About calling posters "disinfo agents":

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About calling posters "disinfo agents":

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:55 am

don't.<br><br>Please consider that contrary opinions are most likely just that, and that hollow accusations are indistinguishable from disinformation itself, and often even more effective at sowing disharmony. <br><br>If you have reason to suspect someone is a "disinfo agent," IM them to me. If not, please respect the fact that free thinkers will not always think in accord. <br><br>I've amended the posting regulations to reflect this. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rigorousintuition>Rigorous Intuition</A> at: 10/13/05 8:57 am<br></i>
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Re: About calling posters "disinfo agents":

Postby professorpan » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:00 pm

Thanks, Jeff. Having been tarred with that label on more than a few occasions, I really appreciate it. <p></p><i></i>
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"Disinfo agents"

Postby Pants Elk » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:11 pm

It's hard to know where to start on this without ruffling feathers or raising hackles (whatever they are), but this whole "disinformation" thing is such a ... waste of time. If someone is using this forum to spread disinformation (ie, I suppose, information that is deliberately distorted to some extent to further a hidden agenda - is that a fair definition?) - then it is up to the reader to use their rigorous intuition to sieve out what s/he feels is good and useful from that which is not. Use their own judgement, take what they need, and leave the rest behind. Don't we do this all the time, everywhere, anyway? As to there being *agents* of disinformation, this is, for me, one of the things I tweezer out and throw away. Does anybody have any proof that such a job/person exists? Operatives presumably acting on orders or getting paid for participating in internet forums and winning hearts and minds? Does it take an "agent" to do that? Cannot anyone have an independent point of view that they hide under a "false flag"? But why would they make life so complicated for themselves?<br>One tactic such a person might use would be to make an "unacceptable" (politically, racially, whatever) point of view look reasonable, but how possible is this? How many disinfo agents would it take to make (for example) me think Nazism has been treated unfairly by the historians? Or that (say) the 9/11 towers were brought down by a hail of invisible jellybeans? No matter what references were quoted, I'm going to stick with my own feelings and knowledge.<br>The idea of "disinfo agents" seems an unnecessary complication, a distraction. If someone posts something on RI that you find in whole or part not according to your precepts or findings, why do you need to make a judgement if they're a "disinfo agent" or not? Once you've made the call (on what evidence?) you're not going to believe anything that person says, or at least keep it on hold; it colors your judgement. And you could be wrong. In fact - how do you know you're right? In leveling a charge of being a disinfo agent, could you not be acting as a particularly subtle disinfo agent yourself?<br><br>There's a lot of material I find incredible on RI; that's part of its charm and usefulness. I don't care how outlandish the speculation is. I don't concern myself with the sincerity of the author(s) overmuch, either. Some posts I find myself nodding along to, only to be brought up short by something I find too bizarre (or sometimes, too ordinary) to be taken seriously. Some of it I treat as information in the sense that it seems true, some I treat as information in the sense that it may be true, and not a little of it I treat as information in the sense of it being wildly out of synch with my own take on things. All of it is, in some sense, information. I do not need the concept of "disinformation" to get great benefit from this site (and the others I skim through from time to time) - in fact, the whole concept is redundant, uninteresting, and only serves to turn debate in on itself.<br><br>Of course, it is your right to suspect this posting as the work of a "disinformation agent", and this last paragraph a clever double-bluff. <p></p><i></i>
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disinfo

Postby firstimer » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:38 pm

Now that I see the light, I can abide by that. I really hoped to explore the possibility of such posters in our midst, but it clearly ruins the discovery process. No matter how indirectly you mention the idea, the damage is done. I'm glad that there is recourse however, and I'm guessing things will return to normal now.<br><br>firstimer <p></p><i></i>
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"you" statements

Postby nashvillebrook » Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:17 pm

it's just good manners to avoid "you" statements, period. <br><br>example: "you are a disinfo agent."<br>"am not."<br>"are too."<br><br>it's a childish form of bad manners AND it's sloppy dialoging. <br><br>bettter example: "is "X" data point relevant?"<br>"is it 'true.'"<br>"what's the origin of 'X'?"<br>"what's the backstory."<br><br>"you-statements" by definition are name-calling and they shut down dialogue. examine data. not people. (this works well in real life too).<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Thanks, Jeff

Postby chiggerbit » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:22 pm

Debating different facets of an issue is very interesting, intriguing and informative, so long as it doesn't degenerate into annoying name-calling spats. Personally, I don't even mind discussion of topics that are not politically correct, as (a) I have confidence that the other participants on this board can intelligently point out the weaknesses of the arguments, and because (b) I believe that the best way to enlighten is to engage. If we here refuse to engage, then we contribute to the polarization of thought, and we become just as responsible as the bigots for the results. Name-calling, however, contributes nothing and can be intimidating to some. Good rule, Jeff. <p></p><i></i>
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Jeff

Postby Homeless Halo » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:22 pm

Can I call myself a disinfo agent?<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Jeff

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:19 pm

If you didn't, I would be disappointed. <p></p><i></i>
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good.

Postby Homeless Halo » Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:22 pm

Well, I am a disinfo agent. Who I'm working for, on the other hand, is a mystery even to me. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Jeff

Postby EyesNarrowlyOpen » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:43 pm

... If you have reason to suspect someone is a "disinfo agent,"<br><br>J'eff'accuse! <br><br>Who better than someone calling out those who call out people as disinfo agents, to be a disinfo agent by disinfoing the disinfo!<br><br>Is there a co-dis-intel-info-pro agenda at play??<br><br>Thank goodness the tide has finally turned after 5 years!! Frankly I don't think there'd be much more dis-info agency going on -- all the 'marquee' players must be at least thinking "shit, what if someone actually turns and implicates everyone else ... nah they wouldn't but what if... shit"<br><br>But you're still on the watch list Mr. W! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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I'm going to start a blog...

Postby banned » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:18 am

...that is ONLY for disinformation agents. No ordinary people allowed, they will be sniffed out and, well, banned.<br><br>The disinformation agents will then vie to see who can most thoroughly confuse a subject and put his/her fellow agents into a tizzy. Kind of like "The Apprentice". Only instead of Trump, George, and Carolyn, the judges will be holograms of Kim Philby, James Jesus Angleton, and Tokyo Rose.<br><br>And instead of "you're fired" the tag line will be,<br><br>"You may be a disinfo agent--but you suck at it!"<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Disinfo V's obfuscation...

Postby Trifecta » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:43 am

Disinfo is a less than subtle way of fudging the issues of the day. Obfuscation is the killer of the mind when the intuition of the debate is in full flourish. Obfuscators are the worst energy drainers. Much like those who comment on every thread, those who never leave any spaces between paragraphs and those who tend to digitally stalk others.<br><br>We are all agents of one form or another, and some of us have no idea of our personal agendas or indeed what the next keystroke will be.<br><br>We hope we work for good. <p></p><i></i>
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don't forget

Postby firstimer » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:18 am

All it takes to be a disinfo agent is to be wrong. I'm buying the argument that we all are disinfoists in varying degrees. Motive is decoration here, the coercive statement is the currency. Spend, spend,spend, the thrill of conversion is like gambling with better odds. How often do you luck into a dumb deck of cards in Vegas? <br><br>a short overview<br><br>Coercion is defined by the American Heritage Dictionary as:<br><br>To force to act or think in a certain manner<br><br>To dominate, restrain, or control by force<br><br>To bring about by force.<br><br>Coercive psychological systems are behavioral change programs which use psychological force in a coercive way to cause the learning and adoption of an ideology or designated set of beliefs, ideas, attitudes, or behaviors. The essential strategy used by the operators of these programs is to systematically select, sequence and coordinate many different types of coercive influence, anxiety and stress-producing tactics over continuous periods of time.<br><br>In such a program the subject is forced to adapt in a series of tiny "invisible" steps. Each tiny step is designed to be sufficiently small so the subjects will not notice the changes in themselves or identify the coercive nature of the processes being used. The subjects of these tactics do not become aware of the hidden organizational purpose of the coercive psychological program until much later, if ever. These tactics are usually applied in a group setting by well intentioned but deceived "friends and allies" of the victim. This keeps the victim from putting up the ego defenses we normally maintain in known adversarial situations.<br><br>The coercive psychological influence of these programs aim to overcome the individual's critical thinking abilities and free will - apart from any appeal to informed judgment. Victims gradually lose their ability to make independent decisions and exercise informed consent. Their critical thinking, defenses, cognitive processes, values, ideas, attitudes, conduct and ability to reason are undermined by a technological process rather than by meaningful free choice, rationality, or the inherent merit or value of the ideas or propositions being presented.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.factnet.org/coercivemindcontrol.html?FACTNet">www.factnet.org/coercivem...ml?FACTNet</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>firstimer <p></p><i></i>
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Re: don't forget

Postby Pants Elk » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:23 pm

I'd still like proof - or something that walks, talks, and smells like proof - that "disinfo agents" actually exist. I suspect they may be part of Internet Mythology. I'm not talking about "disinformation" (however you want to define that), but "disinformation agents" which implies, at least to me, some kind of organisation and agenda supporting the "agent" in some way.<br>Is anyone known to be an "agent" in this sense? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I can name a few.

Postby slimmouse » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:11 pm

<br><br> I graduated in history with honours.<br><br> Im therefore nominating those examiners who marked my papers for fooling me completely, into making me think I had an accurate take on the subject by giving me the degree.<br><br> I guess the lecturers got some splainin to do too. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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