I Am A Strange Loop - Douglas R. Hofstadter

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

I Am A Strange Loop - Douglas R. Hofstadter

Postby brownzeroed » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:06 pm

Just finished this book. Highly recommend it.

Link
HERE

Here's a good review by George Johnston via Scientific American:

To get into a properly loopy mind-set for Douglas R. Hofstadter's new book on consciousness, I plugged a Webcam into my desktop computer and pointed it at the screen. In the first instant, an image of the screen appeared on the screen and then the screen inside the screen. Cycling round and round, the video signal rapidly gave rise to a long corridor leading toward a patch of shimmering blue, beckoning like the light at the end of death's tunnel.

Giving the camera a twist, I watched as the regress of rectangles took on a spiraling shape spinning fibonaccily deeper into nowhere. Somewhere along the way a spot of red--a glint of sunlight, I later realized--became caught in the swirl, which slowly congealed into a planet of red continents and blue seas. Zooming in closer, I explored a surface that was erupting with yellow, orange and green volcanoes. Like Homer Simpson putting a fork inside the microwave, I feared for a moment that I had ruptured the very fabric of space and time.

In I Am a Strange Loop, Hofstadter, a cognitive and computer scientist at Indiana University, describes a more elaborate experiment with video feedback that he did many years ago at Stanford University. By that time he had become obsessed with the paradoxical nature of Gödel's theorem, with its formulas that speak of themselves. Over the years this and other loopiness--Escher's drawings of hands drawing hands, Bach's involuted fugues--were added to the stew, along with the conviction that all of this had something to do with consciousness. What finally emerged, in 1979, was Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid, one of the most captivating books I have ever read.

I still remember standing in the aisle of a bookstore in Washington, D.C., where I had just finished graduate school, devouring the pages. GEB, as the author calls it, is not so much a "read" as an experience, a total immersion into Hofstadter's mind. It is a great place to be, and for those without time for the scenic route, I Am a Strange Loop pulls out the big themes and develops them into a more focused picture of consciousness.

Think of your eyes as that video camera, but with a significant upgrade: a mechanism, the brain, that not only registers images but abstracts them, arranging and constantly rearranging the data into mental structures--symbols, Hofstadter calls them--that stand as proxies for the exterior world. Along with your models of things and places are symbols for each of your friends, family members and colleagues, some so rich that the people almost live in your head.

Among this library of simulations there is naturally one of yourself, and that is where the strangeness begins.
"You make decisions, take actions, affect the world, receive feedback from the world, incorporate it into yourself, then the updated 'you' makes more decisions, and so forth, round and round," Hofstadter writes. What blossoms from the Gödelian vortex--this symbol system with the power to represent itself--is the "anatomically invisible, terribly murky thing called I." A self, or, to use the name he favors, a soul.

It need know nothing of neurons. Sealed off from the biological substrate, the actors in the internal drama are not things like "serotonin" or "synapse" or even "cerebrum," "hippocampus" or "cerebellum" but abstractions with names like "love," "jealousy," "hope" and "regret."

And that is what leads to the grand illusion. "In the soft, ethereal, neurology-free world of these players," the author writes, "the typical human brain perceives its very own 'I' as a pusher and a mover, never entertaining for a moment the idea that its star player might merely be a useful shorthand standing for a myriad infinitesimal entities and the invisible chemical transactions taking place among them."


Article continues:[url=http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=C7265AEC-E7F2-99DF-3B3A60DE6200D457&pageNumber=2&catID=2[url]HERE[/url]



I'd also recommend Hofstadter's Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid.
Both are equal parts science to poetics.
brownzeroed
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: I Am A Strange Loop - Douglas R. Hofstadter

Postby monster » Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:17 am

brownzeroed wrote:I'd also recommend Hofstadter's Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid.
Both are equal parts science to poetics.


Oh hell yeah; I only grokked like 5% of Godel, Escher, Bach, but I'm a better person for it.

Complex, but rewarding.

I'm going to check out the article now.
User avatar
monster
 
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:55 pm
Location: Everywhere
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby brownzeroed » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:26 am

Oh hell yeah; I only grokked like 5% of Godel, Escher, Bach, but I'm a better person for it.

Complex, but rewarding.

I'm going to check out the article now.


Yeah, his writing is a bit thick (in a good way) but lots of fun.
I don't agree with everything Johnston says about the book but I like him.
I'm just glad to see some scientists with serious creative and spiritual curiosity. Science writers should get people to move and these guys do that.
brownzeroed
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:11 am

That was an awesome book (Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid).

I dunno if I got any of it. Tho I read it wayyyy back in the 80s, before i had done any psychedelics. What i remember of it makes more sense today after messing my head up. tho i have always loved bachs fugues, there is something about the way the music resolves itself that just seems so appropriate.

I ended up at a media students place once, and they were doing that feedback loop thing, with a camera and a tv screen, back before flat screens, so the curve of the tv screen really contributed to the feedback.

The patterns were psychedelic, remarkably similar to the displays on the back of the eyelids when you are tripping.

I'm sure there is somehing in that too, tho I dunno what. :wink:

Another of his books, the minds eye, or I was pretty good too.
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10622
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby brownzeroed » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:34 am

That was an awesome book (Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid).

I dunno if I got any of it.


I don't know if he did either :D
But at least he's giving it a shot.

I ended up at a media students place once, and they were doing that feedback loop thing, with a camera and a tv screen, back before flat screens, so the curve of the tv screen really contributed to the feedback.


I was obsessed with feedback loops back in the nineties. In fact I just put one of my old (naive) shorts, w/ loops, up on youtube.

And yes, Fibonacci spirals and sequences seem to be popping up everywhere, these days. Even behind tripping eyelids :D

Have you ever played w/ a "Dream Machine"? That's usually phase 2 on the ride. Much more manageable than chems.

After reading a book like this I really miss being brave enough to take copious amounts of hallucinogens but then I remind myself that the flashbacks are intense enough.

Does anyone have a book to recommend about Godel, specifically?
brownzeroed
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby jingofever » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:45 pm

brownzeroed wrote:Does anyone have a book to recommend about Godel, specifically?


Do you mean Godel the man, or his theorems? If it is his theorems you are after, doesn't Hofstadter recommend Godel's Proof by Nagel and Newman? If you don't mind getting into the math and can find it cheap, go with Godel's Incompleteness Theorems by Raymond Smullyan.
User avatar
jingofever
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby brownzeroed » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:46 am

Do you mean Godel the man, or his theorems?


Both! Thanks for the leads.
brownzeroed
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:17 am

brownzeroed wrote:
That was an awesome book (Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid).

I dunno if I got any of it.


I don't know if he did either :D
But at least he's giving it a shot.

I ended up at a media students place once, and they were doing that feedback loop thing, with a camera and a tv screen, back before flat screens, so the curve of the tv screen really contributed to the feedback.


I was obsessed with feedback loops back in the nineties. In fact I just put one of my old (naive) shorts, w/ loops, up on youtube.

And yes, Fibonacci spirals and sequences seem to be popping up everywhere, these days. Even behind tripping eyelids :D

Have you ever played w/ a "Dream Machine"? That's usually phase 2 on the ride. Much more manageable than chems.

After reading a book like this I really miss being brave enough to take copious amounts of hallucinogens but then I remind myself that the flashbacks are intense enough.


Yeah getting olds a bitch hey. I feel the same way, must be getting soft.

I never used a dream machine perse but have done some weird experiments with similar homemade hings over the years. very confusing actually.

These days I don't want to have any potential seizure inducing devices around (although we have a tv) , so a dream machine is out of the question.

Any links to your youtube postings btw?
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10622
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby brownzeroed » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:46 am

These days I don't want to have any potential seizure inducing devices around (although we have a tv) , so a dream machine is out of the question.


So sorry. I forgot to mention that.

Any links to your youtube postings btw?


EDITED. I'm sorry. I have to remove the following..
brownzeroed
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)


Return to The Lounge & Member News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests