History of the Orgonite/Cloudbuster Movement

[professorpan]

Hugh writes:

You're the last one who should be admonishing me. You've called me a "harebrained" and "paranoid" and even "without the courage to do honest research" probably a coupla dozen times over the last year. I've gotten the same kicks in the ribs from orz and RobertDReed. And I didn't run out and start a thread to complain that you were "out of line." I addressed you in the context of the debate.

I have said your ideas are harebrained and paranoid, not you.

You haven't questioned my sincerity. Just my mental health and competence.
Thanks. Viva la difference.

I have said, repeatedly, that you are emotionally attached to your theories, to the point where criticism of your theories is taken as criticism of you. I have also stated that your arguments are very clear examples of confirmation bias. That, in your eyes, is "ad hominem attacks." Which is wrong -- I'm commenting on your ideas and examples.

When I called you out on violating Jeff's rule about accusing people of disinformation, you essentially ignored it -- because you know you are wrong.

1) I am "arguing about the ideas." Read again. I'm not being glibly dismissive unlike you so many times.
2) Quit accusing me of being a harebrained paranoid.

When you suggest that someone is deliberately spreading false information -- as you have now done on multiple occasions -- then you are showing that you can't abide by the very simple rules of this forum. I don't know why you insist on continuing to brand people like Dragon, Zap, MaryK and others as disinfo agents just because they have different beliefs than you.

And as long as your ideas and examples are harebrained and paranoid, I will continue to point that out. You are free to disagree and point out what you think are wrong with my ideas and opinions. But if you say I'm insincere or spreading disinformation, you'll continue to violate the rules -- and I'm not responsible for what happens then.

But back to the subject:

I am a believer in energies that cannot be measured with our current, conventional scientific methods. I've seen and experienced the medical and spiritual benefits of qigong, yoga, and other Eastern practices. My first qigong instructor was diagnosed with terminal heart disease. Her doctor (a Chinese man) directed her to qigong when he had given up on conventional treatments. She took up qigong and is now a healthy 80-plus year-old instructor with her own Acupuncture center.

Are there quacks in the field? Absolutely. Can qi or prana be a fanciful name for what science calls the placebo effect? Maybe. But the placebo effect itself is remarkable -- the mind healing the body. It's powerful enough that it might account for the healing anecdotes of orgone, qi, prayer, etc.

The orgone stories of Dragon et al seem very fanciful -- even harebrained -- to me. But people believe in fanciful things. The Internet gives such people an easy way to meet up with and communicate with others who share their beliefs. Flat-Earthers, UFO cults, channelers, spiritualists, and esoteric believers of all types have been around for aeons, only now they have email

And belief is a very powerful thing. Ask anyone who has been swept up in a cult, a movement, or an idea. If you believe in orgone, you will see it working in your life (again, confirmation bias). Ditto any other subject you choose to immerse yourself in, no matter how strange or illogical it seems to others.

Because of the your own BS (belief system), Hugh, you jump to the conclusion that the orgonite crusaders' capers are disinformation. Why? Because you screen nearly everything that passes your nose through a disinformation/not disinformation filter.

With that filter in place, nearly anything can be said to be intentional disinformation if it doesn't support what you believe to be the true model of reality. Ghost hunters? Disinformation. UFOs? Disinformation. Qigong? Cryptozoology? Orgone? Dowsing? All disinformation to keep people occupied with mumbo-jumbo as the fascists consolidate their power.

What that model fails to incorporate is one thing you have in great abundance -- creativity. People who believe in orgone and create assemblages of wire, crystal, and copper truly believe in what they are doing. I have met artists who are convinced their devices stop alien beams, promote peace, channel alien messages, or whatever. If one of them were to post here, you'd jump up and down screaming about how he or she is disrupting this precious, dangerous forum with disinformation.

So what if someone embraces ideas you think are kooky? As I said, I think your ideas are kooky, but I am quite sure you believe them. All I am asking is that you take off the disinformation blinders and consider that others have beliefs that seem kooky or illogical -- and consider that they just might be sincere.

Is that so difficult?

[MASONIC PLOT]

As someone who has personally experienced results through the meduim of Buddhist Meditation practice, under the guidance of Monks, I can speak with some authority when I tell you that chi energy is very real and by extension, orgone, qi and karma.

However...

I think a lot of you are missing Hugh's point. The point being, in my opinion, that the New Age religious movement and all its magical wand peddling charlatans are being used, manipulated and exploited to further a much more sinister agenda. One would be wise to consider this.

If these things really work there is no real need to advertise it, brag about it and make a living off its fruits. I consider the sale of ANY spirtual tool an outright RAPE OF THE MUSE. Indeed, I do appreciate one's ambition to buck the corporate fiat system and make their own way in life and I realize that one must feed, clothe and house themselves and their children, but it is nothing short of a rape of the muse, in my opinion, to peddle spiritual tools, insight, esoteric knowledge etc. These things should be offered freely and in fact there is no need to really even discuss such matters, if it IS real and you are able to "tap into it" so to speak, the results will speak for themselves. The more you achieve the deeper you go the more silent you will become as the desire to speak slowly fades away until finally you are left with only a content look upon your face at all times that says "I have found it," it is that look that will lead others, not orgone zappers, pentagrams and magical crystals. In short, just do it and let things be what they may. I have been studying esoteric sciences for most of my life and I have no real need to discuss such things with anyone else, it completely defeats the purpose of it to try and put it into words or products for sale, you must find it on your own and come to it on your own accord, it does much more harm to try and bring it to others (most especially by the introduction of money into the equation) than it does by simply letting them find it when they are ready. There are no tools, no charms, no magic wands, no mud balls, no fingernail clippings of the christ or john the baptist needed to achieve what it is these people peddle, you can do it, right now, this moment without the help of anything but the muse who sits patiently on your shoulder waiting for you to acknowledge and respect her power. All you really do is make her cry (and likely giggle) when you take out your magical wands and pentagrams and dance around your fires naked. These things are distractions and diversions and have been given to you for a reason and you know that reason, Hugh has been trying to point it out for a long, long time but people have stopped listening and are now only reacting. If you want the truth all you really need to do is sit quitely, clear your mind of all its clutter and learn to focus all of your energy on the here and now, fully. You do this, you will see extraordinary results.

[marykmusic]

How marvelous, Masonic Plot, that you worked and worked and found something that makes you feel like you're in the Here and Now. The present is an amazing place. But I feel a need to explain that I, too, have worked just as hard as you have, yet in my Here and Now I do not still my mind. Rather, I treasure my mind and all its processes.

You have found Buddhist meditation. Good for you.

You think what I'm doing is New Age. I never told you that. I have, however, quoted my brother Don Croft several times, over the time I've posted here, as calling that "newage-rhymes-with-sewage."

I'll tell you what. I won't call you something you're not (a Hindu, for example, or a Druid) and you, please, will do the same for me.

It is my understanding that the New Age movement was invented by the same people who brought us mind control via rock-and-roll; there's a thread about that and I don't have to go into it here. The same folks who supplied us with street drugs to circumvent so many people from achieving their true potential (and still do.) Who have accomplished the dumbing-down of the American educational system. The same ones who... --aw, shoot, it's all the same. --MaryK

[Et in Arcadia ego]

I'll gladly join MASONIC in meditation a thousand times over before I play ring around the Chembuster..

[marykmusic]

Okay, fine. But while you're in retreat from the world, there are those IN the world who are still working on destroying it, and you. What will you do then?

We're your front line of defense in the battle between Light and Dark. You don't have to join us, because we will do what we feel is the right thing whether you're in deep meditation or not. --MaryK

[Wombaticus Rex]

^^We're in retreat from the world? You put mudballs under cell phone towers and assume you're doing something because black helicopters show up.

[MASONIC PLOT]

Youre doing battle against imaginary forces. While I have no doubt evil forces do exist and in fact likely control this planet, they have no real power, only what you GIVE THEM. You drive a car, shop at their stores, use their internet, talk on their cell phones, cook with their fucking microwaves, burn their gasoline, eat their processed foods, drink their floruidated water, buy their clothing, pay their taxes, vote for them, live on the land they sell you, use their banks, work in their factories. This is what gives them power.


If you do not do ANY of the above, then jesus christ im dropping everything and coming to follow you now because youre truly a messiah worth veneration. Otherwise....

[dragon]

Well, Rex, if it didn't make a difference, then why did the helicopters come there?

And Masonic, what you wrote about meditation is just fine with me. You go off and meditate. Those who sit and meditate also serve, to borrow a phrase from Mr.Roosevelt's war. They serve by staying out of the way.

The skeptics and hoot-down artists, they also have a place in the Mother Goddess' plan. They keep discussions such as this alive, and allow perception to command a space between the ears of those who are ready to receive it.

Such commotion draws crowds, some participate, others begin to think. The Light spreads, understanding expands, and the dark side loses a few more resources.

Commanded to either lead, follow, or get out of the way, Masonic has chosen to get out of the way. I appreciate that, Masonic. There's a real war going on, and I don't want someone beside me who is less than committed. Having you there would be like being one man short.

Give my greetings to Bhudda, please, and thank him for functioning as a baby-sitter for us. He and I don't have much to say to each other, separate paths and all that, you know. Once in a while we do collaborate with Pele, though. She's more action-oriented than Bhudda.

Dragon

Z-Force Group. Arizona's Global Tyranny First Response Team.

[MASONIC PLOT]

Next time you start that car up and burn a little more gasoline and pay your internet bill, just remind yourself, "im doing battle against these evil fuckers" maybe itll help you justify your fucking hypocrisy. Seriously brother, lets be honest if nothing else ok?

[Wombaticus Rex]

Well, Rex, if it didn't make a difference, then why did the helicopters come there?

Because you live in Arizona, that's where Boening manufactures Black Helicopters.

Link:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/14 ... page2.html

Again, the connection only exists in your head, just like the war you're fighting. Nothing wrong that, I just don't take you very seriously, is all.

By the way, have you figured out how to test Braden's claim that the Earth's spin is slowing down yet?

[Joe Hillshoist]

Wombat you have read Liber Null and all that.

Do you think there is any room in what Carrol talks about for the ideas that the Orgonite mob push, to work?

[Wombaticus Rex]

^^I think that any belief system can be utilized to accomplish acts of will.

I'm a lot more interested in the mechanism underlying how Will alters reality, than I am analyzing the minutae of the endless colors of bullshit that people use to "Explain" their powers. Ultimately, all that gets in the way, I'm interested in the One Core Principle underlying prayer, ritual, hypnosis, meditation, UFO phenomena, morphic resonance, chi, orgone, all that.

It's a unified field and I want to understand it, not hear arguments from people too attached to their own lies to understand their own power.

[MASONIC PLOT]

I with Rex on that. Very well said.

[Joe Hillshoist]

The skeptics and hoot-down artists, they also have a place in the Mother Goddess' plan. They keep discussions such as this alive, and allow perception to command a space between the ears of those who are ready to receive it.

Such commotion draws crowds, some participate, others begin to think. The Light spreads, understanding expands, and the dark side loses a few more resources.

Commanded to either lead, follow, or get out of the way, Masonic has chosen to get out of the way. I appreciate that, Masonic. There's a real war going on, and I don't want someone beside me who is less than committed. Having you there would be like being one man short.

Give my greetings to Bhudda, please, and thank him for functioning as a baby-sitter for us.He and I don't have much to say to each other, separate paths and all that, you know. Once in a while we do collaborate with Pele, though. She's more action-oriented than Bhudda.

(Edited for this cos I forgot it)

Thats a bit fucking rich. So the only for of spiritual war, or action that you acceppt is the sort you define as acceptable.

Thats not much different than people telling you to shut up cos they don't like your view of mudballs.

Btw

Agni Hotra is an Indian concept.

Indian spirituality recognises that the focus on conflict begets more conflict.

One thing I wonder about your trip dragon is that your focus on the war effectively negates the healing you are attempting.

Possessed by war are you young padwan

war is speaking through every mouth it can at the moment, and there are a lot of similarities between your rhetoric and that of the neocons.

You might claim to be on opposite sides, but its the same coin.

[MASONIC PLOT]

So leading, following or getting out of the way are the only three options offered in your religion? Interesting, I never knew that. Learn something everyday.

I prefer a fourth option. Just being. Of course such a thing is never peddled by the religions, new age or otherwise. It might just be too liberating. Better to keep you fighting IMAGINARY WARS. Distracted, diverted and completely spent.

As in " I went to the woods so that I could cease to live and begin to be" Thoreau--Walden Pond.

You pay lip service to pacifism by acknowledging the fact that they GIVE US THE WARS and get energy from them, yet you continue to advocate fighting the very wars they thrive on. Where is the power in that, real power is looking the other way and not even noticing their little games. What you are doing is NOT empowering, its called SUCCUMBING. Again lets be HONEST with the words we use, thats all I ask, really. Post what you want but please, please choose your words honestly.