is this mess possibly what people want?

by **mingy** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:35 pm

how to explain the mess? how to explain why people, warned against the power of the corporation to put an end to the american dream by making unlimited fortunes again possible, warned by jefferson and lincoln, did nothing? how to explain why people were unappalled - for a century - by the rise of extreme overpay/overpower in a democratic country dedicated to the end of tyranny? how to explain the lack of outrage at the bush gang, who are the perfection of corruption and undemocracy? how to explain the lack of response to eisenhower's warning against the industrial-military complex? how to explain the general lack of knowledge of, and interest in, a u.s. senate committee finding in the 1950's that big business was even then more powerful than the u.s. govt? how to explain the lack of interest in the role of prohibition of entail and primogeniture and fixing of clergy salaries, immediately after the signing of the declaration, in the protection of liberties? how to explain the enormous, endless, century-after-century interest in the details of corruption and abuse of overpower, and so little interest in destroying the means of corruption? how to explain the 38% support of the bush gang? how to explain the lack of interest in, and the closed-ear resistance to, a plan to restore the american dream by restoring the limitation of fortunes designed and intended by jefferson? how to explain the lack of interest in the supremo, overarching-everything fact that payrates for 100 hours' work in this world range from $1 to $1,000,000,000 ? how to explain that, if a govt decided to take most income off most people and give it all to the remaining few, everyone would know that was superdumb and superdangerous and would cause superviolence, and yet no one is against that being, as it is, the way things are? how to explain the fact that everyone is rather against any talk of changing the present situation, in which 1% are paid more than the average and are paid up to a million times the average, and 90% are paid between a 10th and a 1000th of the average? how to explain the 100 years it took to get people to accept seatbelts? how to explain the lack of outrage at ford putting out the pinto, knowing it would incinerate in a rear-end collision? how to explain the lack of interest in peace plans? is it possible that people love mess, the bigger the better? where there is a will, there is a way? if that is so, then there has been a will to this supermess why would people want a maximisation of mess? is war and superpoverty and the paranoia and danger of overpower super fun? did stalin have fun? is it super fun to be able to point to someone else as being in the wrong? look how much fun it is, for so many, to see a rambo movie look how popular a nazi film is look how popular action movies, horror movies, thriller movies are are we in fact immune to fear of suffering and death, and are really interested only in life having a 'good story'? why are so many millions of people willing to go to places where bits of metal are flying around at great speeds? why does anyone remain in beirut, or london during the blitz? why do lions skedaddle the instant it becomes clear they are going to get the worst of an encounter?

by **Project Willow** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:57 pm

Despite your list of inequities, a large segment of this population is actually pretty comfortable. People have homes, cars, and mega stores to shop at. There isn't mass starvation, dislocation and/or continual food/housing/water insecurity (Katrina excepted). The majority of people will not act in response to a concept, idea, or outline of injustice. They will not act until a problem effects them in a personal and extremely destructive way. Throughout history humans have put up with much worse for much longer periods of time. The ruling elite know this and use it to their advantage. The labor/socialist movements of the late 19th and early 20th centuries taught them a lesson, pay off enough of the population to create a stable middle class, keep them happy, and they'll act as a buffer against the poor. Perhaps the decendents of the elite have forgotten the lesson, or maybe they just don't care.

by **RollickHooper** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:03 pm

Heh--"mingy" The folks over at www.psychohistory.com have figured all this out, and claim that some of this is our inner child wanting to be punished, or something like that. I do think that a lot of weird human behavior can be explained by how we were or weren't mistreated in childhood, but some of this "group fantasy" stuff they talk about is a bit hard to swallow. You should check it out, but use your own judgment--

by **mingy** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:39 am

how comfortable can they be when they know that their president, the so-called most powerful person in the world, can be assassinated ? how comfortable can they be knowing that 50% of americans have less than $2000 equity - which means that about 30% have less than nothing? how comfortable can they be knowing that the comfortable ones are sitting on the necks of the poor in america, and america is sitting on the slavery of 90% of humanity? while there is enough for every family in the world to have $50,000 a year? - while, if no one was paid more than they contribute to the social pool of wealth, every couple would be millionaires on retirement by saving 2/5ths of their income? knowing that taking most income off most people would make for humungous violence, which would devastate everyone's comfort, and knowing that that is the case, knowing that most income is taken off most people, knowing that 90% of world income goes to the overpaid, overpowerful, nonearners, how could they be comfortable? seeing every day the effects of this $45 trillion a year theft, the carjackings, skyjackings, riots, bombings, suicidebombings, unibombings, the civil wars, the 9/11s, the firestorming of 67 japanese cities, the murder of 60 million russians, of 6 million jews, the world wars, the street crime, the ghettos, the slums, the revolutions, the torture, the rampant cia, the vietnams, the afghanistans, the my lais, the killing fields, the one million bomb craters in the rice fields of vietnam, the hitlers, idi amins, pol pots, the massacres, plots, spies - are these things comforting? are these things reassuring? knowing that the more you have, the more you are under attack from those who have less; knowing that however much you have, you are under attack from those who have more and more power to steal yours, knowing that there is no safety anywhere along the line from greatest underpay to greatest overpay, that everywhere along that line is danger from everyone for everyone? knowing that if pay was proportional to work, money and power would be so evenly spread that all would be comfortable, all would be free from attack from others; everyone maximally comfortable, there would be least incitation to robbery of others, least power over others, how is anyone comfortable at the almost infinitely opposite extreme? knowing that if they stole the whole cake, they would simply be under attack from everyone, with no peace to eat any cake, how can people think grabbing as much as possible can be a happiness strategy? either we are witless, or we love mess and mayhem; and we arent witless what could be more extremely destructive than what americans are suffering today? - destructive of peace of mind, destructive of hope and confidence, destructive of sanity? i have often thought it was odd people saying: ive put up with as much of this as i am going to take - why did they go to their limit of suffering before drawing a line? why did they take any of it? and hey, rollickhooper, thanks for the link, but i think a few words of psychobabble are not going to feed the lion of this question if it is the power of denial, it is still a question: why is there denial? if it is masochism, it is still the question: why is there masochism? what happened to the pursuit of happiness? happiness = good times, laughter, peace, pleasure, safety, all the good things if everyone is so happy when the war is over, why are people not interested in preventing wars starting? knowing that money injustice is the cause of the continual outbreaks of violence of all sorts, why do people not regard justice as their best friend? instead they think justice is a pain, they think justice is going to cost them, they think it is going to diminish their happiness - justice has a bad name - where/how did it get it? it is beyond the power of occurring to people that justice will deliver the good things maybe something in the human nature, as soon as it looks as tho the wise ones are saying x, the people have to believe the opposite and never falter what would happen if the wise ones starting promoting injustice, unfortitude, intemperance, and unwisdom? the people would not be perverse then, they would say the wise were wrong! [but the people would not then start acting on their belief that justice etc were right!] heehee, the human comedy; smash everything, and when everything is smashed, build some things and smash 'em

by **AnnaLivia** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:59 pm

well, this mess is not what I want. geebus, what if reincarnation is TRUE? i don't want to come back to this mess, so i figure that i'd better get busy and get it cleaned up now. i can't guarantee the results i want, but i can sure as hell guarantee i will never quit working on the problem, focusing like a lazer on the root of troubles.

by **Starman** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:12 pm

Heyia all; I found this quite-topical article discussing the enormous wealth-disparity in the US in the context of the Republican's stubborn priority on eliminating estate taxes -- despite the enormous unfunded National Debt and now the incredible destruction of the Katrina disaster, with its anticipated public costs of over a hundred billion dollars. The Republican's HAVE no domestic policy but cutting costs of social programs and services, and reducing investment in public infrastructure while throwing several hundred billion dollars secured by future working-class IOUs to fund a disasterous unwinnable Middle East War (which is really just a Defense Industry and Pentagon Public Works project geared to destruction (unlike Roosevelt's WPA construction program) and cutting taxes, especially for their well-heeled constituency who have LEAST need of such perks than anybody. And so the Republicans keep banging away at their spendthrift, wholly irresponsible policies diverting wealth into tighter and righter hands, consolidating the power and influence of wealth in an especially virulent, mercenary form of overmature capitalism, sacrificing communities and individuals in the quest for maximizing profits, cutting the bottom line by eliminating workforces and modestly profitable businesses and paying multi-billion-dollar bonues and stock-options to cuthroat Executives instead. And still the Republicans (with complicity of their thoroughly compromised, gutless sold-out Democratic partners) push their massive bottom-up wealth redistributuin schemes, despite Katrina having provided a belated wakeup call to slumbering middle America about the festering resentments and contradictions that lie just below the surface of the Great Society Myth, by which inner-city slums hide the reality of institutionalized poverty that decades of hypocritical Equal Rights and Equal Opportunity rhetoric hasn't put a dent in -- and which decades of bogus Washington DC trickle-down voodoo-economics under Republican-led programs of kickbacks and currying-favors, corporate dealmaking and pilfering the Treasury, Political paybacks and double-book accounting have made worse, actually increasing wealth disparity and adding tens of millions more to those living below-poverty levels. Eliminating the wastefulness, contradictions and abuses of grossly excess wealth will be a major project, given the consolidation of government and even legal power in the hands of the fantastically wealthy -- and the meticulously-crafted social institutions of law enforcement, foreign policy, legal and political systems that are oriented towards protecting property rights and the status-quo as a higher priority than civil and human rights. As is plain to those who have sought a deeper, more genuine awareness beneath the mass-media and Public Relations surface-patina of what is 'real', the boundary between crime and lawfulness has been eroding under generations of assaults by the priveleges and prerequisites of power and wealth, in which society's elites have acted above the law and exploited protected opportunities unavailable to the 'common' people -- as we've seen with the Bush's and Rockefellers, the Hunts and Morgans, and hundreds of huge corporations that now infect public policy and have essentially coopted National, state and even many local Governments. To discover our options and potentials for how to reform our society that truly promotes social justice and fairly-distributed wealth-equity, in which laws protect those most vulnerable and weak and NOT used as the refugee of scoundrels and the the wealth-power elites, we need to create and participate in public forums for our continuing self-teaching, organization and self-empowerment. For our society has indeed been subverted by the enemies of genuine democracy and liberty and rights. Peaceful, positive change IS possible -- but it's up to us to see and spread the light. That's not to ignore the despair and cynicism I feel, and that I know many people feel. It's hard to believe there will be a 'good' outcome when America's Karmic debt must truly be huge, and so much of the public is SO out of touch, they don't have a clue that America is NOT the model of human rights and justice they have been conditioned to believe. It's going to a hard, rude awakening for people so braindead and deluded. I don't think there will be any 'easy' answers. Starman <a href="http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/006847.html#more">www.blogforamerica.com/ar....html#more</a> Paul Allen's Other Yacht Paul Rogat Loeb is the author of The Impossible Will Take a Little While: A Citizen's Guide to Hope in a Time of Fear and of Soul of a Citizen: Living With Conviction in a Cynical Time. See www.paulloeb.org for more information. In the wake of the New Orleans disaster, I thought of an article I read about Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen's other yacht. The 300-foot Tatoosh carries a 30-person crew, two helicopters, a swimming pool, a spa, a private movie theater, six other surface boats (including a separate 54-foot racing yacht and two Hobie catamarans) and a submarine. Reading about the Tatoosh and a third yacht just slightly smaller made me wonder about Allen's yacht of choice. Did it have two swimming pools? Four helicopters? Twelve other on-board boats? And what was Allen doing with two yachts, when he could only ride on one at a time? Allen bought the Tatoosh in 2000, when it was America's second largest. Three years later, he added the Octopus (aptly named for a Microsoft man), enabling him to leapfrog the founder of Victoria's Secret to own the largest yacht in the world. Itself since surpassed by the yachts of Oracle founder Larry Ellison and the ruler of Dubai, the Octopus is 413 feet long, with seven decks, a 60-person crew including several former Navy SEALs, seven other on-board boats, a basketball court, the obligatory movie theater and swimming pool (just one?), and two submarines, one of which can stay two weeks on the ocean floor. Allen also owns a third megayacht it turns out, plus two personal Boeing 757's, in case one is in the shop. We know Allen is unimaginably rich, so maybe his yacht collection comes as no surprise. But the Republicans are talking about permanently ending the estate tax in the new Congressional session. Our leaders are already lavishing more and more gifts on those who already have more than they can ever use, even in the midst of crises from the Iraq War to the New Orleans disaster, to the shifts in global warming that, by warming the ocean, turned a routine hurricane into a cataclysmic one. Allen's yachts remind me of our choices about what we value. As former Congressman Ron Dellums once said, you can tell a nation's soul by the state of its budgets. Time and again we have the chance to house people, feed them, give them health care, affordable education, and a decent chance in life. Or to invest in renewable technologies to head off future climate-related catastrophes. Or at least to rebuild critical infrastructure and restore dignified lives to the wounded and displaced when tragedy hits. Each time we're told we don't have enough resources. Yet in the richest country in human history, we make it a point, at every turn, to help those of vast wealth accumulate more and more. Recently I saw a $3 million Brentwood house being torn down so someone could build one on the same lot worth twenty million. I've seen comparable extravagance throughout the country, combined with massive cuts in practically every program that serves the needs of ordinary citizens. The super-rich get infinite breaks with nothing asked in return, while more and more Americans struggle just to survive, even in the absence of unexpected cataclysm. The proponents of ending the estate tax warn of devastated small farmers and businessmen, though they can't come up with a single case of a family farm that's gone under in recent years as a direct result, and the handful of affected family businesses could be addressed with modest increases in the exemption level. Evidently it's far more salable to couch these and other regressive cuts with salt-of-the-earth images than those of Paul Allen on his yacht or Paris Hilton in her gilded video playpen. We might remember Dwight Eisenhower's famed words: "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in a final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed—those who are cold and not clothed." So is each massive regressive tax break. Permanently ending the estate tax will cost the public another trillion dollars over ten years. But we were already making things far worse before the ending of the estate tax. The top 5% of Americans now get $110 billion a year from Bush's tax cuts, with most going to the top 1%, during a reign that's cut child abuse prevention, community policing, AmeriCorps, low-income childcare, health care, housing, and even support for military families. Because payment of Social Security taxes is capped at $90,000, and because capital gains taxes have been cut to a maximum of 15%, self-employed carpenters making $30,000 a year already pay a higher percentage of their income than do Paul Allen and his co-founder Bill Gates. In Seattle, where I live (and in whose suburbs Allen and Gates reside), the public paid $300 million to subsidize a football stadium for a team Allen owns, and the City Council has just allocated $50 million to fund a mile-long streetcar connecting downtown with Allen's cluster of biotech companies. Meanwhile the high school my son attends recently had to lay off 11 teachers. We should debate where our government should spend the revenue it takes in. But we also need to discuss where it gets this revenue, and how to share the burden equitably. As Bill Gates Senior wrote, in opposing the estate tax repeal, ?Our society has facilitated wealth-building by creating order, protecting freedom, creating laws to govern property relations and our marketplace, and investing in an educated work force. What's wrong with the most successful people putting one-quarter of their wealth back into the place that made their wealth and success possible?? That's one key argument: those who have the most benefit infinitely more from the institutions of our society than do those who have far less. The other argument is the concept of enough, where we question whether our most important social priority really is to do everything possible to enable a tiny few to buy as many yachts and $20 million houses as they please. Do we really need to help Allen be able to fly 500 of his closest personal friends wherever and whenever he chooses on his two 757s? We might remember that there are more important goals to support with common resources, and more important things to live for. —Paul Loeb

by **mingy** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:23 pm

it may be easy to fall into the trap of feeling comfortable by comparing oneself to 'republicans' - [and how far THAT word has got from reality] - republicans are SO bad, its easy to be good - by comparison but how right are liberals [i mean liberals in the oldfashioned, good sense]? this piece starman quotes from paul loeb - what of reality is missing? - what better arguments are there than 'more for the underpaid because it's nice, because it's kind, because it damages a nation's selfportrait'? better arguments: do it because the globe cannot survive the pressure of so great inequity - pay for 100 hours' work from $1 to $1,000,000,000! - do it because the inequity has driven war and weaponry to the present point of brink of extinction, the present point of screaming engine racing to the lemming cliff for humanity - soon [dont brush this out of your mind - fight to push it INTO your mind and thought, if you dislike misery and death] do it because overpay of $1,000,000,000 a fortnight is supertyranny, the complete pseudification of democracy, the complete gutting of democracy, of freedom, of the american dream, the total impossibilisation of a good life - the complete opposite of liberty, equality and fraternity - the complete opposite of government in any positive sense, the screaming extreme opposite of faith, decency, quality of life, survival - the screaming extreme opposite of love, community, patriotism, sanity and sense do it because the superunderpay generated by superoverpay generates a degree of anger, violence, desperation, madness, ignorance, hatred, that the quality of life of every person on earth without exception is seriously damaged, shattered, pulverised - every person living 'afghanistans of the heart' [how do you feel about belonging to a species with 9/11 on its record?] do it because there is not one person on the planet who would run a business paying employees very different pays for the same work do it because there is not one person who can feel any pride in their accomplishments as long as we accept the present chaos and universal accelerated suffering as normal, as [shrug] okay do it because a filthy house is shameful do it because you want to be happy do it because you are not mad, and therefore you shouldnt participate in mad behaviour do it because there is not one unshameful argument anyone could come up with to justify satisfying the billionth desire of one person before satisfying the first desire of 50 million human beings a year - to have enough food to prevent death do it because life CAN be worth living - but not like this

by **thrulookingglass** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:38 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the poor always been marginalized and stepped on? I think Jesus had a few things to say about the corruption that follows wealth. Why do people still suffer under horrific financial situations? It's the nature of the system. Those in power and of wealth (the two are interchangeable) aren't going to "hand it over". It will most likely need to be pried from their hands. Why don't people rise up? To few are awake. To few see the chains that globalist/nationalist pseudo-capitalism creates. Moreover, people feel powerless in their ability to create change from such a deeply seeded system (try standing on a corner and shouting of the tyranny inherent in "capitalist" systems.) The system of repressing ideas of equity and principled forms of monetary distribution is well fashioned and effective in ensuring those who are in power remain in power. Don't look for blame. Democrat/Republican - there are more than two political parties in America. This is a matter again of controlling thought. There used to be an effective socialist movement, a labor movement in America (now there's something you don't hear about too often?!) It is simple; if you pose a threat to power you are eliminated, ostracized and marginalized. To debate the current forms of economic control is needless. The results of monetary inequity are visible by stepping outside.

by **AnnaLivia** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:33 pm

quote mingy: "do it because the superunderpay generated by superoverpay generates a degree of anger, violence, desperation, madness, ignorance, hatred, that the quality of life of every person on earth without exception is seriously damaged, shattered, pulverised - every person living 'afghanistans of the heart' " Maybe the truth is that we are all Little Gods…telling ourselves lies, pretending that we aren’t, laughing at our own charade…while secretly sure that we go on forever so it’s all just a game and nothing really matters. But immortals or not, I still see no reason to sit around in an unhappy mess while we’re here.

by **mingy** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:13 am

point one, thrulookingglass: the superrich/superpowerful have never stayed in power - history shows what 'common' sense would indicate [if common sense was common]: the attacks on wealth are proportional to the size of the wealth - this is the fatal weakness of superwealth/superpower - it is a tragedy, an error, a mistaken path of happiness - uneasy lies the head that wears the crown - money is allgood, is all necessities and millions of pleasures, so the lack of it is extremely stimulating, and the overplus of it is extremely attractive...so, greatest moneyheaps are most attacked; the higher they are, the faster they fall - x servants, x2 enemies - look at the wars in the 30s among the organised crime gangs - look at the attacks on america - both the poverty of sicily and the wealth of america made america the supervictim - the mafia now bigger than the 5 biggest corporations in america - america HAD to be conquered by sicily - because sicily was poorest and america was richest [or at least the richest in america were richest] - so defense costs in america were highest, so america got poorer fastest - america has to pay to defend itself against the whole world! - look at the plutocracy of france - being the most powerful didnt stop the people from chopping their heads off - what was the internal cost to america of the mafia fighting their way up from the bottom to the top? the decades of injuries, the crime investigation, the laws, the courts, the witness protection, the fbi? [to say nothing of the cost of having to give the fbi so much power they become the enemy] look at ceausescu of rumania - the secret police of a nation couldnt keep him safe - why? because of the constant pressure of his superwealth and the superpoverty of the rumanians - and he has to waste his life studying security, closing cracks in his defenses - he has to either pay his defenders so much they come to be rival powers, or pay them little and have them turn against him - which was what happened same paradigm with slavery - you have to either make them strong and educated in order for them to serve you well, in which case they get the tools to bring you down, or you have to keep them down with whips and chains and cruelty, which lowers their production and hastens their rebellion - economists have shown that the south lost the amer. civil war because they were less financial - a slave economy is way secondbest - we have a slave economy on this planet, with 90% getting less than a 10th of the average - its a lose-lose situation - a make-dynamite situation the poorest have always combined in mafias and triads and the survivors become the toughest meanest swiftest killers, and therefore won all their battles against all the higher levels of society - the higher the softer, because wealth makes soft - till they reached the top every superpoverty in the world is training the toughest meanest swiftest fighters who must conquer every higher softer level - now it is the drug lords of south america - the mafia are getting soft, their sons go to harvard - and the new superpoor conquer them - pity the conquerors, they have their work cut out for them - look at south africa, the decades of hard work the whites had to do to stay on top - and lose in the end, with certainty, with inevitability look at the roman empire - getting so soft in the end, it hired goths and vandals to do their fighting - in the end, their emperors lasting a matter of days before being replaced point two: the rich are not going to hand it over - of course not - [altho some of them are not unaware of reality] but they are in a great minority - 1% - and only a tiny fraction of that 1% are superpowerful - 99% of that 1% are getting, like, no more than 10 times the average - why dont people rise up? - they dont have clear and adequate ideas - partly because the powerful have kept christians illiterate for most of the last 2000 years, let alone economically literate - partly because it is harder to get 99% determined and clear and strong in their will, partly because people are more easygoing, partly because nature makes us tend to accept and trust the world as it is to be right, altho we have left nature with division of labour, and exchange, with its terribly damaging sideeffect, the ceaseless drift of money from earners to nonearners too few are awake - too few are clear - altho you would think that payrates from $1 to $1,000,000,000 per 100 hours' work would scream loud enough for everyone to get the point in a second - if you pose a threat to power you are eliminated - yes - but this plan proposes to work by grassroots, wordofmouth, organisationless, leaderless clarification of the general human will - when enough KNOW that equity is good, the opposite will is too weak to survive - ants eat buffalo - when cats and rabbits KNOW about traffic and impact and injuries, cat and rabbit deaths in traffic cease 'overnight' - the humungous misery caused by inequity for 1000s of years has not got illiterate people to this point of clear and doubtless knowing, but the imminent threat of extinction may be stimulating - i fear that humanity has suffered so much for so long without hope of change, that it has lost the will to live - why did ben. franklin say 90% of people were suicides? - but while there is life there is right work but fail or win, i know that striving to the right goal is already a happiness - just to know the right way to move - even if it may be too late to get there - which allows one the freedom to work confidently, stride boldly, instead of being stuck, is a great happiness in the 19th c, overpower robbed too much from the many, and trade unions were born, and henry ford led the world into the 20th c policy of high wages [the worker is the customer] - for centuries the third world has been plundered, and in the 21st c, the third world countries will organise, more and more successfully, and then plunder and enslave the first world - the third world, underpaid and overworked, is training for toughness and strength, while the first world is softening with over-ease - the third world is gaining 10% more of world wealth every decade - will reach 80% of world wealth around 2050 - and they wont stop there - the moral is, you cannot enjoy unless all enjoy - for the underpaid, the enslaved are [naturally, righteously] vengeful - the conqueror's faith in the mouseyness of the conquered has never been supported by history - the proud are humbled, the humble are 'prouded' - the tall are tumbled, the grass rises high - crests become troughs, troughs become crests - a rough sea for all, until we counter the automatic drift of money from earners to nonearners with a general will to do so, and a few simple laws pay from $1 to $1,000,000,000 for the same amount of work is supersupersuperstupid! supersupersuperdamaging!! there isnt one person on the planet who would think of basing a society on such a payrange!!! so everyone already agrees! - so think it thru! - clarify your own will to do your own will!!! - you wouldnt have two employees and pay one a billion times as much per hour as the other!!!! how bad would pay equity be? it would be a little unfair - but a billionth as unfair as now, a billionth the violence, a billionth of the chance of us using the atomic bombs, which will lower world temperature 25 degrees - an ice age is only 8 degrees if you are so fond of inequity/violence, lower the inequity from a factor of 1,000,000,000 to a factor of 1,000 - and have a millionth the violence forget guilt - work your brain to get out of this supersupersupermess - you're not wrong - the poor have always been stepped on - but it has made them stronger and strongest, till they have conquered - and become softer till they were conquered money is good, it is noble, it is spiritual, when selfearned - but overpay, having others' earnings, is danger, misery, waste and annihilation there is enough money to pay every family in the world US$50,000 a year! could that be bad? could that be anything but a calm sea for all to sail on? no poverty to fear and fall into - no overpower to loot and destroy we can clarify the will of 8 billion people in just 33 months if everyone who learns this clarification teaches it to just one person a month!!! it is doable! the big error is that people think unlimited wealth is good for them - but it is like pulling treacle up from a pot with a spoon, the higher the spoon goes, the lower the treacle level in the pot goes - because we have overpay to one million times the average, we have 90% on between a 10th and a 1000th [!!!!!!!!!] of the average - madness! folly unlimited!! masochism unlimited www.globalhappiness.org [not an org] - the only place you will get reality, as far as i know sure, thought is controlled - get free - get your feet on a solid road btw, socialism is loved and promoted by the superrich - it means control by superpower - tyranny - capitalism with limitation of fortunes is democratic capitalism, sustainable capitalism, freemarket capitalism, capitalism for all, not the few - and it is jeffersonian capitalism, american dream capitalism, land of the free capitalism and bless you, annalivia

by **AnnaLivia** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:45 am

for some strange reason, mingy, i suddenly feel like drinking champagne...with the whole world. and how right you are...just knowing the right way to move is great happiness and joy, and brings ever-increasing strength. cheers and namaste, mingman yr th bst

by **thrulookingglass** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:23 pm

I hate to do this and move this thread up (mostly because it has run its course), but the point by point decimination, c'mon. "the superrich/superpowerful have never stayed in power" Ah yes, the Rockefellers, the Rothchilds, the Kennedys, Bushs where are they now? 'Course "stayed in power", yeah i suppose nothing is eternal. The mafia?! You mean that criminal organization supported and refined by US intelligence forces such as the CIA and OSS? Fighting their way up from the bottom?! I don't think so. Ceausescu? Romania?! I believe there is evidence that shows his downfall was greatly do to international conspiracy rather than a swell of concern from the populace. Slavery?! Perhaps you saw some of the footage from the Katrina disaster. Yes, thank god the slaves have risen up and reclaimed their freedom. "kept christians illiterate" - good thing the Jews, budhists, hindus, athesist, etc aren't a victim of this conspiracy! "money is good" - thanks Mr. Gecco, your underpaid, overworked, healthcareless chaufer awaits you. Democratic capitalism?! Oh the irony!

by **mingy** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:52 pm

miscommunication the point by point decimination, c'mon? what is this? it sounds as if you felt yourself attacked - i was just making some points trying to communicate nice sarcasm on the rockefeller etc thing - there are always [until we get smart and prohibit overpay/overpower] overpowerful in power, but they change - you accept that, since money/power is very desirable to all, the most overpaid attract attack most? - from other rich, from the middle class from the underpaid? - that the list of the superpowerful - the not-so-bad and the bloody-awful - who have fallen is very long? - you could pull 1000s of names, dynasties, emperors, kings, bandits who have fallen? - the survival of a name [rockefeller etc] does not necessarily mean the survival of an ethic or ruling style - sons are not carboncopies of fathers - there are internal differences of opinion in dynasties etc the mafia not fighting their way up from the bottom? - they came from sicily relatively poor, didnt they? and fought their way over the dead bodies of rival gangs, of cops and decent people who opposed them? ceausescu - and if it was international conspiracy, what is that but rival powers attacking him? - and did an oppressed people do nothing? - the international groups had to contact someone local, didnt they? - ceausescu's underlings who were sick of him, feared danger from him, or someone? money is good is contrary to democratic capitalism? - if money is exchangable for goos and other good things, money is good, isnt it? - if all get money in proportion to their contribution to society by their work, that is democratic, isnt it? as opposed to very inequitous distribution of rewards, which confines power to few instead of spread among many? where is the irony? money is good means underpay? - no - 'money is good therefore more money, even when it is overpay, is good' means underpay, violence and extinction

is this mess possibly what people want?

is this mess possibly what people want?

Re: is this mess possibly what people want?

Re: is this mess possibly what people want?

people comfortable

Re: people comfortable

The Poison of Uberwealth and Theft of a Nation's Treasure

reality check for liberals

Re: We are all guilty.

do it

fallacies of defeatism

globally happy!

Re: defeatism?

reply thrulookingglass

Who is online