Re: Chekhov!

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Re: Chekhov!

Postby brekin » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:59 pm

[[[MOD NOTE: Stupid barfights that disrupt useful threads will be at least temporarily moved here. Here is the first, 16 June 2020]]]

JackRiddler » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:36 am wrote:Yes of course, why didn't I see it sooner? The crude anti-humanism, the brick-in-the face misanthropy, the contempt for empathy and the individual, the lack of subtlety, the ambiguous way you take a shit on stage, the crickets chirping in seats filled neither with communists nor anti-communists. This is the second coming of Chekhov!
PS - It means you're boring.


My, my so catty and strangely thin skinned, judgemental and reactionary. Very ad hominemy to. Aren't you a mod? Or maybe I'm mistaken, you are like a British mod instead? Since you can't define my position you have to dehumanize me to fit your approved talking points? Sad. (And let's not even get into empathy and respect for individuals, old timers on RI have not forgotten how you asked another member to go kill themselves.) And as far as boring? Jack you think your daily foil ball making of your news feed is what, thrilling, cutting edge? You are just another cyber curmudgeon intoning on events you have no direct insight or influence over. Take away your tablet for 3 days and you would have nothing to say.

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Flamewar spillover and resolution thread

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:35 pm

NOTE: Sorry, when I moved brekin's post here the software erased the OP, which explained the purpose of this thread, and changed the thread title. I didn't know that would happen. Apparently it was because brekin's timestamp was older.

In any case...

brekin » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:59 am wrote:Aren't you a mod?


RI mods have never been muzzled from speaking their opinions. It's a perk of having to take all this shit for no reward. You seem to think this is a job? Are you paying me? (As a long-time member, you obviously know all this.)

Since you can't define my position you have to dehumanize me to fit your approved talking points?


False. Also, you've reversed the order, sir.

Your position is easily "defined." You write clearly and we all can read. As I wrote, your recent texts on the "Dem VP / 2020 Riots" thread are anti-humanist, unsubtle, hateful of the individual and youth, a revival of Le Bon's old screeds about stupid crowds, etc., etc. They're much nastier than the nastiness you project on me for saying so.

Those are not exaggerations or insults, they describe the positions you express, at least in my view. I suppose whether you think my comments count as "ad-hominem" depends on the extent to which you identify yourself with the content of your published words.

However, someone I respect suggested something like that: that it was "parody." So I was nice enough to ask. My mistake. I got a speech about how your art is just like Chekhov's. But since it speaks for itself, I can stick with my verdict.

Sad. (And let's not even get into empathy and respect for individuals, old timers on RI have not forgotten how you asked another member to go kill themselves.)


slimmouse, yes. It's a common if mean turn of phrase, and I doubt of any concern to that particular troll, who was banned long before my era as mod.

A different member thereupon took up the misinterpretation that she had been meant, although this was never the case. Something like ten years later, you, who had nothing to do with it, are out to revive it.

Apparently you "free speech advocates" are going to want my words punished for a term longer than that meted out on average for actual murder, at least in most places outside the U.S.

But I'll take it as a badge of honor. Invoking this canard is a favored move among those who have lost an argument against me, a kind of inadvertant white flag. Thank you.

(As for the rest, etc. etc., oh Glorious New Chekhov, how you've exposed and wounded me, atouchatouch I fear I breathe my last, etc. etc.)

I love it when people who obviously spend days preparing their posts think to insult others by suggesting that they spend too much time on the Internet. Which we all, clearly, do.

Your overblown misanthropic texts have not been subject to censorship, merely criticism. If you post, people can express their opinion on it. If you don't like that opinion, you can ignore it, or defend what you wrote. Claiming falsely that refutations of what you wrote are ad-hominem doesn't mean you get to do actual ad-hominem in return.

So. Flame war stops now. Surely you have better things to do? We don't want to delay your search for still images from Gremlins (the first, not the sequel) that you can caption with misinterpreted bits of Nietzsche.
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Re: Chekhov!

Postby brekin » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:52 pm

This has to be one of the pettiest threads ever. So sad.
What is that quote about academic squabbles? They are so intense because the stakes are so low.
It doesn't even have any context to original content, just where JR was butt hurt.
Jack consider your behavior here, with the limited authority you have, and think of that when you criticize the power structure.
Pray you never join it and have to confront the irl ramifications.
Funny never dig in or quote the original content but just throw up labels (weirdly betraying your own state of mind?)
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Re: Re: Chekhov!

Postby norton ash » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:54 pm

Aw, and here I thought this thread was about Chekhov.
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Re: Re: Chekhov!

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:02 pm

norton ash » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:54 pm wrote:Aw, and here I thought this thread was about Chekhov.


Sad, no? brekin's not Chekhov, but perhaps you can imagine him as a character.

brekin, dude, inventor of imaginary transgressions:

I'm just saving the other thread, where so many including you have invested a lot of work, from the stupid useless low-stakes academic fight (or rather, the pointless exchange of insults) that you are intent on starting with me, for my crime of describing what you actually wrote in your posts.

And I'm even giving you a place where you can pursue that, even though it's a dubious use of my time. (That's why we're going to wrap this crap up shortly or else this baby's going to be locked and fire-pitted within a few hours.)

It's great, people can totally ignore this bullshit-fest, or they can revel in it, if they're into the fine old art of Internet insults.

There's a link to the other thread right in the OP. Go ahead and add links to all of your wonderful collages from that here, as evidence in your lawsuit. Those have been left there, in context, as content. You put a lot of work into those, right? They deserve better than your intent to turn that thread into a slimepit of defamations, just because your work has been criticized. I'm sure you're less petty than that.

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We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
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The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Re: Chekhov!

Postby Cordelia » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:28 pm

norton ash » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:54 pm wrote:Aw, and here I thought this thread was about Chekhov.


Me too!

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Re: Chekhov!

Postby brekin » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:35 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
norton ash » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:54 pm wrote:Aw, and here I thought this thread was about Chekhov.

Sad, no?
brekin, dude, inventor of imaginary transgressions:
I'm just saving the other thread, where so many including you have invested a lot of work, from the stupid useless low-stakes academic fight you are intent on starting with me. And I'm even giving you a place where you can pursue that, even though it's a dubious use of my time. (That's why this baby's going to be locked and fire-pitted within a few hours.)
It's great, people can totally ignore this bullshit-fest, or they can revel in it, if they're into the fine old art of Internet insults.
There's a link to the other thread right in the OP. Go ahead and add links to all of your wonderful collages from that here, as evidence. Those have been left there, in context, as content. You put a lot of work into those, right? They deserve better than your intent to turn that thread into a slimepit of defamations, just because your work has been criticized.
.


Jack you are embarrassing yourself. I don't comment on your posts (better left unsaid why) you do on mine. And you yourself admit you don't understand them, need clarification, can't even grok the genre of my posts. And you are not criticizing the posts, you are defaming me, as you clutch your pearls, accusing me of every ism and andry you seem to weirdly have at the ready. Sorry I upended your tidy conceptual world with a few collages.

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Re: Chekhov!

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:51 pm

brekin » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:35 pm wrote:And you yourself admit you don't understand them, need clarification, can't even grok the genre of my posts.


Untrue. Explained above. Repetition is tedious, but here's a compact version: At the prompting of others, I gave you the courtesy of bothering to ask whether the face-value rhetoric was meant to conceal some opposite meaning. Shouldn't have, clearly.

I don't comment on your posts (better left unsaid why) you do on mine.


This is a discussion board. Try a blog. You can turn off comments.

accusing me of every ism and andry


Oh come now. It's a pretty specific list.
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Re: Chekhov!

Postby cptmarginal » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:47 pm

Whatever was intended, the Tropic Thunder one just made me want to quit the thread entirely rather than bother being triggered or even being associated with something that tone-deaf and bizarre. One way or another, I'll be over here in anguish poring over hundreds of violent videos and contemplating America.

I'm not saying I am in favor of active moderation and splitting off threads; I'm merely pointing out that starting from the Jonestown thing you have been making some quite provocative posts and should not be surprised at all if people don't respond favorably. In other words: do keep posting more stuff, but maybe start a new thread? We all have the ability to start one whenever we feel like it.

Also worth mentioning that I like brekin and have never had any reason to not welcome his contribution.
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Re: Chekhov!

Postby brekin » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:50 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
brekin » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:35 pm wrote:And you yourself admit you don't understand them, need clarification, can't even grok the genre of my posts.

Untrue. Explained above. Repetition is tedious, but here's a compact version: At the prompting of others, I gave you the courtesy of bothering to ask whether the face-value rhetoric was meant to conceal some opposite meaning. Shouldn't have, clearly.
I don't comment on your posts (better left unsaid why) you do on mine.

This is a discussion board. Try a blog. You can turn off comments.
accusing me of every ism and andry

Oh come now. It's a pretty specific list.


Courtesy? You don't know what the word means. Jack don't pretend "you can't be bothered with the facts and details" when you are creating whole separate threads divorcing your vague political correct thought crime accusations from the content. But better then to concentrate on the task at hand? Your weird show trial without evidence?
Obviously you don't want to true up your accusations with the content - because you would incriminate yourself bigly in showing how much your are over reaching and finding sin and sinners with what you are simply not getting. You very personal but public moral panic is a little strange.
You obviously tend toward a totalistic world view where tongue in cheek, wryness, sublimity, parody, exaggeration, etc. is lost on your very, very linear literal dialectic materialistic mind. Didn't anyone every give little Jack a Mad Magazine? Strange that in your quest for freedom, empathy for others, justice, etc. you have to condemn artistic expression. To paraphrase Emma Goldman, "If I can't collage in your revolution then I don't want any part of it."

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Re: Chekhov!

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:59 pm

brekin » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:50 pm wrote:tongue in cheek, wryness, sublimity, parody, exaggeration, etc. is lost on your very, very linear literal dialectic materialistic mind.


There, there, Anton Pavlovich, was it so hard for you to make this claim before, so as to steer clear of misunderstandings?

Didn't anyone every give little Jack a Mad Magazine?


Nope. Bought them myself, for many years. One unfortunate effect is that I expect humor to be funny, or at least clever. Which is very unfair, I see now. Sorry.

Also, if any magazine4kids ever had a bias toward PUNCHING UP, you've named it. Apparently that lesson went lost on you.

Strange that in your quest for freedom, empathy for others, justice, etc. you have to condemn artistic expression. To paraphrase Emma Goldman, "If I can't collage in your revolution then I don't want any part of it."


What is it if I can't critique your collages without having you go nuts, falsely accuse me of "condemning artistic expression" tout court, and cry censorship, fanaticism, etc., none of which actually happened?

But thanks for setting me straight, old bean.

Isn't a good thing that this isn't gumming up the other thread?

Emma Goldman's reincarnation was my first love, by the way. We still write.

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We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
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Re: Chekhov!

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:15 pm

cptmarginal » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:47 pm wrote:Whatever was intended, the Tropic Thunder one just made me want to quit the thread entirely rather than bother being triggered or even being associated with something that tone-deaf and bizarre. One way or another, I'll be over here in anguish poring over hundreds of violent videos and contemplating America.

I'm not saying I am in favor of active moderation and splitting off threads; I'm merely pointing out that starting from the Jonestown thing you have been making some quite provocative posts and should not be surprised at all if people don't respond favorably. In other words: do keep posting more stuff, but maybe start a new thread? We all have the ability to start one whenever we feel like it.

Also worth mentioning that I like brekin and have never had any reason to not welcome his contribution.


How reasonable.

active moderation and splitting off threads


Depends on several factors. In this case, I've merely split the predictable flamewar from the active thread. And note that brekin's collages are still where they were.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Chekhov!

Postby brekin » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:36 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
cptmarginal » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:47 pm wrote:Whatever was intended, the Tropic Thunder one just made me want to quit the thread entirely rather than bother being triggered or even being associated with something that tone-deaf and bizarre. One way or another, I'll be over here in anguish poring over hundreds of violent videos and contemplating America.
I'm not saying I am in favor of active moderation and splitting off threads; I'm merely pointing out that starting from the Jonestown thing you have been making some quite provocative posts and should not be surprised at all if people don't respond favorably. In other words: do keep posting more stuff, but maybe start a new thread? We all have the ability to start one whenever we feel like it.
Also worth mentioning that I like brekin and have never had any reason to not welcome his contribution.

How reasonable.
active moderation and splitting off threads

Depends on several factors. In this case, I've merely split the predictable flamewar from the active thread. And note that brekin's collages are still where they were.


JackRiddler wrote:
brekin » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:50 pm wrote:tongue in cheek, wryness, sublimity, parody, exaggeration, etc. is lost on your very, very linear literal dialectic materialistic mind.

There, there, Anton Pavlovich, was it so hard for you to make this claim before, so as to steer clear of misunderstandings?
Didn't anyone every give little Jack a Mad Magazine?

Nope. Bought them myself, for many years. One unfortunate effect is that I expect humor to be funny, or at least clever. Which is very unfair, I see now. Sorry.
Also, if any magazine4kids ever had a bias toward PUNCHING UP, you've named it. Apparently that lesson went lost on you.
Strange that in your quest for freedom, empathy for others, justice, etc. you have to condemn artistic expression. To paraphrase Emma Goldman, "If I can't collage in your revolution then I don't want any part of it."

What is it if I can't critique your collages without having you go nuts, falsely accuse me of "condemning artistic expression" tout court, and cry censorship, fanaticism, etc., none of which actually happened?
But thanks for setting me straight, old bean.
Isn't a good thing that this isn't gumming up the other thread?
Emma Goldman's reincarnation was my first love, by the way. We still write.
.


The Grand Inquisitor gets a semi confession and is now happy.
What has happened to this place? Strange do we have to label our posts not for content, but with the intended way they should be interpreted? Less we run the risk of being accused of "crude anti-humanism, the brick-in-the face misanthropy, the contempt for empathy and the individual, the lack of subtlety, the ambiguous way you take a shit on stage, the crickets chirping in seats filled neither with communists nor anti-communists"
Honestly, if my posts are so extreme, in poor taste, so avant-garde, so ambiguously fraught with analysis paralysis they require statements of intent, I'm sorry but I'm thinking that reflects more on others than me.
Have you perused just some of the posts on RI, let alone their titles over years? My mashups are the mild sauce. I think perhaps this is honestly more of a cognitive style. If many of the tea society had to visualize their posts, I think they'd be horrified at the images they are creating in other peoples minds.

WARNING: the below image is a pictorial exaggeration of a random RI thread visual representation. It is intended to be viewed by adults for entertainment purposes only and is not to be taken seriously or attempted in anyway in real life. It is no way a call to violence or implying people should be pushed through funnels.


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If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
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Re: the Resolution Thread

Postby Sounder » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:23 am

I love and enjoy much content that rational Jack produces, and there is no bother to me if I disagree with certain assumptions or conclusions. On the other hand, rancid Jack comes across as some petulant adolescent that doesn't like how his friends are playing with his toys. Some call it Whitemans Disease,(not Tyson though, as he tends to not violate decorum.) (Unfortunately we all got herd immunity so the disease is buried deep.) Refer to Tyson Yunkaporta's book, Sand Talk, that I mentioned on the What are you Reading thread. He and indigenous thinking provide modes for interacting, and thereby creating, that depend on respect to insure and advance the quality of connections and relations. Tyson says; spirit, head, heart, hand. Mumma Doris says; respect, connect, reflect, and direct. Then she adds and illustrates how the western mind treats things backwards.

I have been treated poorly at RI for many years for saying essentially the same thing. If people are serious about advancing the cause, greater well being for all, they will learn more about the value of respect.



brekin wrote....
It doesn't even have any context to original content, just where JR was butt hurt.
Jack consider your behavior here, with the limited authority you have, and think of that when you criticize the power structure.
Pray you never join it and have to confront the irl ramifications.
Funny never dig in or quote the original content but just throw up labels (weirdly betraying your own state of mind?)
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Your Beast of Burden

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:49 am

My transgression, according to brekin, and the reason for the flamewar that was exported to this thread, was that I commented negatively on a set of works he posted in the 2020 "Dem VP"/"Riots" thread.

According to brekin, my comments on his works constitute censorship, bullying, mischaracterization, and an attack on "artistic freedom." Further, I am also charged with failing to sufficiently cite and quote from these works, which brekin has maintained are Chekhovian in their complexity and ambiguity. (To lay this charge to rest, I provide the links to the brekinian works in question, below. Confession: I do not appreciate being the one who does this work for you.) Finally, according to sounder, my comments are (further) evidence of my moral depravity, insufficient humanity and enlightenment, general meanness, etc. etc.

My comments were that these works are anti-humanist in their ideology, unsubtle, unfunny, brick-in-the-face misanthropic, hateful of crowds and young people, contemptuous of individual agency and expression, entirely lacking for empirical basis, propagating radically false claims about the protests and their motivations, and thus extremely defamatory toward their targeted subjects, who actually exist and have voices that brekin is not interested in representing. In short, nasty, hateful mythmaking about people brekin doesn't care to know or listen to. These comments may sound harsh, but they are genuinely my view, that others may judge as accurate or otherwise.

As, of course, the works are still exactly where brekin posted them, let readers who may have any interest in these matters judge for themselves:

Jonestown
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42023&start=240#p688140

Tropical Heat
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42023&start=270#p688255

Rebel Alliance
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42023&start=285#p688310

Manson
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42023&start=300#p688361

Legend
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42023&start=300#p688451
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