killing veritas

by **Dreams End** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:25 am

Some time ago on this forum I began posting on the topic of global resource depletion/global collapse as themes being promoted by those with fascist and eugenicist goals. Most here were sophisticated enough to understand that this did not mean I thought anyone who believed in peak oil or peak food was necessarily a fascist. Some others decided that WAS my point. And some others, being fascists themselves, were rather offended. The very post by proldic, the quotes from Abernethy, etc, were posted by me quite some time ago. I don't know if he remembered that or rediscovered them himself. I'm not saying this to take credit. These things need to be repeated. And often. But for whatever reasons, people whose toes I've stepped on, people I've called out, and people whose ideas really do much better when not exposed to daylight began to come to threads started by Dreams End and just fight. It wasn't argument. It was simply noise. I wrote a tongue in cheek piece confessing my employment with the government, while at the same time posting some of the greatest hits from our resident fascists or those who are not discerning enough to see them as such. "Why can't we point out Jews? We can point out anyone of any other ethnicity or religion and no one complains." Most of us know that their posts complaining about those of other ethnicities or religions seem to get lost in the mail. I've learned a great deal by following these lines of thought. The primary thing I've discovered is that a very great deal of modern conspiracy theory tracks back to age-old Jewish Blood Libel and the thoroughly discredited Protocols. There are those this site who still argue the validity of the Protocols on . And more than one person has suggested that it doesn't matter if they are forgeries or not, they are still true. Whatever. But it grew wearying having really good threads get drowned out by the brown-shirted, zeig heil chorus. Hence my "confession." It was hard to get whatever "work" done that can be accomplished in such a forum. But right after I decided to take a break from this board, I saw a post from "Free Zundel Now." To my great shock, no one seemed that upset about THAT person. Didn't draw nearly the heat I did. Go figure. So I looked up ole FZN. I found the post at stormfront where they discuss how to infiltrate non-fascist websites, what topics to discuss and how to make their hatred more palatable to those truth seekers out there who rely on the internet as their primary information source. I decided to post this but not under "Dreams End" because then it becomes about Dreams End finding Nazis everywhere. Nevermind that this guy WAS an actual, self-professed nazi, the point would have been lost. So I used "Not Zundel." In order to restrict flames and attacks further, I utilized a minimalist, rather cryptic writing style to keep the focus on the information copied and quoted from others. It led to a fruitful discussion. I did not intend to develop a full-scale alternate online persona, though we all do that to some degree, do we not? (Robert D. Reed and Jeff Wells excepted...at least as far as name useage goes...I've never met them in real life.) How many one time posters who are "unregistered users" have popped in to criticize me or my posts? None of them, you imagine, have other names on this board? And how many post as "anonymous" on the comments? In fact, I was first "outed" there by someone who posts on this board by another name. But veritas was mostly about limiting flame wars. I began this post by explaining how I'd posted the Heinberg/Abernethy stuff some time ago. I didn't discover it myself, but I linked directly to an article that was written by the person who had. Needless to say, it did not go over well. After proldic's post, I dug some more. If my instincts were correct, there was another agenda at work here. Putting forward an ideology of imminent collapse combined with the idea that there is no hope to forestall it is dangerous stuff. Yes, ideas CAN be dangerous. Or didn't you know that? But I don't call for censorship...just exposure. Let us unravel these threads and see where they lead. If I'm write, they should turn up some pretty dark stuff. Oh..and they did. And the links go further and further still. Heinberg is really not even that big a player in all this, but he is important as a popularizer of this theme. The Nazi mythos is important, of course, on its face. No, those of you who couldn't catch it on your own, it doesn't mean anyone who meditates or searches for Atlantis is a Nazi. But any scholar of these myths, especially one trying to combine many of these ideas into proof of a single northern, Indo-European Golden Age for which we all secretly yearn, must know of the history of these myths and how they've been appropriated and to what purpose they've been put. And it is the purpose that is the concern here, not the myths themselves. I like myths. Some of my best friends are myths. Christianity can be used for the same reasons. And has been. But the Nazi mythos is so specific, especially as articulated by Heinberg, that there is no mistaking its authorship. He has to know this. And the connection to Dugin, which SHOULD make him very uncomfortable indeed, is left hanging. Dugin is a larger story, but one not too familiar in the West, and one I'm just learning. Search on "Alexander Dugin" as Heinberg must have done at some time, and see the hits that come up. Many, if not most of them are his metaphysical musings about Hyperborea, Thule, and the like. His links to the fascist NBP is also clear. The second hit on google is the one that includes his description of the Jews I included in the thread. Yet, to this day, not a caveat, not even a Watchful Waffle of "sure, he hates Jews, but his position on caviar is EXACTLY RIGHT." Nothing. So he should have been able to find this info easily. In fact, except for the compiling of this info, the research into ALL of this, Heinberg and Dugin both, took a total of about 3 hours. I recommend such scrutiny of all sources. ESPECIALLY THE ONES YOU AGREE WITH. If, in fact, I post here or on my blog from a questionable source PLEASE LET ME KNOW. And tell me why, with examples. It's really important. And I won't flame you...I'll thank you and either explain why I decided to utilize that source or re-evaluate it. My comments about Dugin and Heinberg and the Nazi and anti-Semitic strains in both New Age and conspiracy thought will be confined to my blog from here on out. There's a comments section. Stop by if you like. It's an ongoing series and I can't even keep up with the material I'm finding. Much of it isn't my discovery of course, but it's only now making sense to me. The Maurice Strong story is one that I should pursue. Interestingly, many of the forces opposing "one worlders" like Strong are themselves in the same stream of thought as Heinberg and Dugin. Surely there are alternatives to the New World Order that do not include fascist extremism and eugenic population plans. But they are hard to find, online anyway, as this stream of thought has bubbled into that important discourse in myriad and surprising ways. (Ever wonder WHY Patrick Buchanan hooked up with Lenora Fulani? But that's another story.) And this bullshit has also almost...ALMOST hopelessly contaminated the even darker areas of conspiracy theory. For example, the most recent case in this thread: <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessageRange?topicID=1699.topic&start=61&stop=73">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...61&stop=73</a> I took the time to email Bradley Hamlin directly. I started to post on the discussion board but stopped before I said too much. With the way things are around here, I simply didn't think that my posting as "Dreams End" was a good idea. He wrote back and told me that Richard Hamlin's wife had specifically said she was part of a "Bavarian Satanic Cult" and Bradley Hamlin had heard of the "Illuminati" and......crap. I am not saying this case is bullshit. Far from it. A man is in jail and there are police reports that can be examined. Richard Hamlin would not go to jail for a hoax. The truth, whatever it turns out to be, is very, very dark. It may yet involve the Finders. And the key may be Fresno...but that, too, is another story. But the Bavarian Illuminati idea is so incredibly contaminated with unsourced speculative and usually anti-Semitic strains that whatever truth there may have been is hopelessly lost. See Fritz Springmeier's "Bloodlines of the Illuminati for an example." Then google Springmeier. Then see who all quotes HIM. So, these sources, about which people glibly say ("Hey, it has SOME truth in it, so we shouldn't just dismiss it, right?") have tangled the truth in such a maze of disinformation and outright falsehoods (there's a difference) that real, human tragedies result. I hope people can learn this if nothing else: Partial revelations of the truth, in skillful hands, do more to obscure the truth than outright lies do. And so. Back to veritas. All the information I wanted to put out about RH got put out there. And I wasn't attacked as veritas, though the thread was eventually derailed. The new discussion is fairly interesting, but I wish people would try to stay on topic for those trying to follow the main thread. Anyway, the information made it out there and my cryptic writing style pretty much kept it from being about MY thoughts. Look for yourself. It is clear! Clear! If there was anything to this line of thinking, people would have to work it out for themselves. After Homeless and Gouda and yet another unregistered user named observer outed me, it was time to 'fess up and take whatever attacks will come. The thread was already dead anyway, so no harm now. I only ask one favor from any who are angry at my charade, and that is to leave off carrying any animosity onto the above thread about Hamlin. I may post there from time to time if I find out anything. Already there is some strange side topic on there that finally got put back to rights. It's too important. And maybe there should too be a caveat that he who is without false moniker should cast the first stone... But now it is time for veritas to go. He/she has served his/her purpose but any future posts by veritas would simply be lost in concerns about if that is my 'real' identity. No, it's 'Dreams End.' And Mrs. End is right beside me to confirm it. Kudos to the detective work of Gouda and HH, or at least their intuitions. Obviously, since I posted a very long article about Heinberg on my blog I knew that veritas was not long for this world. So I will sign off this thread with a last message from veritas: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>It has been an honor to spend time among you. Yes! Truthseekers, all. Does my name change ? Yes. Does my name change what IS? No! My name is in Latin. Salvete, amici! It means truth. The 'v' is ALWAYS little. But the truth is very, very big. <hr></blockquote>

by **glubglubglub** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:00 am

even if you were a bit fiery at times for my taste -- to each their own. In my own experience honey + jiujitsu have accomplished more than vinegar and a bumrush, but even so perhaps at this stage of the game berserkers are called for. My only advice: be careful when hunting monsters lest you become one yourself. Godspeed and good luck; you will be missed.

by **Dreams End** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:30 am

Just to be clear...this wasn't a "goodbye cruel board" post. Dream's end will check in from time to time...but not "veritas". Thanks for the nice wishes though!

by **AnnaLivia** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:42 am

<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> DE, put Mrs. End on the line for a sec? Hello, Honey? Can i give him a big hug and a kiss? Right after i SPANK him?!! seriously, you have no idea how much i'm going to miss veritas, DE. really, i'm sad he's gone. maybe he can make a guest appearance once in a while? it was brilliant. SO IS your post above. you NAILED so much. i really do want to write up why i find that thread of such importance, and so regret my lack of time to do so right now. (I'm missing almost all the threads but this subject and Paddy!) you get big thanks from me, DE. you'll come around for other threads, maybe, as DE? c'mon...starman is finally back, the brownshirts are getting outed, Fitzmastime is in the air...what you want to go away now for? tink about it, yes? for the record (i've wanted to say this before 'cause there's some other versions of anna's sometimes), i have never ever posted here at RI under anything but AnnaLivia, or AnnaLiviaPlurabelle. one question. how long ago did you first post about this? 'cause if i had arrived by then, i don't know how i missed it the first time around. honest, DE, i'm so grateful. and i wish you and yours every best wish. what a stitch!

by **Dreams End** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:00 am

Hey ALP, Yeah, I'll be around. Trying to do more longer pieces for my own blog. Here's where I posted about heinberg. It was back in September in a very contentious thread called "ASPO's plan for population reduction." <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm19.showMessageRange?topicID=18.topic&start=41&stop=60">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...41&stop=60</a> I feel bad posting that because it got very heated...You know what I don't want to resurrect the tone of that thread. I'll keep the link but in the spirit of harmony...here's just that part...(kinda long though) <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Now, I admit, I'm not familiar with Heinberg...and he sure looks kinder and gentler. I guess it did bother me a bit when I found the web page of his book that one of the endorsers is Virginia Abernathy, a known racist who is on the advisory board of Occidental Quarterly. Says Wikipedia: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Quote:The Occidental Quarterly is a white nationalist journal that seeks to direct American conservatism in the direction of an Anglo-Saxon cultural and racialist ideology. The journal's name derives from its "devotion to discussing the ethnic, racial and cultural heritage that forms the foundation of Western Civilization [as well as] the contemporary political, social and demographic trends that affect this tradition." It is published by the Charles Martel Society (not to be confused with France's anti-Algerian Charles Martel Group). Charles Martel halted a Muslim invasion of Europe at the Battle of Tours in 732. It explicitly rejects paleoconservatism and neoconservatism in favor of an ideology of White European identity politics, and holds that the American political order of freedom and liberty is under ethnic and ideological threat. Its foreign policy positions, broadly, are anti-immigration, and isolationism, including the rejection of influence from Israel and Mexico on U.S. politics. Its current editor is Kevin Lamb. Its publisher is William Regnery II.Editorial advisory board members [1] include Virginia Abernethy, Richard Lynn, Kevin B. MacDonald, Wayne Lutton, and Brent Nelson. Jared Taylor, of the American Renaissance magazine, is a past member.[2] Sam Francis was an associate editor until his death. In response to criticism, Regnery defended the editorial board, stating: "Of the thirteen individuals on its editorial board, ten hold Ph.D.s and two others are editors of their own publications. All are respected writers in their own fie<hr></blockquote><hr></blockquote> Here's what Abernathy says of Heinberg's book, The Party's Over: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Quote:The Party's Over begins with a commanding review of world history, where past and current developments including war, empire, and population growth are interpreted as functions of cheap or increasingly scarce and expensive energy. The discussion of substitutes for fast-depleting fossil fuels, and the formidable impediments to making the transition that would allow industrial civilization to continue, are important to every investor and citizen. <hr></blockquote> Now, Abernathy is well known for her views, but, you know...it's not Heinberg's fault that blurb got put on his website under the list of "endorsers". He'd never associate with that kind of thinking, now would he? Who else is a fan of Heinberg? David Pimental has a blurb there too. Wonder who he is? Well, he's the guy saying we have to get the earth down to 2 billion folks (a number that pops up a lot. He also...or at least his wife Marcia, serve with Abernathy on the Carrying Capacity Network. He also works with NPG (Negative Population Growth) Here's an excerpt from an interview that explains how these "population reduction" folks have been using the idea of resource depletion to advance a very questionable agenda. It mentions both Pimental and Abernathy. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Quote:The greening of hate Interview of Betsy Hartmann by Fred Pearce, [20 February 2003] The poor are to blame for environmental decline because they have been putting their own ecosystems under intolerable population pressure. That’s the hidden ideology of far too many environmentalists in the US who really should know better, says Betsy Hartmann, a radical feminist and academic. So much for the green on the outside, red on the inside label that’s often hung round eco-campaigners; some conservationists, she told Fred Pearce recently, are the new conservatives What do you think is going on among environmentalists? Is the right wing taking over? I first realised that the right wing was attempting to penetrate the mainstream environment movement when I sat on a panel at an environmental meeting in the University of Oregon in 1994. Beside me was a professor and environmentalist, Virginia Abernethy of Vanderbilt University in Tennessee. She seemed to me to blame immigrants for overpopulating our country and destroying our environment. Some of the audience liked her ideas but I thought they were racist. I started to investigate and found she wasn’t alone among conservationists. She was a leader of the group called the Carrying Capacity Network, which sounds like a benign environmental organisation but its main campaign is to halt what it calls mass migration to the US. They blame migrants for destroying pristine America. For instance, they blame Mexican migrants for starting fires in national forests near the border. This group has prominent environmental scientists on its advisory board. People like biologist Tom Lovejoy, the green economist Herman Daly and the ecologist David Pimental. I call this the greening of hate. It sounds like a conspiracy theory Well, it seems to me that the anti-immigration movement in the US has a strong green wing. For instance, they formed a group within the Sierra Club—a prominent nature protection organisation—trying to push it into a policy of immigration restriction and population reduction. Abernethy has spoken at conferences of the right wing Council of Conservative Citizens. And some of these people are getting funding from groups such as the Pioneer Fund, whose aims, as set out in its charter, are to fund research into genetics and study into the problems of human race betterment. Aren’t these just political games? It’s more than that. There is an academic journal called Population and Environment, published by Kluwer, which is edited by Kevin MacDonald, an evolutionary psychologist who writes about a Jewish plot to liberalise immigration policies. In 1999, MacDonald appeared in court in Britain to defend the historian and holocaust denier David Irving. The journal’s advisory editorial board includes famous environmental scientists such as Paul Ehrlich, who wrote The Population Bomb, Pimental again, and Vaclav Smil, a professor at the University of Manitoba in Canada. Sitting beside them on the board is J. Philippe Rushton, a psychology professor from the University of Western Ontario in Canada, who has a theory about how black people have small brains, low IQ, large sex organs and high aggression. What are environmental scholars doing getting mixed up with these kinds of people? www.hartford-hwp.com/arch...b/027.html<hr></blockquote> So, it seems that there really is a problem with "ecofascism". And they really do seem drawn to the whole "resource depletion" thing. Hey, did you ever learn in school about the "Tragedy of the Commons"? Famous ecological dictum, no? Did you know that the guy behind that idea, Garrett Hardin, gets money from the Pioneer Fund, a foundation that openly funds eugenics research? www.pioneerfund.org/Grantees.html So this is the context for all this concern. You have clear patterns of "academics" preaching that resources are being depleted and using this idea to justify immigrant bashing, and racialist ideologies. Combine that with a call for population reduction...and you see how some of us can get a little concerned. Does this mean that everyone who believes resources are stressed to breaking is a racist? Of course not...that's not the point. In fact, the article above shows how these folks sort of infiltrated the environmental movement...though to be honest, I think this strain of environmentalism has been around a long time. The point is that resource depletion/overpopulation is consistently used as a rallying cry for those wanting to remake the world in a decidedly paler hue. Neutral terms, such as "population reduction" hide the fact that it will be the rich nations dictating who gets reduced (in fact, they are doing so now). In fact, many groups, such as NPG... (funded by Warren Buffett, I believe) have this neat trick: We have to REDUCE population in these OTHER countries...but we can take care of most of our own population problems just by limiting immigration. That's the program in a nutshell, right there. Make life untenable in the nonwhite world and beef up the borders in the rich countries. If that's not eugenics...I don't know what is. Hey, here are some folks you can talk to when you get tired of having to stoop down to my intellectual level: www.bnp.org.uk/peakoil/politics.htm[/quote] Now...please do NOT start up Peak Oil on this thread! Start another one, if you must. I'm just trying to explain the whole veritas thing.

by **AnnaLivia** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:54 am

now that you mention the name of that thread, i remember seeing the title. i never clicked on it. i'll always be glad you repeated it!

by **jenz** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:13 am

too economical with the verite for my taste

by **Qutb** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:30 am

A "thank you" is in order for your fabulous detective work. There are two connections that I find particularily interesting: The "Emmissaries of Divine Light", the cultish group Heinberg was involved in, and the Russian/"eurasian" fascist movement. Dugin recently spoke at a "eurasian" conference in Turkey, organized by a former Turkish president, and attended by the ambassadors to Turkey from all the Central Asian countries. He's not a marginal figure. I also find it interesting that Heinberg lived in a "New Age ranch" in Colorado, just like his fellow "environmentalist", Maurice Strong. I'll definitely be following your blog!

by **Dreams End** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:13 pm

Clarification, Someone contacted me and pointed out that my posting of my original article about Heinberg looked like I was trying to "compete" with proldic. That wasn't my intent. I made the connection about Mike Ruppert and population reduction by reading Dave McGowan, but the general connection with "environmentalist/resource depletion" folks I learned about from proldic in a post from some time back. It was probably on od1. That was probably the thread in which I first heard about Heinberg. So no competition, here and I actually owe my understanding of this "reduction" school of "ecology" to proldic. Didn't want that to get lost in the shuffle. My point was to show that as Dream's End, more stuff from me on Heinberg would have been less openly received and would have degenerated into namecalling. Notice, for example, how Jenz took to following veritas around and sniping. Not contributing to the conversation, just sniping. Dream's End gets a lot of that, but veritas was starting to as well. Carry on. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 11/5/05 10:18 am

by **jenz** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:30 pm

on the cover. I had not, as some had, guessed it was dreams in disguise partly because the name veritas has various unfortunate connotations, and partly because the cryptically snide style is so reminiscent of perps at play, that when it was suggested that it was you, Dreams, I thought, no can't be, anyone using that knowing the effect on people with unfortunate encounters in their past would have to be as insensitive as a brick shit-house door in a force ten gale. It does, however, effectively block discussion. tatty bye, toodle pip, take care.

by **israelirealities** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:40 pm

Oh, so you are the "wizard of Pravda". this identity was festive, intriguing and colorful. Except when you approached me I was afraid of MC...:-)), I wrote a little about my bad experience with internet weird stuff, in another post. Sorry about it. There was someone in Israel who was doing something with a different technique but it was not pleasant, and he was government. So much for the damages of PTSD.. 000000 The topic is fascinating, although I don't know this person heinberg, and most of the other names you all read regularly. For me, this is all new and keeping up with this interesting world is not easy, lots of reading to do, and even your posts are long and require a lot of effort. ---- You sound like a very knowledgable person, and a fine researcher/investigative blogger/person. I am sure there's a lot to learn from you on everything. As for Israel, I reserve my right to first hand impressions and priorities. We have a saying in Hebrew :"what you see from there you cannot see from here" and vice versae, namely, it takes a person to BE somewhere in order to know. That's true everywhere but more so, here. I read some of prodlic's long emails (i broke down half way through the 1948 documents), and I still think the sources on Jared SIrael's website deserve someone like you, to dig up the true context of those "israeli professors" he is citing. We know them here, but outside of ISrael, that's different. Like Bibi Netanyahu looked so reasonable when he appeared in American TV, but everyone who lives here, knows who this person IS, or SHimon Peres. (people like Sharon, on the other hand, are wearing the dark hearts on their sleeves, which makes it actually easier to deal with them). But I don't suppose anyone here has your skills, and time, to work on each and every person who is delivering their version on Palestine/Israel/Antisemism-Zionism. i also don't know the LaRouche, Makow....etc., group cited here as racists. for some reason, I didn't feel yet compelled to read their materials. I am sure they are wrong. As for information, sometimes, you can find interesting facts even in Stormfront, although it is a cesspool. But since they have the incentive to dig up trash, they sometimes succeed. Of course these creeps are of interest and concern to you, people, living there. For us, they are less than phantoms. I live in a predominantly Jewish society, ruled by Jews, and so we are not exposed to this menace directly. I really don't know how to deal with these people, and I am not trying to interfere. I see them as most of the threads here, issues pertaining to other societies, where I can witness and learn, but really have nothing useful to say about them.

by **AnnaLivia** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:09 pm

the concern expressed by jenz and IR that veritas' style might risk frightening mind-control victims...i do take that as a most thoughtful cautionary. if it's hurtful to those folks, then no, it isn't worth it. but every time i read veritas, i thought to myself here's a guy who knows that there is really no such thing as teaching; there is only learning. like i learned from shem/mingy/etc., when i whined that i wanted to throw the book against the wall...that JJ wrote Finnegans Wake precisely to make one build one's own mental muscle. it's SUPPOSED to be a hard challenge. and i'll bet my bottom dollar that proldic doesn't mind being lent a hand by veritas. he can't be everywhere. btw, Ruth wants to know if P and v are as ornamental as they are useful. (she's insufferable this morning, i tell ya.)

by **israelirealities** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:29 pm

AL, it was fine for me except when the dialoguing was with me. I think it is a dramatic exception to the dry routine of boards, but for me, as in having to respond to this "entity", it was triggering. I don't think it should be ruled out as a rule, I think people who have a vulnerability should say so and 'veritas" respected my request immediately and courteously, totally validating and respecting my boundaries. I think this was good enough. As for the contents, I should take the time sometime to explain better what I see as an underlying "conflict of interest" among people of different locales, with respect to the various manifestation of PTB and specifically with the US imperialism. We should acknowledge this out in the open, rather than beating around the Bush... Briefly, surely for an Israeli the group/phenomenon of Stormfront is "who cares" and sometimes beneficial, in terms of getting info that MY governemnt withholds from ME. They don't infest my country, and the are instrumental. However, saying this is not useful for the struggles WITHING the US, and so this is one clear conflict of interests in the short term goals. I am not dealing here in Israel with overall Nazi plans in the world, we have a "Jewish State" just for that reason, i am dealing with my rather impossible and very very bad government (bad for me and other Israelis, not only Arabs). And so I am narutally looking for help,. information, anything that will give me leverage against this government. However, well meaning and democratic people like prol I suppose, who ahve a global agenda, have other priorities, they live in another location have other things making their daily lives very bad. They are looking for means and ways to attain their goals. They don't give a shit if this is good or bad for MY struggle right now, and this is where we have to be honest. The American mindset is imperialist even as a freedom frighter. The American mind cannot encompass the existence of other priorities. The same mind that created the "world police" is there in other issues. And I have to point to it, bluntly. It is not I, the ISraeli Jew, should join hands with this very just struggle against the mighty dark Nazis. FUck, the Nazis, I am in Israel, I don't have them, I have my problems, and we are dying here, we have the bombs here, we have a fascist governmetn and universal draft, we use your weapons, we get the heat from left to right, we have bad food, we have bad weather..(well, that was just out..), etc. But Americans usually think that others should hang on there with their lives up in the air, sacrifice their lives if needed, for the "good war". Well, this is not pleasant, because I am not sitting in my nice lounge talking about Stormfront idiots. And in fact, a year ago Stormfront broke the gag in Israel re the New Zealand fiasco. Our government hid it very well, from US. So, for me, viva stormfront. And you should see my point as well. The Israeli govenment is not a disney movie or a picnic. Well, sorry for being a bit rough on the edges. I felt mis understood.

by **AnnaLivia** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:10 pm

and you don't know how sorry i am that you felt misunderstood, i think, due to my damn time constraints, IR. there are lots of replies i've wanted to make to lots of people around here who never know when i think their comments are wonderful or useful, etc. (there isn't a single soul on here i don't like plenty so far, 'cept for the nazi trash) don't think i don't have deepest disgust for the vermin at the top of your government, sugar. if i don't ream them often enough, it's just i ain't got around to that yet. i was so proud of helen clark of NZ for not letting that passport thing be swept under the rug. that lady ain't perfect, but what a damn site better than what you and i have, eh? you see, that fire i'm trying to light under american's butts is because YOU, and the whole bloody world, NEED US TO DO THAT, imo. like it or not, the USA is the super-power, and we still have the vote (which, because the citizenry has been so lax for so long now is going to require HUGE turnouts to make it impossible to steal yet again). i don't say the things i do because i'm insular. it's precisely because i think Joe American has a responsibility commensurate with his government's power, to fix this mess while the revolution can still be relatively bloodless, that i focus on america. again, i'm sorry i didn't get that said before now. does it clear things up a little? believe me, i see you personally as already going above and beyond the call of duty where you are at. and i'm glad as glad that you found this board, honey! for me, it's all steps to eventually deconstructing the idea of having billionaires. then and only then has the revolution worth having arrived. (got another bump in the road to get over on my way down under, but i'd love to take you with me if i could, sweets)

by **israelirealities** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:55 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>don't think i don't have deepest disgust for the vermin at the top of your government, sugar.<hr></blockquote> THis feels heartwarming. Yes, Helen Clark is remarkable, and the fact she is a woman adds to the joy. She was able to stand up to the "charming sex appeal" of the Israeli thugs. I don't think she went all the way, or deep enough, to care for the victims of this "operation", namely, the Israeli or NZ-Jewish victims. Perhaps its not her job, but whose job is it, BTW ? its a rhetorical question of course. Thanks for the affirmation, in general. And good luck with the move, the obstacles just make the arrival sweeter. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=israelirealities@rigorousintuition>israelirealities</A> at: 11/5/05 2:57 pm

killing veritas

killing veritas

you'll be missed

Re: you'll be missed

ROFLMAO! O U Norty Boy!

Re: ROFLMAO! O U Norty Boy!

good heavens

not sending flowers

Re: not sending flowers

Re: not sending flowers

congrats

Re: hey

Re: hey

Re: hey

Re: hey IR

Re: hey IR

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