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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:23 pm
by Joe Hillshoist
Slightly OT Hugh, but did you know that cloud seeding isn't the only spray chemical used for weather mod.

Look up Dyn O Gel.

Not that it was much use in New Orleans last year.

But orgone accumulators are not mythical. Seriously Reich did some bent experiments pre ww2 before he was chased out of Europe. Attatching electrodes to the genetalia of people having sex and measuring changes in fields aroiund their body. That was what lead him to the idea of Orgone when he and Freud were working with each other, about 40 or 50 years before I was born.

he claimed to be tapping into and measuring what I consider chi to be. No ones gonna tell me that is a mythical thing and have me take them seriously.

Which brings me back to this...

Relax, Joe. The Don Croft cloudbuster does not accumulate DOR. It transmutes it. What Reich was doing with his cloudbuster was moving DOR from one point to another.

I remember when the chem busters started, and the HHG things which were actually quite pretty sometimes.

But I still don't buy this transmutation thing. How does it work?

Cos see orgone is a LIFE force. Its generated by living process and flows through fields that are created by the movement of living processes. The original CB had to be connected to a living water source cos there is something about good living water, water that flows and isn't stagnant, that somehow "cleanses" stuff. It has to do with what happens in turbulance. thats what Steiner (I think ?) was getting at wiith his construction of flow forms, creating a moving process of turbulance, because turbulance is chaotic, and for whatever reason chaotic processes seem to favour this cleansing, probably has something to do with all that quantuum (as rincewind or someone said).

I see no room for this process in the Croft CB. I am struggling to find the life force generators in metal shavings and araldite.

So I am curious about this, and have been since about dec2001.

I always figured i would get the opportunity to bring it up. Eventually.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:30 pm
by Hugh Manatee Wins
Wombaticus Rex wrote:
Username wrote:I'm very uncomfortable with the message Dragon is bringing to this board and am surprised that Jeff would allow his recruiting efforts to carry on in this way for so long.

Perhaps it's because Jeff has respect for the critical facilities of board members?

Perhaps it's because he has the reasonable expectation that we're all adults here?

Without becoming a paranoid fighty-bitey bunch, I hope this proves to some skeptics that this board and others REALLY DO attract malevalence trying to confuse us.

No surprise. Don't consider it 'amusing' or 'harmless' anymore than a KKK parade.
Bullshit Kills.

I'm wishing I'd made my username instead 'Rationality Wins' since so many humane people are too nice to be critical.

Reminder: Part of being human is preventing efforts to neutralize our abilities.

Group: ExxonMobil paid to mislead public

WASHINGTON - ExxonMobil Corp. gave $16 million to 43 ideological groups between 1998 and 2005 in a coordinated effort to mislead the public by discrediting the science behind global warming, the Union of Concerned Scientists asserted Wednesday.
Alden Meyer, the Union of Concerned Scientists' strategy and policy director, said in a teleconference that ExxonMobil based its tactics on those of tobacco companies, spreading uncertainty by misrepresenting peer-reviewed scientific studies or cherry-picking facts.

Dr. James McCarthy, a professor at Harvard University, said the company has sought to "create the illusion of a vigorous debate" about global warming.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:03 pm
by Wombaticus Rex
^^I think it's more than likely that dragon honestly believes his own bullshit.

It seems a bit redundant and un-nescessary to pay people to act like quacks and discredit honest research with the same tired bullshit that's been plaguing Western Civilization for decades many people are already doing that on their own for free. They're dedicated because they're true believers and there's no need to recruit or pay them.

I'm not saying that in reference to your exxon mobile article -- that's a whole other enchilada and deeply disturbing stuff.

Does orgone work?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:11 pm
by Trifecta
I don't doubt a life force, chi, prana and orgone etc exists and when you start breaking up clouds with your very own eyes, the doors of perception come tumbling down. However, having gifted (spread mine and others orgone creations around ) throughout Europe and being partly responsible for building the largest Croftian cloudbuster in Europe, had black helis follow me around and other mystical/paranormal experiences, met and communicated with exceptionally intelligent people from all walks of life from around the world...I conclude it has an energy signature that most mainstream sciences denies..but I suppose they still cannot get past the second law of thermodynamics. Unless you try it for yourself, you will never know.

On the other hand, Dragon is full of shit and I agree with Hugh on mostly everthing he has said (however uninformed on certain aspects of the technology). this man is a one man army for converting the nieve to the cult of dragon and undermined the orgone network more than any other and that includes paid agents.

At best he is a delusional fool at worst something far more dangerous.

Seems wharever I go the dragons of this world corrupt the purity of genuine activists...and I actually have an empathy for dragons :shock:

The thing to remember, is the forgoton crystal in these creations, they are taken back to their natural state and programmed with the creationist intent. crystals have been used throughout the ages and at worst they are a very powerful placebo I am still not sure that the power of the placebo is much underated?

Dragon disrupted the network with water creations negating orgone, then the power of his own finger taking out helicopters, and now cow shit balls, then his dead mate taking out nukes etc and he claims to be an orgone activist :? I say delusional at best and gawd knows what in reality?

This man is not to be trusted and I say that from my very own personal experienes of him and his henchman throughout the orgone network.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:36 pm
by marykmusic
So, Osculum, do your skies look like this? This is our youngest boy and I on a trail about a mile from home.

This has become normal here, indeed as it used to be. Sure, we still get chemtrails, but they don't stick. --MaryK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:56 pm
by Joe Hillshoist
Thank you Osculum

I had completely forgotten about the crystals.

I actually think crystals do something, but after living in a part of the world where chrystals and other nbew age gibberish become marketing tools for tools, I tend to switch off about them. And have for years.

But you are right, despite the new age marketing bullshit there is SOMETHING about them. I remember hearing somewhere that quartz crystal may be a naturally formed interferometer.

The world is full of wannabe cult leaders, most of them have serious ego issues.

It reminds me of that South Park episode where Cartman becomes a psychic detective

Back in the early croftian days I remember trying to do CB things using a hybrid mix of Tai Chi and imagination. It definitely seemed to work, and fit with other ideas I had about human chi and the earth and how they relate.

That was weird, and fun, and made me feel that your own rituals involving movement could have the same effect as a CB device.

Thats where Reich was coming from anyway. From what i remember he invented his original CBs while trying to mimick the effect of rain dances.

Email me and I'll show you how to do it.

try here

living water

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:40 am
by pitcairn
this is all really interesting, from all viewpoints

joe, I believe you are thinking of Viktor Schauberger, rather than Rudolf Steiner, in re living water; the book Living Water by Callum Coates is still in print I think and good, as I recall. there are quite a few 'rigorous" sites dealing with ongoing developments in living water theory and apps, mostly our friends in sweden, whose notions of applied and theoretical science seem a good bit more open and speculative while still having their feet on the ground

Steiner was involved in a number of things with scientific basis and application, but in the context of this discussion, biodynamics is prolly what you were recalling

fascist disinformation and the new age co-optation of previously demonstrated science, such as potentials and properties of crystals, pretty well converge and become one, lol

can't recall the fellow's name at the moment - no doubt someone else here will - but he was a IBM guy, engineer, ended up doing no end of good experimentation and demonstration with crystals ??? ring a bell for anyone?

maryk, your pix show, for sure, laru ni hati (endless blue skies) so whatever you are doing, it looks good, and also happy for you in that to ride a horse is to borrow freedom, so it doesn't get much better than that

osculuminfame, I think maybe dragon is running into some "lost in translation" problems here on the board; out where he and maryk live, people live and think a little differently. next door to az, don't forget, is new mexico, the land of enchantment and also home to the Lincoln County Wars, better known outside the southwest as "the saga of Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid"

Billy was not at all a hardened criminal, he was young and homeless and tried like hell to stick by the rancher who gave him work, a home, and friendship - that led Billy and others to sign up as constables, eventually in open conflict with some very corrupt sheriff's deputies who had killed that rancher in cold blood.

there's more to the story, but it was Billy's better nature that got him killed, in the end, and government/army corruption is at the black heart of it

what has that to do with dragon and maryk? well it's possible to be an outlaw yet not a criminal, and to have a good time and do some good while you're about it - every man and woman a sovereign of him or herself; it all seems fair enough when the official sovereign is out to take you down and usurp what's yours by right

I don't think dragon is a vandal or is inciting anyone to anything nefarious at all; I think he's just a man of his place on the earth, and the rules and ways of that place have a character all their own

picture dragon on horseback, covered in dust, a picture of maryk safe in his shirt pocket, next to his heart, cocking an old colt loaded with prana/qi bullets, then shootin' em up in the air in that town with a corrupt mayor/sherriff/mining baron/other before he turns and rides out, and disappears into the desert

that's dragon

does it work, what he's doing? probably, altho maybe not for the reasons he thinks it does

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:48 am
by marykmusic
Dragon's more of a Jesse James than a Billy the Kid.

And he won't ride anything that's not green and yellow. --MaryK


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:54 am
by pitcairn
okay maryk, good to know who's riding your territory and what's their mount, lol

you could tell the jesse james true story one of these days, it seems pretty fitting lately

oh those pesky seditious ghosts, lol, will they never rest?

I heard a loud "hell no!" just now, didn't you?

Re: living water

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:00 am
by Hugh Manatee Wins
pitcairn wrote:this is all really interesting, from all viewpoints
I don't think dragon is a vandal or is inciting anyone to anything nefarious at all; I think he's just a man of his place on the earth, and the rules and ways of that place have a character all their own

Pitcairn, I don't think you've read what Dragon and MaryK have actually written and you've spun your own romanticized 'rugged individual' fantasy right out of the imagery that helped elect propagandist Ronald Reagan.

A plaid shirt and mystic vocabulary do not balance out against stark lies like "Arizona is green from top to bottom" plus so many more along with the "orgone accumulator" nonsense that perfectly mirrors and then Orwell-ifies Senate Bill #517.

There's a massive disinformation campaign around S. 517 and chemtrails. Just what the very widespread chemtrails are and do (cloud seeding) is being hidding from the American people with the nonsense that Dragon and MaryKmusic have been posting here.

Did you see the Union of Concerned Scientists press release about ExxonMobil buying millions of dollars worth of disinformation about global warming?

As I said, check again.
You are seeing what you want to see based on perhaps incomplete data.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:24 am
by Joe Hillshoist
Ha To be Honest dragon sounds like my neighbour (kind of - hes down the road and up the valley) Rusty.

Check him out, he's a classic. And to be honest, a lot more fun to hang out with and party than he is when he's lecturing us on how to save the world.

But check his place out too. Doesn't matter how insane you are if you live in a permaculture heaven and keep really healthy horses you must have something going for you.

I was thinking of Steiner BTW Pitcairn, tho I think Schauberger was probably onto the same thing. V interesting chap that one.

And the flow forms were shown to me by a bio dynamic farmer, along with his rave about steiner. Heaps of Steiner schools around here too.

Dunno the other fella you are talking about off hand. might come to me eventually. BTW OT Enjoyed your Rom post. there is an old Romany storyteller about 100km s of hear in a town called Grafton, never met him, but I have had quite a few people from that mob as friends over the years... We have had some good times over the years. Interestig culture from what I have heard...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:26 am
by dbeach
"I don't think dragon is a vandal or is inciting anyone to anything nefarious at all; I think he's just a man of his place on the earth, and the rules and ways of that place have a character all their own "


It is all in what you preceive as Dragon
And It does depend on what your defintion of the word is

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:55 am
by Joe Hillshoist
does it work, what he's doing? probably, altho maybe not for the reasons he thinks it does

Yeah i kind of agree with this. same thing with pendulums if people are getting info from them. I had a little jade buddha that did very similar things and a lot more.

Anyway agnihotra involves cow dung. not all hindu sacrificial ash does, I dunno if the stuff I have does, if so then cow pat ash is yummy.

But one thing that does involve cow dung and has already been vaguely mentioned is Biodynamics.

Although it may not work as well in Aussie cos of the soil structure and a few other things, as it does everywhere else. Even here in good fertile soil byodynamic produce is so much nicer than most other food.

Its awesome fertilizer on its own, without the cow horns and full moon rituals that biodynamic farmers use, but it seems to improve with that process, whatever its called.

One thing I see in common between cragon's stories and Biodynamics, is an arcane nature an a potential for mythology.

Somewhere in here creation forces are invoked. Wayrrull power if you like.Its in this strangeness that what we have called "the Dreamtime" (tho its a bit different for us) becomes more available to us. When we act in mythological mind spaces. Well IMO anyway.

I think this process is also at play with tptb.

The process is also accessed through their mythology.

The process or whatever is morally neutral. IE God might be good, but you do with the power he (or she) (or them or it) has given you comes from you. Ultimately its your and my responsibility what we do with our dreaming. If we use it to invoke or evoke forces of evil and nastiness we are effectively creating them in this world.

It has the effect on the world that negative chi flow has on the body. It damages the organs of the world.

thats why mythology is so important, that guiding ethos that gives meaning and direction comes through it.

Its also why so many esoteric schools (the ones no one ever hears of, whose graduates are everywhere trying in their own small way to heal the world) have such strict processes of self disciple, something that the heros of western occultism seem to lack in spades.

So that when the Wayrrull becomes available to humans, as it always will, the humans don't send it flowing the wrong way.

Anyway thats my take on it.

Dragons acting on a mythology that enables him to fight evil by healing the world.

biodynamicists are using a mythology that enables arcane powers to improve the growth and health of the life those powers are applied to.

To me both are cases of people accessing the deamtime, or our western version of it. Thats what could be allowing the magic to happen. I mean just cos someone's got an irritating online personality (and its not that irritating - I have been taking shots at Dragon for days and he hasn't responded once with any hostility or vitriol, personally I find my own posts more annoying when I reread them) that does not mean they are automatically some alphabet spook.

But yeah mythology has a powerful current flowing through it.

In fact the whole idea of "myth Busters" should be examined in that light. IMO

whoa there!

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:06 am
by pitcairn
hey Hugh, hold up there, friend!

"Pitcairn, I don't think you've read what Dragon and MaryK have actually written and you've spun your own romanticized 'rugged individual' fantasy right out of the imagery that helped elect propagandist Ronald Reagan. "

let's take this one at a time: I haven't been here as long as you have, and so admittedly have probably read much less of what they've written than have you, fair enough; I don't spin any "rugged individual" fantasies when I'm spinning fantasies, cos the "rugged individual" is a dangerous, deceitful concocted and cock-eyed myth that came NOT out of the West but from other sources, and has been used for admittedly nefarious purposes.

Hugh, any rural person can tell you no rural person who is a "rugged individualist" can long survive on a frontier, or even in a rough terrain today, unless willing to cross certain 'barriers" (the mountain men), or incredibly - and I mean that literally - lucky. Cooperation with and respect for the land, your non-human and human neighbors, a healthy awe in the face of the Creator and humility before your own flawed nature are more like it.

mistakes are easy, learning is hard

the modern/media "cowboy" image is horseshit and the real cowboys were/are all about control of and power over themselves in difficult and dangerous situations, not control of and power over others, unless in response to a direct and real threat

real cowboys had, and some still have, plenty of dangerous and dirty and immensely difficult challenges every working day, and would not go looking for more just for the hell of it, I tell you what

I'm no stranger to some tricky spots myself and like most sensible people I will try like hell to come out in one piece, with everyone else in one piece, with my integrity intact and leaving the place and its inhabitants a bit better than I found them

I'll give help where needed and take it when needed and offered. hell, I'll even ask for it sometimes, false pride goeth before a helluva fall, in my experience

sorry to get so personal here, but it seemed to me you were getting pretty personal yourself, and not getting it - not getting my ideas, anyway - right

I see a lot of things, Hugh, and most of them are not at all what I want to see, and in that I am surely not alone

I respect the Union of Concerned Scientists, and I certainly give great weight to their statements and findings; it may surprise you to know that I admire greatly Dr John Goffman and his work, as well as others and other work of that ilk

it would probably really surprise you if you could see me: yes, I confess I am wearing a plaid shirt, something I do more days than not

as for a mystic vocabulary, I guess you could say that one man's mysticism is another man's science

did it occur to you that maryk and dragon may be producing beautiful clear skies through the power of their intent and belief and profound good will toward the earth?

maybe their devices are just a means for Creator to get them out in the places they need to go, while the important thing they are carrying there is actually themselves?

I don't know. neither do you

they probably don't really either, but they have their ideas about it all

maybe the ancestor spirits in the land are honouring intent and good will by summoning great natural powers and joining with the humans, helping them help the land and sky

like I said, I don't know. as you have said, things are knowable, and yes, some things are, but not all at once and not everything and not by everyone

on another thread you said you take the trial lawyer's approach, but you must mean a trial lawyer from back east; a famous trial lawyer from just north of maryk and dragon once said that as a trial progresses, the critical moment always comes when he closes his eyes and just listens - not for what is being said, but for what is happening in that space, and then he knows what to do. you might know of him - Gerry Spence

of course he doesn't walk into that room unprepared or unpracticed; he walks into that room in the way a cowboy or farmer - a real one - comes to a possibly dangerous canyon or slope, trying to find a strayed animal:
packing all the preparation and good will he/she can into his/her awareness, then letting go and listening for what is really happening in that space/moment

then it's time to go for the best outcome that can be mustered, the best outcome for everyone and everything concerned

btw real cowboys of the Old West read books, eagerly attended travelling shakespearean theatricals as well as performances by the celebrated of the day, including classically trained musician and singers, and were not dumbclucks

it takes a smart man or woman to get and keep cooperation going with nature

for a fun read, try "the Last of the Cowboys" being reminiscences of just that, the last of the cowboys

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:18 am
by pitcairn
oh and Hugh, the Billy the Kid and Jesse James references are actually really on point - your point

both William Bonney (Billy) and the James boys were victims of a militarised, lying, cheating, corrupt, and corporatist, for that matter, politics of their day

in short they'd been screwed by the antecedents of the same forces alive today that you yourself deplore

and they weren't hardened criminals, Hugh, they were tricksters, Reynard the Fox to use a european reference point

they tried to get back some balance in the way of things, and Billy tried to help a true friend, and was, don't forget, a constable himself at the time

Frank James would have held his own in any conversation here, no doubt