Trailer for "The Fountain"

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Re: DE asks what is sanctioned by "to boldly go"

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:03 pm

...and don't forget "live long and <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>prosper.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->"<br><br>I wrote my previous post while you were editing in your question but it looks like I wrote the answer while you were adding the question..<br><br>Did I answer it? I think so. What do you think, DE? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: DE asks what is sanctioned by "to boldly go"

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:17 pm

And for 'Star Wars' the catch phrase is May the <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Force</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Be With You.<br><br>Everyone knows that.<br><br>Re-militarizing the American people through children has been job #1 for the media since the first Vietnam Syndrome set in.<br><br>Now we have Vietnam Syndrome II and animation for kids coming out like 'The Ant Bully.'<br><br>Ya know, always gotta have war cuz people are just like that, right?<br>Nope. But try to convince people we are really peaceful after 100 years of propaganda theater pulling off the old Charlie Brown vs Lucy prank of lies and false flag ops. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Postby Attack Ships on Fire » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:27 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>See?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Actually Hugh, do you?<br><br>While I find you one of the more interesting posters on RigInt, I'm really starting to believe that you are of a one-track mind. It's no secret that the Pentagon and the government can benefit from mainstream films, and that they have used subtle and outright manipulation to do so in the past, but not with all films. However, my main point of this thread was to let people know of a film that has plot points that are regularly spoken of by RigInt readers/posters, and are often not brought up by other Hollywood films. These subjects include: syncronicity, fate vs. free will, reincarnation and whether there is a God.<br><br>What you did was ride in here and grab one image from the film and twist it to fit your paradigm that all films are subject to some secret agenda of meme corruption. You isolated one image of the main character being hoisted up by the Aztecs and used it to push your agenda that it's representative of "male dominance as a costume drama" against "evil savages" for "protecting weaker women".<br><br>Did you even watch the trailer in full? Did you do any research as to what the story of "The Fountain" is supposed to be about? Why did you choose to grab that one specific image to propogate your agenda when, in fact, "The Fountain" trailer contains dozens of other images that are as far away from "male dominance" as you could get? In short, why are you a broken record on this subject when you offer no proof of conspiracy, no evidence that all movie studios are in collusion with a cabal, no statements from filmmakers or screenwriters or producers talking about how their stories have been tinkered with to promote agendas that weren't their own?<br><br>I know quite a bit about this movie. I've read the script, I've followed it through the process of getting made, I'm aware of the battles the filmmakers had with getting it made. If you think you know more than me about the reasoning behind the making of "The Fountain", I invite you to a debate. You present your facts of an agenda behind this film to push memes of control, of male dominance, of subserviant women, of violent control over native peoples. Here's your chance to back up your claims with hard evidence. Are you game?<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Postby 4911 » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:58 pm

"Schroeder isn't the first businessman to use strategies from Machiavelli and Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War" has been a perennial favorite of corporate types."<br><br><br>i heard thats taught in japanese business schools - they all have to read it. Incidentally, so is "The Book of 5 Rings" which is a lot worse. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 7/27/06 5:59 pm<br></i>
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Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Postby professorpan » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:01 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Here's your chance to back up your claims with hard evidence. Are you game?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Good luck.<br><br>I knew a guy who used to believe rock and roll was a Satanic plot to corrupt Christians and turn the youth of America into devil worshippers. He spent a lot of time poring through song lyrics, album cover art, and playing records backwards looking for subliminal Satanic messages. And he found them. Lots of them.<br><br>Yep.<br><br>I really don't enjoy my current role as Randi to Hugh's spoon-bending Geller. It's tiresome, draws my attention away from really important issues and from my own material, and I feel like I'm turning into a one-note wonder myself (which makes me somewhat ill). I do enjoy his brand of contextual analysis, but his insistence that it's absolute, set-in-stone truth -- and inability to question his own theories or enter into a constructive debate -- prevents any real, in-depth, constructive discussion. <br><br>And as a creative artist, it irks me to see all popular entertainment -- books, music, and movies -- reduced to a gargantuan, micromanaged CIA plot against hypnotized, Pavlovian idiots (i.e. everyone except for HMW, that is).<br><br>So I'm done. I've said my piece. I will no longer nip at the heels of the Manatee, demand scraps of proof, or put forth counterarguments to the two words I could go the rest of my life without hearing again (the letters "k" and "h" figure prominently).<br><br>Au revoir, Mr. Manatee. I admire your tenacity and your intelligence, and I wish you luck in finding the truth.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Postby Dreams End » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:19 am

Pan...<br><br>Manatees don't have heels. I'm pretty sure of that. <p></p><i></i>
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Honestly...

Postby Sepka » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:25 am

Honestly... If the government were so powerful and capable that they could orchestrate the direction that popular entertainment took, right down to specifying the names and content of movies and TV shows, then why would they even bother? Once your control mechanisms are that complete and all-encompassing, what's the point of the charade?<br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Postby professorpan » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:35 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Manatees don't have heels. I'm pretty sure of that.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>D'oh! <br><br>One of the highlights of a trip I took to Belize was a manatee tour in a mangrove swamp. Such peaceful, magnificent creatures. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Any analysis escapes Prof P unless a note from Goebbels

Postby professorpan » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:56 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'm reminded in all this of a book I read some years ago by someone who had made an obsessive study of subliminal sexual images in advertising -- starting out with obvious phallic imagery in things like the grill of the Ford Edsel and winding up by claiming that any time he could find squiggles that looked like the letters "S" and "X" in drawings of ice cubes in whiskey ads it was a hidden appeal to the disordered fantasies of alcoholics.<br><br>Or something.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>The books were <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Subliminal Seduction, Media Sexploitation,</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> and (possibly one of the best titles of all time, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Clam Plate Orgy</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, all by Wilson Bryan Key.<br><br>Though he began seeing embedded sexes in everything (including Ritz crackers!), he did uncover and popularize the very real practice of embedding sexual and violent images in print advertisements. I have a pretty large collection of very blatant examples. After I read Subliminal Seduction as a kid, I immediately went looking to see if I could find some examples. I grabbed a Rolling Stone, and found a very clear SEX painted into the curls of Robert DeNiro's hair in a poster for the film Raging Bull. It's easier to see in the print example (which is pretty large) than this web image, but see if you can find it:<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://student.math.hr/~sika/raging_bull.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>Once you see it, it stands out like a blinking neon sign. There are actually at least two examples of SEX, but one is impossible to miss (hint: look around his ear).<br><br>If I can dig up my files I'll scan and post some of the better examples. While Key went overboard at times, he did open my eyes to the practice. And while I'm unsure how successful subliminal ads are/were, sexual and death/violent imagery were certainly used by ad agencies to sell products. And some examples were probably artists having fun, seeing what they could get away with.<br><br>I think the practice has either gotten more clever and hard to detect, or it was abandoned, because the blatant examples have disappeared. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=professorpan>professorpan</A> at: 7/28/06 7:59 am<br></i>
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Re: Attack ships on fire's comments on 'Fountain' themes

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:00 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>These subjects include: syncronicity, fate vs. free will, reincarnation and whether there is a God.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Those subjects go directly to the goal of steering people towards 'mystery' and away from 'history.' Especially while selling an oil war as a religious war.<br><br>You know, the War on Science that goes back to Galileo and the Scopes Trial and Global Warming and...<br><br>I study the mechanics of cults because the government's spychiatrist community (called "bisquit teams" down in Gitmo for "behavioral science consulting team") use pretty much the same mechanics to run Cult America.<br><br>Read Douglas Rushkoff's 1999 book 'Coercion: Why We Listen to What "They" Say.'<br><br>Using his career in advertising as a background he lines out exactly the psychological manipulations common to CIA interrogators and corporate-researched salesmanship. They apply to governance as well although few are willing to say so outloud.<br><br>How many authors compare the CIA's Kubark interrogation manual to Dale Carnegie? Lots to learn here.<br><br>Rushkoff lost a girlfriend to a cult and examined the cult phenomenon in depth even though no publisher would touch that subject for a book. But he shows the same spychiatrist tactics of cults on pages 214-221 and they are recognizable in corporate-CFR-CIA media.<br><br>I'm not typing in all 8 pages of '21 traits of a cult' (plenty like that online with a simple search) but this is appropriate to the subject of the role of 'mystery' in a psychic dictatorship trying to sell a war as 'religious'-<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>#4- Divine Coincidence<br>New members must learn of the cult effortlessly, as if by grace. Though membership and advancement should be difficult, discovery must be extremely easy. New members might find a flyer on the subway, a small advertisement in the local paper, or be greeted spontaneously by a devotee on the street. Members often describe how a sacred text literally "fell" off a bookshelf in a store, or how a magazine miraculously opened to a page with an advertisement for the cult.<br><br>If the member believes he came to the cult through <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>conscious or rational processes, then he is in a position to take responsibility and credit for his participation. Cults try to avoid this perception because a member should be seperated from his sense of willpower in order to be fully indoctrinated.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">This is how the normalization of 'mystery and awe' functions to neutralize the informed citizen as if by 'shock and awe.'</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--><br>The media loads our brains up with the equivalent of <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>intellectual cluster bombs meant to prevent thought and divert it harmlessly just in case it happens.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Read Daniel Elsberg's 1972 book 'Papers On the War.' Elsberg includes a speech he made in Boston in on May 23, 1971 where many survivors of the Holocaust were in attendance.<br><br>Elsberg quotes Nazi-enabler Albert Speer from his own book 'Inside the Third Reich' on how the fascist virus grew by <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>habituating people away from thinking critically at all.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Here is Speer beating his breast with a mea culpa but notice what he says about the system of preventing moral resistance from ever even coming up-<br><br>p.275-276<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>...Not to have tried to see through the whole apparatus of mystification-was already criminal. At this initial stage my guilt was as grave as, at the end, my work for Hitler. For being in a position to know and nevertheless shunning knowledge creates direct responsibility for the consequences-from the very beginning.<br><br>...In the final analysis I myself determined the degree of my isolation, the extremity of my evasions, and the extent of my ignorance...Whether I knkew or did not know, or how much or how little I knew, is totally unimportant when I consider what horrors I ought to have known about and what conclusions would have been natural ones to draw from the little I did know. Those who ask me are fundamentally expecting me to offer justifications. But I have none. No apologies are possible.<br><br>The ordinary party member was being tought that grand policy was much too complex for him to judge it. Consequently, one felt one was being represented, never called upon to take personal responsibility. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The whole structure of the system was aimed at preventing conflicts of conscience fron even arising.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Shutting off rational critical thinking by tying our intellectual shoe-laces together with meaningless expressions like 'Support Our Troops' is a form of MindWar using linguistics. <br><br>Those ribbons are also what sales people use to obtain an unwitting committment to a larger sale. Once any form of committment is made, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant, the buyer adapts to support that first step and is down the slippery slope. This is how most of the US prisoners during the Korean War became complicit with theh enemy during captivity, tiny step by tiny step. And some even admitted that the US was dropping bioweapons so the movie 'The Manchurian Candidate' was used to suggest they were 100% controlled by mysterious evil commies.<br><br>The mechanics of manipulation using cultural themes through images and linguistics is much the same no matter the venue.<br><br>Check out how this MindWar is done in one of W's State of the Union speeches as analyzed by Renana Brooks below. What she illustrates is the use of the DRTC formula that CIA interrogations and hand-to-hand corporate sales techniques exploit-<br>Dissociation<br>Regression<br>Transferrence<br>Compliance<br><br>This is a fancy way to say "rattle you into submission with fear and make you desperate for help from Daddy so you do what Daddy says."<br><br>This formula is the goal of the standardized tactics to break the human will as codified after the Korean War because of the US prisoner complicity by Air Force spychiatrist Alfred Biderman in Biderman's Chart of Coercion-<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.actabuse.com/chartofcoercion.html">www.actabuse.com/chartofcoercion.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Now see those MindWar principles in action in Dr. Brooks' analysis of W's speech-<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/130534_focusecond13.html">seattlepi.nwsource.com/op...ond13.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sunday, July 13, 2003<br><br>P-I Focus: <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Power of presidency resides in language as well as law</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>By RENANA BROOKS<br>CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST<br><br>George W. Bush is generally regarded as a mangler of the English language.<br><br>What is overlooked is his mastery of emotional language -- especially negatively charged emotional language -- as a political tool. Take a closer look at his speeches and public utterances and his political success turns out to be no surprise. It is the predictable result of the intentional use of language to dominate others.<br><br>Bush, like many dominant personality types, uses dependency-creating language. He employs language of contempt and intimidation to shame others into submission and desperate admiration.<br><br>While we tend to think of the dominator as using physical force, in fact most dominators use verbal abuse to control others. Abusive language has been a major theme of psychological researchers on marital problems, such as John Gottman, and of philosophers and theologians, such as Josef Pieper.<br><br>But little has been said about the key role it has come to play in political discourse and in such "hot media" as talk radio and television.<br><br>Bush uses several dominating linguistic techniques to induce surrender to his will. The first is empty language. This term refers to broad statements that are so abstract and mean so little that they are virtually impossible to oppose. Empty language is the emotional equivalent of empty calories.<br><br>Just as we seldom question the content of potato chips while enjoying their pleasurable taste, recipients of empty language are usually distracted from examining the content of what they are hearing. Dominators use empty language to conceal faulty generalizations; to ridicule viable alternatives; to attribute negative motivations to others, thus making them appear contemptible; and to rename and "reframe" opposing viewpoints.<br><br>Bush's 2003 State of the Union speech contained 39 examples of empty language. He used it to reduce complex problems to images that left the listener relieved that George W. Bush was in charge. Rather than explaining the relationship between malpractice insurance and skyrocketing health care costs, Bush summed up: "No one has ever been healed by a frivolous lawsuit." The multiple fiscal and monetary policy tools that can be used to stimulate an economy were downsized to: "The best and fairest way to make sure Americans have that money is not to tax it away in the first place." The controversial plan to wage another war on Iraq was simplified to: "We will answer every danger and every enemy that threatens the American people." In an earlier study, I found that in the 2000 presidential debates Bush used at least four times as many phrases containing empty language as Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush Senior or Gore had used in their debates.<br><br>Another of Bush's dominant-language techniques is personalization. By personalization I mean localizing the attention of the listener on the speaker's personality. Bush projects himself as the only person capable of producing results. In his post-9/11 speech to Congress he said, "I will not forget this wound to our country or those who inflicted it. I will not yield; I will not rest; I will not relent in waging this struggle for freedom and security for the American people." He substitutes his determination for that of the nation's. In the 2003 State of the Union speech he vowed, "I will defend the freedom and security of the American people." Contrast Bush's "I will not yield" etc. with John F. Kennedy's "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."<br><br>The word "you" rarely appears in Bush's speeches. Instead, there are numerous statements referring to himself or his personal characteristics of folksiness, confidence, righteous anger or determination as the answer to the problems of the country. Even when Bush uses "we," as he did many times in the State of the Union speech, he does it in a way that focuses attention on himself. For example, he stated: "Once again, we are called to defend the safety of our people, and the hopes of all mankind. And we accept this responsibility."<br><br>In the Jan. 16 New York Review of Books, Joan Didion highlighted Bush's high degree of personalization and contempt for argumentation in presenting his case for going to war in Iraq. As Didion writes: " 'I made up my mind,' he had said in April, 'that Saddam needs to go.' This was one of many curious, almost petulant statements offered in lieu of actually presenting a case. I've made up my mind, I've said in speech after speech, I've made myself clear. The repeated statements became their own reason."<br><br>Poll after poll demonstrates that Bush's political agenda is out of step with most Americans' core beliefs. Yet the public, their electoral resistance broken down by empty language and persuaded by personalization, is susceptible to Bush's most frequently used linguistic technique: negative framework. A negative framework is a pessimistic image of the world. Bush creates and maintains negative frameworks in his listeners' minds with a number of linguistic techniques borrowed from advertising and hypnosis to instill the image of a dark and evil world around us.<br><br>Catastrophic words and phrases are repeatedly drilled into the listener's head until the opposition feels such a high level of anxiety that it appears pointless to do anything other than cower.<br><br>Psychologist Martin Seligman, in his extensive studies of "learned helplessness," showed that people's motivation to respond to outside threats and problems is undermined by a belief that they have no control over their environment. Learned helplessness is exacerbated by beliefs that problems caused by negative events are permanent; and when the underlying causes are perceived to apply to many other events, the condition becomes pervasive and paralyzing.<br><br>Bush is a master at inducing learned helplessness in the electorate. He uses pessimistic language that creates fear and disables people from feeling they can solve their problems. In his Sept. 20, 2001, speech to Congress on the 9/11 attacks, he chose to increase people's sense of vulnerability: "Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. ... I ask you to live your lives, and hug your children. I know many citizens have fears tonight. ... Be calm and resolute, even in the face of a continuing threat." (Subsequent terror alerts by the FBI, CIA and Department of Homeland Security have maintained and expanded this fear of unknown, sinister enemies.)<br><br>Contrast this rhetoric with Franklin Roosevelt's speech delivered the day after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. He said: "No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory. ... There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger. With confidence in our armed forces with the unbounding determination of our people we will gain the inevitable triumph so help us God." Roosevelt focuses on an optimistic future rather than an ongoing threat to Americans' personal survival.<br><br>All political leaders must define the present threats and problems faced by the country before describing their approach to a solution, but the ratio of negative to optimistic statements in Bush's speeches and policy declarations is much higher, more pervasive and more long-lasting than that of any other president.<br><br>Let's compare "crisis" speeches by Bush and Ronald Reagan, the president with whom he most identifies himself. In Reagan's Oct. 27, 1983, televised address to the nation on the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, he used 19 images of crisis and 21 images of optimism, evenly balancing optimistic and negative depictions. He limited his evaluation of the problems to the past and present tense, saying only that "with patience and firmness we can bring peace to that strife-torn region and make our own lives more secure."<br><br>Bush's Oct. 7, 2002, major policy speech on Iraq, on the other hand, began with 44 consecutive statements referring to the crisis and citing a multitude of possible catastrophic repercussions. The vast majority of these statements imply that the crisis will last into the indeterminate future. There is also no specific plan of action. The absence of plans is typical of a negative framework, and leaves the listener without hope that the crisis will ever end.<br><br>Contrast this with Reagan, who, a third of the way into his explanation of the crisis in Lebanon, asked the following: "Where do we go from here? What can we do now to help Lebanon gain greater stability so that our Marines can come home? Well, I believe we can take three steps now that will make a difference."<br><br>To create a dependency dynamic between him and the electorate, Bush describes the nation as being in a perpetual state of crisis and then attempts to convince the electorate that it is powerless and that he is the only one with the strength to deal with it. He attempts to persuade people they must transfer power to him, thus crushing the power of the citizen, the Congress, the Democratic Party, even constitutional liberties, to concentrate all power in the imperial presidency and the Republican Party.<br><br>Bush's political opponents are caught in a fantasy that they can win against him simply by proving the superiority of their ideas. However, people do not support Bush for the power of his ideas, but out of the despair and desperation in their hearts. Whenever people are in the grip of a desperate dependency, they won't respond to rational criticisms of the people they are dependent on. They will respond to plausible and forceful statements and alternatives that put the American electorate back in touch with their core optimism. Bush's opponents must combat his dark imagery with hope and restore American vigor and optimism in the coming years. They should heed the example of Reagan, who used optimism against Carter and the "national malaise"; Franklin Roosevelt, who used it against Hoover and the pessimism induced by the Depression ("the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"); and Clinton (the "Man from Hope"), who used positive language against the senior Bush's lack of vision. This is the linguistic prescription for those who wish to retire Bush in 2004.<br><br>Renana Brooks, Ph.D., is a clinical psychologist in Washington, D.C. She heads the Sommet Institute for the Study of Power and Persuasion (www.sommetinstitute.org) and is completing a book on the virtue myth and the conservative culture of domination. Reprinted with permission from the June 30 issue of The Nation.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 7/28/06 11:16 am<br></i>
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Re: Prof Pan's "subliminal" Raging Bull poster is

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:43 pm

Prof Pan wrote-<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And while I'm unsure how successful subliminal ads are/were, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>sexual and death/violent imagery were certainly used by ad agencies to sell products.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> And some examples were probably artists having fun, seeing what they could get away with.<br><br>I think the practice has either gotten more clever and hard to detect, or it was abandoned, because <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>the blatant examples have disappeared.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>You've totally discredited your analytical skills with this one, 'Prof.' Where did you get your diploma, man? Hope you don't have tenure. Perhaps some remedial classes...<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>How can you write that "blatant examples have disappeared" as you put up that sweaty meaty face and title and try to direct people's attention to his hair?!<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Look at the face and the title!</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Not The Magician's Other Hand.<br><br>(Notice you don't have to see the movie to get the message, do you?)<br><br>"Blatant examples have disappeared." Like the one we're staring at?!<br><br>No, they are 'hidden' in plain sight. There's your poster and the message to men is that "Real Men Fight." You know, 'Chicken Little.' Oh, and 'Nacho Libre' wrestling for the orphans as macho moral theater.<br><br>Hey boys, would you rather be a Raging Bull or a Pink Panther?<br><br>When fascism was studied as a mass neurosis after WWII the elements of the Authoritarian Personality were tested for in a 1950 Fascism Receptivity personality test devised to check for nine traits, one them being <br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Power and "Toughness-</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>Preoccupation with the dominance-submission, strong-weak, leader-follower dimension; identification with power figures; overemphasis upon the conventionalized attributes of the ego; <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>exaggerated assertion of strength and toughness.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Check it out yourself-<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm">www.anesi.com/fscale.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Lots more has been learned since those fledgling days but the Authoritarian Personality, religious fundamentalism, and fascism go hand-in-hand and can be seen embodied in the strong Father, Fuhrer, Padre, etc.<br><br>Superman? Uberman? The Godfather? Pirates? NYPD Blue? Men in Black? Mission Impossible VII? Rambo IVX? FOOTBALL? Wrestling? Rodeo? NASCAR?<br><br>Recruiting? What recruiting? lol.<br><br>on edit: LilyPatToo posts below on George Lakoff's work highlighting <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>moral reasoning based on the family template which has divided America between embracing the Strong Father or the Nurturing Parent.<br></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>Strong Father's use punishment and terror to coerce behavior.<br>Nurturing Parents use love expressed as health, education, and housing.<br><br>Gee, which model is fascism and which is We the People's New Deal/Great Society democracy?<br><br>This ability of 'our' government to nurture the people has been negatively framed as 'The Nanny State.' As in, "moral and manly men don't need or accept help because they are big boys now."<br><br>So even our very own mothers are discredited as a way to tap into old childhood frustrations over autonomy and direct them against the nurturing female model in general.<br><br>And that is the other element of 'The Mom-churian Candidate.'<br>Watch both versions of those movies and note the images of women. 'The Devil Wears Prada.' Not my mom! <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 7/28/06 12:17 pm<br></i>
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Re: Attack ships on fire's comments on 'Fountain' themes

Postby LilyPatToo » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:58 pm

That was one dynamite post, Hugh--you've just given me great ammunition for my next couple of political arguments with Conservatives. Are you familiar with Lakoff's work on cognitive framing and the use of language to manipulate? He has a book coming out that will (I hope) be required reading for Progressives --<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/research/lakoff/freedom">"Whose Freedom?"</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Since I still hang out on an alien abductee board (despite having awakened from my own screen memory daze), I watch daily as vulnerable, susceptible people are manipulated by disinformation that is cloaked in seductive mystery and magical thinking-friendly memes. Its allure is nearly irresistable to an audience that feels alienated from (debunking) science. I try in vain to get them to wake up to the many ways that "New Age rhymes with sewage" when it's used to control where they chose to place their attention.<br><br>But it's like talking to Conservatives drunk on $hrub's folksy reassurances--you're peddling something they do NOT want to hear and you're about as welcome as an atheist at a tent revival meeting. But I feel that I have to try....<br><br>LilyPat <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Attack ships on fire's comments on 'Fountain' themes

Postby Dreams End » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:55 pm

I think Hugh is on much firmer ground looking at these big themes and their introduction into the zeitgeist. And I think the idea of New Age thought as being very manipulated to steer people into non-threatening forms of introspection is correct. I think there's more to it than that, but surely that's an element. We've talked about that a lot re: the Nine, Richard Heinberg etc. <br><br>I do not, however, abdicate my right to think about big questions about life, meaning, death, reality, etc. Maybe they won't affect "history"...or maybe they will change history profoundly, but I don't feel a need to justify my interests. We are human...and as humans we question. <br><br>I think Pan's reference to "obvious" was in the more obvious forms of the subliminal imagery...like writing "sex" in hair. Pan would agree that there's lots of obvious propaganda out there...in fact, far more "obvious" than paperclip. Clearly, for example, the new Oliver Stone 9/11 movie is such an example. Why it's Oliver Stone doing it...I have no idea, though I could speculate...but Hugh wouldn't like my speculations so I'll leave that for another time.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Attack ships on fire's comments on 'Fountain' themes

Postby Attack Ships on Fire » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:25 pm

Hugh, if you want to have a discussion on the controlling of minds using popular cinema, that's fine. But I invited you to talk specifics about "The Fountain". You have repeatedly made comments as to how the end product (movies) are being used and manipulated to lull the populace into following an agenda orchestrated by a hidden group of people. What's your examples of this for "The Fountain"?<br><br>Just because a movie brings up subjects that don't have easy, straightforward answers it immediately is part of the sinister agenda to "steer people toward mystery and away from history"? C'mon. There have been numerous mainstream movies made that used historical events in their stories. I'll be the first to admit that Hollywood has an unfortunate tendency to try and doll up a story using violence, action and sex, but the mass audience is still able to get a general gist of an event that may have happened hundreds of years before their birth, and it may inspire them to watch other movies or read books about that event, thereby educating themselves about a facet of history they might not have been aware of.<br><br>Your view is that there is a secret agenda going on that completely controls the popular media, and I simply don't believe it. Otherwise, why would this secret group allow films that question authority and paint unflattering pictures of government, world affairs and other matters when they want people to not question authority?<br><br>And you still haven't addressed my invitation to dissect the production of "The Fountain". Your mentioning of the true reasons for the Iraq war, cults and behavioral science consulting teams would each make for a fascinating discussion but in separate threads; to the best of my knowledge, they have nothing to do with the making of "The Fountain" or the imbedding of memes in its imagery. You're obscuring the discussion with interesting points, but nonetheless points that don't have any relevant merit to the topic we're supposed to be discussing. Is or isn't "The Fountain" a movie made by your secret agenda group?<br><br>Perhaps you would also like to share with us your explanation as to how this secret cabal operates within Hollywood, and how they manage to take screenplays and twist them into forms of thought control.<br><br>I'm not saying that there aren't bad guys out there using these techniques for their own agenda, but I am willing to back up my belief that they aren't controlling the entire realm of motion pictures. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Attack ships on fire's comments on 'Fountain' themes

Postby orz » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:35 pm

I too await this with baited breath.<br><br><br><br>My problem with your theories hugh is not that they're paranoid so much as schizoid: Humanity is removed from the process... films are no longer made by specific artists with differing ideas and emotions, but come from an unknowable machine that is hollywood, where nothing exists that is not mechanically dictated by CIA programming.... the audience are no longer an infinitely diverse population worldwide, but an anonymous, homogenous mass responding to 'programming' and 'keywords'... when you see a movie you don't react to it emotionally and intellectually, emphathise with the characters, admire the beauty of the images etc, but merely passively recieve coded 'mind viruses'...<br><br>There is certainly a lot of basis to a lot of what you say but the way you frame it makes me feel kind of ill. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :x --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/sick.gif ALT=":x"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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