Continuing the Heinberg/Shambhala discussion

by **starroute** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:23 pm

The original Heinberg thread and Jeff's post based on it have both moved on, and I don't want to derail Dream's End's current thread explaining "veritas." However, the Shambhala/Inner Asia/Nazis/eugenics complex seems worthy of further exploration, so I'd like to continue it here, starting with some stuff I also put in my blog comments. Dream's End had posted something about Nazi expeditions to Tibet, and I had this reaction: This thread has gotten me thinking about Roy Chapman Andrews. As a dinosaur-crazy kid, I was fascinated by Andrews' account of discovering dinosaur eggs in the Gobi Desert. But in recent years, I was disillusioned to learn that the real impetus for his expecditions in the 1920's was a racist one -- the hope of proving that humans had originated in Inner Asia and not in Africa -- and that the dinosaur eggs were merely a by-product. Here are a few quotes I just dug up on him and his boss at the American Museum of Natural History, Henry Fairfield Osborn. Their mixture of racism, eugenics, a search for Asian origins, and sponsorship by the uber-wealthy seems indistinguishable from the Nazi interest of a decade later: <blockquote>Quote:<hr><a href="http://drydredgers.org/jack0303.htm">In 1908</a>, Henry Fairfield Osborn became the President of the American Museum of Natural History. He is most responsible for the Museum’s over twenty-year span of global exploration and collecting activities. Andrews and Osborn were both big thinkers with bountiful ambition and egos. Their association was profitable for them both. Andrews’ ambition continued to drive him back to the Orient. He was able to use Osborn’s theories to convince him to sponsor large expeditions in China and Mongolia. Osborn contended that central Asia had been the locus for the evolution and radiation of mammals including modern man. Others at the time felt that Africa was more likely but Osborn has been well documented as a racist and any thought of black Africa as the origin of modern man was anathema to him. Osborn was also a believer in eugenics - a popular movement in some circles in the early 20th century that advocated, among other things, sterilization of “lesser” individuals to help breed out inferior peoples for the betterment of the world. With Osborn’s beliefs in mind, Andrews conceived of what became the famous Central Asiatic Expeditions to China and Mongolia. Osborn agreed to partial funding from the Museum and made Andrews responsible to raise the additional funds. This is where Andrews’ salesmanship and self confidence really paid off. Having inserted himself into New York society, he gained audiences with some of the most powerful people in America. Not only did he meet them, he got committed funding from the likes of J. P. Morgan, Sidney Colgate, Cleveland Dodge, J. D. Rockefeller, and many others. Once he had money from the most important people, the society hanger’s-on followed suit “not to be left out.”<hr></blockquote> <blockquote>Quote:<hr><a href="http://www.strangescience.net/osborn.htm">Osborn lamented</a> what he saw as a decline in the human race . . . "The rise of primitive and of uncivilized man is subject to the same laws as those which prevail throughout the animal kingdom, until human civilization steps in and interferes with the natural orders of things. Thus when man begins to specialize and human races begin to intermingle, Nature loses control. It appears that the finest races of man, like the finest races of lower animals, arose when Nature had full control, and that civilized man is upsetting the divine order of human origin and progress. . . . In America the original pioneer stock is dying out; the foreign element is in the ascendency. . . . Purity of race is today found in but one nation — the Scandinavian; but Scandinavia has been seriously bled by emigration." . . . and he proposed a solution. " Care for the race, even if the individual must suffer — this must be the keynote of our future. This was the guiding principle which underlay all the discussions of the Second International Congress of Eugenics in 1921."<hr></blockquote> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=starroute>starroute</A> at: 11/5/05 12:32 pm

by **starroute** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:31 pm

In trying to pursue this topic further, I ran across this precis of an article about Nicholas Roerich: <a href="http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(gdtzl4qsr5kyiz55ajs3ut55)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,3,7;journal,6,7;linkingpublicationresults,1:300367,1">taylorandfrancis.metapres...1:300367,1</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The artist Nicholas Roerich, famous for his expeditions (1925-1928 and 1934-1936) to Central Asia and the Himalayas, was deeply fascinated by the Altai Mountains, which he visited in 1926 (even though he had emigrated from Soviet Russia in 1918 ). His interest in the region had partly to do with his scholarly theories about the origin of Eurasian cultures. Even more important were Roerich's occult beliefs. Ostensibly artistic and academic in nature, Roerich's expeditions were part of a larger effort to create a pan-Buddhist state that was to include southern Siberia, Mongolia, and Tibet. In the Altai, Roerich aimed to locate the legendary land of White Waters (Belovod'e) and build his capital there. Support for this 'Great Plan' came from American followers of Roerich's mystical teachings. In addition, by representing himself to Soviet authorities as someone who might foster anti-British resentment and pro-Russian feelings among the populations of Central Asia and Tibet, Roerich briefly piqued their interest. The Great Plan was never realised, but Roerich continued to believe in the Altai's magical properties.<hr></blockquote> Roerich's name is only vaguely familiar to me -- but now it seems like I'm going to have to go look him up and find out about his American followers.

by **Dreams End** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:44 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The artist Nicholas Roerich, famous for his expeditions (1925-1928 and 1934-1936) to Central Asia and the Himalayas, was deeply fascinated by the Altai Mountains,<hr></blockquote> Altai mountains, yes! Ahem...I mean... Yes, I think one way to distinguish Nazi use of the myths from other such uses, (i.e. please no one come around here and say we are claiming anyone who looks for Atlantis is a Nazi) is how they take these several legends and try to place them into a particular place to reinforce the idea of a super-race which has "degenerated." naturally, we know what race that is. I think the particular emphasis on the altai region was telling, as this is Russian, or, more precisely, Eurasian and the exact spot Dugin has in mind for his own origin stories. I didn't get into it, but in other places, Heinberg speaks of civilization as a "disease", likely brought on by catastrophes of some sort. Interestingly, I just ran across an article that suggests that the Nazis had a myth of a comet or giant ice ball hitting the earth and scatttering the Indo-Europeans across the land. Of course, they thought the Moon was made of ice as well, if I recall. Sadly, LAST NIGHT, there was a national geographic program on about the Nazi expeditions...and the blurb did use the plural, which I missed, as I was actually reading Jeff's blog and this board at the time! Thanks for the links. Good stuff.

by **Dreams End** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:58 pm

More RH....just to collect <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I think we probably can't (support the growing population). We're approaching the population bottleneck. I write in both of my books about the population problem and make a few suggestions, not original with me but suggestions from people who understand population issues, as to how we can gradually reduce global population. I'm not particularly saying we're going to do any of those things, I think that over the course of the 21st century we'll see a culling of the population by starvation and famine and epidemics. <a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2005/9/24/233315/937">www.theoildrum.com/story/...233315/937</a><hr></blockquote> Note, this was AFTER he complained about being called a "doom and gloomer". LOL.

by **starroute** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:26 pm

I pulled out Jocelyn Godwin's invaluable "Arktos: The Polar Myth" and found Roerich described there -- not surprisingly, in a chapter called "Shambhala" -- in connection with an amazing number of the themes that have been of concern here. Here are some quotes: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>On quite another plane is the contribution to the Shambhala mythologies made in the 1920s and 1930s by the Roerich family: Nicholas, the painter and worker for world peace; Helena, his wife and channel for the Master Morya; and their son George, later a professor at Yale University. The Roerichs made an expedition through China and Mongolia to the borders of Tibet in 1925-1928, as the result of which they published several books of travel and reflections, one of them, by Nicholas, entitled precisely Shambhala. Nicholas Roerich saw in Shambhala the symbol of the coming age of world peace and enlightenment . . . His expedition had a deep spiritual, even a magical intention -- and a political one, too. . . . When he found in the Altai mountains menhirs, stone circles, and alignments just like those of Britain and Brittany, and when he saw among the inhabitants features that could have been those of Frenchmen or Spaniards, Roerich concluded that the migration had in fact taken the best and most couragous of the Central Asian people on a journey to the shores of the Atlantic. . . . The religion of Roerich's Shambhala, if one can call it that, centered around Fire. Nicholas connects it with the ancient cults of Fire and the Sun, whose Swastika symbol he found repeatedly carved on rocks and painted on tankas. . . . L:ike the Treatise on Cosmic Fire of Alice Bailey and Djhwal Khul, Helena Roerich's and Morya's books on "Agni Yoga" are devoted to explaining, with more elaboration than clarity, what the Agni or Fire of Shambhala is, and how it will function in the New Era: it is the "great eternal energy, this fine imponderable matter which is scattered everywhere and is within our use at any moment." This could be a definition of Bulwer Lytton's Vril force. . . . On 5 August 1927, in the Kukunor district, the Roerich party witnessed a classic UFO, twenty years before the "official" beginning of the phenomenon with Kenneth Arnold's sighting in 1947. . . . The lama with the party remarks: "A very good sign. We are protected. Rigden-jyepo himself is looking after us!" In the Roerichs' books, Rigden-jyepo is the prophesied Lord of the New Era of Shambhala, who is currently preparing an invincible army. He is the "Ruler of the World," and none less than Maitreya, the Last Avatar who brings the Kali Yuga to an end and opens the new Krita or Satya Yuga. The Roerich's did not expect to have to wait long for this apocalyptic event . . . We learned in Chapter Six who was cast in this role by Miguel Serrano, an admirer of Roerich's paintings and a sharer of much of his philosophy. . . . There is a hint that the Roerich Expedition had an active part to play in this changing of the Ages. It concerns a Stone from a distant star that belongs to Shambhala . . . Andrew Tomas, who says that he heard from Professor [George] Roerich that the stone supposedly came from Sirius, interprets the broad hints in Helena Roerich's On Eastern Crossroads to mean that a small fragment of the central Stone had been sent to Europe to aid in the foundation of the League of Nations, and that it was returned to Shamghala by Nicholas Roerich on his expedition.<hr></blockquote> And Miguel Serrano, referred to above as an admirer of Roerich? Here's what Godwin has to say about him: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>An extreme case of the reversal of all accepted views is that of Miguel Serrano (born 1917), who was Chile's Ambassador to India (1953-62), Yugoslavia (1962-64), and Austria (1964-70), and member of various international commissions. . . . Serrano is a major figure, which makes it all the more important to know what really lies behind his polished and poetic work. This is to be found in his 600-page philosophical summa, entitled Adolph Hitler, el Ultimo Avatara (Adolph Hitler, the last avatar, 1984), which is dedicated "To the glory of the Fuhrer, Adolph Hitler." El Ultimo Avatara is probably the fullest modern statement of the Thulean philosophy in any language. We are to understand the title quite literally: Serrano means that Hitler is the Tenth Avatar of Vishnu, the Kalki Avator, who has incarnated to bring about the end of the Kali Yuga and usher in a New Age. . . . But to understand the necessity for such an avatar, it is necessary to go far back in time, to the beings who arrived on earth from outside the galaxy and founded the "First Hyperborea." . . . These Hyperboreans commanded the power of Vril and possessed the Third Eye; they did not reproduce sexually, but through plasmic emanation from their own bodies, while through their veins coursed the light of the Black Sun.<hr></blockquote>

by **cortez** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:24 pm

From The Chicago Tribune News Service <a href="http://www.atlantis.to/links/explorersfindelusiveshangri.htm">EXPLORERS FIND ELUSIVE SHANGRI-LA IN WORLD'S DEEPEST KNOWN GORGE</a> No record exists of people ever having seen the 100 foot-high waterfall and lush subtropical garden in the Tibetan Himalayas until now WASHINGTON - Explorers finally have found Shangri-La. It might not be quite the storied, verdant, Utopia Himalayan paradise of James Hilton's 1933 novel "Lost Horizon" and subsequent movie of the same name. But it is verdant, it is a kind of paradise, and it is hidden deep within Tibet's Himalayas in a monstrously steep gorge within a gorge. There is no record of any person having visited, or even seen, the area before. Tucked beneath a mountain spur at a sharp bend of the Tsangpo River Gorge, where the cliff sides are only 75 yards apart and cast perpetual shadows, the place failed to show up even on satellite surveillance photographs of the area. "If there is a Shangri-La , this is it," said Rebecca Martin, director of the National Geographic Society's Expeditions Board, which sponsored the trek. "This is a pretty startling discovery, especially in a time when many people are saying, "What's left to discover?" Tentatively named by the explorers the Hidden Falls of the Tsangpo and located in a forbidding region called Pemako that Tibetans consider highly sacred, the elusive site was reached by American explorers Ian Baker, Ken Storm Jr. and Brian Harvey late last year, though the society did not make its confirmation of their success official until Thursday. In addition to a spectacular 100-foot-high waterfall- long rumored but until now undocumented- they found a subtropical garden between a 23,000 foot and a 26,000 foot mountain, at the bottom of a 4,000 foot high cliff. According to Martin, it's the world' deepest mountain gorge. "It's a place teeming with life." Storm said in telephone interview from his office in the Minneapolis suburb of Burnsville. "It's a terribly wild river, with many small waterfalls, heavy rapids and a tremendous current surging through. Yet there are all kinds of flora; subtropical pine, rhododendrons, craggy fir and hemlock and spruce on the hillsides. It's lush. Just a tremendous wild garden landscape." The animals there include a rare, horned creature called the Takin, sacred to Tibetan Buddhists. Difficult as the gorge was to reach, Storm said one of the hardest aspects of the expedition was leaving to return to civilization. "The last we saw of it was looking down... with clouds sealing the gorge and side-stream waterfalls jetting out into the river," he said. "it's probably the most romantic landscape I'd ever seen." This was the seventh expedition that Baker, a Tibet scholar living in Katmandu, led into the Himalayas in search of the mythic falls. In addition to Storm, a book and game dealer turned explorer, and Harvey, a National Geographic photographer, the team included another scholar, Hamid Sardar of Cambridge, Mass., two Tibetan hunters, a Sherpa guide and eight porters - though Baker, Storm and Harvey were the only ones to make the demanding descent to the gorge and falls. Among other things, their discovery proves that two great rivers of Asia - the Tsangpo, which runs completely across Tibet, and the mighty Brahmaputra, which runs through the Indian state of Assam and Bangladesh to the Bay of Bengal--are connected. Reminiscent of the fabled "source of the Nile" that English explorers Richard Burton and John Spede raced each other to find in the middle of the 19th century--both making controversial claims to have found it first--the Tsangpo falls and gorge proved so far beyond explorers' reach that they were declared nonexistant. The southern approach up the Brahmaputra posed the most obstacles. "It's tremendously difficult terrain of jungles and insects and tigers," Storm said. "The lower gorge area was protected by Abhors and Mishmi, Burmese tribal groups. They protected that area pretty fiercely, and early British attempts to penetrate were frustrated." In 1911, two British explorers were able to locate all but 30 to 40 miles of the river connection. A local guide named Kintup was later hired to continue into the inner gorge and try to find the sacred place by traveling as a Buddhist pilgrim. He claimed to have found a connection between the two rivers but said the only high waterfall was not on the Tsangpo but up a smaller tributary. In 1924, British botanist Francis Kingdon-Ward advanced to a point that narrowed the unknown stretch of the river to three or four miles. He found a waterfall as well but measured it at only 30 feet. Finding further penetration impossible because of the steepness and narrowness of the gorge and bad weather, he turned back, declaring the long sought high falls nonexistent. Although the Tsangpo River starts at 7,000 feet above sea level, it rapidly descends and cuts through the Tibet plateau by way of the only gap in the Himalayas open to the heavy weather of the Indian plains and wetlands below. "The weather pours up from Assam, which is one of the wettest places on Earth, and you have notoriously terrible weather in there." Storm said. "You can go weeks if not months with clouds and rains and snow at the higher elevation. You have a river literally eating its way through these mountains in this great gorge." Lasting 17 days, Baker's expedition approached the Tsangpo from the north, following animal trails and the advice of their Tibetan hunters and descending some 4,000 feet. Using mountaineers' ropes to get down the last 80 feet of the cliff, they found themselves at the "great falls," which they measured with laser range finders - a Shangri-La just a quarter of a mile from where Kingdon-Ward turned back. "It's a powerful sight to experience," said Storm, who said he plans to return. "it's a rather humbling feeling just to have taken part." - END

by **glubglubglub** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:22 pm

is that ethnolinguistically the Altai mountains were home to a people likely encompassing: i) the finns + lapps ii) the hungarians iii) various roman-era barbarians further east than the germans. iv) eventually the Japanese (pretty much the only people who don't think Japanese is altaic are the Japanese for reasons of ethnic pride) + Korean + Manchus + (I think) Mongolians linguistic gps. (though ethnically the assumption is the v) turks + their cousins and, although some attempts have been made at showing a common linguistic origin of the indo-european and uralo-altaic languages, none of those attempts looks very credible. Why ironic? Those folks looking for a mythical great founding indo-european race lurking about in the altai mountains are probably, in fact, going to find Turks or their cousins -- and most certainly not indo-europeans when all's said and done; meanwhile, those sympathetic to this shambolic quest for shangrila are also heavily represented among that 'MOST JEWS ARE REALLY TURKISH KHAZARS, NOT SEMITIC JEWS!' crowd, which at least to me puts them in an exceedingly ironic + contradictory situation.

by **starroute** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:18 pm

Can anyone confirm it? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Roerich">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Roerich</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Roerich's influence on his devotee cabinet secretary Henry A. Wallace led to the inclusion of the Great Seal of the United States on the U.S. dollar bill known for the depiction of the Great Pyramid topped with an all-seeing eye — a religious, occult and Masonic symbol.<hr></blockquote> On edit - found this: <a href="http://fusionanomaly.net/nicholasroerich.html">fusionanomaly.net/nicholasroerich.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Henry A. Wallace, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's two-term secretary of agriculture, sampled a great many religious creeds, studying Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Islam, and Christian Science, among others. He also investigated secret societies and Eastern cults, developing a fondness for the arcane symbols and practices favored by such groups. By the time he entered politics, Wallace had incorporated bits and pieces of these many forms of worship and internal linkmagic into a highly idiosyncratic religious view. He would later describe his personal faith as a form of pantheism in which science, nature, and religion were all one and the same - this in an era when Middle America was not so tolerant of exotic spiritual ideas as it would later become. Not long after Wallace assumed his post at the Department of Agriculture, he became acquainted with a strangely charismtic Russian emigre named Nikolay Konstantinovich Roerich. A painter by profession, Roerich looked more like a Chinese alchemist or perhaps a Buddhist monk. He was a small man with a bald head, a long white goatee, and a soothingly quiet voice. The Russian had achieved his most lasting notoriety in 1913, when he designed sets and costumes for the premier in Paris of Igor Stravinsky's controversial ballet _The Rite Of Spring_, which had featured dancer Vaslav Nijinsky. By 1933 however, Roerich's artistic contributions were largely behind him, and he had given himself over to consuming interests in Russian politics and mystical experience. . . . Among his supporters in Europe were the Nobel Prize-winning Hindu poet Rabindranath Tagore and composer Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov. But Roerich found a particularly warm embrace in the United States, where he attracted a circle of wealthy devotees. . . . Wallace pursuaded his fellow cabinet officer, Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau, Jr., to make a change in the U.S. currency. An exotic-looking symbol of a pyramid with an all-seeing eye at its apex had long been part of the Great Seal of the United States. At Roerich'surging, Wallace convinced his colleague to make the symbol a fixture on the back of every one-dollar bill. Morgenthau later claimed that it was not until after the change had been made that he learned of the pyramid's "cabalistic significance for members of a small religious sect." . . . "Better than the surrealists, though, is good old Nick Roerich, whose joint at Riverside Drive and 103rd Street is one of my shrines in the pest zone. There is something in his handling of perspective and atmosphere which to me suggests other dimensions and alien orders of being--or at least, the gateways leading to such. Those fantastic carven stones in lonely upland deserts--those ominous, almost sentient, lines of jagged pinnacles--and above all, those curious cubical edifices clinging to precipitous slopes and edging upward to forbidden needle-like peaks!" (to James F. Morton, March 1937) - H.P. Lovecraft <hr></blockquote> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=starroute>starroute</A> at: 11/5/05 4:34 pm

by **Dreams End** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:52 pm

I'm really not sure we are going to like what we unravel here. I've been nosing around the New Dawn magazine. Richard K. Moore writes a lot of the New World Order but doesn't say much that would be too objectionable around here...a bit vague but he quotes Parenti, Greider, etc. He has his own site, but other than that, he seems to have no other history I can find. But then I got to "Valum Votan". He seems to be a Lyn Andrews, cultural rip off artist and he preaches about....2012, but of course I think the mythology of that date comes from Mayans so maybe that's not a big deal. But check his symbol. <img src="http://www.lawoftime.org/graphics/logo.gif" style="border:0;"/> See the circle with the three dots? Yep. That's Roerich's symbol...actually, I just went to his museum site here: http://www.roerich.org/nr.html?mid=pact With this image here: <img src="http://www.roerich.org/images/roerich_pact.jpg" style="border:0;"/> The text says: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Nicholas Roerich was involved throughout his career with the problems of cultural preservation. From an early age, when, as a teen-age amateur archeologist in the north of Russia, he unearthed rare and beautiful ancient artifacts, he realized that the best products of humanity's creative genius were almost always neglected, or even destroyed, by humanity itself. In the earliest years of twentieth century, he traveled through the historic towns of Northern Russia, making paintings of their crumbling walls and deteriorating architecture. He then made appeals to the Russian government for efforts to maintain and restore these priceless links to the past. Later it was the devastations of the first World War and the Russian revolution that spurred his own efforts. He came to realize that the cultural heritage of each nation is in essence a world treasure. And his idea of cultural heritage broadened to include more than just the physical remains of earlier cultures—the buildings and art, for example—but also the creative activities, the universities, the libraries, the hospitals, the concert halls and theaters. All must be protected from the ravages of war and neglect, for without them life would be nothing but a rude and ignorant time on earth. It became clear to Roerich that an international effort was required. During the nineteen-twenties, he composed a treaty with the assistance of international legal experts. This treaty came to be known as The Roerich Pact. The Roerich Pact and Banner of Peace movement grew rapidly during the early nineteen-thirties, with centers in a number of countries. There were three international conferences, in Bruges, Belgium, in Montevideo, Uruguay, and in Washington, D.C. The Pact itself declared the necessity for protection of the cultural product and activity of the world—both during war and peace—and prescribed the method by which all sites of cultural value would be declared neutral and protected, just as the Red Cross does with hospitals. Indeed, the Roerich Pact was often called The Red Cross of Culture. Just as the Red Cross is embodied in a protective sign and banner, so does the Roerich Pact also designate a symbol—the one seen on this page—to be displayed on a banner, The Banner of Peace. This Banner, flown at all sites of cultural activity and historical value, would declare them neutral, independent of combatant forces. The Banner of Peace symbol has ancient origins. Perhaps its earliest known example appears on Stone Age amulets: three dots, without the enclosing circle. Roerich came across numerous later examples in various parts of the world, and knew that it represented a deep and sophisticated understanding of the triune nature of existence. But for the purposes of the Banner and the Pact, Roerich described the circle as representing the totality of culture, with the three dots being Art, Science, and Religion, three of the most embracing of human cultural activities. He also described the circle as representing the eternity of time, encompassing the past, present, and future. The sacred origins of the symbol, as an illustration of the trinities fundamental to all religions, remain central to the meaning of the Pact and the Banner today. The Roerich Pact was first agreed to by twenty-one nations of the Americas and signed as a treaty in the White House, in the presence of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, on April 15, 1935, by all the members of the Pan-American Union. It was later signed by other countries also. The year 2005 marks the seventieth anniversary of the signing of the Roerich Pact. The history of international treaties shows us how many of them were relevant and applicable to the times in which they were signed, but then lapsed into irrelevance. The Roerich Pact, however, has kept its heart and its life, and is linked to the needs of today’s chaotic world as much as ever. In so many countries we see a deterioration of cultural values and a disregard for the right of all cultural treasures to have their own continued existence, forever protected and unimpeded. We see destruction of life, property, and the inheritance of the creative genius of the nations. One can only hope that a greater awareness of the importance of humanity’s cultural heritage will increase, rather than deteriorate. There is no greater value to a nation than its culture. The text of The Roerich Pact, and of President Roosevelt's message to the United States Congress on the occasion of its ratification, follow: <hr></blockquote> The pact itself seems harmless. Signed by Henry Wallace. But does anyone know about this three dots symbol? "Banner of Peace". How about "Valum Votan"?

by **Dreams End** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:56 pm

f*&^ing hell man: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Valum Votan has been recognized as the prophetic messenger of the closing of the cycle -2012- by spiritual leaders as diverse as the Archbishop of the Coptic Orthodox Church of St. Petersburg, Maori elders of New Zealand and shamans of Altai in Central Asia.<hr></blockquote> Two out of three = Eurasian movement. This is a deep pool we've waded into. And I'll bet Maori elders is bullshit. In fact, it's probably all bullshit. Levanda in "Sinister Forces" talks a lot about the connection between occult types and all these spinoff "Orthodox" churches (wandering bishops, etc.). Wonder if there's a connection? <a href="http://www.lawoftime.org/about/valum.html">www.lawoftime.org/about/valum.html</a>

by **Dreams End** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:03 pm

Okley dokley. I'm getting the picture here. From a page about the "World Summit of Peace and Time" (ole val thinks changing to a lunar calendar will bring on the earthchanges or some such): <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The Summit opened with a prayer ceremony by Rev. Yusen Yamato, followed by the opening address of Dr. Rodrigo Carazo, former president of Costa Rica and founder of the University for Peace. In attendance with Dr. Carazo was Gerardo Budowski, acting Rector and representative of the newly appointed President of the University for Peace, Maurice Strong. Following her welcoming remarks, Mrs. Lloydine ArgŸelles introduced her husband, Dr. JosŽ ArgŸelles, who formally convened the Summit with a prepared statement, "Calendar Reform and the Future of Civilization," outlining the Summit's purposes and objectives. Finally, Dr. Ashok Gangadean, of the Global Dialogue Institute, the Summit's On-site Coordinator, laid out the ground rules for the Seven Commissions.<hr></blockquote> Edit...forgot link: <a href="http://www.earthportals.com/Portal_Messenger/reviewcon.html">www.earthportals.com/Port...ewcon.html</a> This may be old hat for some of you, but I'm having a little freak out over here. Please note this. We have, on the one hand, Strong and company of "NWO/One world government" fame. Now, we rational folks don't like the NWO, but also railing against it are fascists like Dugin. On sites like new Dawn. But also on New Dawn is Valum...with ties to Strong. Are we seeing Hegelian dialectics in action or am I losing it. Several sets of eyes on this stuff would help keep me from going to stream of consciousness on this. And CALENDAR REFORM??? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 11/5/05 6:04 pm

by **starroute** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:55 pm

I can't say I'm up to speed on any of this -- but I've just been googling on University for Peace, and what comes up all seems to lead to either (1) Mayan calendar technobabble and/or (2) Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust stuff. In other words, pure-quill New Agery. That seems straightforward enough. Now, when I google on Dugin and NWO, I get things like this, from New Dawn: <a href="http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/Articles/Russia_vs_New_World_Order.html">www.newdawnmagazine.com/A...Order.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>At the September 2000 meeting of the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez characterised the rising discontent with the US inspired New World Order when he stated: “The 20th century was a bipolar century, but the 21st is not going to be unipolar. The 21st century should be multipolar, and we all ought to push for the development of such a world. So, long live a united Asia, a united Africa, a united Europe!” The New World Order, a euphemism for US hegemony, is based upon a unipolar concept of the world, meaning US superpower domination. What is developing, however, is a multipolar world, implying many centres of influence, including Russia. The Russian Federation considers that social progress, stability and international security can only be guaranteed in the framework of a multipolar world and resents attempts by the US to marginalise Moscow in world affairs. Hence, Russia has become a political, military and cultural thorn in the side of the New World Order, representing an obstacle to its goals. Following the end of the Cold War, US President George Bush declared a New World Order, in which the heavy hand of American imperialism would fill the post Cold War geopolitical vacuum, enabling the US to ultimately conquer the geopolitical space of the former Soviet Union and interpose its authority over all of Europe.<hr></blockquote> So isn't it possible that the NWO Dugin is railing against is purely the George H.W. Bush hegemonic New World Order and has nothing to do with the Blavatsky/Alice Bailey/Roerich line of stuff? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=starroute>starroute</A> at: 11/5/05 7:55 pm

by **Homeless Halo** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:17 pm

Re: three dots. Supernal realm. Above the abyss. Similar to the "scissors" hand gesture, has distinct specific meaning in various cults, but roughly translates to the same thing. Symbolic of the realm beyond dualistic logic, etc. I've used it dozens of times here, myself. Its used in various lodges. Think A:.A:. (Rumored to possibly be ACTUALLY referencing the stars in the Sirius system, btw)

by **starroute** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:29 pm

<a href="http://www.thoughtcrimenews.com/rfpi.htm">www.thoughtcrimenews.com/rfpi.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The UN, Globalisation and the Battle for the Airwaves by Simon Aronowitz 12th August 2003 A week ago I received an email which appeared to be one big spoof. . . . Radio For Peace International (RFPI), broadcasting from the University for Peace (UP) in Costa Rica was facing eviction from its own premises whilst armed guards maintained a very visible presence. I had not paid too much attention to the content of the email. After all, it was a joke, right? "UN denies us our human rights" was the spin so obviously it wasn't to be taken seriously. But to satisfy my curiosity, I dug into the story and found that not only was it true, but was probably the tip of a much bigger iceberg. In an interview with Jean Parker, a member of the Board of Directors for RFPI, it emerged that perhaps the main reason that RFPI was facing eviction was because its programming was at odds with the direction that the new administration wished to go with the University, a UN-mandated organisation. RFPI was established on the University for Peace's campus in the 1980's. Since its inception the station has worked well with successive administrations of the University, broadcasting UP and UN programming. However since billionaire mover and shaker Maurice Strong took over the Presidency of the University Council, it was decided that the relationship between UP and RFPI "should be terminated". This decision was made following informal discussions between the Rector of UP and RFPI. Parker stated that "the new administration headed by Maurice Strong seems to be very oriented to the corporate sector as opposed to the NGO sector. Many of the Council members who were formerly on the Council of the University have been replaced by business people, not NGO or public sector people." She further alleged that Council members were unaware of decisions taken in their name. It appears that the content of RFPI's broadcasts are a key reason for UP to sever relations as Parker explained: "Radio for Peace is broadcasting programmes that are questioning and criticising things like the World Bank, International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Trade Organisation (WTO) and other aspects of so-called `free-trade' - free for some people and costly for most."<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.worldofradio.com/dxld3146.txt">www.worldofradio.com/dxld3146.txt</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I think Maurice Strong is attempting to censor RFPI and I hope he knows the world is watching. As I research this man, Maurice Strong, I am convinced that he has a hidden agenda and that is why he is silencing RFPI. The UN property UPAZ occupies seems to exist in a place outside of any laws or government overview. That gives him a lot of leeway. Look up the OmCED Organization, read the 400? page annual report they put out, see that they exist under the umbrella of the Earth Council, of which Maurice Strong is President. There are only 2 EC employees, or at least that`s what they said when I called. Look at the financial report for OmCED. Why can't we find one for Earth Council. Look at the Carbon Trading market approach: Earth Council has a formal agreement with the CR government to run this. Then look at Strong`s Kyoto Protocol, see how much money there is to be made selling Carbon Trade Offsets, i.e. rainforest in Costa Rica to polluting energy companies who refuse or can't meet the emissions reduction requirements in the Kyoto Protocol. I am wondering if the UPAZ no accountability umbrella is being misused by this guy to move money. Both the EC and OmCED are housed at UPAZ. What are the development plans for the property? In an old press release I found on the web I see that he said he intends to build a "Upeace village of residences, hotels and conference and commercial facilities" --- Is this why he is trying to move RFPI out???? Do the local residents know that? What kind of planning process does CR have and is the UPAZ property exempt?<hr></blockquote>

by **Dreams End** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:31 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>So isn't it possible that the NWO Dugin is railing against is purely the George H.W. Bush hegemonic New World Order and has nothing to do with the Blavatsky/Alice Bailey/Roerich line of stuff?<hr></blockquote> Dugin is USING the Roerich line of thought. That's what's so confusing. He's PART of that line and yet Dugin and, especially, the National Bolshevik Party, are railing against this same sort of stuff. Limonov, the guy who took over the NBP after Dugin left it, had a whole piece on how he stood up to Soros when Soros came to a meeting in Russia (I think maybe the Russian peace conference.) You have BOTH sides represented on New Dawn but as if there is no conflict. I really am confused about it all. I'm short of time now, and I realize the above was as clear as mud, but the bottom line seems to be that if you trace the "antagonists" back far enough, they are playing for the same team. Consider this just me thinking out loud at the moment, as I'm really just getting into this.

Continuing the Heinberg/Shambhala discussion

Continuing the Heinberg/Shambhala discussion

Re: Nicholas Roerich

Re: Nicholas Roerich

Re: Nicholas Roerich

More on Roerich

SHANGRI-LA

a truly bizarre + ironic sidenote

This is odd if true

Re: This is odd if true

Re: This is odd if true

Re: This is odd if true

It may depend on the meaning of NWO

DE:

University for Peace and Maurice Strong

Re: University for Peace and Maurice Strong

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