Page 5 of 5

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:17 am
by Joe Hillshoist
retrocausality, like outcome first cuase second?

You are an interesting person pitcairn.

Peter J carroll, a chaos majic writer and theorist mentioned that he had done some experiments on retrocausality , if we are talking about the same thing.

I know some aboriginal dancers who are literally magical in their ability to become the creature they are dancing. I wouldn't be sirprised if they slip out the back and actually shapeshift. ;)

My friend had a didge tuned to the C, or G, haven't seen him for a few years, that matched the sun s period or cycle or whatever. I dunno the details properly. But sometimes when he played the light would go even more golden. here in the arvo we get some pretty beautiful light, but his playing used to add something else to it.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:07 am
by pitcairn
hey joe,

you are interesting, too !

glad you brought up the didge ... an "old woman" once told me that long ago women played them (ceremonially, magically), too, (even primarily, I think) and one day when things are "different," they will again and that will be one of the good signs

the dancers, yes, like the kachinas, it's real all right and nothing to fool with or take lightly, I'd say

I will look up Peter Carroll, sorry I don't recall off the top of my head whose research I was reading about

I'll have a look round for a good description, as I might mangle it up pretty badly

didges for fun

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:16 am
by pitcairn
I'm particularly fond of attending highland games from time to time and a band that plays at lots of them are the Wicked Tinkers

bagpipe, drums, bronze age iron horn and ... didge!

I'm not good at finding or sending sound files, but here's their site:

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:27 am
by Wombaticus Rex
Liber Null and Psychonaut is among the best books I've read on any topic. Carroll is quite a dude. I'm looking forward to his book on physics, if it ever comes out.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:06 am
by Joe Hillshoist
he's writing a book on physics?

That'll be interesting.

Liber null and Psychonaut are awesome aren't they.

liber kaos is pretty good too. If you haven't read it, just expands on the stuff in the first volume.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:10 am
by Wombaticus Rex
Psybermagick was excellent, too. But LN&P is a very singular work.

Yeah, you can get a sense of where he's headed at his current site Specularium.

In fact, come to think of it, it was in the closing chapters of Psybermagick that he first started ruminating on his "6D Hyperwarp" phyiscs/magick intersection. It's a lot less lucid than LN&P but very fascinating stuff.

Also, here's an excellent interview if you haven't seen it:

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:27 am
by Joe Hillshoist
cool I haven't really caught up with carrols work for a good ... shit since the 20th century. He seems like a mind thats always moving forward, I'm on my way there now.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:51 am
by marykmusic
Plaza Blanca, near Abiquiu, New Mexico. Looks magical to me.

Image --MaryK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:39 pm
by Joe Hillshoist
Oh yeah mary, I just went and checked a whole series of photos of that place.

Its beautiful, and seems to have an aura of power about it for sure.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:55 pm
by pitcairn
mary, thanks for posting that pic

and joe, mary

yeah there are many places like this in this neck of the mesas, lol

joe, a story kind of like your currawonga journey...

a friend of mine used to be married to a medicine man who was mixed, two tribes that aren't supposed to mix; and in fact he was a bad fella, his medicine was no good, so it was really sorcery


he used to take her to a place she knew very well, and show her a waterfall she could never find in that place when she went on her own; he showed a few other people too from time to time

now you can guess that waterfalls are not abundant in new mexico, but sure enough, the legends say there is a waterfall there

and for some people, some of the time, there still is

for everyone else it's long gone

up in that same neck of mesas by plaza blanca there is a building that no one knows how it got there, when, who built it, nothing

now it's a mosque


PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:42 pm
by Joe Hillshoist
a friend of mine used to be married to a medicine man who was mixed, two tribes that aren't supposed to mix; and in fact he was a bad fella, his medicine was no good, so it was really sorcery

Blackfellas have similar beliefs, based in the concept of Moities.

Now its a mosque :lol:

Yeah thats a strange story and it resonates with me. Although I used to exact opposite argument to poo poo that underground bases idea yesterday.

Some places hide out in the open.

I smoke a fair bit of mull, and have for years.

So when I was at SCU at the Indigenous College there I'd often bail for a smoke.

there was a patch of rainforest in the middle of the uni where people would go for a choof. there were bongs stashed all over it that everyone left. dunno whose they were...

One day a friend and I are sitting in there. this guy was a Bundjalung man, where I live is Bundjalung country, well thats how its referred to.

We used to skip the class "Bundjalung cultural heritage" and he'd go tell me his peoples stories over a few pipes in the rainforest remnant. He's a close friend, his old man is or was head of some land council or other.

One day I'd told my wife to meet me in there.

We were doing our thing. And a bunch of students came in and sat next to us, a meter away, through the bush. they had a session while we sat there, having the odd bong and chatting and laughing. we knew we were only a meter and 100 miles away from them. they never knew we were there, some were friends, who would have said hello. We often met those people in that patch of forest.

That was the context of our little chats tho. It was the real cultural heritage. Living in the bush, being there and being part of it.

My wife came in and sat down opposite us. After a minute or two we popped out and said Hi.

She said that she thought we were in there, but just wasn't sure. we should have been in full view to her. She could hear us laughing.

It was actually a real privelege to hear ole matey's stories, and it added so much to my knowledge and understanding and helped me get closer to the land I loved. (Cheers Tule)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:40 am
by pitcairn
hey Joe,

I had a few difficult tasks to take care of since last night, so didn't get back to read here til late, but your story above posted stayed with me all the while, like some dreams do, you know?

I still can't put into words what got carried by it, but thanks for telling it, really, very much

I still haven't located the retrocausality study I had been thinking of, that I had referenced previously, I'll find it eventually, but this one is good too: ... guy15.html

since I stepped away from the board I've lost track of where some threads are and were and where certain posts were ... but pendulums seems hospitable enough to mention a couple unrelated things:

you mentioned Opus Dei, and while I know that is a very ... big and enigmatic subject, I did want to let you know, if you don't already, that new mexico has a very old, as old as the hispanic settlement of the area (15th c) network of "penitentes" - men who flagellate themselves as a spiritual practice

it's very old school and closed off to anglos, but still very strong

there are both men and women who still make the pilgrimage to the shrine at chimayo on their knees, for miles

modern new mexicans are the descendants of the original spanish settlers (rather than being in any way from mexico) and the original land grants are often still intact: the deal was if they came and stayed, they became "hidalgo" - nobles; there is such a thing in nm as "hidalguismo" - pride in one's nobility, identifying with it

new mexico also has many descendants of "conversos" - sephardic jews who outwardly converted (to christianity) and then went from south america thro mexico to new mexico to escape the inquisition

guess you could say it's a place awash in ancestor spirits of all kinds

not sure why I felt prompted to tell all that, but I did

maybe someone wanted their story told, or a bit of it, anyway

you spoke of talking to the land, it made me think of this book, that you might like:

Talking to the Ground
Douglas Preston

In 1992 Doug Preston and his family rode horseback across 400 miles of desert in Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico. They were retracing the route of the Navajo deity Naayéé' neizghání, the Slayer of Alien Gods, on his quest to restore beauty and balance to the Earth.

also, you mentioned that both your dad and wife had been ill some while back, and I just wanted to express the hope and wish that they are both now well

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:33 am
by marykmusic
From the Zuni rez south of Gallup, there is an annual walk to an ancestral power place near the originally Spanish Land Grant town of San Juan. After the Mormons got there and applied for a name for their post office, it became St. Johns.

I have done some research and written a Mariachi-style song about the Land Grants. My son-in-law's mother is a Nunez, a land grant family from somewhere around the Magdalena area.

"Hispanic" is the proper term for those people; Mexico had little to do with where they came from. --MaryK

Edit: Meanwhile, back at the topic...

In 1981 my family had had enough of living in Winslow; we started calling it "Lose-fast." We headed out with the old Travel-all driven by my second husband and my 5-year-old son in it along with a very pregnant milk goat. Best friend and I, and my 8-year-old daughter, rode and walked with a big pony (my young, green Welsh-Arab), a small pony ridden by my girl, and Dru leading the Bar N filly that was not yet two. At our first campsite we started sewing a huge length of canvas into a tipi.

Our second campsite, a more public place farther down Chevelon Creek, had plenty of grass and we planned on staying the limit. An old Quarter Horse gelding started messing with our three mares, trying to bust them loose when they were tied up at night. Instead we caught him, and the Forest Service guy (we were still pretty radical and called him a Tree Pig behind his back) said the horse was abandoned, we could take him along and they'd keep track of where we were in case somebody wanted him back. But the horse was old enough to vote and had a huge hernia.

What does this have to do with dowsing? That's how we decided our route. We needed water and grass at each campsite, and our map sometimes showed springs that had dried up and others that were not marked as water. So I started map-dowsing, using my necklace as a pendulum. We traveled about 20 miles each riding day, sometimes more. But my dowsing skills were 100% correct, even when there was no spring on the map. We would get there, and the horses would find a little puddle, or seep, and plenty of grass where it wasn't expected.

That summer we traveled over 300 miles like that, and ended up at Hannagan's Meadow, a paradise at over 9000'. There was even a place where there had been a Rainbow gathering about three years before, and we found a full set of tipi poles stashed up in some trees. (Didn't dowse for that. It was simply serendipitous.)

And I was collecting stories the whole time. This is just another one. --MaryK