Hoekstra: 'There will be another attack' - Deutch to blame

by **proldic** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:52 pm

THE GRAND RAPIDS PRESS Tuesday, September 13, 2005 Hoekstra to Economic Club: 'There will be another attack' By STEVEN HARMON GRAND RAPIDS -- The United States will get attacked by terrorists again, leaving hundreds, perhaps thousands, dead, U.S. Rep. Pete Hoekstra predicted Monday. And, referring to Hurricane Katrina, Hoekstra said the federal government should not be expected to respond to disasters quicker than 24 to 48 hours. "I fully believe there will be another attack," he said. "The question we'll have to answer on that day is 'did we do everything possible to prevent everything from the beginning?' You can lessen the risks, but you can't eliminate the risks posed by terrorists." Hoekstra, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, was speaking on terrorism and intelligence at the Grand Rapids Economic Club luncheon at the Amway Grand Plaza Hotel. Later, he elaborated on how quickly the federal government will respond to new disasters. "The way we plan for disasters has to recognize first responders will carry the brunt of it in the first 24 to 48 hours of an attack," he said. "When the planes hit the World Trade Center, the people who responded were the New York police and firefighters. It was not possible for us to get federal troops there in time. It's why we're investing billions to upgrade the capabilities of the first responders." Hoekstra's comments come on the heels of criticism aimed at President Bush over his administration's slow response to Hurricane Katrina. Republicans have defended him, saying local and state responders failed in their responsibilities to evacuate New Orleans residents from the oncoming storm. The key to preventing an attack is changing the culture of the intelligence community, Hoekstra said. Hoekstra blamed intelligence blunders leading to 9/11 on the "Deutch Doctrine." It's named after John Deutch, the CIA director from 1995-96 who ordered the CIA to cut ties with unsavory contacts. "In the mid-90s, we didn't understand the threats or the new rules of the game," he said. "Deutch's doctrine was, as you're recruiting folks, they can't have a criminal record or a human rights record. They've got to be clean. If they're an Eagle Scout, that will help. "The end result was it put a chilling effect on our ability to recruit the kind of people who will give us information that would have helped us in 2001," Hoekstra said. "Imagine the chilling effect it had on folks directly on our payroll, but also on those we cut off. They couldn't go back to their old folks because they'd been selling them out. That spread throughout the world." With those contacts cut off, the United States went into 2001 "relatively blind," Hoekstra said. Congress, the president and oversight subcommittees shared the responsibility, he said. Policy decisions put more reliance on electronic spying and cut back human resources. "And you can see where we ended up," Hoekstra said. "We paid the price. We knew exactly what was going on and sat on our hands and didn't do anything to change it." mlive.com

by **dbeach** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:03 pm

"The United States will get attacked by terrorists again, leaving hundreds, perhaps thousands, dead, U.S. Rep. Pete Hoekstra predicted Monday. And, referring to Hurricane Katrina, Hoekstra said the federal government should not be expected to respond to disasters quicker than 24 to 48 hours. '" HOW DOES HE KNOW?? I am calling my congressman and saying maybe Huckster Hoekstra needs an FBI interview

by **antiaristo** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:41 pm

"When the planes hit the World Trade Center, the people who responded were the New York police and firefighters. It was not possible for us to get federal troops there in time. It's why we're investing billions to upgrade the capabilities of the first responders." Well, we know that is a lie, don't we? Can you get your man to make an issue of this, dbeach? I thought everyone knew that FEMA was positioned in NYC on 10 September 2001

by **proldic** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:53 pm

The FEMA 9/11 pre-positioning debate is illustrative of how deep this disinfo really goes. The claim was first made based on the interview w/ the firefighter from CC. Then there was the giant Snopes-like debunking, which everyone accepted, including many in the 9/11 movement, like Ruppert who gave it a very particular spin. Then it comes out, but after-the-debate dust has settled, via WNYW's coverage of Guliani's testimony, and the comments he made about the command center being already in place, that in fact they were there. But the dominant meme that took hold was that it had been debunked. Also I wonder if any (non-Ruppertarians) see anything in relation to the Deutch comment, does this add to the Ruppert puzzle?

by **hanshan** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:01 pm

dbeach - he's advertising & fearmongering simultaneously antiaristo - yeah everybody did know; well maybe not everybody proldic- The Deutch reference by Hoekstra is merely an attempt to shift blame to Clinton & the Dems. The systems failure cited happened under Stansfield Turner, decimating human intelligence gathering. Ruppert spin? Must have missed it. Have to sift his pronouncements anyways. ...

by **dbeach** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:56 pm

"Can you get your man to make an issue of this, dbeach?" ANTI congres is either in on the gig or so scared as to be useless..eitehr way congress is useless BUT making noise is a specilaity for many..let the congres know that some citizens are noyt buying the bush lies 9/11 and Katrina ..the gifts that keep on giving to the illustrious elites

by **proldic** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:14 pm

" The systems failure cited happened under Stansfield Turner, decimating human intelligence gathering." You seem lyrical or purposefully cryptic to me sometimes, so I need to ask: do you really believe that Turner's firings decimated human intelligence gathering? Clinically? Further, should I be getting some sort of value judgement out of the way you phrased it? This may spur me to post about some intense experiences I had after 9/11, which started with me noticing James Baker saying the exact same phrase you did, being cited approvingly by a "son of", Carl Colby, Jr. in a truly frightening, fawning Roger Steffans interview in his reggae-world music magazine The Beat, mockingly dismissing the idea of a conspiracy around the murder of Bob Marley's human body. Ah, the Ruppert thing. First I should say I was an early promoter of his. Second it is obvious from evidence I have, video tapes of lectures and stuff pre 9/11, that his credibility was there (or was being built up -- which is not totally impossible) -- even if he was politically "limited" in some ways -- previous to 9/11 regarding CIA crack, drug economy. I, mean here's this ex-cop, backing Webb, he's going head-to-head, he checks out it seemed at the time. What I don't think I gave as much credence to then, as I do now, was delving too much into questioning his alter-personality, his base story about his ex-girlfriend (which always seemed...well something to me), and this sense I had of his essential vulnerability. At the time I chalked up any doubts to activist pragmatism, his cop-heritage, and his alcoholic personality. And there were the real gatekeeping attacks, not just from Corn, but from a few dedicated others, like that A-Infos Radio guy up there in Canada who really took him on -- him especially w/ the Vreeland thing. And I remember that original Malcontent X piece, if you remember it, being pretty groundbreaking, in that regard. Oh yeah, that Vreeland thing might have been the first clear sign for me that he was not all 100% steady. And I remember hearing his KPFK debate w/ Corn where Ruppert was challenged about 9/11 conspiracy, and claimed that CIA whistleblower David MacMichael told him that Corn was a CIA fake, and Corn went ballistic and challenged Ruppert to bring him on, saying "I'm a close friend of his". Did anything ever come out of that? Did MacMichael ever say one way or the other? By the time he went PO, his cred was already pretty short w/ me, although back then I was probably so relieved he wasn't espousing no-penatgon plane, I wasn't so prioritizing that worry. By the time the wargames meme came around, I realized that if he was a deep deep something, he was not for that crowd, he was meant for a more sophisticated spin (again, not something unheard of). The FEMA thing is, as you mention, one of many dubious things he's written that needs to be sifted through. He really tried to continue the dismissal of the FEMA-In NY meme in this sort of off-handed way, after he'd been claiming it was a red herring, concentrating more on parsing the pro-conspiracy argument, while ignoring the day's biggest news: that the de-bunking was de-bunked. And then his Webb-not-murdered rush-to-judgement. Now, as far as his famous, no -- epochal -- confrontation with Deutch being backed up by the people of LA, I still can't watch it without getting chills down my spine. Imagine where I'd be at (where I am) if I now believe that was probably one of the most intense political stunts ever scripted (and filmed). Well, it may be true, I may be there, not sure yet. I'm more cynical now, that's for sure. Besides the whole event itself seeming so un-real, with the bodyguard looking all nervous going behind the curtain, what then caused me to pause, and now sticks in my craw, was his citation of the programs as in "Mr. Deutch, are you aware of...". I remember him rattling off the names, one was Project Megidio. Any body got the tape and can look-see? Project Megidio seemed to me to be a false lead... I mean, would Brian Lamb of C-Span, who's so obviously in an intimate dance with the establishment, have run these hearings if there wasn't an ok from higher up? So processing it now is tough. And I won't even go to the "well, look at what he's espousing now" topic, or his depop-speech at the Club, as that's been argued about, and although it means something (alot) to me for evaluating him, I know it's not enough to hang my Ruppert hat on. Or is it?

by **chiggerbit** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:13 pm

Sorry, don't mean to get off topic, but Turner's wife was killed in a plane crash in Costa Rica, and Turner himself was injured. Any inside info on that? <a href="http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/ekturner02.htm">www.arlingtoncemetery.net/ekturner02.htm</a>

by **dbeach** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:07 pm

lots of mysterious lane crashes since 11/22/63

by **chiggerbit** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:10 pm

The reason I ask is the odd conjunction of a near-death experience of one CIA director, and the odd drowning of another--note dates of service. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Turner, 76, who headed the CIA from 1977 to 1981 under former President Jimmy Carter<hr></blockquote> and this <blockquote>Quote:<hr>WILLIAM COLBY, who has died aged 76, was director of the United States Central Intelligence Agency from 1973 to 1976.<hr></blockquote>

by **ewastud** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:59 am

If I recall correctly, I believe that Hoekstra has been implicated in the same Middle East/Neo-con corruption scandal that Wayne Madsen has been writing about. I agree with dbeach, the FBI should be grilling Mr. Hoekstra very, very extensively. If he knows of an attack, he and his GOP friends may very well be behind it all. I was just reading an interesting remark by a CIA informant named Will Northrop who is quoted in Pete Brewton's book, The Mafia, CIA, and George Bush as saying it is hard to tell where the CIA stops and the Republicans start.

by **Nymarya** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:36 am

proldic, I was always impressed with Ruppert's site (fromthewilderness), he made a lot of sense, but when he insisted so early on and so vociferously that Gary Webb's death, which to me seemed really suspicious, was suicide I began to wonder about him, not necessarily that he was in with bad guys but that maybe Webb's family and close friends had been threatened and Ruppert was trying to deflect people from hounding them about Webb's last days. I was really stunned by the Iris Chang-Gary Webb-Hunter Thompson "trifecta", three investigative journalists who had crossed BushCo, all shooting themselves. A friend who is less suspicious/paranoid than I am said why was it so hard to believe they were depressed, from the stories (or 'stories') that circulated about them; I asked why HE had trouble believing that there are ways to create depression in people. I also said "Suppose a Man in Black came to your home and told you that you had two choices: either you ate your gun, or one by one everyone you cared about would die under 'seemingly natural' circumstances until you decided to stop writing whatever it was you were writing that they didn't want you to write (I know the Bushies are vengeful but I don't believe it was just what those 3 people HAD written that got them taken out but what they might have been working on--Chang for example was writing a book on the Japanese atrocities in the Philippines which would have seriously upset BushCo's wish for Japan to repeal Article 18 by reminding the world of what happened the last time Japan expanded its military.) Anyway, since I am new to the board many of your references went over my head--Ruppert's 'alter' (some backstory I don't know?), Vreeland (I never understood that whole story), etc. Would you be willing to give me some brief background to bring me up to speed? And do you also feel Webb was probably murdered? ======= Oh, I enjoy an egg myself, yes. They don't make good pets, though; you can never get them in at night. ~Doctor Pratt (played by Peter Sellers), "The Wrong Box"

by **proldic** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:40 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Anyway, since I am new to the board many of your references went over my head--Ruppert's 'alter' (some backstory I don't know?), Vreeland (I never understood that whole story), etc. Would you be willing to give me some brief background to bring me up to speed?...<hr></blockquote> Sure, but I've got a couple of things I got to do first this a.m.. In the meantime, maybe somebody else can pipe in. I know he has lots of die-hard fans. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>...And do you also feel Webb was probably murdered?<hr></blockquote> Yes. As far as Iris Chang, I totally agree as well. In fact, I remember finding out about some really really weird events related to her murder, basically evidence of mind-control. Which brings me to see the different meanings of "murder". Anyway, scroll down to my post here: <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm11.showMessage?topicID=88.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...D=88.topic</a>

by **hanshan** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:38 pm

Is there a choice? As in mulitiples? No. Have & have had a problem w/ English expression. Spent many years in a non-Western culture & it seems to have permanently rearranged my syntax (heh). Will try to rephrase it. You've said a mouthful;am also quite busy & will work on an answer to some of your queries. Your journey re: Ruppert is interesting. later

by **Dreams End** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:53 pm

yeah, people often commit suicide with TWO SHOTS to the head...so says Ruppert. He says he saw that a lot as an LAPD officer. As for Ruppert's backstory. I LOVE the story, as a narrative or movie plot or something. It has the real ring of sophisticated games of some intelligence agency. Was Ruppert one of the players or simply a victim? I don't know. These two links will give you his version of the whole story. Short version is he found out an ex was working as a go-between for CIA to mafia. Personally, it sounded to me like she played him like a fiddle for whatever purpose she may have had. She DOES exist, as she, or someone claiming to be she, has been interviewed. Here are the links. <a href="http://www.fromthewilderness.com/about_Mike_part_one.shtml">www.fromthewilderness.com..._one.shtml</a> <a href="http://www.fromthewilderness.com/about_Mike_part_two.shtml">www.fromthewilderness.com..._two.shtml</a> As for Deutsch confrontation...Ruppert claimed in the post death article about Webb that they were good friends. I haven't seen the confrontation tape, but from what I heard, it sounded an awful lot as if he was simply co-opting Webb's stuff as his own. proldice, you've seen the tape, I guess, so you might know differently. In any event, Ruppert got famous and established because of it while Webb got fired and dead. Make of that what you want. These games really do get very sophisticated. Of course, my definition of sophisticated is that I can't understand them...that may not be much in the way of "proof." But I continually marvel as I unravel one or another set of relationships and connections in elaborate disinfo games that seem WAY more elaborate than the situation calls for. Clearly, I don't fully understand what the "situation" is, in their minds, nor do I understand their strategies. One thing that may simplify some of this stuff...and I'm not claiming anyone in particular here, is that I think the Franklin Coverup stuff suggests that there are a lot of people with very compromising photos of them running around doing politics. I think this can help explain Hunter Thompson's suicide or whatever. I look forward to learning about Iris Chang...I'm ignorant of that. But I would be HIGHLY suspicious of anyone who has exposed some of this dark underbelly as committing "suicide." As for Vreeland...I don't have a link to that stuff...maybe someone else will. It's another great story. There are just so many of these guys out there who look like they are, who look like conmen but seem to have extremely sophisticated knowledge of various intelligence issues. I see this exact kind of thing, for what its worth, related to UFO material. VERY sophisticated games being played in that world.

Hoekstra: 'There will be another attack' - Deutch to blame

Hoekstra: 'There will be another attack' - Deutch to blame

Re: Hoekstra: 'There will be another attack' - Deutch to bla

Re: Hoekstra: 'There will be another attack' - Deutch to bla

Ruppert always at the center of it all

re: Hoekstra, Deutch, Ruppert

Re: re: Hoekstra, Deutch, Ruppert

Hanshan

Re: Stansfield Turner

Re: Stansfield Turner

Re: Stansfield Turner

Re: Stansfield Turner

Ruppert

Nymarya

re: lyrical /&/or/cryptic

Re: Nymarya

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