Thomas Pynchon?

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Thomas Pynchon?

Postby steve vegas » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:00 am

Nothing really to say, just wanted to start a thread on the man. I'm certain he fits into the puzzle somehow. I'm particularly interested in thoughts about Vineland and Mason & Dixon, my two personal favorites. I'll have to admit up front I've read everything, EXCEPT, Gravity's Rainbow, of which I've read about 40%, for some reason I've never been able to finish it. OOOH, probably not related to OZ in any way, but I just realized that all the rainbow talk in the comments on the latest post must have made me think of G.R.<br><br>Just off the top of my head. <br><br>The Jesuits in M&D?<br><br>Frenesi Gates in Vineland- coopted/mind control?<br><br>The network of secret roads and prison camps in Vineland.<br><br>I'll post more questions as I think of them.<br><br>Also any thoughts on the man himself? We all know he's shadowy, enigmatic and reclusive, but why? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Thomas Pynchon?

Postby anotherdrew » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:33 am

"steve vegas" sounds like one of his characters kinda....<br>Vineland sure seem to mirror reality well. I remember being really spooked when they board the comercial flight to hawii in air. Agent Brock just seems too true. I have read all of Gravity's Rainbow but not any of M&D. Crying of Lot 49 reminds me in some way of Phillip K. Dick's Man in the High Castle, but I'm not sure just why, wouldn't they have been written around the smae time? I wonder if they knew each other? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Thomas Pynchon?

Postby steve vegas » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:37 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"steve vegas" sounds like one of his characters kinda....<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>i'm flattered that my self applied psuedonym kinda sounds like a Pynchon character...<br><br>i wonder if those two ever did meet, i doubt we'll ever know... <p></p><i></i>
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Pynchon Unraveled

Postby JimNelson » Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:43 pm

There's a very good essay on Pynchon here <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.ottosell.de/pynchon/inferno.htm">www.ottosell.de/pynchon/inferno.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Pynchon Unraveled

Postby Gouda » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:02 pm

Thank you, Mr. Nelson, for posting the Hollander essay...excellent, excellent. Herein, deep literature and deep politics intertwine, one revealing the other and vice-versa. The Morgan/Rothschild vs. Rockefeller/Dulles techno-dynasty usurpation dynamic is a new perspective for me.<br><br>***<br><br>Aside: He mentions this Teilhard de Chardin fella, and the notion of entropy vs. return ("Return" being a prominant theme looked into here on the RI Board)...well, T. de Chardin has been popping up a lot recently in my "review of literature". Teilhard de Chardin, I think (with V. Vernadsky), is the originator of the notion of the "noosphere", which is well mused over in Erik Davis' <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Techgnosis</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, inter alia... <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Throughout Gravity’s Rainbow Pynchon’s various spokesmen argue Entropy vs Return. Teilhard De Chardin, the noted Jesuit scholar, there are those who articulate the inevitability of energy dissipation, that all systems go from states of high energy, to less, to none, following the second law of thermodynamics. Others argue that there is always some chance of renewal, that there is still some dialectic operating in History, Fortune’s Wheel.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>I might not be remiss in guessing there are links to the powerdown crowd here in the second law and the transworld new agers in the idea of the noosphere... <br><br> <br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Pynchon Unraveled

Postby Gouda » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:16 pm

The old Thurn and Taxis intelligence-driven parallel postal system scheme smacks of the hermetic trickster at work... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Pynchon Unraveled

Postby Gouda » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:25 pm

Mr. Nelson, would you or anyone know where to find Mr. Hollander's essay: "Pynchon, JFK and the CIA: Magic Eye Views of The Crying of Lot 49"? All links to the vheissu website are no longer found. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: JFK, Pynchon, CIA

Postby JimNelson » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:16 pm

They have it at<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.themodernword.com/pynchon/pynchon_papers.html">www.themodernword.com/pyn...apers.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>which seems to be a treasure trove for Pynchon analysis.<br><br>Who can resist a title like "Raids on the Conscious: Pynchon's Legacy of Paranoia and the Terrorism of Uncertainty in Don DeLillo's 'Ratner's Star?" <p></p><i></i>
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Re: JFK, Pynchon, CIA

Postby Gouda » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:20 pm

thanks...but i tried that already. leads to a dead end at vheissu, which is dead. <p></p><i></i>
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re:underground postal

Postby hanshan » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:24 pm

<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Gouda, herewith:</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Pynchon, JFK and the CIA:<br>Magic Eye Views of The Crying of Lot 49<br></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br> <br>Charles Hollander<br> <br>Pynchon Notes 40-41, spring-fall 1997, p.61-106<br> <br> <br><br>—Mr. Hollander, an independent scholar from Baltimore, Maryland (US), very kindly granted permission to have this article reproduced at vheissu.be, July 7, 2002—<br><br> <br>Introduction<br> (pp. 61-67)<br> <br>Chapter 1: The Name Game<br> (pp. 67-72)<br> <br>Chapter 2: Sanctification of the Dead<br> (pp. 72-76)<br> <br>Chapter 3: Allusion, Parody, Analogy and Enthymeme<br> (pp. 76-86)<br> <br>Chapter 4: The Military-Industrial Complex and Plausible Deniability<br> (pp. 86-90)<br> <br>Chapter 5: Who? What? When? Where? Why?<br> (pp. 90-94)<br> <br>Chapter 6: Most Damning Analogies<br> (pp. 95-101)<br> <br>Notes<br> (pp. 101-104)<br> <br>Works Cited<br> (pp. 104-106)<br> <br> <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20021203150723/http://www.vheissu.be/art/art_eng_49_hollander.htm#inl" target="top">web.archive.org/web/20021203150723/http://www.vheissu.be/art/art_eng_49_hollander.htm#inl</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.themodernword.com/pynchon/pynchon_lot49.html" target="top">www.themodernword.com/pynchon/pynchon_lot49.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Adventures in Etymology<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Spinach Scones at Crudely's Pub & Breakfast</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>by B.M.W. Schrapnel, Ph.D.<br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.pynchon.pomona.edu/bio/adventures.html" target="top">www.pynchon.pomona.edu/bio/adventures.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:blue;font-family:comic sans ms;font-size:xx-small;">....</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: re:underground postal

Postby Gouda » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:30 pm

ah, web.archive.org, right. Cheers hanshan. <p></p><i></i>
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Many Thanks...

Postby steve vegas » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:12 am

to Mr. Nelson and hanshan for the links. I'm trying to number the ways in which my mind has just been blown. I have to re-read everything now. Any thoughts on M & D? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Many Thanks...

Postby Gouda » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:14 am

Good stuff from "Pynchon, JFK and the CIA: Magic Eye Views of The Crying of Lot 49" by Hollander:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>For Pynchon, writing itself is dangerous. Dugdale identifies"a desire to reveal the self, to bring things into the open . . . but it is always countered by an opposing force, the sense of the risk of exposure and dispossession, the inclination toward secrecy. . . . [T]he texts contain political messages which [Pynchon] is unwilling to communicate directly" (2, 3). Harry Levin reminds us that political satirists, who hold state folly up to public ridicule, have often received harsh state treatment —beatings, imprisonment, loss of property, exile, death. So Pynchon communicates indirectly, and clues us in by using, of all possible names, Oedipa for the name of his central figure.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Eliadic machinery is another means for Pynchon to launder forbidden historical material and bring it up from the underside to the overside, and reader-detectives should be alert to it. For example, Pierce Inverarity, as a name and a character, has both high magic and historical import, as we will see.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The runaway can, or bomb, of hair spray, "whoosh[ing]" to the accompaniment of "the buzzing, distorted uproar from the TV set" (37), recalls the German buzzbomb raids on London during the second World War; and right on cue, a Paranoid groupie asks, "'Are you from London? . . . Is that a London thing you're doing?'" (3<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> . So the lovers' All-Souls' Ritual of Osiris also sanctifies the dead of the London blitz in their mimetic-magical reënactment of the London event, a reënactment followed by a significantly coincidental blackout when the Paranoids blow a fuse.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Pynchon links the Rockefellers to the Nazis by naming the owner of the "Swastika Shop" (16<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> Winthrop. The novel contains many German allusions, and, as we will see, allusions to Rockefeller retainers Forrestal, Dulles and McCarthy; and Pierce Inverarity evokes Pierce-Waters Oil, in which the Rockefellers owned a controlling interest. But the use of Winthrop is the most overt suggestion that the Rockefellers were themselves racist Nazis.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>And i am only 1/3 through the essay so far...<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20021203150723/http://www.vheissu.be/art/art_eng_49_hollander.htm#inl">web.archive.org/web/20021...er.htm#inl</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Many Thanks...

Postby Gouda » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:48 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Pynchon's loading Lot 49 with Jewish names reminds us how Jews have periodically been historically important in matters of state, only to be "evicted from their estates" in the ebb and flow of politics<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Pynchon might also be using the tale of Russian-Confederate conflict, Dugdale argues, to parody "the events of 2-3 August 1964, the so-called first and second Tonkin Gulf incidents (the latter entirely fictive), which Lyndon Johnson used as a pretext to launch bombing strikes and acquire new powers to conduct the [Vietnam] war in secret" (155). So, on the underside of the joke narrative, we have one level of allusion to the role of Russia in the American Civil War and another to the way real or imaginary naval encounters provided the pretext for increasing U.S. presidential powers during the Vietnam War. Pynchon is zeroing in.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Fallopian explains that PPS mail-delivery operates only in San Narciso, but has pilot projects in "'in Washington and I think Dallas'" (53). Dallas might have raised red flags in the minds of characters in 1964, the time of the narrative, and would have raised red flags in the minds of reader in 1966, when the novel was published. Dallas was where, on November 22, 1963, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated. In 1964, the year of the Warren's Commission's report on the assassination, Dallas was a buzzword, nearly synonymous with assassination and coverup, as loaded with sinister implication for Americans as the name Tristero was for the Jacobeans at the time of The Courier's Tragedy.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But the next paragraph presents the chilling nexus of San Narciso, Washington and Dallas. De Witt was opposed to the state and was killed; someone unnamed was killed in Dallas, so (filling in the enthymeme) JFK must have been opposed to the state (or the military-industrial complex). Enthymeme by analogy: the House of Orange (the state) is to Jan De Witt as the military-industrial complex (the state) is to Dallas —which in 1964 stood for JFK. No joke.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Toward the end of The Courier's Tragedy, a miracle occurs. Duke Angelo's "lying document" becomes "now miraculously a long confession by Angelo of all his crimes" (74). The play shifts from revenge tragedy to miracle play. In a miracle play, "frequently a problem in contemporary life [is] solved by divine intervention" (Shipley 272). Thus Pynchon's involved game of analogies: Oedipa is to The Courier's Tragedy as readers are to Lot 49, and the sacred level of the novel, or underside or maaswerk of the tapestry, has to do with a problem in contemporary life. If a conspicuous problem in mid-sixties America was the unsolved assassination of President Kennedy (which Pynchon alludes to enthymematically), there should be some hint of miraculous solution encoded in The Courier's Tragedy.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>Pynchon highlights the curious reality that somehow the Germans whose population was decimated, whose industrial capacity was devastated, recovered to become one of the strongest economic forces on the postwar period. Conversely, the Rothschilds (Warburgs, Sasoons and others) never regained their former preeminence in European finance, as the Morgans (Drexels, Du Ponts and others) never regained theirs in the U.S. How did that happen? Loftus and Aarons, in The Secret War Against the Jews, say the combination of the stock market crash, the Great Depression, Hitler and the Second World War was too much for what I call (in "Pynchon's Inferno" and "Pynchon's Politics"<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> the Old Dynasty. [13]<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Many Thanks...

Postby Gouda » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:13 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>How ironic, then, that McCarthy and McCarthyism became bywords during the postwar period for accusing others of being traitors: McCarthy was on the side of Forrestal and the Dulles brothers...From Dulles, "both [then-Representative] Nixon and Senator Joseph McCarthy received volumes of classified information to support the charge that the Truman administration was filled with " 'pinkos' " (Loftus 222).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>In her night journey through San Francisco, Oedipa meets an old acquaintance, Jesús Arabal, a member of the CIA, "Standing not for the agency you think, but for a clandestine Mexican outfit known as the Conjuración de los Insurgentes Anarquistas, traceable back to the time of the Flores Magón Brothers and later briefly allied with Zapata" (119). Even if calling the group the CIA is a joke, mentioning Flores Magón brothers and Emiliano Zapata opens another can of historical worms, and is no joke. The Flores Magón brothers published anti-government broadsides, were clapped into prison, and eventually fled to the U.S. Zapata was an Indian land-reformer, in whose a contemporary Mexican land-reform movement in Chiapas province has recently bloc active. A populist during the early decades of this century, Zapata was betrayed and killed in 1919. In a curious mixture of religion and politics, Mexicans venerate his grave as a holy place to this day. How ironic —or cynical— it was, then, that George Bush named his CIA-front oil company Zapata Petroleum (Loftus 367-6<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> .<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Oedipa's revelations come to her from Cohen (a priest), Thoth (a god) and Jesús (the son of God). With increasing insistence, the allusions on the underside of Lot 49 use the metaphors of revelation and hierophany to point to historical figures and political conflicts. Minor players are glossed in offhand ways (Darrowlike, Beaconsfield Cigarettes). Major figures are often indicated by half-names (James and Foster, Wendell). Figures behind major international historical events like the rise and fall of empires —the Rothschilds, the Morgans, the Rockefellers— are never named outright. We have to pursue references to Thurn and Taxis, Jay Gould, Emiliano Zapata into extra-textual sources to find the biggest players. The struggles among industrial cliques and the tensions among the social philosophies they represent are the stuff of recent history, and they are what Pynchon writes about.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Implicit in Pynchon's fiction is the view that events in recent American history have led to a virtual constitutional crisis, a challenge to the supremacy of the presidency by the intelligence community<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Though it smacks of post hoc fallacy, many people —journalists, filmmakers, critics of the Warren Commission Report, maybe even J. Edgar Hoover— believed the CIA had some hand in Kennedy's assassination and the coverup. Lot 49 hints that the CIA had something to do with the assassination and the coverup. If it had, the CIA was again demonstrating that the presidency was subordinate to the CIA<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Ironically, the link between Eisenhower's struggle with the CIA and Kennedy's is Lee Harvey Oswald, history's all-time patsy...In a very short time, two presidents, a Republican and a Democrat, ran afoul of the CIA...To this day, the president has never again challenged the CIA, though the agency has made its share of egregious errors. With the election of former CIA director George Bush, the presidency and the CIA effectively merged.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Diocletian was a Roman emperor (284-305 CE) whose reign marked a change in government. Under Diocletian, local autonomy disappeared, the taxing system compulsorily tied the country people to the land, the Senate became weak and ineffective, the army grew much larger and stronger, and the mercantile class was taxed to the limit. Diocletian established a military dictatorship.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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