The Demon Was an Idea (Part Two and a half)

[avalonconnection]

Professor,

Thank you. The interesting thing about Hynek was after all those years of trying to "disprove" the U.F.O. phenomena, he came to be a believer. Even when project Blue Book was disbanded, he continued on with his scientific research in this field for many years until his death.

I am puzzled by all of the antagonism as well. I have always considered R.I. to be one of the last "safe" places to be heard.

AvalonConnection

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

[quote="professorpan" Just because burnt happens to buy into the orgone/agnihotra stuff shouldn't make his accounts suspicious.[/quote]

I'll clarify that there is a difference between being taken in by the orgone nonsense and actually proselytizing it.

But is a carefully calculated lie meant to muddle understanding of the policies enacted by Senate Bill 517.

And that lie is deliberate, not 'wishfull' or 'metaphorical' thinking. It is a manufactured lie just like ExxonMobil's manufactured uncertainty around global warming which the Union of Concerned Scientists just outed with documentation.

[Telexx]

I appreciate the stories here. I'm into the gifting thing but I am aware that greater minds than I understood the complex nature of reality:

"Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable."

Albert Einstein.

There are many non-mainstream views expressed on this message board. Shit, people might even learn something and wouldn't that be cool.

Thanks,

Telexx

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

There are many non-mainstream views expressed on this message board. Shit, people might even learn something and wouldn't that be cool.

Thanks,

Telexx

As someone who expresses non-mainstream views myself, I also appreciate RI as a forum for us and don't mean to be a wet blanket. But discussion must allow for the reality that there are things which are true and false. Not just 'whatever floats your boat.'

You said what resonates with me the most, Telexx.
"People might even learn something and wouldn't that be cool."

Well said, Telexx.

Thanks,
HMW

[avalonconnection]

HMW wrote:

But discussion must allow for the reality that there are things which are true and false. Not just 'whatever floats your boat.'

Hugh, beyond the fact that your R.I. name is absolutely brilliant and appeals to my writer's side, I have often admired your postings as well and found most of them to be thought provoking.

But I have to ask you a question regarding the quote above. Wouldn't you agree that what one finds as "truth" or "falsehood" in their personal view of the world is totally subjective?

I believe the stories on this thread, my own included, are not flights of fancy or merely the act of "floating our boats". I wonder, did you actually mean that, in the "absolute sense", that because we believed what we experienced to be true for us, that in turn we are not living in "reality"?

True, there are things that can be verified as "truth" or "falsehood" by scientific means. But the beauty of this forum is that we can look at things that aren't verifiable by science, written documentation, etc.

For instance, millions of people believe in "God" or an "Infinite Intelligence" in the Universe. Is it proven by science? No. Some believers will tell you that the Bible is "proof" of its existence. I would ask does the "belief" in its existence give it power and make it so or does it just exist on its own without the need to prove its existence? Oh oh...crossed over into existentialism hell, here...lol

In this circumstance regarding the belief in "God", I guess it comes down to that intangible called "faith". Anyhow, just a few thoughts streaming from my consciousness.

Thanks for listening,

AvalonConnection

[Jeff]

discussion must allow for the reality that there are things which are true and false.

Hugh, it's your presumption to arbitrate the experience of others that is disallowing discussion.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

discussion must allow for the reality that there are things which are true and false.

Hugh, it's your presumption to arbitrate the experience of others that is disallowing discussion.

Please, everyone, discuss as much as you need to sort out for yourselves.

Jeff, I think you're warning 'don't shut people down' because I posted "don't bite on this stuff." And dialogue has continued with my viewpoint included as I knew it would when I posted that.

I wouldn't even expect dialogue to be "disallowed" because I knew I would cause some reaction to me. And because science and weather infowar is a serious topic I will note that the 'orgone' curfuffle shortly preceded the expose on ExxonMobil global warming disinfo is worth saying right out loud for anyone to examine.

So I'm glad of the discussion. I've read varied but thoughtful responses.
As someone else just posted-
"Perhaps somebody learned something. That's always cool!"

I've posited a viewpoint and so have the orgone promoters. Y'all can read for yourselves or I wouldn't bother to say anything.

[Jeff]

Jeff, I think you're warning 'don't shut people down' because I posted "don't bite on this stuff." And dialogue has continued with my viewpoint included as I knew it would when I posted that.

But as you may have noticed Hugh, once again, the dialogue is about you and your idée fixe.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I am a bit puzzled by arcadia's trip too, but he did mod at ctc and that would have given him a very different view on some things. Maybe he has seen this or something v similar before and is sus on it cos he saw the consequences of it.

Sometimes stuff like that gets me frustrated too, just cos its so ... not grounded in anything relevant. But here's me in the basement of my glass house saying that.

Hugh, I think your point about the global warming/orgone potential for misinfo is very valid, even tho I don't agree with what seems a bit of savage attitude on your part, but then I can be as savage as anyone too so thats not really that big a quibble. But also that bit about encouraging vandalism, I think thats in your head cos it didn't occur to me as anything remotely like agitating for vandalism.

There is a trend in the orgone movement and there is/was in the chemtrail community to use those ideas as a basis for the meme that global warming isn't happening or is a result simply of bearden style weather manipulation and a plot to spray the skies.

It is used sometimes to distract from the obvious reality of global warming.

But there is also a semi religious or spiritual side to that movement made up of people genuinely looking for answers. most with more than half a brain. Anbd there is something about that process that enables some people to become more at one with the land and Gaia, or Mum, that can only be good for the planet and its dependants.

"Fire burn away our uncertainties
Water wash away our impurities
Contradictions and predictions abound
Yet I believe we can turn this around."

Killing Joke - millenium (couldn't help it that song is on now)

Thats the other thing about the mud balls.

Atgni hotra means purification by fire, or words to that effect.

Its an ancient Hindu tradition and while hunduism is full of scams, its also got some tripped out potentials and processes. The context that the mudballs take place in is sacred to about a billion people, so if Dragon and BH and everyone else are staying true to that then I have no problem with their continuing to do so.

Its not like its some big secret. Two minutes on Google should give you twenty different sets of instructions to make them.

And iif you feel that you want to start slinging em around then you should probably make your own anyway.

[dragon]

You're right about that, Joe. Best way is to make your own. That's what I encourage people to do. They get the full benefit of the ceremony that way.

Getting back to Burnt Hill's experience, he's right there in a legendary hot spot for UFO activity. I've been following the UFO story for decades, and Hudson Valley is one of the early reporting sites.

What is likely is that there's an underground base there. They like to stash them under federal lands, sometimes under state or Indian lands. We in the orgone movement had been working to eliminate chemtrails from the beginning, and later on we tackled the mind control tower problem. In March of 2003, we, meaning me, opened a Second Front. That was when I discovered how to disable the underground bases. After that, we went on a search and destroy mission. Our biggest effort was done in the summer of '03, when one of our operatives drove 20,000 miles all over the western US, going from one underground base to another.

Look for a power supply for that big tower you are going to bust. Does it have a building with an engine room? Most do, but I've seen some with no apparent source of power. Power comes from equipment below the surface.

We can talk about underground bases, and how to deal with them, later. Dealing with them takes us to the edge of the wierd stuff I promised to talk about later. MaryK's posting background, historical, information on that.

Dragon

Z-Force Group. Arizona's Global Tyranny First Response Team.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

You're right about that, Joe.
....
What is likely is that there's an underground base there.
.....
That was when I discovered how to disable the underground bases.
.....
going from one underground base to another.

Look for a power supply for that big tower you are going to bust. Does it have a building with an engine room? Most do, but I've seen some with no apparent source of power. Power comes from equipment below the surface.
.....
We can talk about underground bases, and how to deal with them, later.
....
MaryK's posting background, historical, information on that.

Dragon

Z-Force Group. Arizona's Global Tyranny First Response Team.

Joe? Your comment?

[Et in Arcadia ego]

I am a bit puzzled by arcadia's trip too, but he did mod at ctc and that would have given him a very different view on some things. Maybe he has seen this or something v similar before and is sus on it cos he saw the consequences of it.

Thank you, Joe, you are 100% correct.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Joe? Your comment?

Look, I find it hard to take that stuff seriously. I am not saying there are no underground bases or anything. in fact I know there are underground US facilities that are highly sus in Australia. pine gap is one of them.

But at the same time I have my own worldvview. One that recognises the dreamtime, shadow time, the mythological or eternal world or whatever you want to call it. A world that is kind of orthagonal to the reality we seem to be in all the time.

i think that events like what Dragon describes, his battles with underground bases and the like, well if they are happening and he is not just making shit up, then its taking place in this dreamtime world, and that its a metaphorical process, or a mythological one. And to be honest I don't think he is just making shit up.

Ie just cos I don't think that there are real underground bases built by mole machines and tunnelborers with electricity from somewhere to light them and a mix of humans, reptillians and god knows what else all planning to control our minds that I can actually walk down to, sneak in the back and write smartarse grafitti in the bog.

But it might be there, just through that thin veil tween us and the next world, where its effects could possibly be as real as if it were a flesh and blood thing. In which case good on maryk, dragon, OI and anyone else doing it.

Its a damn good metaphor after all.

Dragon, you might think I am a condescending bastard for trying to warp your reality into my own world view BTW, and thats probably fair enough.

But thats my comment Hugh. I have seen way too much far out craziness for myself to be willing to just write off someone else's as crap.


There hows that for being non commital and sitting on the fence?

Cos also Dragon you said this:

You're right about that, Joe. Best way is to make your own. That's what I encourage people to do. They get the full benefit of the ceremony that way.

I find this interesting. Perhaps the whole point of charging people an arm and a leg for mudballs is to actually encourage them to get off their arse and do it for themselves? Is that right dragon?

In any case I find the whole Dragon and Mary and anyone else pushing those ideas, are working for Exxon theme rather dodgy.

Dragon I think you have a bit of a messiah complex, but frankly if you are doing stuff that benefits people and the world its far from my place to judge you on that, cos the consequences of your actions for the world and for others is what matters. And ultimately thats between you and the infinite, and between the rest of us here and that same infinite, for our own stuff ups and successes.

Pitcairn and I were talking about the whole mythology process and all the related weirdness on another thread just the other day.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Arcadia no wucken forries mate.

One thing I can say about this site, and life, is that I (mostly ) trust your judgement and definitely trust your integrity.

[dragon]

Well, Joe, just so you know, selling mud balls is a hard way to make a living. I sent 100 of them out today. I send all mud balls postpaid. Flat rate postage here in the states is $8.10, so that doesn't leave much of a "profit" margin.

Then when you factor in the time involved in making them, forming them one at a time, drying and packaging them, it's way below minimum wage. And I give away far more than I am able to sell. Some here make disparaging remarks, as if being paid to perform a service or provide a product was some sort of bad thing.

As for the "messiah complex", I don't think so. What I try to do, and was doing for years before I met Don Croft, is teach people methods of self-empowerment. For the truth is, if you don't run your life, then someone else will. I'm not interested in running anyone's life, mine is full enough, thank you. What does interest me, and I believe to be true and important to keep in mind, that I as a person am not really free until we are all free.

Underground bases are a reality. Look up Phil Schneider on the web. Richard Sauder has written books about underground and underwater bases. Somewhere I read that Columbus saw what we would call UFOs glide into the water near his ships.

I sure would like to be able to plant some of my Triniti Wands near that Alice Springs base.

Did take out the base under the Antarctic, but that was done remotely. Remote work is fine, but there's nothing like the satisfying tactile sensation of a well made weapon.......

Dragon

Z-Force Group. Arizona's Global Tyranny First Response Team.