History of the Orgonite/Cloudbuster Movement

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Postby orz » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:51 am

I love arguments where BOTH sides are wrong. :)

I don't believe this stuff is (all?) deliberate disinfo. I think it's more a symptom of the internet allowing a feeling of community and normality to develop amongst people who previously would have felt like isolated weirdos and would never be able to talk about their ideas.

As far as I can see the whole Orgonite/'gifting' fandom is no different structurally speaking than furries, adult diaper-wearing, vore, kirk/spock fiction, anime music video making, otherkin, * or any of the other totally weird micro-subcultures that have flourished online.

(* resists temptation to add 9/11 Truth Movement to the list :twisted: )
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:02 am

the thought occurs to me that controlling people thro a deliberate and layered "framing" of not only the thinking and discussion about sex, sexual energy, and "sex economy," but of available/provided sexual iconography is something both older, larger, and more diffuse than a mere device for trying to undermine or confuse public understanding of GW


Yeah i think that was a big part of Reich's thinking as well.

I think he went a bit further and hinted at structures for manipulating chi in that context as well. he thought soccer served that function, something that I kind of agree with being an australian rules football player and coach. Just for a local bush side, not professional, tho one of the kids I have coached actually has the potential to be among the greatest players ever. Whether he lives up to that or not is gonna be another matter.

In fact anyone who followed the way soccer fans in europe specifically england behaved before and after the rave moment would have no trouble seeing where Reich was coming from on that level.

I know HMKGrey is a soccer fan and has a more than a passing familiarity with the rave scene, and could probably give an accurate assessment of that idea if you catch up with him pitcairn.

Ekkies techno and rave parties probably helped almost end football violence and hooliganism in England, and it scared tptb, for that and other reasons. They responded with the criminal justice act of 94 I think, it basically banned techno and groups of people listening to music, at least in its draft forms, and caused outrage from all spectrums of english society, including many seemingly right wing conservative hobnob types.

Thats part of the reason I think Hugh is so way off in his assessment of orgone and its potentials, and the idea that it is a hoax.

Hugh, if you don't get why the rave movement of the early 90s was so significant I'll give you a quick run down if you want.

Then there's christianity. I went to a single sex Catholic School where my mother, the year twelve biology teacher and science co ordinator ran a sex ed program. She advocated condom use, in direction violation of orthodoxy at the start of the 80s primarily because she was concerned about this new thing called Aids. She knows alll about opus dei, and the committee to protect and preserve dogma, or whatever they are called. but I am not commenting on the blog at the moment as it seems to bring out the worst in me. Otherwise I could have added to those comments.

But yeahs hughs prolly right. orgone is just a hoax to distract from global warming.

I think chi or qi is very hard for science to deal with cos it describes relationships rather than structures or substances that can be quantified.

Yin and Yang is a central part of understanding it, I think, and again most people understand that in terms of male and female energy.

personally I think a better analogy is breathing, inhaling and exhaling, but the male female understanding fits. Its more an expression of yin and yang than the other way around tho, IMo of course. If you really want an authoritative opinion go find some spry old chinese guy ... :wink:

And yeah i always assumed that Reich was on about chi or qi, or one of the myriad other cultural expressions of the same concept. Something about European academics that they have to name things and then claim "ownership" of them, I dunno. But he do did some groundbreaking work on it anyway.

In answer to your last question(s)

Yes.

I think you are right on pitcairn. Disinfo isn't that powerful. It only works if you don't think about things carefully. if you do think about things carefully or have a bit of self discipline and trust yourself and have some connection to the whole "sacred life/in life" then its pretty powerless, thinking about things carefully is probably all you really need.
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Postby monster » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:05 am

orz wrote:As far as I can see the whole Orgonite/'gifting' fandom is no different structurally speaking than furries, adult diaper-wearing, vore, kirk/spock fiction, anime music video making, otherkin, * or any of the other totally weird micro-subcultures that have flourished online.


Oh man, that's an awesome list, I busted up over that. Especially furries.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:41 am

I missed your reply orz.

Most of my opinions on orgone were formed long before I came across the internet, and most of the formed through interactions with intelligent and remarkable people, but you make your own conclusions on whatever, its all good to me.

That quote monster put up tho, its pretty funny. :lol: :lol:

Personally I am really interested in some of the details of that particular subculture and the way they fit my personal delusions of the way the world works.

(In creepiest voice possible) Verrry Interesssted

I wondser how isolated you'd feel among the weirdo's at my local. :P
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Postby orz » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:01 am

Most of my opinions on orgone were formed long before I came across the internet, and most of the formed through interactions

Haha fair enough, yeah I'm sure many people interested in this stuff are perfectly intelligent etc despite my mocking post there :) but seriously the internet subculture side of it is interestingly analogous to other niche fandoms, from the viewpoint of an outsider at least...

But hey, we're all weirdos on the internet ^_^
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Postby Telexx » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:03 am

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Orgone doesn't exist.


HMW - Sorry, but only in your opinion.

In my opinion, this particular comment is as worthless as saying:

God doesn't exist.
Justice doesn't exists.
Love doesn't exist.

You can put none of these things into wheelbarrows - the existence of these things depends on the observer.

People perceive God, or Love, or Justice to exist only through a common consensus as to the meaning of these words.

Many people understand orgone to mean chi. Chi is thought to exist by anyone with even a passing understanding of: martial arts, yoga, Chinese medicine AND so-called 'new age' beliefs. That's many millions of people. Perhaps billions.

I do not agree with claims made regarding 'orgonite' and such - as Orz points out it's an exclusive scene...

However, regarding chi or prana or orgone - only a headstrong fool would write off the beliefs of millions upon millions of people without due investigation.

Thanks,

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Postby marykmusic » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:34 am

Interesting how folks have jumped on here to either prove or disprove their opinions.

I'm just telling a story. That means, the history of what happened from my personal point of view. --MaryK
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Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:31 pm

THE SUNS COMING OUT

YOUR SUNS COMING OUT


Image


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO8zr31R0c8

Image


I still dream of Organon.

I wake up crying.
Youre making rain,
And youre just in reach,
When you and sleep escape me.

Youre like my yo-yo
That glowed in the dark.
What made it special
Made it dangerous,
So I bury it
And forget.

But every time it rains,
Youre here in my head,
Like the sun coming out--
Ooh, I just know that something good is going to happen.
And I dont know when,
But just saying it could even make it happen.

On top of the world,
Looking over the edge,
You could see them coming.
You looked too small
In their big, black car,
To be a threat to the men in power.

I hid my yo-yo
In the garden.
I cant hide you
From the government.
Oh, god, daddy--
I wont forget,

cause every time it rains,
Youre here in my head,
Like the sun coming out--
Ooh, I just know that something good is going to happen.
And I dont know when,
But just saying it could even make it happen.

The suns coming out.
Your suns coming out.
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Flowers for Kate

Postby Avalon » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:46 pm

Uh, the first line is "I still dream of Organon," not Algernon.
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How very kind of you Avalon

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:55 pm

How very kind of you Avalon, to correct me in such a friendly manner. Sorry to have made such an error but then no one is perfect are they? Or are they?
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Postby marykmusic » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:59 pm

Organon was Wilhelm Reich's place in Maine. It's still there, but when the Feds picked him (just like the scene in the Kate Bush video) in '55 or '56, they destroyed his life's worrk. Reich is the only person who had his books burned by both the Nazis and the American government.

Reich's son was about eight years old, I believe. Everything else is fictional in that video, though. His machine didn't look like that, wasn't used on top of a hill... the big black car was no doubt an American-made sedan of the mid-fifties. And Wilhelm Reich, arrested for practicing medicine without a license, because of his orgone accumulator box that people sat inside, and it cured cancer, died in the Fed prison at Danbury, Connecticut, in 1957. They officially said it was a heart attack, but refused to let the widow have his body for an autopsy.

The other stuff Reich did could be written off as kooky, especially the part about your mental health depends on having good orgasms (the real reason he broke off his apprenticeship to Freud), but curing cancer will get you killed. Even today. --MaryK
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WHY?

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:12 pm

Why is it not possible to enjoy something for what it is, a really pretty video and nice lyrics, music. Does there have to be fault with everything in this world, everything?
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Postby marykmusic » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:15 pm

Oh, it most certainly is a lovely video, and I enjoyed it when I found it on YouTube about a year ago.

It's a nice story, and it has probably prompted many people into looking further, but it isn't exactly history. I am a cultural historian by nature and by training. But I'm a storyteller as well.

Who said, "I never let the facts get in the way of a good story"? It wasn't me. I'm quite concerned that the facts be told, within the format of a good story. --MaryK
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Postby darkbeforedawn » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 pm

Ha HA HA HA HA . THIS STUFF IS A JOKE. YOU GUYS MUST BE OFF YOUR MEDS.
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uh...

Postby Avalon » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:10 pm

How very kind of you Avalon, to correct me in such a friendly manner. Sorry to have made such an error but then no one is perfect are they? Or are they?

I made a simple statement of fact correcting your mistake, sorry if you read more than that in it.

The "uh" was out of confusion that you might be taking the time and trouble to write out the full lyrics yet missed the Organon reference. Or that you'd quote someone else's transcription of the lyrics in this context, but miss that they got the word wrong.
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