any protest. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Besides, it's not like there haven't been enough goddamn militaristic, macho, jingoistic, US supremacist, essentially fascist movies around during the last 20 years or so. <hr></blockquote> A wall-to-wall catalog of mind viruses generated deliberately since the 1951 Psychological Strategy Board was mandated to affect the American mind is what you just described. There were crappy films like 'Birth of a Nation' before but the value of putting out crappy films was realized during WWII (Why We Fight and more folksy fare for civilians) and institutionalized. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Why look for subtle manipulations in the frigging titles when the thing itself is right there on the screen?<hr></blockquote> Why look at titles? Because MOST people do and don't actually see the film! The title is a 'unit of meaning' much like a billboard or bumbersticker. The big exposure numbers are at that marketing level and this is not a throw away resource. Plus the consumption of the movie or book must be reinforced for the more intense propaganda effect for the few who actually get the full dose. Here. Let me trigger some images, values, and implied behavior in your mind without even showing you a movie: "Star Wars." Ok, now what catch phrase comes to mind? And what sanctioned behavior is implied? And since so many Americans grow up on TV and movies, they are a whole experiencial database to re-trigger later in adulthood as I just did by writing 'Star Wars.' Now I'll do it again. 'Star Trek.' What phrase (or two) comes to mind and what are the sanctioned behaviors? See? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 7/27/06 4:26 pm

by **Dreams End** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:37 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Now I'll do it again. 'Star Trek.' What phrase (or two) comes to mind <hr></blockquote> "To boldly go where no man (one) has gone before..." <blockquote>Quote:<hr>and what are the sanctioned behaviors?<hr></blockquote> splitting infinitives... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 7/27/06 4:48 pm

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:59 pm

Thanks. I say, "split infinitives, not personalities." The short answer about perception management is that all messages have an effect whether a lifetime of grains of sand or a few timely boulders to the psyche. So whether a message is obvious like Top Gun or more subliminal like Chicken Little it all adds up. The Pentagon and its corporate henchman NEED soldiers and a population that accepts capitalism as a meritocracy, that is, a moral way to assign resources. And that means all things violent and competitive or "male" are sacred and everything else must be discredited. Hence Disney's model of 'Pirates' for males as (ad)-venture capitalism. There are thousands of shell narratives in which to nest that mind virus. Thousands. People inundate Hollywood and publishers with their versions of this formula hoping to get a piece of the action thus creating a plausibly deniable source of what the Pentagon calls 'force magnification' or getting the locals to help you occupy their own countrymen...and women. "Fascism is a male dominance cult." Because it works. Mostly. Until people see the scam and resist with cooperative nurturing narratives to undo the psychic damage and provide an alternative. Hello.

Trailer for "The Fountain"

Re: art without a theme

Proof escapes Hugh

Re: Trailer for "The Fountain"

zz

Off-topic correction ...

Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Re: zz

Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

oops

wfg

Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Re: DE's help with syntax.

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