History of the Orgonite/Cloudbuster Movement

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Postby dbeach » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:25 pm

DBD
It does depend on Your definiton of the word Off
or meds

is worked for bubba
"depends on you definition of the word is.."

I do enjoy my daily herbal supplements..AHEM
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homonym

Postby Avalon » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:58 pm

Here's an interview with Kate that discusses "Cloudbusting." FWIW, at least one of the lines is "Your son's coming out," -- I can't verify the other for sure, since there's too much stuff piled in front of my Kate Bush albums at the moment.

Went to the Wayback machine to check on gaffa.org, seems they folded in 2005?
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Postby darkbeforedawn » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:58 pm

yah your right dbeach. Maybe they over "medicated" themselves??
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Postby Horatio Hellpop » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:16 pm

Hi Everybody!

A couple of writers I respect seemed to have time for Reich and orgone.

Burroughs would often spend time in an orgone box and R A Wilson seemed to think that the chronic sinus he had experienced for years was cured immediately after treatment with an orgone gun (whatever that may be).

I personally have never conducted any orgone experiments so I really can't comment (but I suspect that none of the naysayers in this thread have either). I'd expect that kind of attitude at an Amazing Randi message board, but not here.
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The Doppler Effect........

Postby dragon » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:11 pm

In order to better understand the effect of the Sally Water, we have to go back in time a bit to November, 2002. At that time we had working with us one of the bravest men I have ever met, code named M-2. He was based in San Diego.

We were all aware of the existence of an underground base at Yuma Proving Grounds. We were also aware that there was a tunnel leading from there to an opening in the Gulf of California. M-2's plan was to build a humungous Holy Hand Grenade and take it into the Gulf and drop it near the opening. He had a name for it. He called it Puncho Villa.

Actually, there were two of them. I made a very large one that weighed several pounds. His was even larger, and we put everything we could think of in each one of them.

His adventure out to that point in the water was written up on the forum, and is quite a tale. We don't have space for it here.

With luck, or maybe Divine guidance, he found the opening and dropped the HHGs on site. The effect was instantaneous, and quite remarkable. We had been monitoring the doppler radar for DOR activity and other things as a regular part of our daily routine. When he dropped those units in the water, the doppler radar in Yuma lit up like a bright light.

The radar returns are color coded for intensity, with white being the next to the top and purple being the most intense. The radar return showed a patch of white that went all the way from the Gulf of California to Yuma and then east all the way to Casa Grande and Florence, and it finally faded out before it got to the other side of the state. A branch of white line went almost to Tucson.

It was a major, major hit on that base. Took days for the radar return to go back to normal. I returned to the Yuma underground base in March the following year with more advanced equipment. We'll get to that later.

Eventually, the base got itself back into operation. The Navy went out and retrieved the Holy Hand Grenades. All this is by way of illustrating the way we were using doppler radar back in those days. No one was naive enough to believe everything that came across the screen. It was just one more helpful tool, and we needed all the tools and information we could get.

It was also useful for locating underground bases, and sometimes the presence of alien ships.

O.K. Now we can resume our narrative, the history of the cloudbuster movement. MaryK and the boys were at Sally's place, and Sally poured some charged water into a creek near her house. The creek is a tributary of the Mississippi. The water, as you remember, is self-replicating. So each charged molecule passed the charge along to uncharged molecules it encountered along the way.

The effect was similar to the oft-told story of lighting a room full of candles from one single flame. They told me what they had done, and I watched the doppler returns to see what would happen.

Doppler returns over populated areas were normally yellow and red, showing varying degrees of saturation and spread of negative energy. Blues and greens, those were the quiet ones. White was not uncommon when the towers were really pumping out the juice.

Most every city along the Mississippi gets its water from the river. So as the charged water flowed down the river, the public service water companies would pick it up and circulate it through the pipes. The city would then be sitting on top of a bed of orgone energy. The water system would be an orgone emission, orgone carrier system. This had the effect of neutralizing the towers.

I watched the doppler and saw city after city go from intense red and yellow returns to calm blue and green. The charge followed the river and went into the Gulf of Mexico. I watched as it spread in both directions along the coast. Soon after Sally poured the water into the creek, someone else charged one of the Great Lakes, I forget which one. The radars began changing up north, too.

The charge spread down the coast of Louisiana and Texas, and then upstream to the interior. Somehow, it got all the way to Wyoming. As the charge made its way inward, the dopplers in the affected areas were all showing blue. There were no reds, no yellows or purples or whites anywhere.

Someone else put charged water into the Pacific Ocean. That hastened the spread inland and out to sea. Out to sea, we lost track of it after it passed Guam. There were no more dopplers we had access to after that.

The charge flowed from the Great Lakes to the Atlantic coast. At some point the charge that originated in the Great Lakes met the charge that came out of the mouth of the Mississippi. In a matter of days, all the radars in the United States were showing blue. Nothing but blue.

And then they all shut down. Every doppler radar in the US went down. I don't remember how long they stayed off line, but things were back to more or less normal when they did return. We never trusted a doppler return after that date. There's a high probability that they are not accurate now.

Now, here's where the skeptics and hoot-down artists will come unfastened. Two things:

There was a SARS 'epidemic' scare going on at the time. Toronto had already been under some sort of quarantine. Getting into the USA with even a runny nose made you run the risk of quarantine. The forces of darkness were getting ready to do their martial law thing.

Soon after the water reached Toronto, the SARS epidemic quarantine was lifted. A few days after the Guam doppler went blue, we knew that the charge had reached Asia, because fewer and fewer cases of SARS were being reported.

Now, did the Sally Water stop the epidemic? Circumstantial evidence is all we have. You can believe or not, your choice. I'm simply reporting events as they happened.

The Sally Water is unique stuff, and it came along just in time to prevent martial law on a grand scale. Not just from SARS, but in other ways. We'll discuss those other ways in the next installment.

Dragon


Z-Force Group. Arizona's Global Tyranny First Response Team.
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Opening A Second Front....

Postby dragon » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:14 pm

In March of 2003, I took a PowerWand to the other side of Yuma and buried it in the sand on top of that tunnel from the underground base. The experience with the HHGs had made me aware that the bases were vulnerable. The PowerWand is battery powered, so I hooked up several nine volt batteries in parallel, enough to power the unit for a couple of weeks until I could return.

The doppler returns indicated that the base had been hit, and our psychic friend confirmed it. I was elated. We had found something that would work against these underground bases. We declared that we had opened a Second Front in the war against the dark side.

When the Sally Water appeared, I began to experiment with various devices that incorporated Sally Water. One of the prototypes went with MaryK and our friend to Area 51. I'll let her tell you the story of that adventure. First time ever that anyone has attacked Area 51.

Further experimentation with Sally Water and orgone led to the development of the Triniti Wand as a specific for underground bases. It contained Sally Water and orgone, and was powered by ambient electricity. It is still in use today. These are dropped in the water or buried on the site. Devastatingly effective.

We now return you to your regular historian.

Dragon

Z-Force Group. Arizona's Global Tyranny First Response Team.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:19 pm

Haha fair enough, yeah I'm sure many people interested in this stuff are perfectly intelligent etc despite my mocking post there but seriously the internet subculture side of it is interestingly analogous to other niche fandoms, from the viewpoint of an outsider at least...

But hey, we're all weirdos on the internet ^_^


I agree with that completely. Its all good. I am a complete weirdo, and if people took the far out ideas I have on face value without some critical thinking I would not have much time or respect for them (at least I'd hope so). Its always questioning things that led me to the conclusions I draw about stuff, and hopefully those conclusions are always subject to change based on evidence and thought.

Interesting how folks have jumped on here to either prove or disprove their opinions.

I'm just telling a story. That means, the history of what happened from my personal point of view. --MaryK


Yeah sorry if I am doing that to you.

I am enjoying your story and am glad you are telling it. Please keep it up.

darkbeforedawn Posted: 06 Jan 2007 17:57 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ha HA HA HA HA . THIS STUFF IS A JOKE. YOU GUYS MUST BE OFF YOUR MEDS.


Thats rich coming from someone who can't even see the obvious problems with their own personal belief systems.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:21 pm

The other stuff Reich did could be written off as kooky, especially the part about your mental health depends on having good orgasms (the real reason he broke off his apprenticeship to Freud),


but mary how is this kooky? by what possible definition?

That is probably one of the sanest, most sensible things I have ever heard.
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'Orgone and ether' = fiction.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:36 pm

Horatio Hellpop wrote:Hi Everybody!

A couple of writers I respect seemed to have time for Reich and orgone.


Atleast a couple of writers I respect get some things terribly wrong. Heck, I do, too.

Consider that hypnotism is a real phenomenon but was for years thought to be things which it is not, explanations were attempted which were wrong.

You know how fundamentalists read words as literal instead of figurative?
Same deal with 'orgone.'

Everything Reich got wrong is being saved while what he got right is being suppressed.
Societies where physical touch is more common and acceptable are less violent.
Sexual repression does beget conflict and violence.
But still there's no such thing as 'orgone' as if this socio-emotional dynamic could be bottled or broadcast like some kind of fountain of youth element.

'Orgone' is similar to 'karma' but with nothing actually there except the nice fuzzy metaphor of 'good vibes' mutated for disinfo purposes into 'magical frequencies' as if you could broadcast them like microwaves when the content on the broadcasted waves is the main active ingredient.

The recent study of the harmful effects of cellphones on heads and electro-smog and EMF on bodies is not voodoo. There's real science involved but not the way the 'orgone-ites' portray it.

They are diverting towards a literalism which is false and so the building of machines called 'orgone accumulators' to 'fight negative vibes' is a scam.

What Wilhelm DID get right and was the reason the US government suppressed ALL his work was his expose on the social attributes of FASCISM which the US government was trying to build into American culture as sort of an Americanized version of Mein Kampf with emphasis on social cohesion and war mentality resulting from the 'Make War Not Love' authoritarian personality.

So by diverting Reich's identity to 'the orgone guy' his valid work on the sociology of fascism is displaced, he's discredited, and a whole new generation of internet readers get tangled up in the debris from Reich's failed effort to find a 'magic bullet' version of good vibes or the loving human spirit.

It ain't in a pill, baby.

Then this tangle is tied onto burgeoning awareness of Senate Bill 517's budget for cloud-seeding to make rain and cloud cover to counter global warming issues, a tangle meant to slow down awareness of the issues involved to preserve social stability, something governments consider must be maintained at all costs and no matter what lies are 'necessary.'

Look around at all the 'orgone' websites and see what I'm talking about.

http://www.orgone.org/forums/pubfrmorac99.htm

Cloud-seeding is whipped up into a number of disinformaton stories.
'Orgone' is just one of them. Another is 'etheric rain engineering.' As in, yes, ether.'


Here's a website that purports to sell 'etheric rain engineering' but there is no such thing. Read for yourself and see if you can find anything real about 'ERE.'-

http://www.rainengineering.com/
ETHERIC RAIN ENGINEERING
OPERATIONS SUMMARY


Over a developmental period exceeding 30 years, etheric rain engineering has been utilized in numerous successful operations. Beginning with ponderous, fixed-base operations employing arrays of up to 150 water-grounded tubes, this art and science has continuously evolved. Advances have been both technical and theoretical. By the year 2002, the huge, static, water-grounded arrays have been replaced by a single, hollow tube of sensitive construction. These tubes are carried aboard helicopters or light aircraft, and do not employ chemicals, electric power, or electromagnetic radiation in any form. From inception until today, action has depended on tapping the latent, native power of the etheric continuum.

Effort has not been expended in reconciling this new technology with scientific conceptions and theories that exclude, a priori, the existence of the ether. On the contrary, every effort was made to keep this work independent from classical theories and notions already obsoleted by the practical results that have been obtained over the past three decades. Instead of seeking the approval and sanction of formal scientific sources, objective physical results were allowed to guide and discipline development. This unorthodox approach ruled out any drifting to mysticism. ONLY RESULTS COUNT is the motto that ruled.


Here's an anonymous article that purports to warn about disinfo on chemtrails and is disinfo itself!

The truth is declared false and vise--versa. Typical disinfo.

It declares that cloudseeding never worked in the 1950s (WRONG) but fictional 'orgone' and fictional 'etheric rain engineering' always does. This is Orwellian gibberish-

http://www.rense.com/general37/info.htm
Waking Up To Chemtrail
Disinformation Techniques
Educate-Yourself.org
5-12-3

Editor's Note: This e-mail is an anonymous response to another recent article sent out by Mark Davey which highlighted the current hodgepodge of chemtrail disinfo gambits. The most cunning disinfo is disseminated by a fellow (whose father was career military and seems to exhibit that slightly skewed, peculiar behavior you tend to see with mind controlled people) with a chemtrails 'information' web site who has been pushing a very lenghty "Chemtrails Report" for a couple of years that wants you to arrive at the conclusion that Edward Teller is trying to save us all with sun screens and radar protection from those nasty terrorists (whoever thay might be). I'll post the earlier article this response refers to in short order. I can't argue with the opinions expressed by this writer concerning chemtrails except to remark that 'seeding clouds' generally produced little or no real results in the 1950's when trying to produce rain. Trevor Constable's Etheric Rain Engineering or Wilhelm Reich's version of cloudbusting, however, works in almost every case-even with desert conditions. You should also read the latest article I've posted from Montalk to get a clearer picture of the reasons behind chemtrail sprayings. -- Ken Adachi

Anonymous
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/wakingup ... ay03.shtml
May 9, 2003

This was sent from a new friend in response to the 'sunscreen' article:

Sorry to have to write you in this fashion, but I can no longer sit and watch the amazing display of stupidity demonstrated by the so-called fringe media and various internet sites that purport to "get to the bottom" of this chemtrail business. Let's get to the point.

First, notice how every so many months, here comes yet another "insider" email about how these chemtrails are just cloud cover to protect the planet or some other idiot view like "increased jet traffic along unused air corridors." We laugh at how many radio shows run this dribble with such frequency that we now wonder why they too, exhibit either complete idiocy or, are in fact, part of the disinformation campaign being waged to keep the world's population looking the other way.

Common sense is the key here, no matter what is postulated. Use your brains. Think things through. Let some clarity and rationality come into the picture.

Disinfo strategy Numero Uno: Cloud Cover to protect us from those evil sunrays, caused by us selfish, gas-guzzling citizens.

First, notice how most folks who use this disinfo strategy always condemn the consumer as being the bad guy-who uses way too much energy for our oor
planet-then these agents point out that chemtrails are, in fact, doing us a favor by creating cloud cover to protect these same people from their own greed. The problem with this ongoing disinfo strategy is that everybody knows free energy has been around since the 1920s and it is corporate America who keeps us dependent upon oil, not ourselves. How convenient to make us the scapegoats for real problems (global warming, ozone depletion, etc.,) then the big LIE which is they are doing us some favor to relieve the problem. Notice the current Ed Teller scenario being played out right now. This new strategy is keeping real researchers from looking into the smoking gun: biologicals.

Second, Cloud seeding has been around, and used successfully, since the 1950s, with no adverse effects. USAF studies during that time were proudly published in most relevant media of the day and laboratory results were always available to anyone who was interested. Why? Because real cloud seeding is actually harmless. They can make all the clouds they want which have NO BIOLOGICALS in them. The simple truth here is that if making clouds were the reason, they would happily own up to it.

The reason for the secrecy now is for the following reasons:

1. Barium waste products are part of the "soup."
2. Desiccated red blood cells with no hemoglobin are present in ground and air samples. These blood cells contain pathogens that act like the good old
sleeper agents. These are binary weapons systems being deployed on a global level.
3. People are dying in large numbers. Talk to medical professionals. They tell the real story here and it is not a pretty one.
4. Malathion is part of the soup.
5. Dioxin is part of the soup.
6. Aluminum is part of the soup.
7. Much of the chemtrails are being done right into existing clouds on rainy days to insure that the mix will get into your water supply. The key here is
the barometer. When humidity exceeds 30%, they start spraying. Pay attention.
8. There is a coup-de-tat taking place and it started with the Bush administration.

You will find the following disinformation strategies deployed against researchers:

* Cloud cover. Protection against the sun's rays.

* Chemtrails simply don't exist. You are imagining the whole thing.

* What deaths? Prove them. Don't rely on the CDC, they are part of the op and are in fact, lackey's for the Pentagon, as everyone here in DC knows.

* Your samples are flawed. You didn't analyze your petri dish correctly.

* A radar shield. This, by far, is the most stupid one advanced. You would be surprised how many people want to believe this.

* What sicknesses? Prove them.

That leaves some very few answers. Answers that most people would rather not consider. Let's see who gets the answer right. I'll send another email in a
week.

Please keep my name anonymous

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/wakingup ... ay03.shtml
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Too funny. Before cloud-seeding, 'rainmakers.'

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:18 am

While 'orgone-ites' are claiming that cloud-seeding chemtrails are causing draught and they are saving us with their 'orgone accumulators' by causing rain, I now see that this old story of a 1904 'rainmaker' named is being revived.

The 'etherical rain-engineering' website tells of the "famous rainmaker named Charles Mallory Hatfield who flooded San Diego in 1914."

lol. Yeah, right. Lots of "rainmaking" at the time for the right price. After WWII it became a common task and was used in an attempt to wash out the Ho Chi Minh supply route during the Vietnam War.

But not at the turn of the 20th century with 'rainmakers' trying explosions to set off rain or pools of liquids to evaporate upwards into the atmosphere. All bunk.

Here's an account of Charles Mallory Hatfield's alleged rainmaking at a San Diego historical site--
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journal/70winter/hatfield.htm

Up to March 1 it was an extremely dry season at most points in Southern California. Charley, at Hemet, February 21, in negotiation with Rawson, called to mind the great moistening of Los Angeles in 1904-05.

"Will you guarantee to produce rain?" asked the Hemet News reporter, to which Charley replied, "I certainly will, or it won't cost the people a cent."

He had prepared a draft contract, the heading of which put squarely the impression he wanted to convey: "Four Inches of Rain for Four Thousand Dol­lars. No Rain, No Pay." In it he agreed to set up a "rain precipitation and at­traction plant" and to operate it from March 1 to May 1. For each inch of rain falling during that time he was to receive $1,000, up to four inches. There would be no pay for any additional amount. Three gauges, one in Menifee Valley, one near San Jacinto and the third at the Hatfield tower were to govern the payoff. Signers were obtained to underwrite the $4,000.

Charley returned to Hemet March 1. A. K. Whidden, county bee inspector, chanced to meet him in a lumberyard. It was already raining, a circumstance that scoffers assumed would be em­barrassing to a rainmaker who hadn't yet started working.

"I wish I was out under this with my apparatus," Charley said, and Whidden asked, "What could you do?" Charley answered, "You may get three inches from this storm. I could give you three and a half." This was Whidden's recol­lection, in which he said he might not be exactly right as to the figures but was sure of the substance of the re­marks. Whidden was a doubter, recalling that Charley "could talk more and say less than anyone I had ever known."
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:23 am

Hugh what part of orgone is chi don't you understand?

The whole point of the 90s rave movement was that a culture that unblocked its collective chi turned from one of violent inter clan rivalry to one that celebrated art dance and independance from social control mechanisms that have existed for centuries. the took advantage of new technologies to build worldwide networks and created a universal worldwide brother and sisterhood of people.

One that was so powerful all it took was a few "do you remember this and thats?" between myself and HMKGrey to build an instant rapport.

Cos we were part of that same worldwide non dogmatic spontaneous movement of human liberation.

Shit there must be heaps of old ravers on this site who get where I am coming from.

Now that in itself is no proof of chi, but if you were there, dancing with humanity in a place outside time and space you would know exactly what I mean I suppose.

But to me it illustrates reichs point about orgone and its effect on human society perfectly.

Consider that hypnotism is a real phenomenon but was for years thought to be things which it is not, explanations were attempted which were wrong.


Perhaps you should think of orgone in this context.

'Orgone' is similar to 'karma' but with nothing actually there except the nice fuzzy metaphor of 'good vibes' mutated for disinfo purposes into 'magical frequencies' as if you could broadcast them like microwaves when the content on the broadcasted waves is the main active ingredient.


That comment about karma borders on racistly offensive to me.

Karma is an Indian concept that holds as its most important tenet the idea that all actions have consequences, forseen and unforseen, and that consideration of these consequences should always inform our actions.

Go ask someone who speaks Hindi what it means its a Hindi word after all.

People who "own" a language should have the right to determine the meanings of the words in their language, shouldn't they?

The recent study of the harmful effects of cellphones on heads and electro-smog and EMF on bodies is not voodoo. There's real science involved but not the way the 'orgone-ites' portray it.


Thats a very good point. But you are such a rationalist word fascist sometimes :P that for you everything must be literally true when people speak it. Consider that people with non scientific, metaphorical minds might try to explain the same reality using this orgonite concept, especially if they have had some experience that may prejudice them against scientific rationalism. (Sorry if that sounded harsh I still love you.)

So by diverting Reich's identity to 'the orgone guy' his valid work on the sociology of fascism is displaced, he's discredited, and a whole new generation of internet readers get tangled up in the debris from Reich's failed effort to find a 'magic bullet' version of good vibes or the loving human spirit.


If you think this you don't really understand reich or what he was trying to say. orgone is indispensable from the sociology of fascism, precisely because of human body "energy". It is repression which causes muscular armouring. this is analagous to a chi blockage, something tcm parctitioners can take to an incredible level of uhnderstanding.

I know this stuff works because it precisely the physical nature of it that I rely on. I play a full contact sport (no protective equipment at all either), that places enormous demands on the human body, and I can tell you from my own experience that chi is real and an understanding of it enables quicker recovery and lessens the damage suffered in a game. I have even hurt myself testing this idea. Now thats not scientific proof oh well.

It still works.

Here's a website that purports to sell 'etheric rain engineering' but there is no such thing. Read for yourself and see if you can find anything real about 'ERE.'-


So you probably think I am full of shit when I talk about blackfellas and their ability to "sing" the rain, as well.

oh well thats ok. The world is full of neo colonialist world views and thats just one of them. My mum feels similar, but she's wrong and she is a VERY smart lady.

However hugh I think you are probably right to keep bringing this stuff up. I can handle criticism of my worldview cos I'm not that wedded to it. Ultimately it comes back to what works for me. I have been questioning and testing my own ideas on this since I was first exposed to these ideas.

BTW There is more to chemtrails than "just" cloud seeding.

But I am soooo way over chemtrails.
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Meanwhile, back at the topic...

Postby marykmusic » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:30 am

What exactly is charged water?

Dr. Emoto, “Messages in Water,” did a lot of experimentation of how the molecular structure of water could change according to what words the water was exposed to. His work was featured in What the Bleep but he did much more work than the movie had time to show. Words were used both written and chanted, and then the water droplets were photographed at the moment of crystallization when its temperature was dropped to freezing. The wide variety of crystals that formed indicated changes on the molecular level.

The water from Henry Dorst, in Vancouver BC that we’d had before, was from a sacred spring, said to have angels in attendance. ‘Way back through history, many cultures have held certain water sources to be more “special” than others, and often these were in spots where energy (ley) lines intersected. Lourdes is a modern-day example; its history as a place for miraculous healings was known when it was a sacred spring in Celtic Gaul.

Sally, on the other hand, didn’t have a sacred spring or even a water source at her house. It was just a nice old place, a few acres in a small town in Wisconsin. And she was a former truck driver.

How did Sally get to the point where water and crystals could be charged in her yard? What was so special?

As soon as we got home from her house and started posting about Sally and her “Medicine Wheel”, the controversy started. Here are some posts that I saved from the Cloud-buster forum we were all on.

Sally's 'Medicine Wheel' explained

Post# 29307 05/11/03 Captain_Dragon_Farstar

"...The Medicine Wheel from whence the Miracle Water came is NOT man-made. This one is formless. There is nothing there to delineate the form and boundaries of the Wheel. It sits in the Caretaker's yard with a tree in the center of the area. And a vortex above it. This one was brought here by a Spirit who identifies herself as Sophie. The Caretaker did not construct the Wheel. It was brought here from its previous location in another state. The history is a little foggy in my mind, but I believe that the Wheel is originally a Druid one that came from an area around Avalon. Yeah, THAT Avalon..."



Post# 29735 05/15/03 MaryKCroft

"There are a number of misconceptions concerning Medicine Wheels, and not just in this thread.

The place my boys and I visited, and then Dragonlady, was called a "Medicine Wheel" by its' Caretaker, but it is not a circle of rocks, nor is it a wheel. It IS a power spot. Perhaps a vortex is a better name for it. And she didn't "ask" for it, but it was a gift to her, and to the planet. Last year, it wasn't there. Now it is. Go figure. There are definately entities in attendance.

Archeologists are only recently giving credit to the users of the numerous Medicine Wheels that are found in many placed. The Serpent Mounds in Ohio and Illinois, the mounds in Alabama (I worked on one of those excavations in the late '70's), the observation platforms at Chaco Canyon and Mesa Verde, to name a few; these have recently been given a much higher status. They are similar to Stonehenge and other much better-known sites, and deal with equinoxes, solstices, star risings, moon changes. Amazing places.

What archeologists DON'T know, and may never be given access to, is how much "medicine" is involved. Now, to Caucasian ears, this word means healing of some sort. But there is more. Much more.

This is about the soul. More than just the body. About the personality, and how to get along with the other members of the tribe. About health in physical, psychological, spirituality. About walking lightly on Mother Earth. About Dr. Schweitzer's concept of "reverence for life." He didn't invent that, but he was definately hooked into it. Africa was where he worked but this information is available to all cultures... IF one wants to find it.

The Medicine Wheel which got this discussion started is an incredibly powerful place. I hope the Caretaker offers her charged water for sale, as was the original plan. It's VERY special.

--MaryK

"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --Mark Twain"



Post# 35357 07/08/03 Steller2 (Sally)

"Al,
What you said about the water is correct. Even though your Wheel water is maybe 3 months old, it is still connected with the original source. Since that time, the Wheel has changed and grown in intensity. So that explains why the water you have now is stronger.
Sal"



Post# 35879 07/13/03 Steller2 (Sally)

"Steven,
When you start talking about the Wheel and the energies contained there, then the problems seem to start. The energies generated there come from God, Creator, or as some call Goddess. I've already had a few on the forum question my beliefs in God already. I realize this may be hard for some to comprehend, but to those who DON'T believe maybe they can explain to me why this CAN'T be possible. Is there Pagan ceremonies done within the Wheel? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Is there prayer, YES! With all of the unseen forces that we as humans battle on a daily basis, disease, negativity etc. is it so hard to believe we could be given something to help combat this? It all boils down to what we CHOOSE to believe in.

Sal


Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the
ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in
your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
Mark Twain"


Here’s my simplistic, layman’s explanation of how the charged water replicated itself. A charged molecule is more “excited” than a typical water molecule, just like what Dr. Emoto showed. It moves faster, farther. As it moves, it bumps into uncharged molecules and raises their frequencies, so that they are now charged, as well. By pouring charged water into the Mississippi River, the charge was spread both up- and downstream. And as those molecules evaporate into the air, they retain their excited nature, their higher frequency, and eventually come down as charged-water rain.

Whew! This Changes Everything!

One of Dragon’s earliest experiments with Sally Water was to load up one of the boys’ waterguns, a Super Soaker that could shoot a stream 50’ or so. He drove next to the fence of a tower near where we lived, and aimed the water at one of the tower’s legs, nowhere near the heavy cables. Just the leg. The generator in the building shut down! Instant gratification, quick confirmation.

But Don Croft nutted out with all this water talk. He presented an ultimatum: people could choose to stay in his circle, without talking about charged water, or they could be… shunned.

In June Dragon and I got married. Once on the 8th, then again on the 9th. (The judge stood us up the first time; she got sick and couldn’t contact us because we didn’t have a cellphone.) Don sent me a fabulous electric guitar as a wedding present, then said he never wanted to talk to me again. I love the guitar, a Malden Holly Keyser.

Don had traded something to the guitar maker for this one. First thing Dragon asked me was, "Can you play 'Wabash Cannonball?'" I could.

But I miss my brother. I haven’t spoken to him since, and he tells people that Dragon and I are evil.

Meanwhile, we keep on doing what we do. --MaryK


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http://www.zforcegroup.com

"You cannot wifstand my supewiew intewect." --Tweety Bird
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Postby pitcairn » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:55 am

wow Hugh

I know you're a man on a mission, but slow down a sec, and let the word "qi" sink in; forget orgone for a minute, and just think"qi"

now are you saying that qi is as bogus as orgone?

cos if it's not, then orgone isn't bogus, either, you just object to the name and the theories that have grown up around reich's work

there's something kind of breathless about many of your posts, hugh, and in the headlong rush to establish your beachhead of rationalism on the shores of perceived madness, you seem to fall into two habits:

you aggregate things that others in the conversation have already clearly and appropriately disaggregated, and you continue not to address questions on the separate and disparate issues;

and, you sort of get narrowly and madly devoted to your rationalism: there are irrational elements and functions in the known universe, rational analysis is a wonderful tool, but it's not the only tool in the box, and it's no Leatherman

I'd have to agree there is a strain of neo-colonialist condescension and blindness running thro a lot of your writing

but that's ok

if you spit straight up, you'll get spit in your eye
Everything in nature has a power in it.
-Thomas Banyacya
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Postby pitcairn » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:06 am

joe,

I was never a raver, but from what you say isn't it really a modern form of ecstatic dance?

ecstasy must be important and potentially dangerous, otherwise no one would give a fig about it

but they do

"they" care very, very much

I once was invited to a sufi dance (not the dervish kind) and at the end you could smell the most intense fragrance of roses and some other floral scent ... that was "confirmation" of an harmonious connnexion with the divine having been made and accepted, so the leader told us

unforgettable
Everything in nature has a power in it.
-Thomas Banyacya
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aargh.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:17 am

Joe, Pitcairn. Answer this for me please.

Are there people manufacturing and selling-
>karma machines?
>chi machines?
>qi machines?
---as if these things could come out of a bloody air-conditioner or a hose? NO.

You are in your own minds morphing 'orgone' into OTHER THINGS you accept and then say "oh, what they really mean by 'orgone' is ....."

No, they don't. 'Orgone' promoters are saying it is a literal physical thing which can be addressed by a machine.

Can't you see that? A MACHINE??!! Please focus here on the 'orgone' and DON'T see it as a metaphor for things you like or accept. You aren't even looking at it directly. You're looking at it through the filters of your OWN meanings!

Right?
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
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