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Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:45 pm

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my answer

Postby sln70 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:53 pm

is no.<br>I believe they can be exposed, and in fact are, regularly, exposed. HOWEVER, the problem as I see it lies in getting the majority to believe what has been exposed.<br><br>So perhaps I'm playing semantics, or perhaps the question was too vague. But as I see it, being exposed is part of the fun for them. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Survey: do you agree, or disagree?

Postby erosoplier » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:44 pm

“The ability of the extremely wealthpowerful to conceal the truth about their identities and deeds is always going to exceed <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>your</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> ability to expose the truth about their identities and deeds.”<br><br><br>As others have said, alone we are doomed, together we have a chance.<br><br>And really, we know more than enough about the deeds of the extremely wealthpowerful - there is no need for more exposure. We just need to remember a few basic rules of common decency, and demand that they be observed.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: my answer

Postby thurnandtaxis » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:54 pm

hmmm.<br><br>i agree that the odds are in the favor of the oppressor, and that much of our information has always been misinformation and disinformation. i believe that for generations they have hidden themselves behind the trappings of ritual and religion, often conflating their identities with that of the supposed gods. my only hope is that they eventually become so anemic and weak from generations of inbreeding that their scion become<br>grist to the evolutionary mill.<br><br>anyone remember the end of william gibson' neuromancer when the wealthy are so removed from humanity that they live in an off-world satellite, the villa straylight, and are attempting to become a living hybrid with the artificial intelligence system? i think that was a bang-up analogy <br>that helped form my conception of the so-called ptb. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thurnandtaxis>thurnandtaxis</A> at: 10/30/06 8:55 pm<br></i>
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Re: my answer

Postby AlicetheCurious » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:44 am

As Hugh said:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Fascist control of the media - telecommunications, publishing, print, radio, TV, movies. Yup.<br><br>Fascist control of infrastructure and institutions - transportation, police, military, executive/legislative/judicial branches of government. Yup.<br><br>That's a lot. ...And there's always the desperate last resort to just shoot JFK, RFK, MLK, or character assassinate personality threats.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>The odds are stacked way against us. At this point, I've lowered my sights considerably. I'm simply reduced to refusing to be intimidated or brainwashed into saying (or even worse, believing) that black is white or that 2+2=5.<br><br>One of the most powerful methods of defusing resistance is to muddy the waters, make things ambiguous, so that people don't know the difference between truth and fiction, friend or enemy, trap or refuge, or danger and security. In the face of so much ambiguity and uncertainty, people become paralysed and divided.<br><br>Truth becomes "haystacked" (again thanks to Hugh), or the poison is sugar-coated so it goes down easy. I'm chilled to the bone by the new fashion of having sweet-faced Israeli girl soldiers acting as spokespeople on the international news. Or the kindly, elderly, or thoughtful 'analyst' advocating mass murder of innocent people in such a way that the average tv audience will find it a very reasonable, even admirable course of action for the world's most powerful military.<br><br>The one thing that can save us is international law, but with neither the sufficient means nor the will to enforce it, we're losing that most precious and beautiful human invention. To me, this is a tragedy of cosmic proportions.<br><br>So, against powerful and wealthy global forces, what can we peons do? Keeping our minds and hearts out of their grubby paws is a good start. Reclaiming our right to interact with reality independently of their propaganda filters is a good second step. In other words, re-learning how to distinguish fiction from fact, real people from invented characters, and information from dumbed-down 'infotainment' and agitprop.<br><br>The more people do that, the weaker and more exposed these currently all-powerful elites will become. Evil thrives in the dark, and feeds on fear, which in turn feeds on ignorance. <br><br>Ignorance is promoted by the elites, in the guise of news, entertainment and education. More of us are going to have to turn away from their propaganda matrix and rely on ourselves by reading, listening, and visiting sources outside of the box.<br><br>Open discussions like the ones on this board are incredible tools for hashing things out and presenting a wide range of views, not to mention so much data that gets edited out of the official/corporate story.<br><br>The bottom line is, if enough people become disgusted and disillusioned and turn away from the lies and hate-mongering, great, there's hope.<br><br>If not, those few who do, at least have the satisfaction of knowing that if they didn't save the world, at least they managed to save their own souls.<br><br>Who knows? Maybe, in the big picture, that's all that matters. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: my answer

Postby rain » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:21 pm

as always Alice, most eloquently stated.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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The good Doctor has the answer

Postby professorpan » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:09 pm

<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0394800877.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>On the far-away island of Sala-ma-Sond,<br>Yertle the Turtle was king of the pond.<br>A nice little pond. It was clean. It was neat.<br>The water was warm. There was plenty to eat.<br>The turtles had everything turtles might need.<br>And they were all happy. Quite happy indeed.<br><br>They were... untill Yertle, the king of them all,<br>Decided the kingdom he ruled was too small.<br>"I'm ruler", said Yertle, "of all that I see.<br>But I don't see enough. That's the trouble with me.<br>With this stone for a throne, I look down on my pond<br>But I cannot look down on the places beyond.<br>This throne that I sit on is too, too low down.<br>It ought to be higher!" he said with a frown.<br>"If I could sit high, how much greater I'd be!<br>What a king! I'd be ruler of all that I see!"<br><br>So Yertle, the Turtle King, lifted his hand<br>And Yertle, the Turtle King, gave a command.<br>He ordered nine turtles to swim to his stone<br>And, using these turtles, he built a new throne.<br>He made each turtle stand on another one's back<br>And he piled them all up in a nine-turtle stack.<br>And then Yertle climbed up. He sat down on the pile.<br>What a wonderful view! He could see 'most a mile!<br>"All mine!" Yertle cried. "Oh, the things I now rule!<br>I'm the king of a cow! And I'm the king of a mule!<br>I'm the king of a house! And, what's more, beyond that<br>I'm the king of a blueberry bush and a cat!<br>I'm Yertle the Turtle! Oh, marvelous me!<br>For I am the ruler of all that I see!"<br><br>And all through the morning, he sat up there high<br>Saying over and over, "A great king am I!"<br>Until 'long about noon. Then he heard a faint sigh.<br>"What's that?" snapped the king<br>And he looked down the stack.<br>And he saw, at the bottom, a turtle named Mack.<br>Just a part of his throne. And this plain little turtle<br>Looked up and he said, "Beg your pardon, King Yertle.<br>I've pains in my back and my shoulders and knees.<br>How long must we stand here, Your Majesty, please?"<br>"SILENCE!" the King of the Turtles barked back.<br>"I'm king, and you're only a turtle named Mack."<br>"You stay in your place while I sit here and rule.<br>I'm the king of a cow! And I'm the king of a mule!<br>I'm the king of a house! And a bush! And a cat!<br>But that isn't all. I'll do better than that!<br><br>My throne shall be higher!" his royal voice thundered,<br>"So pile up more turtles! I want 'bout two hundred!"<br>"Turtles! More turtles!" he bellowed and brayed.<br>And the turtles 'way down in the pond were afraid.<br>They trembled. They shook. But they came. They obeyed.<br>From all over the pond, they came swimming by dozens.<br>Whole families of turtles, with uncles and cousins.<br>And all of them stepped on the head of poor Mack.<br>One after another, they climbed up the stack.<br>Then Yertle the Turtle was perched up so high,<br>He could see fourty miles from his throne in the sky!<br>"Hooray!" shouted Yertle. "I'm the king of the trees!<br>I'm king of the birds! And I'm king of the bees!<br>I'm king of the butterflies! King of the air!<br>Ah, me! What a throne! What a wonderful chair!<br>I'm Yertle the Turtle! Oh, marvelous me!<br>For I am the ruler of all that I see!"<br><br>Then again, from below, in the great heavy stack,<br>Came a groan from that plain little turtle named Mack.<br>"Your Majesty, please... I don't like to complain,<br>But down here below, we are feeling great pain.<br>I know, up on top you are seeing great sights,<br>But down here at the bottom we, too, should have rights.<br>We turtles can't stand it. Our shells will all crack!<br>Besides, we need food. We are starving!" groaned Mack.<br><br>"You hush up your mouth!" howled the mighty King Yertle.<br>"You've no right to talk to the world's highest turtle.<br>I rule from the clouds! Over land! Over sea!<br>There's nothing, no, NOTHING, that's higher than me!"<br><br>But, while he was shouting, he saw with suprise<br>That the moon of the evening was starting to rise<br>Up over his head in the darkening skies.<br>"What's THAT?" snorted Yertle. "Say, what IS that thing<br>That dares to be higher than Yertle the King?<br>I shall not allow it! I'll go higher still!<br>I'll build my throne higher! I can and I will!<br>I'll call some more turtles. I'll stack 'em to heaven!<br>I need 'bout five thousand, six hundred and seven!"<br><br>But, as Yertle, the Turtle King, lifted his hand<br>And started to order and give the command,<br>That plain little turtle below in the stack,<br>That plain little turtle whose name was just Mack,<br>Decided he'd taken enough. And he had.<br>And that plain little lad got a bit mad.<br>And that plain little Mack did a plain little thing.<br>He burped!<br>And his burp shook the throne of the king!<br><br>And Yertle the Turtle, the king of the trees,<br>The king of the air and the birds and the bees,<br>The king of a house and a cow and a mule...<br>Well, that was the end of the Turtle King's rule!<br>For Yertle, the King of all Sala-ma-Sond,<br>Fell off his high throne and fell Plunk! in the pond!<br><br>And to say the great Yertle, that Marvelous he,<br>Is King of the Mud. That is all he can see.<br>And the turtles, of course... all the turtles are free<br>As turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The good Doctor has the answer

Postby Seamus OBlimey » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:32 pm

Wicked Prof. Just wicked.<br><br>Now I'm wondering what effect all the above has had on Anna's survey and will we see the results? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: my answer

Postby darkbeforedawn » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:54 pm

Alice is right--we have to look at this situation not in terms of absolutes who is going to win type scenario, but in terms of what can we do for ourselves now. Numero uno is stop sucking up their lies from the MSM, stop buying their lies in the form of products that do not enhance our lives and start thinking for ourselves. This picture is too big for any one of us to see the outcome. We just need to live in a spirtual way now. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Survey: do you agree, or disagree?

Postby yesferatu » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:27 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>“The ability of the extremely wealthpowerful to conceal the truth about their identities and deeds is always going to exceed your ability to expose the truth about their identities and deeds.”<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>true...I agree. <br>Surveys are only good if you get the answer that first pops into the head of the surveyee to the question. I could digress and go back and forth, agree, disagree, but, as a survey, my immediate answer is "of course I agree with that." <br>My bet is that is was the immediate answer for everyone on this board, even those in this thread who might say their answer is disagree. I would ask them: was that really the very first response that jumped out at you?? Because those who disagree seem to formulate an inner debate. Unfortunately that gut answer of "i agree" is the winner. <br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=yesferatu@rigorousintuition>yesferatu</A> at: 10/31/06 9:40 pm<br></i>
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Re: Survey: do you agree, or disagree?

Postby pepsified thinker » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:22 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I believe they can be exposed, and in fact are, regularly, exposed. HOWEVER, the problem as I see it lies in getting the majority to believe what has been exposed.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I think this points to the 'truth'--getting clear (enough) proof is key. Getting people willing to look at whatever proof is presented is part of the process--and one thing the 9-11 Truth movement has going for it--and that Rove and Co. seem to be masterfully able to make serve their ends: Rove and co. have woven a mentally restraining net of Fox-news type outlets of 'info' that keep conservatives from beginning to look at their underlying assumptions and/or listen with openness to opposing points of view. <br><br>Then again, my conservative friends would probably view this forum as something similar, only 'liberal' (not sure 'liberal' the right word, but whatever). And the fact that I'm turning that idea back towards myself puts me in mind of something I think Bertrand Russel said, <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of self-doubt. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>BUT--I think clear enough evidence CAN be generated--and people are sometimes 'ready' to hear it (it doesn't hurt if there's a faction of the CIA or whatever, ready to fan the embers of truth for their own ends--and living with that is probably inevitable). <br> <br>BUT another thought--what if 'we' launched some sort of campaign to weaken Rove and Co.'s network of thought-control, so some of his base were opened up to alternative points of view? What sorts of messages could pentrate? Anyone know the Blake poem <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://quotations.about.com/cs/poemlyrics/a/A_Poison_Tree.htm"><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>A Poison Tree</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->? We need to plant one--only not with a deadly poison, but with an antidote--same idea, though in terms of luring people to it.<br><br>Then again--done wrong, we become 'them'. This can't be a deceitful, manipulative act. Talking about it openly might help guard against that. <br><br>Looking at folks who've stopped supporting Republicans and, if not converting fully to whatever camp you want to point to as fully opposiing the PTB, have become neutral seems like a starting point. <br><br>A closing thought--Joseph Welch helped people see Sen. McCarthy for what he was. A single, revealing moment can bring down an evil regime. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Survey: do you agree, or disagree?

Postby pepsified thinker » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:25 am

Oops. Didn't realize I was, by implication, claiming to be 'intelligent' with that B. Russell quote. <br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Survey: do you agree, or disagree?

Postby rrapt » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:53 am

Thats OK pepsified - you are forgiven for claiming to be intelligent. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Time brooks no insults

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:45 am

<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://web.ukonline.co.uk/conker/weird-beasts/sphinx.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p>____________________<br>Wehret den Anfängen</p><i></i>
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Postby AnnaLivia » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:00 am

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