Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby jakell » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:20 pm

American Dream » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:07 pm wrote:So, jakell, inviting your commentary on where you definitively part paths from National Anarchism, Third Position, White Pride, Holocaust Revisionism, that sort of thing. Let's hear your strongest critique, please.


That's rather a lot of subjects to put in one basket, and to then give the rather vague title of 'that sort of thing'. It's almost like your own thinking on this is fuzzy and careless.

I'm sure that this is not the case, but please try to ask a more specific question.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby American Dream » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:27 pm

jakell » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:20 pm wrote:
American Dream » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:07 pm wrote:So, jakell, inviting your commentary on where you definitively part paths from National Anarchism, Third Position, White Pride, Holocaust Revisionism, that sort of thing. Let's hear your strongest critique, please.


That's rather a lot of subjects to put in one basket, and to then give the rather vague title of 'that sort of thing'. It's almost like your own thinking on this is fuzzy and careless.

I'm sure that this is not the case, but please try to ask a more specific question.


So, jakell, inviting your commentary on where you definitively part paths from that realm of political praxis commonly derided as neo-Fascism and/or White Supremacy. Proponents package their beliefs under a variety of labels, including: National Anarchism, Third Position, White Pride, Holocaust Revisionism, that sort of thing. Let's hear your strongest critique, please.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby jakell » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:37 pm

American Dream » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:27 pm wrote:
jakell » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:20 pm wrote:
American Dream » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:07 pm wrote:So, jakell, inviting your commentary on where you definitively part paths from National Anarchism, Third Position, White Pride, Holocaust Revisionism, that sort of thing. Let's hear your strongest critique, please.


That's rather a lot of subjects to put in one basket, and to then give the rather vague title of 'that sort of thing'. It's almost like your own thinking on this is fuzzy and careless.

I'm sure that this is not the case, but please try to ask a more specific question.


So, jakell, inviting your commentary on where you definitively part paths from that realm of political praxis commonly derided as neo-Fascism and/or White Supremacy. Proponents package their beliefs under a variety of labels, including: National Anarchism, Third Position, White Pride, Holocaust Revisionism, that sort of thing. Let's hear your strongest critique, please.


Still woolly. Can I suggest you ask me a question such as "where do you stand on the subject of white supremacy?", for instance. This may sound simplisitic to you, but in my experience, this is the way to take these things apart. Then we can possibly look at other the subjects in the same manner.

Bear in mind though that, as you have previously been quite rude, I am not as inclined to make the same effort as if you had been polite.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby American Dream » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:41 pm

jakell, I think your evasion and other such machinations speak for themselves. So I see no need to play games with you.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby jakell » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:52 pm

American Dream » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:41 pm wrote:jakell, I think your evasion and other such machinations speak for themselves. So I see no need to play games with you.


So. I take it that you don't want to know my views on white supremacism then?

This is a shame, because I have crystallised a few viewpoints in this area that are relevent to the present state of the far right in Britain and Europe. ie, not based upon second or third hand articles full of stale data.

I do insist on people asking properly worded questions though, I usually decline to answer careless ones.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby American Dream » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:05 pm

http://threewayfight.blogspot.com/2013/ ... -part.html

Sunday, December 15, 2013

Interface articles on the far right: Part one -- Autonomous Nationalists

The November 2013 issue of Interface includes two interesting articles about the far right. Interface is an interesting project -- an international, multilingual journal that brings together activists and academics to share knowledge "for and about social movements." The journal's politics are broadly leftist. It's freely available online and has been publishing for about five years.

In a statement titled "Who We Want to Reach," the Interface editors say that they don't want to produce either "pure" theory or simply descriptive accounts. Rather, they aim to contribute to "praxis-centered theorizing" on social movement activity. If the two articles that caught my attention are representative, then the results are promising but uneven. One of the articles does a much better job than the other at providing theoretical analysis that's useful for guiding political work.

The two articles are:

"The 'Autonomous Nationalists': new developments and contradictions in the German neo-Nazi movement" by Raphael Schlembach,
and
"The trouble with eco-politics of localism: too close to the far right? Debates on ecology and globalization," by Mi Park.


Both pieces are pretty academic in format and language, but both offer useful information and address issues that have been ignored by many leftists. This blog post will focus on the article about Autonomous Nationalists. I'll address the second article in a follow-up post.

Schlembach's article discusses an important sub-current within the German far right that has emerged over the past decade. Autonomous Nationalists are neo-nazi street fighters who have adopted many of the styles and symbols of anarchists and other leftists. They've replaced skinhead-style bomber jackets and combat boots with black hoodies and baseball caps, and favor hip hop graffiti art over German Fraktur. They also emphasize autonomy, decentralism, and DIY culture rather than discipline and honor, are skeptical of personality cults, and promote a "spontaneous aggressiveness" at demonstrations (303) that can put them at odds not only with anti-fascists and the police but even with more established fascist organizations. Autonomous Nationalists have an uneasy relationship with the National Democrat Party (NPD) and other established fascist parties. And, Schlembach reports, while far right violence in Germany has primarily targeted immigrants and asylum seekers, Autonomous Nationalist violence more often targets leftists.

Many far rightists denounce corporate globalization and even capitalism, but some Autonomous Nationalists "call for boycotts of well known neo-Nazi clothing brands that produce clothing abroad [and] attack them for selling out and turning into 'capitalist companies'" (303). And while international networking among fascists is common, "the Autonomous Nationalists make special efforts to integrate foreign activists into their activities in Germany. This, together with the use of new social media and the English language, results in a fast dissemination of ideas and repertoires to other European countries" (312).

The Autonomous Nationalists aren't very numerous (in 2009, the German government estimated they formed about 10 percent of the neo-nazi movement, with 400-500 activists) but they are important because they show vividly that it's dangerous to equate progressive politics with any specific style or even with more substantive values such as autonomy or internationalism. Autonomous Nationalists are the latest version, but fascists have been appropriating leftist politics in distorted form since the time of Mussolini. It's a basic part of what they do.

Schlembach's article is quite useful for its reportage about the Autonomous Nationalists. Ironically, given the article's academic tone, its analysis is much weaker. Despite a few references to other fascists, Schlembach does little to place the Autonomous Nationalists in a larger historical or political context. He makes no effort to relate Autonomous Nationalism to parallel developments such as National Anarchism, which also borrows heavily from current leftist movements. And while the article describes Autonomous Nationalists' racial politics as "ethno-pluralist," there's no mention of the European New Right, which is where the term ethno-pluralism comes from.

To Schlembach, "the principles of networked, decentralized and individualistic organization stand in complete opposition to the stated aim of a national organic order" and thus Autonomous Nationalists' means and ends are in "obvious conflict" (314). That's true if we assume that the fascist ideal is a centralized, totalitarian state a la Hitler's Germany -- in other words, if we overlook the European New Right, leaderless resistance, white separatism, National Anarchism, and many other developments in fascist politics over the past thirty years.

I'm glad that Interface published this article and is addressing current-day rightist tendencies such as Autonomous Nationalism. But as an example of practice-centered theorizing, Schlembach's article falls short. To explore these developments usefully requires a broader and deeper view of far right movements and a more inclusive and dynamic conception of fascism.

Posted by Matthew N Lyons
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby Zombie Glenn Beck » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:07 pm

AD, you write a lot about Western antisemitism, but what about Japanese antisemitism? As you can clearly see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9jajP3bi58 the Japanese anti-semite movement has the support of several militant groups around the world and is even backed by high ranking members of the power elite. Something to keep your eye on in the future.
barracuda wrote:The path from RI moderator to True Blood fangirl to Jehovah's Witness seems pretty straightforward to me. Perhaps even inevitable.
User avatar
Zombie Glenn Beck
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:55 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby American Dream » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:23 pm

Personally, I wouldn't link to highly racist material unless there was some type of cogent critique attached- not sure why you did...
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby Zombie Glenn Beck » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:39 pm

Does an elderly Japanese man explaining that Jews are space tarantulas really need a critique?
barracuda wrote:The path from RI moderator to True Blood fangirl to Jehovah's Witness seems pretty straightforward to me. Perhaps even inevitable.
User avatar
Zombie Glenn Beck
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:55 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby American Dream » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:42 pm

Zombie Glenn Beck » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:39 pm wrote:Does an elderly Japanese man explaining that Jews are space tarantulas really need a critique?


Point well taken- and I hope everyone here can agree on that...
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby Sounder » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:45 pm

I would say everybody sets their own boundaries, and this is the mark of the individual. Although 'opening up' is nearly always a matter of dissolving certain boundaries, I think they are an expression of the self that shouldn't be too hastily discarded.


I totally agree. It seems even that during many peoples more youthful years, a desire to rework ones boundaries leaves a good number of folk adrift and/or over committed to 'novel' ideation.

The opening up process seems inherent to our being. We want to know more, but on what terms or by what context are we getting out information?

It's a messy business.
Sounder
 
Posts: 4054
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby American Dream » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:04 am

http://www.whomakesthenazis.com/2010/11 ... nazis.html

Troy Southgate, the New Right and Old Nazis

ImageIn an attempt to provide Fascism with some Green credentials and a gloss of anti-authoritarianism and even Socialism, 'National Anarchist' Troy Southgate (who also runs the neo-Classical / post-Industrial group H.E.R.R, and is a member of the groups Seelenlicht and Horologium*) has created some of the most bizarre ideological hybrids conceivable, grafting bits of Anarchist and Socialist phraseology onto his hard core Racist and ultra-reactionary politics to try to recruit from the Anarchist and Green milieus. He has denied ever being a Fascist ("I am not and have never been a Fascist of any description" - WMTN? Comment), and in an essay, 'Revolution vs. Reaction', he says that "it is quite certain that we have nothing in common with the intellectually bankrupt legions of the modern Left, but then neither do we owe any allegiance to those on the Right. Many so-called Nationalists are content to describe themselves as being 'right of centre', or even on the 'Far Right', but it must be stated quite categorically that true Nationalism has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Right-wing politics." [Southgate, Tradition and Revolution, p68].

If you took Southgate seriously as an ideologist you might therefore be a little surprised to learn that - as someone who "has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Right Wing politics" - he is somehow also a founder and the Chairman of the 'New Right' (NR) group, the aim of which is to "unite the disparate strands of the British Right and get everybody pulling in the same direction" [Dan Ghetu, 'Interview', Synthesis], and which, in a clod-hopping, British Empricist manner, is trying to imitate the continental Nouvelle Droite and become a focus of far-Right ideological innovation. You might be even more surprised to hear that, despite his claims to be against Fascism (which is 'reactionary'), this group collects together not only extreme anti-Semites and other racists, but also, er, Fascists in a discussion group aimed at forging a new image for the, er, Right. The following is an extract from an article about the NR taken from the latest edition of the UK anti-Fascist magazine Searchlight ('New Right, Old Nazis'). The article begins by discussing last month's NR meeting at which Martin Webster - the Chairman of the National Front (NF) during its 70's heyday, who boasted that his party were "forming a well-oiled Nazi machine in Britain" - gave a speech full of traditional Nazi anti-Semitic rhetoric.

"The New Right group was formed by Troy Southgate, a man whose life has been an odyssey across the far right scene since his imprisonment as an NF street thug in the 1970s. He has dabbled in far-right music, National Bolshevism and similar movements that emerged in the former communist states during the 1990s, various Green Anarchist outfits and a blend of far-right paganism and satanism.

He was a founder member of the International Third Position (ITP) together with Nick Griffin, now leader of the BNP, and other NF 'Political Soldiers' in 1989. Like Southgate and his followers today, it was heavily influenced by the Italian mystic and National Socialist Julius Evola, a man so extreme that the Italian fascist dictator Benito Mussolini had him locked up twice. Evola's wartime exile was lived out in the company of senior SS men and after the war he mentored Roberto Fiore, who in turn acted as political mentor to Nick Griffin while on the run in the UK from a terrorist conviction in Italy. Griffin still works closely with him in Europe.

Southgate left the ITP in September 1992 and from then on changed political affiliation as often as his underwear. In the middle of this decade he and a small group of others, including the quasi-intellectual Jonathan Bowden, created the New Right group with the aim of inspiring old thinking in a refreshed way. Its meetings... gave London's far right the chance to hear pagans, Muslim converts and leading figures in Europe's far right and beyond.

Despite being a BNP officer until the end of last year, Bowden has regularly chaired and addressed New Right meetings without any objection from Griffin. Audiences... comprise a mixture of boot boys, pagans, well-to-do Jew baiters and several BNP councillors.

The long list of speakers reads like a who's who of far-right extremists. They have included Alexander Dugin... Dr Tomislav Sunić... the Holocaust denier 'Lady' Michèle Renouf... Michael Woodbridge... and... Norman Lowell.
...
It is not only old nazis who attend new Right meetings. Matt Tait, the BNP's Bletchley organiser, acts as the New Right student organiser...
...
While Southgate remains on the fringe of the far-right music scene in Britain, he has a big fan club among nazis, pagans and other oddballs in eastern Europe"

[Searchlight, December 2010, pp14-15]

So there you have it, Southgate - who has "never been a Fascist of any description", for whom "Fascism itself was and remains a bastardised form of Capitalism" [Southgate, Tradition and Revolution, p103], and whose beliefs have "absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Right-wing politics" - is a founder of the 'New Right' and organises meetings at which the speakers are almost exclusively Fascists, old and new, like Webster, Bowden, et al. Frankly, when he says that he's not of the Right and not a Fascist Southgate is either the most confused political ideologue in recorded history... or a liar trying desperately to infiltrate the Anarchist and Green movements to turn them toward Fascism. What do you reckon?


* According to Wikipedia,"He has also worked with Sweden's Survival Unit, Holland's Erich Zahn, the Canadian project, Funerary Call, the Italian projects Ouroboros, Bonebound, Silent Cathedral and Sala Della Colonne, the Polish projects Elvatorium, Ollin and Desert Divinity, and the German bands, Sagittarius, Von Thronstahl & The Days of the Trumpet Call.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby jakell » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:58 am

Here's a snippet of relevent information for you AD, the British anarchists I have talked to don't really reckon Southgate, and tend to have a healthy cynicism of the rest of the far right too, of course, this is a characteristic of anarchists in general.
I can't speak for other parts of the world and it would be a mistake to assume that the far right form a monolithic entity around the world... wouldn't it?

You are barking up the wrong tree here, which you would realise if you actually got to grips with the subject on the ground. In these days of the internet there is really no excuse for relying on reams of stale second hand information, go to source.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby American Dream » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:01 am

So, jakell while you've never said said what exact faction of the Far Right you might align yourself with, you openly support "National Anarchists" here and your repeated message is "Go to them"- i.e. go to their websites, meet up with them etc.. And yet you completely avoid the unpleasant truth about them that even among the most supposedly "left-friendly" such as Keith Preston these are authoritarian, far right, crypto-racists that you are promoting here. You don't even mention the ordinary boneheads who have done a quick makeover to claim now, "Hey- I'm an Anarchist, a National Anarchist"...

You are walking like a duck, and talking like a duck.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Judeophobia & The Revolutionary Right

Postby jakell » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:22 am

American Dream » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:01 pm wrote:So, jakell while you've never said said what exact faction of the Far Right you might align yourself with, you openly support "National Anarchists" here and your repeated message is "Go to them"- i.e. go to their websites, meet up with them etc.. And yet you completely avoid the unpleasant truth about them that even among the most supposedly "left-friendly" such as Keith Preston these are authoritarian, far right, crypto-racists that you are promoting here. You don't even mention the ordinary boneheads who have done a quick makeover to claim now, "Hey- I'm an Anarchist, a National Anarchist"...

You are walking like a duck, and talking like a duck.


I don't align myself with any faction of the far right, neither do I particularly support National Anarchism as I said earlier, it's not really my cup of tea.
Neither have I 'promoted' anything here. You seem to be very quick to point the finger and do lazy labelling based on little information, and regarding information, you also seem reluctant to ask the necessary basic questions to come to any reasonable conclusions.

I have not exhorted you to go to 'their' websites, because any website with a particularly narrow flavour will give a distorted picture, I have stated that more general political websites are the most fruitful here (anarchists are to be found in all walks). Personally, if relevent and current information is desired, I would recommend to go to source, if a source is available.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to FIRE PIT

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests