Two threads fire-pitted plus..

[chiggerbit]

I see that two threads were fire-pitted this morning, and at least one seems to have disappeared. I was kind of surprised that the badger one was fire-pitted.

[chiggerbit]

Oops, nevermind, I see that THREE threads were fire-pitted.

[chiggerbit]

BTW, I noticed that the viewing numbers seemed to slump a bit after Mel and dbd were banned, but now they seem (in my unscientific observations) to have even surpassed what the averages were before the two bannings.

[Jeff]

The badger move was a mistake; I put it back. (Though it's tempting to enigmatically say "this is a no-badger board"!)

BTW, any feedback from the mods on the latest flap would be appreciated. Do you think I've made my position clear enough, and do you think it's reasonable?

[sunny]

Jeff, I think you know my views on Israel quite well. I have been accused on the board of being an anti-semite, but nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, my husband is Jewish (the grandson of a Rabbi, in fact, tho my husband was raised atheist by his own father. Long story) which of course makes my two children half Jewish. I have not mentioned this on the board because it would make it sound as though I am trying to justify my views, and I don't think they need justifying.

I think it is very prudent to warn of fascists infiltration into progressive thinking. It is a serious and real danger. It is the main reason I stopped reading Xymphora-I thought s/he was veering sharply into Protocols territory. However, you seem to imply that the use of the word Zionist should be off limits. I realize many white supremacists use this term, but it IS a legitimate term used to describe an ideology, which Zionists themselves do in fact use to describe themselves. To place the term off limits is equivalent to saying we should never describe fascists as fascists, because anti-fascists use it derogatorily, and even while fascists are proud of the term. Does that make sense?

You may have noticed that I no longer participate in I/P threads. This is not because I have chickened out of the discussion, rather, I have said all I mean to say here and to say it all again would only invite the same old tired responses, most notably from DE. I notice HE never misses an opportunity to jump immediately into such threads, but that is neither here nor there. My point is, these discussions have become pointless here. They go nowhere. No one here can or will be convinced either way. If I could find another good, progressive forum in which to write about the subject from a peace and justice angle without it devolving into accusations of anti-semitism, I would be very happy, but I won't hold my breath.

[chiggerbit]

My point is, these discussions have become pointless here. They go nowhere. No one here can or will be convinced either way.

I'm not so sure I agree, sunny. It seems to me like the other sites are extremely lop-sided one way or the other, but there isn't much balanced discussion. As far as DE goes, he puts a lot of time and effort, with his superb debate and research skills, into re-butting some of the arguments from people who do seem out-and-out anti-Semitic, and so he provides "balance". And yet, the problem is that a balance of extremes leaves the argument for the middle ground totally vacant. As good as DE's skills are, I find myself often in disagreement with him on this subject, but what he does is make me examine more closely why I feel or believe what I do. I rarely change my mind, but I have a better understanding of what I believe. Does that make sense? And I think these discussions can be good for those who haven't locked in on a position yet. There are many facets to these issues, sunny, and I'm sure that your insights would be invaluable. I wish you would jump back in again.

[Jeff]

However, you seem to imply that the use of the word Zionist should be off limits. I realize many white supremacists use this term, but it IS a legitimate term used to describe an ideology, which Zionists themselves do in fact use to describe themselves.

No, I didn't mean to imply that. It's just one word among many that get adopted and turned into "safe words" for white supremacists and the like to disseminate their stuff, and then say "oh, but we didn't say Jew." We can't, and I wouldn't want to, ban any of those words. But sometimes they are encoded, and loaded with other meaning. Sometimes it might take looking at the source, if someone's cut and pasted, to recognize that.

Geesh, I hate this stuff. It's so easy to be misunderstood, and passions run so close to the surface. I wish it would go away. But not much chance of that!

[chiggerbit]

Now, see, these two comments by you, sunny, and you Jeff ,would have made a fantastic addition to those threads, so logical and reasonable. ~sigh~