Interesting Xymphora post on conspiracy theories

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Interesting Xymphora post on conspiracy theories

Postby starroute » Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:24 pm

I don't know that I agree with most of it, but it seems worth tossing out here for discussion. Someone was suggesting here a little while ago that the style and attitudes of Xymphora had changed lately, possibly in the direction of disinfo, and I'd be interested in hearing more on that, as well.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/12/competing-conspiracies.html">xymphora.blogspot.com/200...acies.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>With the new credibility of conspiracy theory the new technique of deception is to use a veneer of conspiracy to sell your latest lies. I shouldn't say it is absolutely new, as it is as old as conspiracy, but it has become fashionable and has a few new twists. The Pentagon wants to promote its latest version of Poindexter's Total Information Awareness, so it cloaks the Able Danger story - I'll have more to say about this later - with tales of whistleblowers. The false whistleblowers reveal that the authorities had Atta in their sights if only for those dastardly lawyers with their 'civil rights' and 'Constitution' and 'rule of law'. Just dump all these dangerous legalities, let us watch over you protectively, and 9-11 won't happen again. Trust us! By hiding it behind whistleblowers, they give the self-serving story a credibility it otherwise would not have. . . .<br><br>There isn't just one conspiracy theory, there are many. The Powers That Be have noticed that many of them are mutually exclusive. In other words, if you have a problem you want to hide, just leak a competing, and more compelling, conspiracy theory. The two main WTC towers fell down because they were intentionally built under the authority of the Port Authority to avoid normal New York construction standards. They were built out of popsicle sticks and wads of David Rockefeller's used chewing gum. The real scandal is that these buildings, and quite possibly many others of the same general type - and we'll never know until the next 'terrorist' attack as the issue has been entirely ignored - were built to maximize rentable space at the expense of public safety. The controlled demolition theory suits the conspirators as it is mutually exclusive with the real conspiracy. If the buildings were brought down by explosives, the issue of construction is rendered irrelevant. Thus the real problem escapes notice. The demolition theory actually neatly hides the truth, and may result in public safety issues as the real scandal will never be addressed. Of course, if all or even a moderate percentage of the tall buildings built since 1970 are unsafe, that would be the biggest and most expensive conspiracy of all time. . . .<br><br>The reason all the building materials were whisked away was not to hide evidence of demolition, it was to hide the quality of the materials used in building the buildings (the quality of the concrete was the scandal that arose out of the big Turkish earthquakes, but all the incriminating evidence in New York was swiftly buried). Controlled demolition is as bad as showboating attorneys acting on behalf of 9-11 survivors purporting to sue the Saudis for it. It is not just nonsense, it is dangerous nonsense (as we get further away from 9-11, it is becoming clearer that most if not all claims that 9-11 was conducted on Saudi funding was just Zionist propaganda, and Saudi Arabia had nothing to do with al Qaeda). Increasing misuse of conspiracy theories by the real conspirators - the guys with the money and power - is our latest problem.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
starroute
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:01 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Strange Loops

Postby robertdreed » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:02 pm

In a chapter found in one of the books in Robert Anton Wilson's <i>Schrodinger's Cat</i> trilogy, Wilson does a terrific summary of the theory of the Double-Cross System of Intelligence and "strange loops." If I had a copy of the book, I'd hand-type it out. An understanding of the stratagem and its tactics is pretty much mandatory for anyone attempting to fathom the depths of hidden history. <p></p><i></i>
robertdreed
 
Posts: 1560
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 11:14 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Strange Loops

Postby Qutb » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:32 pm

Well, I agree about cd, but I think Able Danger is real, and Saudi funding is not "Zionist propaganda" (though it's probably less important than other funding sources, such as the drugs trade and also legitimate businesses).<br><br>I've never found myself agreeing much with Xymphora, so I haven't been following closely enough to notice any change. <p></p><i></i>
Qutb
 
Posts: 1203
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 2:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

I just came from reading that post

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:41 pm

and was thinking of writing something about it when I have time, which unfortunately I don't now. Or perhaps writing something about the comments, which are even more interesting. (The accusation that he must be a paid agent of disinfo, for instance, simply because he discounts demolition.)<br><br>I don't think xymphora's style or attitude has changed. What's changed is the format of the blog, and I think that colours readers' opinions. <p></p><i></i>
Rigorous Intuition
 
Posts: 1744
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:36 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: changes

Postby proldic » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:03 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>as we get further away from 9-11, it is becoming clearer that most if not all claims that 9-11 was conducted on Saudi funding was just Zionist propaganda, and Saudi Arabia had nothing to do with al Qaeda<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
proldic
 
Posts: 989
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Post & comments now modified

Postby rapt » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:05 pm

Since a couple of hours ago Xymphora has deleted most of the original post and more than half of the comments on it. Sure, RI, he's a straight shooter.<br><br>Originally every last comment, except for those from his lackey Tank, was made in disgust and disbelief that such obvious tripe could be posted by Xymphora. I have checked in there regularly and I have seen the accusations that he is a paid shill. But this post was un-frickin-believable. Too bad you missed the full text. <p></p><i></i>
rapt
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:31 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Correction

Postby rapt » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:15 pm

The deletion accusation above is my error; I checked back into the wrong post on Xymphora. It's all still there, but my criticisms stand as written (mostly). <p></p><i></i>
rapt
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:31 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Strange Loops

Postby starroute » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:26 pm

Able Danger may have really existed, but I'm quite sure that it's being pushed now for psy-ops and/or TIA purposes. Its patron, General Schoomaker, is associated with a list of bad things as long as your arm, from Waco to Abu Ghraib. And Curt Weldon seems to be as nutty as a fruitbat and is in very deep with Reverend Moon besides. I wouldn't trust any of them for a moment.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
starroute
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:01 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

I never know quite what to make of Xymphora

Postby kornholio » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:23 pm

The blog includes a lot of nonsense, and (s)he seems completely deluded about the geopolitical role of Israel, but every now and then there's a unique insight.<br><br>My guess is crank, not disinfo, but who knows? If it's disinfo, it's disinfo of the "conspiracy theory = anti-Semitic" variety.<br><br>"Saudi Arabia had nothing to do with al Qaeda" is a remarkable statement by itself. He throws out the claim of "Zionist propaganda" so casually, and with no substantiation whatsoever, you have to wonder.<br><br>Discounting suspicion of WTC controlled demolition doesn't make him a disinformation agent, but it is odd to see him pooh-poohing CD and its adherents while touting the "no plane hit the Pentagon" theory.<br><br>So I think he's wrong on a lot of the particulars of that post. It's true that false conspiracy theories are sometimes floated to discredit or deflect attention from real conspiracies, but that's no news, and his examples are dubious.<br><br>One last note: I don't agree that Xymphora has changed or "sold out" or whatever commenters on that blog are alleging. If it's disinfo, it's been disinfo all along. I think these accusations started after Fintan Dunne's infamous "CIA fakes" list came out. <p></p><i></i>
kornholio
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:51 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Strange Loops

Postby Qutb » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:27 pm

Yes, Weldon is a nut, but he's just the messenger. But there may of course be a reason why these people have come forward with that story, other than a burning desire for the truth to be known (it doesn't necessarily add to their credibility that Weldon was the man they went to with it). However, I think the fact that it was headed by someone like Schoomaker adds to its significance. What did he do with the information that was found, the dots that were connected? There's probably not much to be expected from the Senate Intel Committee report which is forthcoming, but if open hearings are held, some new information may be revealed. <p></p><i></i>
Qutb
 
Posts: 1203
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 2:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Schrodinger's Cat - The Homing Pigeons

Postby Rambuncle » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:57 pm

Pages 380-382<br><br>Knight knew what most people only vaguely suspected--that Intelligence Agencies engage in both the collection of valid signals (information) and the promiscuous dissemination of fake signals (disinformation). They collected the information so that they could form a fairly accurate picture of what was really going on; they spread the disinformation so that all their competitors would form grossly inaccurate pictures. They did this because they knew that whoever could find out what the hell was really going on possessed an advantage over those who were misinformed, confused, and disoriented.<br><br>This game had been invented by Joseph Fouche, who was the chief of the secret police under Napoleon. British Intelligence very quickly copied all of Fouche's tactics, and surpassed them, because an intelligent Englishman is always ten times as mad, in a methodical way, than any Frenchman. By the time of the First World War, Intelligence Agencies everywhere had created so much disinformation and confusion that no two historians ever were able to agree about why the war happened, and who double-crossed whom. They couldn't discover whether the war had been plotted or had just resulted from a series of blunders. They couldn't even decide whether the two conspiracies to assassinate Archduke of Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary (which triggered the war) had been aware of each other.<br><br>By the time of the Second World War, the "Double Cross System" had been invented--by British Intelligence, of course. This was the product of such minds as Alan Turing, a brilliant homosexual mathematician who (when not working on espionage) specialized in creating logical paradoxes other mathematicians couldn't solve, and Ian Fleming, whose fantasy life was equally rich (as indicated by his later James Bond books), and Dennis Wheatley, a man of exceptionally high intelligence who happened to believe that an international society of Satanists was behind every conspiracy that he didn't invent himself. By the time Turing, Fleming, Wheatley and kindred British intellects had perfected the Double-Cross System, the science of lying was almost as precise as Euclidean geometry, and nearly as lovely to the detached observer.<br><br>What the Double-Cross experts had invented was the practical applications of the Strange Loop. In logic or cybernetics, a Strange Loop is a set of propositions that, while valid at each point, is so constructed that it leads to an unresolvable paradox. The Double-Cross people drove the Germans bonkers by inventing disinformation systems that, if believed, were deceptive, but if doubted led to a second disinformation system. They enjoyed this work so much that, at times, they invented Triple Loops, in which if you believed the surface or cover, you were being fooled; and if you looked deeper, you found a plausible alternative, which seemed like the "hidden facts," but that was just another scenario created to fool you; and, if you were persistent enough, you would find beneath that, looking every bit like the Naked Truth, a third layer of deception and masquerade.<br><br>These Strange Loops functioned especially well because the Double-Cross experts had early onfed the Germans the primordial Strange Loop, "Most of your agents are working for us and feeding you Strange Loops."<br><br>Many German agents, it later turned out, had managed to collect quite a bit of accurate information about the Normandy invasion; but many others had turned in equally plausible information about a ficticious Norwegian invasion; and all of them were under suspicion, anyway. German intelligence might as well have made its decision by tossing a coin in the air. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things - Terry Pratchett, Jingo</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i></i>
Rambuncle
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 9:31 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Schrodinger's Cat - The Homing Pigeons

Postby Dreams End » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:26 pm

That's fascinating. I wonder if there are any concrete examples in that book? Surely our own CIA, etc are no less talented. They can always hire mad englishmen if their own wells have run dry.<br><br>I think 9/11 must surely be textbook. <p></p><i></i>
Dreams End
 


Return to Media and Information Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests