Activism.....

[Burnt Hill]

Yes I can tell you are concerned about the poor and downtrodden misplacing the last of their hard earned funds. And critically challenged? have you read your own posts? including your latest? or do you dare? And of course you havent addressed my legitimate questions to you either. Lets see, I have just intuited that you are a child and have misrepresented all of your so called life experiences here, and dont like being called out on it, so whos spreading the b.s.?

[pitcairn]

Burnt Hill:
What is sad is your blatantly transparent attempt at obfustication.

The Orgonite folks are making money of their mudballs, and by linking to their various websites here they are trying to drive up sales there.

I'm willing to bet Jeff moved these threads here because of what the Orgonite folks are doing to the credibility of this website, and not so much the comments of their debunkers.

Shame works well to control children, but adults with a modicum of learning and experience can see through bogus take downs...

Too Stoned you are mistaken in ... oh let me count the ways ...

Maryk and her brother are estranged, as she has explained here in some detail: she would in no way benefit from any of his business activities

Dragon and Maryk offer agnihotra ash for free, they only ask the recipient to cover the cost of postage and handling; their offer of ash impregnated mudballs for 20$ I would assume covers postage, handling, and the time/effort it takes to make the mudballs, thus saving the recipient the time and effort of making his/her own; to my knowledge they have never "hawked any wares" here and if you can find an instance of their so doing, please correct me; anyone who takes the time to read up on agnihotra will find that there is a great deal of dedication, commitment, and effort involved in performing the sunrise and sunset ceremonies to properly produce the ash - I find it very commendable that Maryk and Dragon are so willing to make it and send it off to others, on request, for nothing more than s/h.

Pitcairn: I've spent a considerable amount of time around "indian doctors" and none of them offer to heal people to prove their powers.

Rather their healing "powers" was widely aknowledge and people asked them for "healings" And if they were succesful the doctors' never claimed they did the work; it was the animals, or the creator, or the ancestors, or etc. but never them.

you know Too Stoned you've alluded to this before: your familiarity with native medicine and practices and culture

and I will not dispute you, nor accuse you of inflating any claims you may have to a superior understanding and "authenticity"

but I would suggest you step carefully when approaching that sometimes fine line between deep appreciation for, and admiration of, a tradition, and "borrowing" from or appropriating its authority

you have made statements in regard to these matters which, while they may be true in your experience, are not, in fact, universally true amongst all native cultures and practices - as an example, you made the quite surprising claim that no natives use or approve the term "medicine man," and that anyone who did so was suspect and likely a con

Too Stoned, that is simply not true at all; and if you press the issue I will present evidence from native sources to the contrary of your claims

and while it is true that all genuine traditional healers ask no money, and give all credit to powers greater than themselves, you posit, on no apparent basis, that Maryk and Dragon do not share these beliefs/attitudes/practices

how do you know that they don't? do you know them personally" have you had a healing from either of them? has anyone you know?

they saw a need, they made an offer

perhaps in their enthusiasm, and strong belief in the efficacy of their method, they were over zealous or indelicate, but that hardly makes them con men or deliberate cheats

there has been so much anger and opprobrium thrown at Maryk and Dragon, and the reasons given don't hold water

all the complaints about credibility of the site: now, but really, think of all the things discussed here!

the worries and disapproval and exaggerated warnings over "promotion of trespassing" and all that: people on this site also openly acknowledge and sincerely commend their experiences with illegal drugs - well, should we all worry about keyword hijacking by Homeland Security/DEA?

no, there is something else that gets under the skin of all the "rude debunkers" and I really don't know what it is; but what I do know is, all of you who find the topic distasteful could just skip it, and leave those who want to discuss these matters in peace, but you won't

why?

and Burnt Hill is right that even now, relegated to a little "ghetto" all their own, these topics draw endless harassment

it really is unfortunate and does put a damper on the introduction of many new, or generally unfamiliar, and potentially useful and intriguing subjects

one less place to come and learn something new - or old, but new to a reader here

I trust there is nothing obfuscatory in this post, despite the haste in which I wrote it

[TooStoned]

you have made statements in regard to these matters which, while they may be true in your experience, are not, in fact, universally true amongst all native cultures and practices - as an example, you made the quite surprising claim that no natives use or approve the term "medicine man," and that anyone who did so was suspect and likely a con

That's my experience that's how I stated it.

Not as objective fact. Unlike some of the claims of taking out underground UFO bases.

I don't merely borrow from traditions, I carry songs and teachings that I earned (fasting, sweats, pipe ceremonies, hard work for elders) so thanks for your warning of stepping lightly, but I've already walked many miles in those moccasins

Credibility? Well the craziest stories gain validity when they are described as anecdotes or personal experiences and people don't try to use scientific terms the don't understand and then object when people call them on it.

no, there is something else that gets under the skin of all the "rude debunkers" and I really don't know what it is; but what I do know is, all of you who find the topic distasteful could just skip it, and leave those who want to discuss these matters in peace, but you won't

Nobody has any problem with the Orgonite crowd telling their tales, but everyone should have problems when they "cross reality tunnels" as PP put it.

Maryk and her brother are estranged, as she has explained here in some detail: she would in no way benefit from any of his business activities

Sure I read that too, but I find almost all of her claims dubious (she can't even get the religion of her senator right, and makes up shit when called on that too)

But even if she's speaking truly, she/they are still looking for something our attention.

If you follow my posts on these subjects you would notice that I back up what I say with links and quotes.

They won't because they can't.

I'm sure I've won your enmity at this point, but rather than attacking me, I ask you to disprove anything I've said about the "science" that these folks are mangling.

You, and they can't, so you'd rather complain about percieved "harassment"

whatever.

[marykmusic]

I am hereby announcing that I will no longer read, much less aanswer, Too Stoned. --MaryK

[tigre63]

I am hereby announcing that I will no longer read, much less aanswer, Too Stoned. --MaryK

Thats too bad, seems to me that TooStoned is very knowledgable in fields that interest you most. Perhaps he even has some insight on how to unite rather than divide, I invite you to look at your last post. Which road do you take?

Rather fitting this thread ends up in the Activism section. Im my mind it mirrors whats wrong with activism these days.

[Burnt Hill]

Sounds like we have gotten to too stoned. His circular reasoning fails to spin true. it seems some posters have forgotten that this site is called Rigorous Intuition, not Rigorous Scientific American. Too doesnt seem to mind that Jeff crosses reality tunnels all the time. Seems to me that the title of this website, along with the front page Rumi quote is an open invitation for us to use our intuition, by definition:the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference
. I think I will go remind eiAe of that. cover me.

[Burnt Hill]

please el tigre, why should she respond to a pompous person who insults and denigrates her? Is that the path you take?

[Et in Arcadia ego]

You bring nothing positive to the discussions. We have been sent to our own private topic room, you've made your opinion clear, yet you keep banging on the walls. To what purpose? What do you need, confirmation that you are right? and then will you go away? At least you are honest in that you are here to disrupt. Seems Jeff used to take a stance on that.

This is hilarious..Talk about a hypocrite.

If Jeff 'took a stance' on things in the way you mention, you'd be dust in the wind here, buddy, so food for thought.

Keep in mind that this area is as subject to moderation as any other. I have no problems whatsoever locking any of these threads up, so I repeat:

If you feel you've been dealt a shitty hand, head over here:

http://www.phpbb.com/

AND GET YOUR OWN ORGONE/MUDBALL FORUM...

[tigre63]

No Burnt Hill its not the path I take.

edit> changed is to its.

Hey, just noticed that this board doesn't list edit times. Or is it that I just can't see my own?

Might as well elaborate:

Personally, I would like to see more threads/posts that were a bit more polite in nature. I think, RI is at a crossroad now and is about to go down the path of alot of other boards. Boards that deliver more noise than signal. If I wanted that i wouldn't be here. The moderators Jeff chose I think relize this too and don't want this board to turn into just another run of the mill fight club.

I would hate to see RI degenerate into something I no longer would enjoy reading.

I guess its time to speak up.

[Burnt Hill]

Fair enough tigre 63 and hello eiAe. What do you say to this statement?:

Seems to me that the title of this website, along with the front page Rumi quote is an open invitation for us to use our intuition, by definition:the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference

And its pretty obvious we are not buddies, but you enjoy the insults dont you? guess what else, I can and will criticize what you do as moderator when appropriate, dont like it? you start your own forum. You may call me a hypocrit but you made the most hypocritical statement Ive seen when after all your bluster you said you'd believe if it benefitted you personally. Touchy subject ? many of us have been there and we dont take it out on others.

[philipacentaur]

Do people always cite the title of this web site/blog/message board when they don't like the analytical approach of others in the discussion? So-called "direct" perception of "truth" should always be filtered through one's logic faculties -- to skip that step leads to madness in many cases. This process is different for everyone. The people who claim to understand how everything works are inviting a shakedown, and that's how it should be, IMHO.

[Burnt Hill]

Far as I know, i am the only one who has done it, Mr Centaur, and in this instance it seemed appropriate. I dont think there is anyone here who doesnt appreciate an analytical approach. There does seem to be some who dont appreciate an intuitive approach at all, therefore the reference to the title and the quote. And I was bringing that specifically to eiAe, who had a problem and quoted me out of context because I said something didnt seem right , or feel right- to that extent. And who made the claim to understand how evrything works? Most of us are here to learn. Learning gets squashed when we use insults and derogatory statements and when we hold a heavy hand when we should be moderate. I too am occassionally guilty of that. So lets move on, again.

[philipacentaur]

I said that because I've seen it a lot. Look around some older (more heated) discussions around here, and I think you'll see it more.

It seems like "dragon" has everything figured out. I mean, we have him to thank for averting disaster in Iran...

I agree. Let's move on.

[Burnt Hill]

This is hilarious..Talk about a hypocrite.

If Jeff 'took a stance' on things in the way you mention, you'd be dust in the wind here, buddy, so food for thought.

AND GET YOUR OWN ORGONE/MUDBALL FORUM...

hey eiAe, has it been 48 hrs yet?

[Burnt Hill]

And so moving on, here in the Activism thread, how do we take the battle to the forces that seem sinister ? It seems to me that Dragons spiritual approach has merits. What do you suggest? Can we count on state and local politicians to hear us? Ive written letters yes. Should we march on the capitol-if its not covered on the telly did it happen? Seems some new approaches are in order. Again, what do you suggest? I am listening.