"Horror Fans" for Dummies

[Et in Arcadia ego]

In the hopes of getting another thread back on topic, I decided to make this one in the hopes that others might make a contribution as to why they enjoy them and why enjoying them doesn't by default make them depraved sickos themselves like is assumed by other members here.<br><br>I'll be posting my own reasons as they've been repeatedly demanded elsewhere, but it's going to take some time to provide a detailed personal breakdown, so maybe you guys want to start without me.<br><br>Discuss. <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>

[FourthBase]

OK, fine, at least your hypersensitive pissiness about this issue led to a new thread. I'll repost my comments and the relevant responses.<br><br>Me:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I've always found even the tamest of horror films to be traumatizing. Even most television drama is traumatizing to an extent. Violent. All the time. Always death. Murder. Rape. Etc. Yes, the ante's been raised, it's been raised a little every year. But I've been sensitive to the deluge of violence, terror, grief on TV and in movies my entire 30 years on earth. The 70's, 80's, 90's...not that much tamer.<br><br>It disturbs me that anyone can actually be a "horror movie fan". You like watching people being terrorized and sliced apart? I mean, isn't that what it basically is? On a short bio, perhaps a personal ad, next to your "likes"...would you write "watching people being terrorized and sliced apart"?<br><br>King Kong was a fucking revelation about how mentally deranged our culture is. A mainstream blockbuster with some of the most horrific shit I've ever seen. I mean, those anus-looking worm-creatures with razor teeth? Yeah. 2/3 of the movie was a brutal, repetitive creepshow. And I felt this sense that the movie was trying to reach a primal part of our consciousness, in order to traumatize the holy shit out of it. The beginning atmosphere with Naomi Watts reminded me of Mulholland Drive, the same deluded sense of doom. The whole movie was psychotic.<br><br>And that's what I'm saying. Pop culture is conditioning us to think of psychotic shit like that as ordinary. Horror movie fans (sorry et) have been abusing their consciousnesses for years. But nowadays, pretty much everyone who goes to the movies and watches TV is a horror fan. (edit: without realizing it)<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>streeb wrote:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Fourth Base - I understand your visceral reaction to the very idea of 'horror fans', because I've encountered it all my life, but I think you have to remember it's about a great deal more than slicing people up. I suspect many of the readers here are Lovecraft fans, for one thing. The more I think about it these days, the more I'm convinced he's one of the towering figures of our time! Horror makes things manifest that would quite likely damage us if we didn't contemplate them. But it's not for everybody.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>Actually, here's Jerky, too:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I, too, am a lifelong "Horror Fan". Furthermore, seeing as some of the greatest artistic minds of all time were fascinated by the topic (Blake, Poe, Shakespeare, Sophocles, etc), I feel absolutely no pressure to defend my interest in the genre, beyond pointing out that it was the heavyhanded censorship of horror films in the 1980s that made me aware of the Heavy Hand in the first place, with the PMRC coming in a distant second.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>Me again:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I understand that way of thinking, streeb, but written horror and implied off-screen horror is a different animal than graphic on-screen simulation of gore and mutilation.<br><br>Also, I now tend to disagree with the assumption that if we don't contemplate certain evils then those evils will fester unconsciously, etc. I used to agree with Milton's argument in Areopagitica about virtue that avoids exposure to evil being inauthentic and powerless...but more and more I feel that the act of avoiding exposure to evil is a lost, important art -- especially as representations of evil continue to flood the media. Sometimes it's just best not to contemplate things for too long, and some things not at all.<br><br>e.g., Texas Chainsaw Massacre: why do we the public need to see that re-enacted? Think of the cops who must've stumbled into the remains at that crime scene. Cops and soldiers are permanently scarred by just seeing the aftermath of shit like that. And yet, here's a full-scale re-enactment, placing the audience at the scene as if they're there as it all happens. Can anyone who's seen TCM ever forget the horror? It's as if they experienced it first-hand, and that's both a testament to the power of film and a testament to how psychotic this culture is. No one should want to experience a simulation of horror. Unless they're masochistic and enjoy inviting PTSD on themselves...or sadistic and enjoy seeing people being mutilated and murdered. Is there something I'm missing in that regard?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Et in Arcadia ego]

For fourthbase:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://groovyageofhorror.blogspot.com/2006/05/few-horror-myths.html">groovyageofhorror.blogspo...myths.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>

[yesferatu]

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.thehotspotonline.com/moviespot/bolly/reviews/xyz/zindalaash.htm">Paki Drac</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>

[yesferatu]

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://home.btconnect.com/boumproductions/pages/index.html">mondo macabro</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>They distribute "The Devil's Sword" and I got it from Netflix. I rented it to give it an MST3K treatment for mindless entertainment. Had to fast forward thru parts, but it served its purpose. I was not prepared, though, for the imagery of the previews of a couple dozen Mondo Macabro releases which they showed at the end of the feature. <br>Not like scary disturbing. Just a "who the hell would watch that shit?" kind of disturbing. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=yesferatu@rigorousintuition>yesferatu</A> at: 8/22/06 10:06 pm<br></i>

[DireStrike]

Horror films didn't used to be about slicing people up, and even today they aren't always. Those were slashers. I think real world pain and terror has crept into the very idea of "scary", making it a more concrete thing these days.<br><br>I've long been a horror fan. Perhaps the most read books from my childhood library are the "scary stories" collection gathered by Alvin Schwartz. I don't remember any gore in those, and my favorite stories were one about cats, in which no violence occurs at all, and another about an idea that seems to kill people or cause them to go brain dead. The creepy pictures were cool also. For me it was always about weird ideas, fantasy, and atmosphere. With movies I can add in "adrenaline", which is proportionally offered through a lot less of a book than a movie.<br><br>My memory seems to tell me that good horror movies had no violence, or only implied it. The Blob - he could "get" you, but... that was it. "It" - there were sharp teeth. "In the Mouth of Madness" - ???? Perhaps I was just sheltered from the gory crap. Wikipedia has an article on horror films, with mentions by decade: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_film#1950s">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_film#1950s</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Cheap gore shock and "jump-out" scares always struck me as the hallmark of a crappy movie. And so we come to today, where good movies are incredibly rare.<br><br>Why? Well, I'm a gamer, and it's interesting to hear that the game market is bigger than the movie market. In that light it is easy to see how hollywood, a relatively monolithic industry, can be influenced. But I think a far bigger influence on culture and, thereby, movies, has been the internet. Desensitization has grown as culture became more "mass", if you ask me. Information has been steadily growing more abundant. People had long been overwhelmed by the time the internet came about. And when it did, it just added to the problem. <br><br>Those who want to experience things can no longer waste time with nuance. "Just show me the worst and the best you've got - I'll guess the rest." Have you ever heard of a XX movie? Of course not. There were X movies, and then somebody came up with XXX. Nobody was going to make a movie that wasn't quite as sexy. (Although the internet seems to have finished that, too - you can find absolutely any kind of sex from hard to softcore, and everything in between.)<br><br>And so we just jumped to using the worst possible things in movies. Because you can go to a website and watch a man be beheaded. Hear the - well, I don't want to trigger anybody. But my point is that you can find the absolute bottom rung of humanity online.<br><br>Silent Hill was... not quite a <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>crappy</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> movie... but it wasn't that good either. It was attempted fanservice that failed. Silent Hill the game was FAR better than the movie could have hoped to be. There wasn't that much gore in it really, except at the hospital... where it was sort of appropriate to that sphere of terror. The gore in the movie was, I think, only there because of the idea that "scary movies have gore in them." Perhaps worse was that it was impossible to sympathize with anyone being killed, except<br><br> * spoiler*<br><br><br><br><br>the law enforcement figure.<br><br><br><br><br>*end spoiler*<br><br><br><br><br>I actually laughed once or twice when the others were being killed. The gore is hardly even noticeable anymore. Any type of gore. It was a cheap and dull tool so badly abused by the industry that it doesn't even work anymore. Plus, you can find better stuff on the internet. Stuff that they can't show. Stuff that's Real. If anyone <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>wanted</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> to see every excruciating detail of... anything... they can now. Movies can't compete, try as they might.<br><br><br>Now, Drama... that I can't watch. Who wants to feel that bad? I really dislike movies where bad things happen at just the wrong time to people who really don't deserve it - tragedy, in short, which seems to be the defining characteristic of most dramatic movies. Emotional suffering, even if obstacles are overcome, is just so painful. I can see the value of some of these things as motivational - <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>if they can overcome THAT, surely I can deal with my little problems</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> - but what I don't get is junkies of this genre. Being scared isn't that bad... when you know you're safe. Seeing people dismembered isn't that bad... when you know that those people never existed. But hearing terrible things is always painful. I'd like to get by with a minimum of that. I'd rather go to bed with the light on than cry myself to sleep. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=direstrike>DireStrike</A> at: 8/22/06 10:16 pm<br></i>

[FourthBase]

Another article linked by Et that doesn't really address my points, and if anything it supports what I was saying. Et: I'm not attacking the horror genre's right to be taken seriously. I'm criticizing <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>horror</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> whether it be represented in horror movies, dramas, TV cop shows, whatever. And by "horror" I mostly mean "gore". That article is basically anti-gore. Did you not notice that?<br><br>But it's not just gore, but the whole culture of death. We talk a lot on RI about the death cult of the elite, but we're passive participants in it. We are bombarded by simulations of death every day, every night, at all hours. The Greeks liked their horrific tragedies, I know. And I'm sure the actors used a lot of goat blood to simulate the wounds. But they didn't stage those tragedies <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>every fucking day and night</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->.<br><br>As I sit at the computer typing, the TV is on some network and it's a cop show and on it there is the sound of blood-curdling screams. Is that natural, showering the American public with blood-curdling screams every night (even if the hyper-violence inspiring the screams is happening off-screen), triggering their fight-or-flight response? Doesn't a brain get subliminally fucked up or exhausted of empathy after hearing so many screams? I'm curious. For real.<br><br>If you, Et -- and anyone else who's obviously thought about this stuff more than I have -- care to discuss this with me, I would appreciate reading your thoughts. But if anyone is tempted to tell me that I'm naive, or presumptuous, or this or that...then don't fucking post in this thread. Et created it for me. It's mine. <p></p><i></i>

[DireStrike]

There's the breakdown - conflation of horror and gore. The two must be considered separately. It's terrible that "horror" has come to mean "gore" in the mainstream, because every now and then gory horror movies rake in some quick bucks. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :( --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[FourthBase]

Please define and give examples of what constitutes the horror-genre-absent-gore. Are, say, all of Hitchcock's thrillers "horror" by your standards? Psycho certainly is, but it's extremely tame in today's context. And yet it has an element of gore and on-screen murder. I want some movies that are both horrific and 100% non-gory. Both for the purposes of this discussion...and because I'd personally love to see them. <p></p><i></i>

[Et in Arcadia ego]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>There's the breakdown - conflation of horror and gore. The two must be considered separately. It's terrible that "horror" has come to mean "gore" in the mainstream,<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>*DING*</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>And that appears to be a distinction that's completely lost on some individuals. Until that is recognized and comprehended, there's not much point in further discussions.. <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>

[JerkyLeBoeuf]

Besides which, if it's gore you're after, you'd do better to peruse war films. <br><br>Hamburger Hill, Blackhawk Down and that ultimate in war porn, Saving Private Ryan, all make Texas Chainsaw Massacre look like a Teddy Bear's Picnic. <p></p><i></i>

[FourthBase]

Yeah, and...war movies are "horror" movies, too. *DING*.<br>And fans of movies like that are..."horror fans". *DING*.<br><br>Again, I'm not just going after your precious, carefully-defined genre. There's no need for you to defend it. And citing gore in other sub-genres wouldn't help defend it, anyway!<br><br>But one point, I've seen TCM and Saving Private Ryan.<br>Get the fuck out of here with that "Teddy Bear's Picnic" shit.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And that appears to be a distinction that's completely lost on some individuals. Until that is recognized and comprehended, there's not much point in further discussions..<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>Examples of horror that involves 0% gore, please. Try actually <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>describing</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> that distinction. You don't have to be a horror-movie snob with me. I'm going to be imprecise (by your standards) with my terminology. You <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>might</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> want to give me some leeway there if you have any interest in a genuine discussion. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fourthbase>FourthBase</A> at: 8/22/06 10:39 pm<br></i>

[Et in Arcadia ego]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Examples of horror that involves 0% gore, please.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I just did.<br><br>Blair Witch Project for one. Find the rest yourself. <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>

[FourthBase]

You just did? LOL. Where?<br>You mean you <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>just</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> did...there...not before.<br><br>Find the rest myself...I see. More snob BS.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Et in Arcadia ego]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Find the rest myself...I see. More snob BS.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Here's another classic. See if you can guess which film this image is taken from:<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.sickle666.com/images/stfu.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=etinarcadiaego@rigorousintuition>et in Arcadia ego</A>  <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.sickle666.com/images/Arcadia.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 8/22/06 11:12 pm<br></i>