UFO event in Norway

[Perelandra]

That's what the spiral turns into ultimately, but it was definitely there.

It freaked me out a bit, as I didn't entirely remember the context in which I had seen something about the movie.

[Nordic]

However, what blows this theory completely is the "black hole" thing at the end.

If the theory is correct, that when the spinning stopped, that whatever was squirting out of it blew all the other stuff away as it went, the fuel that we see already in the sky, would have stayed. Like a contrail, it would have been relatively "stuck" in the sky until it dispersed. But that's not what happened, it seemed instead that the "black hole" actually pushed it away.

Which means that the stuff was ALL in motion, all the time, at the same velocity, which seems impossible, i.e. the stuff that had been already spewed out for a longer time would have stopped, and perhaps even slowed .... But it didn't, apparently, it seems to have kept going at the same velocity at which it escaped the "missile".

Is that making any sense?

In other words, the "black hole" phenomonon at the end would have only worked had whatever was spinning been stationary.

So it seems to me that it was something that was spinning, but otherwise stationary.

UNLESS there was something in the middle, something unseen, something dark, that literally exploded at the very end of this thing, thus pushing ALL the "contrail" material outwards in such a dramatic way ......

Like if something blew up without any light. A big explosion, however ... like really big.

Anyone with me, or do I need more coffee?

Coffee is never a bad idea. Here's an image of a poi dancer creating what is essentially a Catherine Wheel:



You can see from this image that successive turns of the dancer's movements are sending a continous spiral ripple outward from the center. Now the particles from the "missile" aren't necessarily burning (though that's an interesting issue), the may simply be spewing out from a pressurized container. But the effect is the same - the centrifugal force impels turn after turn of the spiraling material outward from the center with great force, and with great regularity (if the speed of rotation is consistent), and the material continues to fly outward from the center even after all the material is exhausted, in a form with a sinusoidal cross section. Nothing beyond inertia is required to create the widening central hole after the particulate matter runs out.

Yes, but I think you're inadvertently reinforcing what I wrote.

That dancer isn't moving rapidly forward or backwards, or any-wards, as he/she is doing this. He/she is stationary.

That's my point is that the "black hole" at the end only makes sense if the object itself is stationary.

Now here's another thing to think about -- should we assume we're only seeing one object?

It seems to me like this whole phenomenon could be more than one object. One that made the blue, another that made the spiral.

Who knows what was there, and what/who SHOT something at it??

I still am completely mystified by this and completely unsatisfied with any of the explanations given.

Especially the glib way in which that one video sorta dismissed it like "nothing to see here, just the most spectacular unexpected missile failure in history, and we just happen to have produced a spiffy little animation explaining it all!"

[2012 Countdown]

Seems to me the Penguin posted photo shows the trail coming toward, from over the horizon. Compared to other general missile shots, it seems that this was taken toward the end/after the event. I have in my mind a scenario that the someone who took earlier photos of the display, then tried to get a better shot from whence it came. The blue swirls have now dissipated/softened, and just the haze trail remains. Toward the horizon, the winds have already distorted/malformed the trail. It is coming from the direction of the setting sun. And yes, in the other photo, the hole clearing out and exposing the 'blue' as well.


In regard to the main forms flatness- It takes up a huge perfectly circular footprint, that is almost squarely in front of us in the Rex photo. The other video and photos from the sidemost angles we are able to see reveal the shape of a very flat circle (relatively speaking), imo. To make such a shape, it would seem to me the object had to have been relatively stationary, and spun outward from its sides. The severest angle video/photos show very little depth/thickness to the spiral, in my opinion.

I simply can't think of a way it's possible to determine that the "planar" thing you're suggesting isn't an artifact of the nighttime camera usage

Ok, lets try this...if the spiral had any significant depth, would it not take on this appearace when viewed from a slight angle?



Instead the banding of the spiral seems to maintain its distances between.

[barracuda]

Nordic:

I guess what I'm saying is that nothing had to push the hole into being (that is, nothing "pushed" the particles out of the way), instead the inertia of the particles carried them away from the center.

Your questions, though, raise another: what happened to whatever was at the center? If the particulate spray came from a container, like a fuel canister, then the canister must have continued on the tragectory of the blue streak and eventually fallen to earth, or sort of orbited on its merry way, unless it was somehow burned up or consumed by the display.

Regarding the motion towards the viewer along the z-axis, I'm thinkiing that whatever fuel propelled the missile leaving behind the blue helix burned out, and the object slowed considerably without that force behind it. Then the second "stage" began leaking, which caused the spiral display. It seems to me there is no doubt that the two parts of the phenomenon were caused by two seperate, if perhaps joined, sources, like rocket stages. I don't think the spiral itself is truely "flat", but probably is a shallow cone shape which we can't really see due to our straight-on view of it.

Countdown:

If the cone of the spiral were extremely shallow, only a very oblique view would realise the perspective image in your post.

[barracuda]

Countdown, if you look at the image posted here, don't the bands on the left side of the spiral seem more crowded, or thinner, than those on the right side? (This seems easier to see in the inverted version.)

[2012 Countdown]

Countdown, if you look at the image posted here, don't the bands on the left side of the spiral seem more crowded, or thinner, than those on the right side? (This seems easier to see in the inverted version.)

Perhaps...ever so slightly they may. Nowhere near the shape of what I would think be demanded of a projectile traveling at the length/speed of the 'blue' swirly that it leaves behind though. No where near that shape at all.

But now a possible 'stage 2' of alleged rocket is brought up. That possibility and the ignition/initiation and depending orientation thereof, when begun, could cause a relative 'stop' it its forward progress and possibly produce the flattened spiral. I see that possibility as the only way actually.

[brainpanhandler]

This photo on the other hand does seem like very good prooof for the "toward theory" precisely because of what you point out here where the blue spiral is clearer when seen through the hole. The blue spiral is obscured elsewhere behind the residue of the white spiral which says to me that it is behind it. I'm in the toward camp now.

Ok, Im retracting this. Not only for the reason that just because the blue spiral is more clearly visible through the hole does not necessarily mean that the blue spiral is behind the white spiral but also because in trying to refigure a rough trajectory of a theoretical missle if it was traveling toward the observer I've run into an impasse that would take a long time to explain. I think the photographer would have to be considerably south of skjervoy.

Maybe I will call that Jorgenson. What's that number again dradin?

[brainpanhandler]

Interesting. They don't really explain their calculations but I doubt I'd understand them if they did.

We've been wrong about Tromsø. The photographer lives in Skjervøy.

Here's a picture of Skjervøy harbor, supporting this:
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/o...l/10575400.jpg

Below are my diagrams with calculation results.

http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread ... 550&page=4

There is also apparently evidence that test missles can employ a corkscrew type maneuver in order to burn off fuel and slow a missile in order to control it's range. That might explain the blue spiral.


THAAD Energy Management Steering maneuver, used to burn excess propellant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THAAD

[Nordic]

This photo on the other hand does seem like very good prooof for the "toward theory" precisely because of what you point out here where the blue spiral is clearer when seen through the hole. The blue spiral is obscured elsewhere behind the residue of the white spiral which says to me that it is behind it. I'm in the toward camp now.

Ok, Im retracting this. Not only for the reason that just because the blue spiral is more clearly visible through the hole does not necessarily mean that the blue spiral is behind the white spiral

Yeah it just means the blue is more prominent because it isn't "mixed" with the whiteness of the spiral. It's against near-black.

More contrast makes it look more clear.

[82_28]

[elfismiles]

More from folks at UFO UpDates eList...

The difference with this one is that the third stage was about 60 miles up when it went wonky. Low gravity and about .1% air density let this gaseous release really spread and disperse.
http://www.ufoupdateslist.com/2009/dec/m14-005.shtml

Which is to say what I've been saying that this thing was HUGE and WAY high up there and why I think the "depth" of the possible white spiral funnel appeared so 2d to our photographers and videographers.

Meanwhile Peter Davenport (of National UFO Reporting Center fame) says...

In an earlier post, it was reported that the spiraling object
was traveling at approximately a right angle to the observers'
line of sight from Tromso. If that is the case, I still don't
understand why the large, white spiral consists of generally
concentric circles. In support of that statement, if one looks
at a corkscrew from the side, he doesn't see concentric circles;
rather, he sees a more sinusoidal pattern, or possibly an oval.

Why, then, is the blue spiral clearly sinusoidal, but the white
circles are concentric? That doesn't make sense to me, yet.

Also, do we know for certain that the upper stages of the
"Bulava" missile carry liquid fuel? That may be the case, but it
would surprise me. Most liquid rocket fuels are dangerously
unstable, and no submariner I know would choose to have tens of
thousands of gallons of that stuff aboard. Can anyone direct me
to a website that addresses technical characteristics, including
upper stages, of the "Bulava?"

If my suspicion about the nature of the fuel is correct, any
lateral force, I conclude, probably would be the result of a
burn-through of some part of the engine's nozzle or plenum. If
the rocket has maneuvering rockets, which seems unlikely to me,
I guess it would be possible for one of them to go errant.
However, if ICBM's have maneuvering rockets, designed for use
during the ascent phase, I'm not aware of it.
http://www.ufoupdateslist.com/2009/dec/m14-009.shtml

[elfismiles]

Man, the video at this link really is the best I've seen yet. It has the most detail of the blue pigstail corkscrew:

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/trom ... /1.6902788

I downloaded that one asap.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSM-56_Bulava

Bulava missile: test-launch history
http://en.rian.ru/infographics/20091125/155597209.html

The Bulava (SS-NX-30) submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) carries up to 10 MIRV warheads and has a range of over 8,000 kilometers (5,000 miles). The three-stage ballistic missile is designed for deployment on new Borey class nuclear-powered strategic submarines.

The Russian military expects the Bulava, along with Topol-M land-based ballistic missiles, to become the core of Russia's nuclear triad.

And another gorgeous pic I'd not seen...

[barracuda]

Man, the video at this link really is the best I've seen yet. It has the most detail of the blue pigstail corkscrew:

I love the headline on that article, elfismiles.

Advarte om rakettoppskytinger!

Rakettoppskytinger? Excuse me if I understandably translate that as "rocket up in the sky thingy".

[smoking since 1879]

[brainpanhandler]