The coming conscription

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The coming conscription

Postby heath7 » Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:39 pm

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050612/pl_afp/usiraqrecruitment" target="top"> US will 'have to face' military draft dilemma: senator </a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>This really makes my head spin!<br><br>Currently we are trapped in a war that everyone knows was sold to us on lies. Nearly 2/3 of Americans already believe the sacrifices made in Iraq have not been worth it. Military recruitment efforts are faltering big time due to this sham of a war. It would seem the democrats have been handed a weapon of the surest accuracy against Bush's regime. The democrats could easily be convincing Americans that our troops need to be pulled out of Iraq so that they could perform their true duty, defending America, seeing as how the military can't replenish the ranks fast enough through volunteer enlistment. <br><br>But no!? No, the democrats are leading the charge to reinstate the draft! A democrat in each the House (Rangel), and the Senate (Hollings), has introduced legislation to reinstate the draft under the guise that predominantly poorer Americans are financially compelled into service to their country, while the more affluent shirk their duty. Rangel and Hollings could more easily be supporting their less fortunate constituents by outing the lying commander-in-chief; instead they'd rather create more victims for the crime. <br><br>Now, with the lack of success of military recruiters regularly making news, Democratic Senators Biden and Leahy have eached broached the subject on national TV. Both presented it as a difficult question that America must face. BULLSHIT!!! There's nothing difficult about it. Our military would not be stretched thin as it is if not for the lying and mismanagement of Bushco. Its almost as if Bushco thinned out the forces before staging their crusade in order to guaruntee a draft, and now the dems want to give them what they've wanted all along. <br><br>What to make of the nearly 2/3 (and growing) of Americans who think the sacrifice has already been too great? The dems obviously aren't listening to them when they speak of 'difficult questions', so who are they listening to? <br><br>I, myself, remain relatively docile despite all the horrendous shit that spews forth from our government. When they start coming for my sons, and nephews, and nieces, and friends that docility will end. I wonder how many more Americans out there have the same love for those they care about. <br><br>This is about something worse than slavery, this about being enslaved to agents of death and dementia, and there is no honor at all to be found in the cause. Indeed, any cause that requires conscription is no worthy cause. When it looks like these bastards start moving ahead with this, you will finally find me out on the street corner yelling at the top of my lungs; I earnestly hope that you will join me. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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great post

Postby Ted the dog » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:20 pm

I couldn't agree with you more.<br><br><br>Maybe the possible coming of the draft will be "THE BIG ONE" ...the one big issue that finally wakes everyone up and gets them going. <p></p><i></i>
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The other big one.

Postby slimmouse » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:34 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Maybe the possible coming of the draft will be "THE BIG ONE" ...the one big issue that finally wakes everyone up and gets them going<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->. <br><br> What concerns me as much, is the next "Big one" <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>they</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> might have to manufacture in order to achieve this <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :\ --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The other big one.

Postby heath7 » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:27 pm

Exactly!!<br> <p></p><i></i>
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I wouldn't worry about gen x and y

Postby glubglubglub » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:36 pm

If there's a draft they will set record lows for actually showing up; there's not enough manpower to track them all down and forcibly move them to boot camp, I'm afraid, once the no-show rate goes above 10% or so. The mistake the 60s folks made was being too damn law-abiding; years of futile and counterproductive law enforcement activity -- drug laws, copyright laws, probably more -- have ingrained in our fine youth a very healthy disrepect for the law and low grade, often daily civil disobediance...I think a draft would show just how thin the man's grasp is over the younger set.<br><br>It's only got a reasonably strong grip over the over-thirty crowd -- who has most of the wealth in the country, thus making them enough to hide the lack of control over the younger set -- but lip service amongst the younger set, in my mind. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I wouldn't worry about gen x and y

Postby heath7 » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:58 pm

That's a great point too! Although...<br><br>The next 9-11 might aim to provide motivation for rounding up those exceedingly undesirables. I keep reading how they've got room for millions on military bases around the country; y'know, for when martial law is enforced. <br><br>It all seems so crazy and unbelieveable, but these guys truly make me feel they're capable of anything. I mean really, what would be the motivation for Bush or Cheney to NOT go all the way, and make America straight-up like Nazi Germany or Stalin's USSR? (They've already introduced legislation to make dubya president for life!!!) <p></p><i></i>
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you're mostly right

Postby glubglubglub » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:43 pm

I'd like to know who the 10,000 rounded up earlier were...I'd informally guess about 1/3 of the draftable will not show up if called without being dragged (though instead of protesting they'll just kinda disappear, crash on couches, etc.) and the level of invasiveness needed to round up 1/3 or more is something ridiculous enough to bring out good old anti-government sentiment in everyone else.<br><br>Also, the morale among conscripts is notoriously low to being with; I'd imagine many of those who did show up would feel like chumps once a significant number of their fellow conscriptees escape, and that'd cause problems of its own.<br><br>I'm fortunate enough to interact with people of all ages, and I'm reporting the vibe I get. I suspect my findings are what show up also in the inevitable focus groups and market research the cabal does, too, which is why I think the shit hitting the fan -> martial law -> conscription has been put off or postponed...9/11 worked mostly as intended but I think they're figuring out how to salvage phase two.<br><br>If I were in their shoes I'd at least consider stranding our troops in Iraq and trying to appeal to patriotism to go rescue them and retreat to safety/win the fight, but even that option doesn't work: as bad as things are on the ground it'd have to get a lot worse before the freedom fighters corner our troops (and we'd have to explain why carpet bombing the opposition is no longer an option, since it has been so far), and moreover too much domestic political capital is currently tied up in claiming that the iraq war is going well that a sudden reversal of (claimed) fortunes is probably seen as overly risky in the circles that matter; since Iran is mostly playing its cards smart it seems like even a false Iranian ground attack on Iraq wouldn't be believable at this point, and a missile strike a bit less so.<br><br>What scares me is less conscription than what I'm guessing is the final phase: I strongly doubt that the end goal is nazi germany in the states as it is to ensure that the current ruling wealthy elite stays entrenched as such globally; the long-range game plan basically looks to me like a series of progressively less attractive (to the wealthy ruling elites) but acceptable options, ranging on the high end from an enslaved world producing toys and performing labor for them to on the low end a decimated american population too feeble to overthrow them from here, with most of their capital and wealth moved to by-then safer locales...so if the better (to them) options look unattainable they may go all the way, cash out of this country, and scorch its earth to burn the bridges the angry peasants might otherwise storm across. Since military conscription's not an option, I don't think, something truly awful might have to happen...that's what keeps me up at night. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: on the Omnipotence of Political Elites

Postby robertdreed » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:29 pm

Thankfully, I think that in regard to our present situation in the USA, the omnipotence of the Bush regime is overrated.<br><br>It appears to me as if their plans have bogged down considerably. I think they reckoned without the Internet, for one thing. They thought that they'd be able to mold public opinion in fervent support for their grand schemes, through a combination of mass media control and the use of a core of popular support to strongarm-intimidate dissenters and smother inquiry. But too many of the dissenters didn't fit their fantasized stereotype of wimpy, nihilistic, pacifistic leftist whiners. There has been entirely too much skepticism from populations like military veterans, police, local political officals, community leaders, freelance gadflys, and even within the ranks of Middle Americans. And, to the palpable frustration of neocons like David Horowitz, the majority of of the skepticism and dissent has been non-ideologically based. Most of the dissent has related to sound practical concerns and good sense, like a reluctance to endorse waging war for any reason except self-defense, and an antipathy to having one's intelligence insulted by appeals to hysteria. <br><br>So I think the Bush administration is in the process of curbing their more gandiose ambitions. If they don't, look out. But if they do decide to escalate- by invading Syria, say, or instituting the draft- I think the whole thing will come down around their ears. The more prudent course for someone like George W. Bush would be to consider that he's already achieved many of his major goals- the tax cuts; takeover of much regulation by big business; increased government secrecy- including the continued ability to shield the official archive of his father's career from historical scrutiny; a strengthened American presence in Southwest and Central Asia; Congressional assent to giving him the war-making power that led to the invasion and occupation of Iraq, thus augmenting his presidential power with the powers of Commander-in-Chief; the winning of a second term; the success of his party in capturing a majority in both houses of Congress. <br><br>So Bush can settle for being a lame duck at this point, leaving the country to remain in a holding pattern without too much drama. The safe thing to do at this point is to jawbone and act as if he's in the process of quietly winding down the American military commitment in Iraq, rather than escalating and widening military action. He risks disaster at home by doing that. The reaction to a renewed draft would be cataclysmic, I think. <br><br>I'm guessing that we're stuck with Bush for another three years, but that he's been put in check by increasing public wariness. The public is increasingly finding out about some of these torture scandals and civil liberties threats, and it's apparent that many of them are upset, and calling their Congresspeople about it. Praise democracy. So I think the worst of that will be exposed and ended. And I anticipate significant gains for the Democrats in next year's Congressional elections. <br><br>Not to say that I'm free of worry- mostly about devious incremental encroachments on citizens through the adoption of biometric ID cards, ubiquitous radio tracking and surveillance, SDI tech, conversion to the "cashless society", and the continued reliance on electronic voting rather than physical paper balloting. I consider untraceable electronic vote fraud to be a grave threat, no matter who does it. But as of now, I think only Republicans are in a position to pull it off. I wish that legislatures would come to their senses and return to a method of voting that isn't vulnerable to wholesale untraceable fraud. The naivete is mind-boggling. <br><br>I'm also wary of legislation intensifying the War On Drugs, whether under the guise of a War on Terrorism or otherwise. I think the average age of a Congressperson is still about 25 years older than that of the average American, and that indicates to me that they remain sufficiently out of touch enough to possibly pass a new batch of terribly draconian "antidrug" laws in a fit of desperation. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 6/16/05 7:32 pm<br></i>
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you nail it, more or less

Postby glubglubglub » Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:09 am

I think we're basically in agreement; since there's not all that many new drugs out there they'll have to tighten the screws a bit...but enough of the boomers, even, are just pro-drug-enough to be upset, I think, if their retirement, healthcare, and employment prospects for their last decade in the workforce start all looking like shite and rather than address palpable problems the government is clearly throwing good money after bad weed...I really think at this point the bushite cabal is profit-taking and trying to find a way to postpone enough of the bill-paying to get back into power sooner by making their opponents lwind up taking the fall.<br><br>Things I can see: John Edwards as prez in 08 (or Hilary if the dems are retarded enough to run her) and maybe the long awaited second 9/11 midway through his otherwise successful turn...if the bushites are out of office the populace needs to nail them to the wall for war crimes and such asap to avoid some kind of "we kept you (mostly) safe" bullshit from the fascist warmonger wing. <p></p><i></i>
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