what do we want?

by **Sokolova** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:45 am

Maybe it's a dumb question, but what are we all here for? I mean on this site, posting here, doing what we do. What are we hoping to achieve or reach by doing it? What are our individual hopes and goals? BTW have I upset people with the climate change thing? It's a way of mine. I feel any group is only as good as its abilty to question its own assumptions, so I kind of test out situations. I had thought you guys would be up for questioning ALL your assumptions as well as those of other people? Maybe I was wrong. I tell you what I am looking for. Some people who have no preconceptions, for whom everything is possible and nothing is - ever - set in stone. People who don't 'believe' anything, who don't make collections of ideas and ring them round with emotional defences. I don't want to deal with the kind of dreary individuals who seem to constitute so much of the human race, who get offended and emotional and defensive because you tread on some unguessed aspect of their belief system they consider too important to ever question. In my view nothing should ever be too important to question, except maybe the Unknowable. That's what I want here. What do you guys want? Ellie

by **ZeroHaven** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:32 am

Ellie, Short answer: We are changing the world. I can tell you what I personally want and what I do here just as easily. I want to re-learn to interact with thinking people who are still capable of logic and reasoning. I functionally lobotomized myself over the years because nobody understood what I was saying, or even cared about the subject. "Shhhh, Baywatch is on!" What I do is add my own experience and ideas into the mix. I have some strange facts to add. I have an often childish or naive perspective which I believe isn't common in these types of discussions. As we're all affected by our experience, I believe my contributions could add significantly to ideas that others with more influence will bring elsewhere. There ARE people reading and watching and getting their minds changed by what they see here. The next revolution may be started by a line someone sees. The next messiah could be encouraged to action by our words, and may even already be among us. The point was proven when RI was added to that cheezy list. I am thrilled to be a spec of dust on a pebble that is making waves. Maybe one day we'll knock an eye out! ------- "Information is the power and currency of the virtual world we inhabit." - Billy Idol

by **proldic** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:00 am

" It is so important to understand that one of the primary means of immobilizing the American people politically today is to hold them in a state of confusion in which anything can be believed but nothing can be known, nothing of significance that is..." " And the American people are more than willing to be held in this state because to KNOW the truth - as to only BELIEVE the truth - is to face an awful terror and to be no longer able to evade responsibility. It is precisely in moving from belief to knowledge that the citizen moves from irresponsibility to responsibility, from helplessness and hopelessness to action, with the ultimate aim of being empowered and confident in one's rational powers." From an unpublished letter from Martin Schotz to Vincent Salandria (5/92) " Today most Americans BELIEVE there was a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy, but they don't KNOW it. They don't want to KNOW it - and our government doesn't want to KNOW it and our elected representatives don't want to KNOW it, because KNOWING it would mean having to do something about it. That is an awesome thought." From "The Last Investigation" by Gaeton Fonzi

by **Sokolova** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:47 am

Have you noticed how language is being corrupted to assist confusion? It's routine now for news presenters and documentary voice-overs to use the word 'believes' in place of the word 'thinks', as in 'Prof So-and-so believes...' - as if there were no syllogisms, no logical deductions, no lines of evidence, no rational constructions - just slabs of belief and dogma battling it out in chaos. 'Thinking' is being phased out as a concept. 'Believing' is all we are supposed to do now. But is anyone else going to tell us what they are looking for here? Ellie

by **Dreams End** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:50 am

I don't remember how I found this site. I've always had an interest in the paranormal...literally when I was in fifth grade, I told everyone my hobby was "parapsychology." Yeah, they reacted in pretty much the way you probably just imagined. I began to get pretty political in high school but I really didn't put those two together. I moved from a secular perspective to a Christian perspective soon after that (as in Christian activist, not as in Christian who believes it's all about my personal "salvation" and nothing else.) I since got pretty frustrated with the Christian church and left it behind. I never lost my interest in all aspects of the paranormal, though. (If you think about it, all religious perspectives are "paranormal" in a sense.) A book, UFO's and the National Security State, made me start to reexamine how the paranormal and political might be connected. Actually, my first foray into that was the Jacques Vallee book where he starts running across all these sophisticated hoaxes that track back to various government sources. His theory, the best he could come up with, was that this was done as a contingency to set up a "worldwide emergency" (alien invasion) should the powers that be need an excuse to put the hammer down. Vallee "screwed me up" again, though when I read his ealier book, Passport to Magonia, when I realized the "nuts and bolts" explanation of these things doesn't really work much of the time...despite physical evidence. I hadn't thought about the other aspects of paranormal connections till I got here...but it's been really interesting. I actually started with Dave McGowan's book, Programmed to Kill, which goes into some of the same territory. However, Jeff's site was the first to suggest to me that maybe some of the occult stuff actually has an effect, besides simply being the belief system of those doing nasty things. When I saw the picture of the being allegedly conjured by Crowley which looked so similar to the "grays" I began to wonder. So why am I here? All these threads remained separate in my thinking. I knew I was frustrated with political activism as the people around me seemed to see such a small part of the picture. Sure, when the shrubberies are on fire, you might want to put them out, but if the house is also on fire, might you spare just a bit of water for that as well? Or perhaps, ignore the bushes for now? Sorry about the pun...unintentional. So this has started a new thinking process in me and seeing connections I hadn't seen. It's also got me thinking about what I should be doing to make a difference. Finally, it's caused me to entertain ideas that there may be a nonphysical realm that has some role in that that I'd like to explore (carefully!!). So I post here...sometimes long rambling posts....as I help clarify my own thinking. I don't think posting on this site alone really does too much, but it helps people try to put pieces of the puzzle together in a way that makes sense to them, and then, hopefully act on that information and share it with others. As for your climate change...NO ONE should get mad at information posted here. Sometimes, tempers flare and attacks get personal, but I don't think people had a problem with that post. Maybe I missed something. Oh, and one subtopic, if you can call it that, that I keep pushing here is people's various personal stories and experiences. The stories here are fascinating, and, I think helpful to hear. From another post of yours, it sounds like your life has been fascinating and I hope we hear more about your experiences as well.

by **robertdreed** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:12 pm

Leads. Laughs (which I find therapeutic.) Brainstorming. A receptive audience. A skeptical audience. That's enough, I suppose.

by **Peachtree Pam** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:23 pm

Hi Sokolova, I post here because I am with people who share my view that discussion should be open, unharassed, and should pertain to any reasonable topic. If I did not post here I would not have seen your posts on 7/7, which I read with great interest. I do not know anything about climate change, but read your thread and learned a lot. This blog is about learning, learning about topics you didn't even know existed, such as Jeff's explorations into the occult, interdimensional visits, RA and mind control. I have read Jeff's blog ever since it began but never had the courage to post my views. I finally pulled together and began posting, never having posted anywhere before. So far, I've enjoyed all of the discussions, some silly, some very profound. My interests are politics, RA, mind control, and the occult. I hope to learn a great deal about each one, and to contribute to the discussions.

by **GDN01** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:26 pm

I'm here to find different perspectives on a wide range of topics, and to share information, hoping to shape the "big picture" that is being drawn by each of us. I want to learn as well as educate. I found this site while looking for info on ritual abuse, and posted and stayed, initially, because it was the first time I was ever able to share my personal life experience with this topic with people who believed and had also gone through it. I do want to say, that I disagree a bit with some of your hopes for this board, sokolova. I tell you what I am looking for. Some people who have no preconceptions, for whom everything is possible and nothing is - ever - set in stone. People who don't 'believe' anything, who don't make collections of ideas and ring them round with emotional defences. While this may be what you are looking for, I am looking for people who have come to some conclusions and developed strong beliefs. There is a saying that goes something like: If you don't know what you stand for, you will fall for anything. We all have preconceptions - it is impossible not to. And there are some things that are set in stone for me. And I believe many things. I believe in the power of truth and love to combat the power of evil. I also believe something that is set in stone can be blasted away by powerful enough information that it can totally reshape the terrain of my mind. I think it is fine for people to argue their opinions and the truth they have carefully informed and constructed with great effort and over time, and to argue their stand vehemently. But - I don't like when the arguing of one's position involves the derision of other's intelligence and assumption of one's superiority, and name calling - especially the whole "you must be a disinfo agent working for the other side because you disagree with me." But I find it helpful and healthy when people with differing views, hold strong to their ideas and truth, and enter into a dialogue, disagreeing, arguing, presenting points and counter points, to what ever has been posted. It is how we all learn. So, I don't want to find people with no set beliefs, where every and any thing goes and is expected to be accepted at face value. I like people with opinions, strong opinions, even if we disagree. And if people tread on some part of my belief system - I want to be able to say so, and say why. This is a public discussion board. The whole reason to put stuff here is for there to be a discussion. And if you only want people to respond with agreement, I think you will be disappointed here. We are all looking for something different. It seems to me, in the short time I've been here, there has been a shift to more political topics and less of the paranormal, ufo, occult topics. This may be a result of what is happening in our society, or an increase in viewers who are looking for a more open place to discuss political things than DU and DKos. But I kinda miss the other discussions!

by **DrDebugDU** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:51 pm

Basically for me it is to get a better understanding of the world. The reason why I am currently on this website is first because Seems invited me to join and post here and most importantly the enormous amount of knowledge of the posters on this board. Many posters here have clearly read and studied many diverse subjects for many years which is quite unique compared to more general messageboards. In general discussions about out of the ordinary subjects and conspiracies etc. are too far fetched for most places. This messageboard is quite exceptional. I wouldn't call it that are no preconceptions. There are many preconceptions in all of us, but a lot of normal preconceptions have already been shattered for most of the people here. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=drdebugdu>DrDebugDU</A> at: 8/6/05 2:53 pm

by **Sweejak** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:13 pm

In lieu of revolution in the streets I think that this, participating on this and other boards, is akin to furthering the 100th monkey, even though that particular experiment is very questionable. Also; - searching for a "grand unified conspiracy". - ideas - leads - observations - conversation, which I prefer over debate. I want to be a part of whatever it is that the net will create, a global mind? Whenever cells start communicating they create an organism, I want to watch that.

by **jenz** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:24 pm

Information. Especially that which comes from personal experience, but links to the wider issues. Or shortcuts to info held elsewhere, when someone else already looked for the answers. Its fortunate to be a part of a language community which is so wide, but would be better still if it attracted posts from other areas of the world. It feels a bit Americo-centric at times.

by **Sweejak** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:41 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>It feels a bit Americo-centric at times. <hr></blockquote> Oh I know, I really value boards with lots of georgraphic variety. Language of course is a problem.

by **heath7** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:21 pm

If it weren't for boards like this and the internet itself, I'd probably be thoughtless, beer-drinking and casting aspersions all the time like all my construction buddies. Now, I'm thoughtful while I drink my beer and cast aspersions.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> Seriously, the topics discussed on this board are unwelcome in nearly every other context of conversation available. Bring up anything like satanist child abusers, or a US government that is out to get you (is out to get everyone) and you're looked at as a trouble making imbecile in most other circles of discussion. Virtually no one can see, from the surface, the inherent interest of such subjects. Hell, most other circles I come into contact with don't even qualify as conversation or discussion. So many people just like to tell you how it is, and are uninterested in listening to any response. Don't even try to be thoughtful, because they aren't looking for it, and won't respond to it. Its literally a waste of time. For what I know, this board, and the community at unknownnews.net, are the apex of thoughtful discussion. Mind you, not perfect, but something to be proud of. ...and sometimes its just really nice to vent.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

by **Seventhsonjr** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:31 pm

Pleased to meet you Ellie - My own situation is a little complicated, so bear with me. First and foremost, I am a writer, and I have a contract to write a book on matters I have been researching regarding Naziism and the ties of the Nazis to the Bushes, among other things. Posting here enlightens me and is good exercise for my skills both in jousting with opponents, identifying (or trying anyway) fascist provocateurs, and stating my information while telling these stories and explaining perspectives I have gained from my research. I am especially here because of Jeff. He truly astounds me in many ways with his deep insight, intuition, and general good nature and intentions here. This is a great board which can transfrom the world, and so I love it here. Due to my political writing, etc., I was badjacketed at several other boards and found Jeff (Minstrelboy) at Democratic Underground as a kindred soul. I have been trying to use political discussion boards for about five years to educate folks on the research I have been doing off and on for decades on the corporate and American ties to Hitler and the nazis. The Key political issue for me is to educate people on the intergenerational efforts of the Bushes and their fascist collaborators such as the Rockefellers, Dulles, Morgans, and others who backed Hitler and supported naziism before, during and possibly even after WWII. I am one who believes that Hitler may have survived and will not be convinced unless and until I see reliable forensic and dna evidence that he died in that Berlin binker and that he did not escape to Argentina or Chile as my father believed based on hgis intelligence connections. I am a lawyer and investigative writer (among other things) who has some pretty extensive experience in Holocaust studies because my father, an American, who did some intelligence work, worked with the European antifascist and Jewish underground during WWII and learned of the Wall Street ties to Hitler in the early 1940's. I have interviewed many of his colleagues (altho many of them were murdered by the Nazis as well). Because of my knowledge and experience, and because to many posters a lot of my perspectives are outside of their knowledge and experience - and because I often expose the truth about things and in a way that is dangerous, I believe, to the BFEE, I have been targeted over the past 3 decades , and on the internet ever since I started posting, with death threats, harassment, and effors to discredit me. On election night 2004 I was badjacketed at my "home" - DU -Democratic Underground -- and someone impersonating me (either by figuring out my password or by hijacking my ISP remotely) attacked people, including Andy Stephenson and, I believe, jeff, with horrible and degrading dumail and stated that I was actually a Bush operativee who had been fooling everyoine for years. I was banned there immediately. After I spoke directly with Andy Stephenson (whom I had befriended prior to this and whom I had coimmunicated with via email ) , I asked him to contact Jeff and explain what had happened. It took me months even to make all the contacts and I was devastated. I gave all my bona fide info (I lecture publicly and have even done a history channel piece on my father's story) to Andy and Jeff and they believed me. Anyway, that is why I am here. I cannot be badjacketed by the fascists here because Jeff knows exactly who I am and why I am here. I can communicate with people anonymously (which I plan to end soon, in terms of anonymity) without fear of banning or extremist retaliation. The BFEE know who I am and so do the intel folks whose job it is to keep tabs on me. On line some of the operatives know me and some do not. I hope to educate them to and "turn" them away from fascism and support for the madmen who are running the planet into a Global Gehenna of misery, disease and death. I also work to educate people on the dangers of man-made nuclear isotopes in the environment (no nukes!) which are being, in my opinion, used as a global Auschwitz without fences to control the population and reduce it. See www.radiation.org and especially the linked articles by Dr. Ernest Sternglass ( a friend of mine who was mentored by Einstein) for more on what they are doing to ALL of us. Depleted Uranium, too, is killing our own troops as well as the victims of these wars. Finally, I am interested in sharing my spiritual experiences and interests and learning all I can about others experiences and knowledge. I find Jeff Wells to be perhaps the most intuitive and fun and trustworthy author and investigative journalist/essayist to read on the internet. I do not believe that I have even ONCE disagreed with anything he has written (except that I wish he would post more about his background and philosophy on his bio on the blog frontpage). I think this site reaches people and can help transform the world. I believe in the ultimate victory of good (Love) over evil (hate and brutal greed and destruction). I believe that faith will move mountains; but you have to shovel like hell to move them. RI is where I try to move one shovelfull at a time to bring humanity closer to sanctuary from the oppressors. Peace and Welcome Seventhson (aka Seventhsonjr) Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=seventhsonjr>Seventhsonjr</A> at: 8/6/05 8:42 pm

by **marykmusic** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:06 pm

Because the place where I started, the chemtrail board www.cloud-busters.com and the whole cloudbuster movement started by my brother, Don Croft (also see <a href="http://www.educate-yourself.org" target="top">www.educate-yourself.org</a> and <a href="http://www.metatech.org" target="top">www.metatech.org</a> both of which have some very good stuff with some serious disinfo mixed in) got broken up. We were kicked off more than one group through my brother's intervention (at his handlers' insistence.) My husband (Captain Dragon) and I went back to the original yahoo cloudbusters group; Don had been shut down and kicked off there right before I got online in 2002. Dragon and I are still there, and the whole problem with Agents is less than it was. Because chemtrails are only ONE of numerous black-budget programs, and only dealing with one is like treating the symptom rather than the disease. Because both Don and I were MK-Ultra (M-kids.) You know, military and masonic family, the Bloodline, all that. Because my first-born child whom I gave up for "adoption" was probably a sacrifice or raised to be used; there is certainly no birth certificate or even a record that she was even born at that hospital, on that day. And my doctor and attorney were lodge brothers. Because the best way I know to rise above the forces that grind us down, is bringing knowledge and awareness, and yes-- communication-- out in the open. Because all I can do from here is write. Dragon does the Agnihotra ceremony every sunrise and sunset, and distributes the ash freely to whomever wants to try it. He has iscovered that it has not only the traditionally-known healing effects (I use it on things like on one of my Arabian mares who cut her leg and it was swollen; ash mixed with aloe juice and by the next day the swelling was gone), but also as a protective force. It was that ash that shut down the party at Bohemian Grove last weekend. Healing the planet is not too much to expect. Because Dragon writes, too, but most of his time is spent making various metaphysical tools, including cloudbusters. These are not only cleaning up chemtrails (very few here any more, and similar reports like that from all over the world) but also smog, feedlot/dairy stink, and in general raise the consciousness-level of the users. Read his stuff here: <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cloudbusters/" target="top">cloudbusters</a> Because I can do more than write (remote viewing, for example), but ...okay, it's a Gemini thing. Thanks to all the fine people who supply me with things to think and write about. --MaryK

what do we want?

what do we want?

Re: what do we want?

On Belief Versus Knowledge

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Interesting question

what I look for from RI

Reason to post here

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re what do we want?

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