Continuing the Heinberg/Shambhala discussion

by **Dreams End** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:13 pm

One get really nutso, there Qutb? I've been able to find 2 or 3 "ex" Finders and you know what "industry" they all end up in? "Futuris" similar to what you posted. One of them writes for a very expensive subscription service of future trends in biotech, for example. I've really got to go get another copy of Messengers of Deception (is that the one where vallee finds all these government folks behind some of the biggest UFO hoaxes? I think that's the one.) If Jeff is reading this thread...does Stargate Conspiracy get into Human Potential foundation? It really looks to me that intel type folks have been real busy in a variety of contexts setting forward certain themes. It seems so freaking ELABORATE. Bottom line: the powers that be want a significant portion of the population to believe: a) that a world changing/society shattering event is coming soon and b) there ain't nothing we can do about it. I'd like to sort out the earthly players first before deciding if there really are any players from some other plane!

by **Avalon** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:33 pm

Regarding Richard Boylan, listed as a luminary at that conference: As far as Boylan's credibility, the transcript of the proceedings where his licenses to practice as a Psychologist, Licensed Social Worker, and Marriage, Family and Child Counselor were stripped from him may be read here: <a href="http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1996/nov/m03-001.shtml">www.virtuallystrange.net/...-001.shtml</a> The authorities took a dim view of Boylan's wanting to have nude hot tub encounters with some of his patients. Boylan "did not allow bathing suits in his hot tub because he believed residual detergent in the suits left 'soap scum' in the tub." In the accusation before the Medical Board of California Board of Psychology linked above, the first client of Boylan's mentioned in regard to the hot tub (DW) was an incest survivor. A survivor of sexual abuse, diagnosed as having post traumatic stress disorder. The second client mentioned (KG) was also a survivor of childhood physical and sexual abuse. Along with the nude hot tub episodes, Boylan manipulated KG into giving him massages while he was nude. Boylan is an unethical jerk and creep and that he is now working with so-called "Indigo Children" is disturbing.

by **starroute** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:58 pm

Catching up on the latest posts here got me remembering something odd. Back around 1980, my husband and I were briefly acquainted with a local mad scientist who was trying to build a free energy machine involving giant gyroscopes. Our landlady, who was heavily into ecology, had put us in contact because she thought we'd like to meet each other. His name was Bruce De Palma and he was the brother of director Brian De Palma. (He said once, apparently in all seriousness, that Brian was the evil brother while he was the good brother.) He was a pretty weird dude. He had two young men living with him in a sort of master-disciple relationship. He ordered them around as if they were servants and read out bits of Hindu philosophy before dinner while they listened raptly. (Something about a bird which lays its eggs in the air because it's too pure to touch the ground.) He also had a book in his bathroom with photos of naked young boys diving into swimming holes. He gave me the creeps sufficiently that I think I was only over at his house twice before begging off. My husband visited a few additional times. Shortly before leaving town without leaving a forwarding address, he insisted on lending my husband two books. One was "Transpersonal Psychologies," edited by Charles T. Tart. The other was "Imperium" by the notorious American Nazi, Francis Parker Yockey. A few years ago, I looked his name up online and found that he had died under what some considered to be mysterious circumstances. For lack of an opportunity to return them, we still have both books on our shelves. But I've wondered for 25 years (1) what the two of them have in common and (2) why he thought it important that my husband should read them. I was thinking about all of this even before I came to the paragraph in Dreams End's quote that mentions Tart -- so it seemed like an odd bit of synchronicity to see his name. Or maybe not. Maybe there really is a "territory" where all these things hook up in a meaningful way.

by **starroute** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:36 pm

I just turned up this item: <a href="http://www.masterpage.com.pl/eer_archive/eer21june2005.html">www.masterpage.com.pl/eer...e2005.html</a> 21 June 2005 Radio Free Europe <blockquote>Quote:<hr>RUSSIAN EURASIA PARTY CREATES ARMED UNIT IN VORONEZH TO AVOID 'ORANGE REVOLUTION.' A youth group within Aleksandr Dugin's Eurasia party announced on 15 June the creation of a militarized wing in the city of Voronezh to spread its ideology and combat an "orange revolution," the group's website (<a href="http://evrazia.org)">evrazia.org)</a> reported. The site suggested that the Yabloko, the Union of Rightist Forces (SPS), the NBP, and other "democratic" organizations seek to unleash a revolution similar to that Ukraine experienced at the end of 2004.<hr></blockquote> Which reminded me of something I'd seen just a few weeks ago: <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051016/lf_afp/russiaracecrime_051016230423">news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2005...1016230423</a> Killing lays bare Russia's violent racism Oct 16, 2005 <blockquote>Quote:<hr>VORONEZH, Russia (AFP) - The killing of an 18-year-old Peruvian student by an armed gang in this central Russian city has thrown the spotlight on the growing number of racist attacks in Russian cities that officials are reluctant to confront. . . . Human rights activists say banned Russian fascist groups, including an organisation called Russian National Unity, operate with impunity in Voronezh, leaving their phone numbers on leaflets handed out in parts of the city. Three former members of Russian National Unity were imprisoned on racism charges for killing Amaro Antonio Limo, 24, a medical student from Guinea-Bissau, in Voronezh in February 2004. . . . At Voronezh's covered central market, non-Russian stallholders say they prefer to stay out of trouble by avoiding city streets. "Some days we can't go out of our houses, like on Hitler's birthday... It's better not to be out on the streets at night," said Mukhir, 30, a Tajik national selling dried fruit and nuts.<hr></blockquote> On edit: I thought I'd better look up the names of the parties that Dugin's youth group is said to be opposing. Yabloko (aka Russian Democratic Party) are considered liberals. The Union of Rightist Forces also describes itself as liberal democrats. I *think* that means they both have free-market leanings, though I'm not sure. But what the hell is the National Bolshevik Party doing on the list? It turns out, by the way, that there's a National Bolshevik Party-USA: <a href="http://www.freewebs.com/nationalbolshevikparty/">www.freewebs.com/nationalbolshevikparty/</a> They're anti-NWO, pro-ecological, and feel a need to defend themselves against charges of being white supremacists. Their site graphics, as you might expect, are heavy on red and black. Oh, and here's an interesting page on Neonazi flags in Russia. Lots more red and black there as well: <a href="http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ru%7Dnaz.html">www.crwflags.com/fotw/fla...7Dnaz.html</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=starroute>starroute</A> at: 11/7/05 11:07 am

by **Dreams End** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:19 pm

check the links on the national bolshevik party usa page to get a fuller sense. I think part of National bolshevism is really about hiding their rightist tendencies and roping people in. I think (pure speculation alert) that the split between NBP and Dugin/Eurasian movement may be cosmetic and fake. In any event, to call NBP "democratic" is silly. The NBP has a youth movement as well, and the very long article I linked to earlier points out that the intellectual roots of much of this stuff came from studying movements in the US such as Larouche and the "New Age" (their words, no details.) They say they "bought" into the ideologies, but one could also interpret this as adopting their techniques...notice that there is now a "Larouche Youth Movement" as well. More on Tart, if you have it, please. And Boylan, too. And the dePalma thing was fascinating. I think I've done us a disservice by conflating the "New Age" social control project (which is how I see it) with the Eurasian rightist movements. While I've hinted at points of confluence, especially Heinberg, I seem to be starting from the presupposition that though they appear to be sort of on opposite sides, they are really flowing from the same source. So let me be clear. I am taking this as a hypothesis of interest, but it may turn out to be way to overly simplistic. So this thread has turned into two things now...though both represented in Heinberg. Question is, should we have a new thread on "New Age" as social control and leave this thread for the Heinberg/Dugin line of thought? (Heinberg is not real explicit in his thoughts in this regard, but he can't be ignorant of the waters he swims in...or apropos to boylan, hottubs in(?))

by **Avalon** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:58 pm

I don't recall running into anything negative about Tart in the past. He's one of the relatively few scientists who have studied psi phenomena in depth. Bruce De Palma came on the radar for many people in conjunction with Richard Hoagland's interest in Brian De Palma's Mission to Mars movie several years ago. Which means that the waters will become further muddied rather than clarified...

by **starroute** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:04 pm

I'm coming to the conclusion that "National Bolshevism" is a not-so-thinly veiled play on "National Socialism" and that the intention is to combine the <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> best <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> characteristics of communism and fascism in one ungainly package. It does seem, at the least, somewhat tactless of Dugin to set up his own private brownshirts in a town that's already wracked by racist violence. I found a couple of interesting quotes from Dugin on the subject of fascism. One goes back to his National Bolshevik days in 1996, and was only available in the Google cache: <a href="http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:CSGebWfVGKgJ:www.sptimesrussia.com/secur1/151/neo.html+%22alexander+dugin%22+fascist&hl=en">64.233.161.104/search?q=c...cist&hl=en</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Local pop musician and showman Sergei Kuryokhin undertook yet another attempt to attract the city's youth to the extravagant theories and politics of the National Bolshevik Party at the St Petersburg State University last Tuesday. About 300 students gathered for the event called "People Need Soul. A Metaphysical Show Program, featuring NBP's mystical philosopher and publisher Alexander Dugin -- the party's candidate for the State Duma elections in St Petersburg last November. The viewers seemed to expect something like the last year's show "Kuryokhin for Dugin," incorporating noisy guitars, flaming crosses, a male striptease and the party's outrageous political leader Eduard Limonov, who ran for a Moscow Duma seat. What they got instead was Kuryokhin's typically elusive speeches delivered in his usual semi-jocular, absurdist manner. Alexander Dugin was more to the point, having duly delivered the outline of the theory of the "Conservative Revolution," that he promotes. "Communism did not fully satisfy us, on the other hand, we see that liberal pseudo-democracies lack content and life, so isn't it clear why people are interested in fascism," he said. "The question is not if fascism will be in Russia or not -- it will be definitely. The question is what kind of fascism it will be," he added.<hr></blockquote> The other is from Dugin's own site: <a href="http://www.arctogaia.com/public/eng-inter1.htm">www.arctogaia.com/public/eng-inter1.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>"...Dugin, in the 'Knizhnoe Obozrenie' interview you managed to get away without answering the question, whether you are a Fascist or not. I have read you articles in 'Den'' and watched your TV programme 'The Mysteries of Our Age', where you have talked about Nazi mysticism. Now, would you please answer YES or NO? And stop confusing us..." (E. Podpol'tseva, Apreleka, 44 yrs.) Dugin: I consider myself a Conservative Revolutioneer and National-Bolshevik. That is not exactly Fascism, or to say it more clearly, exactly not fascism. There were several periods during the history of fascist movements, and these periods were quite different from one another not only politically, but also philosophically and ideologically. In early Italian Fascism (which I happen to like, and I don't hesitate saying this aloud) there were many Avantgardist fronts - in social and economic spheres (Syndicalism, trade unions), in art (D'Annunzio, Marinetti, Papini, etc.), in right-wing Hegelianism that created the ideology of the Absolute State (Gentile), within esoterical seeking and Traditionalism (Evola, Reghini), and, finally, in the very Fascist way, where nihilism and anarchism ("direct action, romanticism, exotica" ) coexisted with the conservative ideals of nation, ethics, hierarchy, and military values. However, after the Mussolini-vatican pact and the re-established monarchy it all became rather dull, bureaucratic and uninteresting. For a while in 1943-5 the spirit of this left-wing republican Fascism resurfaced in the Salo republic (after the Conservatives betrayed Mussolini to the Americans), but that was something else. There was also a period that I find interesting within the German National-Socialism: The early National-Socialism, which was still clearly Socialist, Avant-garde, full of ariosophic mysticism and deeply into philosophic problematics that were developed by Conservative Revolutioneers - Ernst Junger, Arthur Müller van den Bruck, Karl Schmidt, Werner Sombarth, Martin Heidegger, Hermann Wirth, Otmar Spann, Leo Frobenius, Friedrich Hilscher, Oswald Spengler, and others. I see this pleiade of Conservative Revolutioneers the most interesting phenomenon of 20th century Europe. However, practically all these authors were marginalized by Hitler's regime, or faced heavy repression.<hr></blockquote> I looked up "ariosophy," and it refers to a particular brand of anti-semitism, based on Madame Blavatsky's "root races," which influenced Hitler. Interestingly, the early Italian phase of fascism is the kind Michael Ledeen idealizes as well.

by **starroute** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:27 pm

As far as splitting the discussion between New Agers and Russian neo-fascists -- it might make sense on practical grounds. It does seem as though all this stuff is joined at the root, as you might say. Madame Blavatsky, bless her heart, seems to be the source of *all* 20th century occultism. One line goes off into the Nazis. One that seems to go mainly through Alice Bailey leads to the New Age stuff. And one goes through Crowley and influences a whole range of more chaos-based stuff, everything from L. Ron Hubbard to the wiccans. But that's on the level of theory. In terms of sorting out distinct personalities and movements, keeping Heinberg and Dugin in different threads is probably best.

by **Dreams End** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:55 am

I added another thread. And note that, while I am very interested in purely ideological continuity, this in and of itself only proves that lots of folks like these various ideas. I'm curious about more deliberate manipulation of these ideas in the service of broader political agendas. So, is there signficance to the Crowley-Hubbard connection (Crowley thought he was an idiot) or did Hubbard just take that ball and run with it? And though I'm looking at the political angle...still keeping an eye out for the hand of "the nine". Oh...is Levanda's volume 2 out? gonna check. night.

Continuing the Heinberg/Shambhala discussion

Re: Here's something interesting on Dugin

Richard Boylan

Human potential movement and fascism

Is Dugin linked to racist violence?

Re: Is Dugin linked to racist violence?

Tart and De Palma

Re: Is Dugin linked to racist violence?

Re: Splitting the discussion

Re: Splitting the discussion

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